[Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order] Like a Puppy, the Jedi Is. Trained, They Must Be.

Ninja Snarl P

Bulletstorm also had lots of pushing, pulling, kicking, and blasting people into various horrible death walls and holes.

DeMoN

Other than straight up saying it's 3rd person, there's also a little blurb about developing force powers and lightsaber skills

Also this dude is the combat director

https://twitter.com/jasondeheras/status/1035376975223828480

-Loki-

That doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence - God of War 1-3 and the PSP games were very much in the style of Force Unleashed. I'm forseeing a Laser Baseball Bat again, not a Laser Sword.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the combat in those games. But when I imagine lightsaber combat, it's not that.

Papagander

I'm tentatively excited. If nothing else, this might just make me nostalgic enough that I go root around in my storage bin and bring out Jedi Power Battles again.

jdarksun

I thought the first Force Unleashed was a ton of fun, if sorta silly in places. I would like to see lightsabers that actually cut stuff though.

klemming

Has any game done proper cut through anything lightsabers? From a game-design POV, they're a nightmare to deal with.

surrealitycheck

jedi academy had a console setting that made it sort of work like that on enemies was pretty spicy r_realisticsabers 1 or something

klemming

Making them a one hit kill against enemies is one thing, but what about cutting through the wall? Oh no, all the walls have been painted in anti-light paint!

Darklyre

klemming wrote: »

Has any game done proper cut through anything lightsabers? From a game-design POV, they're a nightmare to deal with.

Afro Samurai had somewhat proper cutting mechanics. Combine that with Red Faction environmental damage and that might work.

override367

Heatwave wrote: »

Would have really liked an option to change sex, race or be an alien

How about an alien that changes their sex periodically

override367

surrealitycheck wrote: »

jedi academy had a console setting that made it sort of work like that on enemies was pretty spicy r_realisticsabers 1 or something

Ah the setting where every saber combat involves all of the combatants chopping their own dicks off by accident

A++ I play with this on 100% of the time whenever I've played that game

manwiththemachinegun

klemming wrote: »

Making them a one hit kill against enemies is one thing, but what about cutting through the wall? Oh no, all the walls have been painted in anti-light paint!

The movies have the same problem, and it's shown by sabers being able to burn through most things, but not necessarily cut through EVERYTHING.

A guard railing or door, sure.

Star Destroyer hull plate is going to take a lot of time, if at all.

klemming

The movies mostly get around that by having them not want to do that, or by clearly having it take longer than they have because people are shooting at them.

But if I've got a lightsaber in my hand and the game tells me to find a way to get this door open, I don't see why I should have to go anywhere.

manwiththemachinegun

Dragkonias

There have been plenty of games that have done force powers well and I'm sure Respawn will have a lot of fun and interesting ones.

Saber combat is what I'm wondering about. I'm hoping it is someone in-depth and not just press X or whatever.

surrealitycheck

Dragkonias wrote: »

There have been plenty of games that have done force powers well and I'm sure Respawn will have a lot of fun and interesting ones.

Saber combat is what I'm wondering about. I'm hoping it is someone in-depth and not just press X or whatever.

i think it should be at least somewhat interesting

while the guy did work on god of war broadly the structure of that combat system was in place before he got there - if he has extensive fighting game experience he will understand how important state control, cancels, defensive measures and moment to moment decision making are so that alone would make it more interesting than 99% of star wars saber combat games already (although jedi academy had a really interesting and weird spacing element)

manwiththemachinegun

The general problem is that 90% of most enemies in a SW game are ranged non-force users, and the true complexity needed to work for decent swordplay is only for the other 10% (but arguably more important).

For example, an autoblocking "posture" system would work great force Star Wars. Your "health" is whether you block properly or dodge to let it refill, and the animations should reflect that. In other words, no nerf-bat sabers. Only when you take an enemy to a critical state through combo pressure do you actually "hit" them with the blade.

Lucascraft

I find the whole "Jedi going extinct" or "Jedi are gone" or "No Jedi" to be A) an overused plot and B) the least interesting that the Star Wars universe can be.

Jedi and Sith are what set Star Wars apart. Jedi and Sith are what make Star Wars a space fantasy. Take those away and you just have a bunch of dudes with guns in space, which is what literally every other sci-fi is.

In terms of eras I enjoy stories in, it looks something like this:

Old Republic era >>>>>>> Clone Wars era > Rebellion era > Resistance era


I'm just tired of "You're the last jedi ever" stories because that story has been told like a bunch of times already. Luke. Rey. Kyle Katarn. Force Unleashed.

Give me stories where there are Jedi and Sith everywhere. Because that is what sets Star Wars apart from the other sci-fi options.

NEO|Phyte

Kyle wasn't at all in any sort of 'you're the last jedi ever' story phase, at least in the games I'm familiar with. DF1 he wasn't even a force user, DF2 I never experienced, but Outcast and Academy are set such that there's the NJO or whatever the EU called the post-RotJ jedi stuff.

Lucascraft

Jedi Knight sets Kyle Katarn as a contemporary of Luke. So he's not so much "last" as "second to last."

And the point I was making isn't to be excessively nitpicky to the canon or lore. My point was simply that stories of the Jedi being extinct, hunted, or very few in number are not interesting to me personally because I find the Jedi and Sith to be the most interesting part of Star Wars, and I find those things to be what sets Star Wars apart as a unique sci-fi franchise.

kaid

Also shown in starwars rebels there are still force sensitives jedi padawan and probably a few hidden knights out there. Space is big and although there may only be a handful of knights left there probably were a number of padawan/failed apprentices who have at least a fair control over the force.

-Loki-

klemming wrote: »

Making them a one hit kill against enemies is one thing, but what about cutting through the wall? Oh no, all the walls have been painted in anti-light paint!

This problem isn’t exclusive to lightsabers. Why can’t I blow open locked doors with my rocket launcher in other shooters? Surely the BFG could handle it to Doom.

Its a problem with game engines, hardware limitations and primarily just enforcing level design.

BRIAN BLESSED

The Jedi Knight series is still my favourite out of all the Star Wars games with the most granular lightsaber combat, I've never ever felt more in control compared to other games coming out after that

When people talk big about lightsaber combat Jedi Academy is still the gold standard I hold it up to and few games have ever come close. I'm excited because I super bet that Respawn can be the guys to recapture that magic, but pre-canned character action style combat movement ala a God of War will not be that

Polaritie

BRIAN BLESSED wrote: »

The Jedi Knight series is still my favourite out of all the Star Wars games with the most granular lightsaber combat, I've never ever felt more in control compared to other games coming out after that

When people talk big about lightsaber combat Jedi Academy is still the gold standard I hold it up to and few games have ever come close. I'm excited because I super bet that Respawn can be the guys to recapture that magic, but pre-canned character action style combat movement ala a God of War will not be that

Actual swordfighting just isn't something you see much at all to begin with, so... I dunno.

Ninja Snarl P

Honestly, the only game I've seen in ages and ages that does a pretty great job with swordfighting is Sekiro. I can't even think of another swordfighting game where it's as important to know your enemies, plus the way they work out the attack/block/parry/dodge system makes for some pretty dang convincing swordfighting.

-Loki-

The real problem with trying to go with JK style combat is it was modelled on the OT. Existing sword fighting stances with directional swings creating openings.

This game is based on a prequel timeline Jedi, so I’m guessing they want the much more flashy acrobatic fighting, hence going for someone that has done action games.

There very likely won’t be much tactical about the combat, I’m just hoping we aren’t fighting with a glowing pool noodle. Make it lethal.

Local H Jay

I'm honestly a bit sad it isn't first person, since I'd love a Titanfall style game with some saber combat and force powers. It does seem to imply there's wallrunning/parkour of some kind. I'm curious, it looks a bit like a third person Dishonored with how he uses the powers to control the area around him. I'm interested in seeing what Respawn does with a third person game.

Force Unleashed was a fun game but I'm also nostalgic for Jedi Academy. I dunno which game is my favorite, since each game brings a different aspect to the table.

Moridin889

Ninja Snarl P wrote: »

Honestly, the only game I've seen in ages and ages that does a pretty great job with swordfighting is Sekiro. I can't even think of another swordfighting game where it's as important to know your enemies, plus the way they work out the attack/block/parry/dodge system makes for some pretty dang convincing swordfighting.

For Honor is pretty good

It's a fighting game masquerading as a 3rd person action medieval combat game.

BRIAN BLESSED

-Loki- wrote: »

The real problem with trying to go with JK style combat is it was modelled on the OT. Existing sword fighting stances with directional swings creating openings.

This game is based on a prequel timeline Jedi, so I’m guessing they want the much more flashy acrobatic fighting, hence going for someone that has done action games.

There very likely won’t be much tactical about the combat, I’m just hoping we aren’t fighting with a glowing pool noodle. Make it lethal.

Well I mean, Jedi Academy specifically added a 2v1 "power duel" mode (with an accompanying map) specifically inspired by Episode I as well as staff lightsabers, so it's not like they haven't been inspired by the flash of the prequel trilogy in the past

The Zombie Penguin

surrealitycheck wrote: »

jedi academy had a console setting that made it sort of work like that on enemies was pretty spicy r_realisticsabers 1 or something

I think my favourite with that is when you killed someone, only to get minced to pieces as their light sabre flew off and hit you. It was great.

Dragkonias

I wanted to like For Honor but when it first came out it was too easy for folks to turtle and you got punished for being offensive.

I know folks said there were a lot of balance patches and its different now but never bothered to get back into it.

Maybe if a sequel comes out though.

Synthesis

surrealitycheck wrote: »

jedi academy had a console setting that made it sort of work like that on enemies was pretty spicy r_realisticsabers 1 or something

Also kung fu. Because why wasn't kung fu in the game by default?

vamen

To this day, Jedi Outcast had one of my favorite progression systems, as you slowly unlocked force powers, and those force powers slowly became more powerful and gained new aspects.

And I don't think I enjoy anything more in a game than force lifting an enemy, shocking them, and then force pushing them into the distance.

I also dug how the lightsaber was its own separate object from you. Throwing it and cutting it off midair, force pulling it back to your hand from great distances, trying to force pull it back to you with an enemy in the way so you could ignite it as it flew to try and cut them in half, etc. Good times.

Cyrenic

Dragkonias wrote: »

I wanted to like For Honor but when it first came out it was too easy for folks to turtle and you got punished for being offensive.

I know folks said there were a lot of balance patches and its different now but never bothered to get back into it.

Maybe if a sequel comes out though.

It was pretty good when I played it about a year ago. I'd love to see that exact combat system used in a single player game, Star Wars or otherwise. An expansive open world RPG with For Honor's combat? One can dream.

Xantomas

My favorite moments from a Star Wars action game are fighting the sithy guys from the Jedi Academy games. You can't just easily push them off ledges or rush them and chop them up like all the Storm Troopers, it's a totally different fight. I would not like the whole game to just be massacring legion after legion of soldiers. That's how you get "mash X to kill" combat. I hope there's lots of melee combat. I hope these Purge Troopers have some creative anti-light saber combat techniques. Fighting an electrostaff just isn't the same though.

manwiththemachinegun

The best thing about Jedi Outcast/Academy is incorporating distance and timing counter attacks with the appropriate style. With a heavy stance, you bait out a light or medium attack, sidestep or back peddle and immediately cue up a heavy or special counter attack like the light style's vertical thrust. 9/10 you'll skewer the enemy and feel like a samurai badass in the process, especially with g_realisticsabercombat 1 on. There's also a way to mod that into Jedi Academy's command line.

jothki

I'd think that the best anti-Jedi tactic would be to wait until they've buried their lightsaber in someone else's body and shoot them before they can pull it out.

You could build a combat system around that. As long as a Jedi isn't actively doing anything they can deflect an effectively unlimited amount of shots from a group of enemies, but if they try to run up to them and attack they'll just get immediately shredded.

-Loki-

manwiththemachinegun wrote: »

The best thing about Jedi Outcast/Academy is incorporating distance and timing counter attacks with the appropriate style. With a heavy stance, you bait out a light or medium attack, sidestep or back peddle and immediately cue up a heavy or special counter attack like the light style's vertical thrust. 9/10 you'll skewer the enemy and feel like a samurai badass in the process, especially with g_realisticsabercombat 1 on. There's also a way to mod that into Jedi Academy's command line.

There was also a mod called ProMod that removed all of the automatic blocking, and based it on your stance and position in a swing, plus how well you were aiming at your opponent, with a circular guide that indicated if you were safe or open.

Made lightsaber duels incredibly tactical, and was kind of like how For Honour works.

I miss Jedi Outcast.

Akilae

Lucascraft wrote: »

I find the whole "Jedi going extinct" or "Jedi are gone" or "No Jedi" to be A) an overused plot and B) the least interesting that the Star Wars universe can be.

Jedi and Sith are what set Star Wars apart. Jedi and Sith are what make Star Wars a space fantasy. Take those away and you just have a bunch of dudes with guns in space, which is what literally every other sci-fi is.

In terms of eras I enjoy stories in, it looks something like this:

Old Republic era >>>>>>> Clone Wars era > Rebellion era > Resistance era


I'm just tired of "You're the last jedi ever" stories because that story has been told like a bunch of times already. Luke. Rey. Kyle Katarn. Force Unleashed.

Give me stories where there are Jedi and Sith everywhere. Because that is what sets Star Wars apart from the other sci-fi options.

X-Wing and TIE Fighter would like to have a word with you.

shoeboxjeddy

Jedi games are fun and it's been a while since we've had a good one. But X-Wing and Shadows of the Empire were also a lot of fun. Basically, anything except reskinned FPS with campaign levels on the multiplayer maps please.