Notre Dame de Paris burns

[Expletive deleted]

Notre Dame de Paris caught fire today.

The spire has already collapsed, the fire has spread to one of the two iconic towers. The mayor just said the building might not be saved.

BBC

moniker

It won't be saved, but it will be rebuilt/ restored. It's one of the most photographed/documented buildings in the world. Though they'll never be able to truly return it to what it was. I'm glad I was able to see it again just last year.

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scherbchen

oh man. Juncker put it best I thought. Notre-Dame belongs to all of humanity (paraphrased)

Fairchild

Inspired me to re-watch Kenneth Clark's classic CIVILISATION BBC series from 1969 on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDm4Sl6CdYU&list=PLkq44i-E582zDNKD8MqnSzRzRz7D9A-fV

Thawmus

Gregg Favre is a former St. Louis Firefighter, and he has a tremendously helpful twitter thread about the fire:

https://twitter.com/GreggFavre/status/1117847726786371585

His thread has been picked up by several news outlets, including the BBC, which is where I first came across it.

Desktop Hippie

Apparently there are still crowds of people as close as they can get. Some people there are saying they're singing Ave Maria.

I'm seeing from multiple news channels that the fire brigade say the next 90 minutes are crucial. There's a risk that the great bell might fall, and if it does it'll pretty much take the entire bell tower with it, but they're doing all they can to save it.

moniker

Knuckle Dragger wrote: »

moniker wrote: »

Though they'll never be able to truly return it to what it was.

They don't have to. The structure we are all familiar with isn't the original design, either; the 19th-century restoration changed elements to make the cathedral grander. The new restoration will stay near the themes of the original design, but they will have new methods and materials that they can take advantage of.

Sure. I didn't mean to suggest it will inherently be worse or less. Just that my children won't be able to sail in Theseus' ship.

quovadis13

Hopefully this is accurate, but at least it seems it wont be a complete loss.

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1117894472002490368

Thawmus

I realize that the picture above is saddening to see, but it's also quite beautiful.

Kipling217

You know, this makes me happy that I watched Lindsay Ellis video essay on The Hunchback of Notre Dame. It focuses on both the Disney Film and the Book.

I was surprised to learn that the book was written as an attempt to save the cathedral from ruin after close to a century of neglect(and imperfect building). By bringing attention to the Cathedral via his book he shamed the government of Paris into restoring this tourist attraction.

What it means is that Notre Dame has been a ruin before and it has arisen into greatness.

Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIIWy3TZ1eI
I hope it cheers people up a little bit.

Aridhol

My wife and I went to Paris for our honeymoon in 2009 and this was one of the highlights of the trip.
We have pictures of us standing in some parts of the burnt out areas.

Heartbreaking to see.

I have read that the relics and most of the art was saved and I am glad to see the overall structure remains.

Massive kudos to all the emergency responders.

moniker

Some of the images truly are incredible. In the worst way.

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Desktop Hippie

Knuckle Dragger wrote: »

What it means is that Notre Dame has been a ruin before and it has arisen into greatness.

This is what I was trying to get at. This was a tragedy, but it's not the same kind of devastating loss as Palmyra; if they've saved the main structure, this becomes a sad, but important chapter in Notre Dame's long history.

The Museu Nacional in Brazil broke my heart. Not only was the historic building destroyed, but they lost just about everything inside it. Priceless historic, archeological and paleological samples destroyed, many of them the last of their kind.

I was terrified this was going to be a repeat. I'm so glad it's not.

quovadis13

Some photos from inside.

https://twitter.com/euronews/status/1117919759511826432?s=21

It seems like the fire was contained to the roof and limited to the inside. So hopefully it is somewhat “repairable”. It definitely feels like it could have been a lot worse based on the early video today

jothki

Desktop Hippie wrote: »

Knuckle Dragger wrote: »

What it means is that Notre Dame has been a ruin before and it has arisen into greatness.

This is what I was trying to get at. This was a tragedy, but it's not the same kind of devastating loss as Palmyra; if they've saved the main structure, this becomes a sad, but important chapter in Notre Dame's long history.

The Museu Nacional in Brazil broke my heart. Not only was the historic building destroyed, but they lost just about everything inside it. Priceless historic, archeological and paleological samples destroyed, many of them the last of their kind.

I was terrified this was going to be a repeat. I'm so glad it's not.

That is a general flaw of museums. The more important stuff that you cram in one building, the more likely that you are to lose all of it at once.

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ahava

just heard on my news down here, apparently the North Rose window has survived.

So that's something special.

autono-wally, erotibot300

moniker wrote: »

It won't be saved, but it will be rebuilt/ restored. It's one of the most photographed/documented buildings in the world. Though they'll never be able to truly return it to what it was. I'm glad I was able to see it again just last year.

There are apparently very accurate 3D scans of all the interior from 4 years ago. The person responsible for them has died, but maybe his legacy can now help rebuild it

Edit: It was 4 years ago, not two, and here's a link

https://twitter.com/grouchybagels/status/1117852841530368000

(History PhD student @Rutgers studying 19th/20thC Britain: empire, gender, disability, and transimperial Ottoman connections. Former Research Director @NARAL.)

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/06/150622-andrew-tallon-notre-dame-cathedral-laser-scan-art-history-medieval-gothic/

Matthew

This was posted over on Kiwi Farms.

Good work man.

Phoenix-D

I'd be, ah, skeptical sourcing anything from there.

The Tweet does exist, but I have no idea the validity of the twitter account.

ahava

isn't Kiwi Farms the website that has told NZ investigators into the Chch mosque shooting to get lost, but in more colourful terms?

knitdan

They’re a hive of scum and villainy, yes.

Drez

Obviously, France needs to build the world’s largest 3D printer so they can rebuild their largest, centuries-old, historical landmarks ad hoc.

Ninja Snarl P

I was picking up a rental car today when I heard about this.

The way I heard about it was a mouthbreather behind the desk saying basically "did you hear about Notre Dame catching fire?" and then following it up with "go socialism, right?"

I couldn't even think of something to say, I was too bewildered by what the fuck this has to do with socialism other than somebody taking a one hell of a disconnected dig at something he reeeeeealllly doesn't know anything about.

tynic

"haha France"

wandering

Ninja Snarl P wrote: »

I was picking up a rental car today when I heard about this.

The way I heard about it was a mouthbreather behind the desk saying basically "did you hear about Notre Dame catching fire?" and then following it up with "go socialism, right?"

I couldn't even think of something to say, I was too bewildered by what the fuck this has to do with socialism other than somebody taking a one hell of a disconnected dig at something he reeeeeealllly doesn't know anything about.

I'm not gonna lie I was kinda hoping it could be linked to global warming in some way

Psychotic One

I can't help but feel what a loss of history is this. Hopefully they are able to restore it even 90% to its original design. Such a shame to lose such a iconic piece of art/history.
Curious what started the blaze.

Desktop Hippie

https://twitter.com/ElianPeltier/status/1118029763279454208

From a New York Times reporter. She looks good! Remarkably better than I’d dared hope.

*edit* And the associated press are reporting that the blaze is FINALLY out. Yay!

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1118057844325199872

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Fencingsax

MorganV wrote: »

wandering wrote: »

Ninja Snarl P wrote: »

I was picking up a rental car today when I heard about this.

The way I heard about it was a mouthbreather behind the desk saying basically "did you hear about Notre Dame catching fire?" and then following it up with "go socialism, right?"

I couldn't even think of something to say, I was too bewildered by what the fuck this has to do with socialism other than somebody taking a one hell of a disconnected dig at something he reeeeeealllly doesn't know anything about.

I'm not gonna lie I was kinda hoping it could be linked to global warming in some way

I was expecting the first "arguments for cause" to be because of society's increased acceptance of LGBT.

I mean, if homosexuality can cause hurricanes (thank you for your insight, Pat!), how hard would it be for it to start a fire?

No, that's when you shoot yourself inside Notre Dame.

dispatch.o

If a church burns down that is awful. I'm not sure how I feel about dedicating a bunch of public funds to rebuilding it right now though. I'm sure it will not be seen critically because religion, but it probably should be considered of very low priority. Especially since only the Catholic church is allowed to use the facility.

Bogart

It's hardly just "because religion". It's a massive tourist attraction, a site of huge cultural and historical interest and a monument of French civic pride.

I also don't know what definition of "use" you mean when you say only Catholics can use the facility. It's a Catholic church. Do you want them to hire it out for parties?

While the building itself is owned by the state, the Catholic Church is the designated beneficiary, having the exclusive right to use it for religious purposes in perpetuity. The archdiocese is responsible for paying the employees, for security, heating and cleaning, and for ensuring that the cathedral is open free to visitors. The archdiocese does not receive subsidies from the French state.

honovere

dispatch.o wrote: »

If a church burns down that is awful. I'm not sure how I feel about dedicating a bunch of public funds to rebuilding it right now though. I'm sure it will not be seen critically because religion, but it probably should be considered of very low priority. Especially since only the Catholic church is allowed to use the facility.

It is not going to rebuild becase "religion" though, I think, but because it's a national landmark, monument, piece of history, and tourist attraction.

Veevee

This fire may end up being a good thing in the long run. It is incredibly sad for any of the lost art, stained glass, or anything else that is irreplaceable if for no other reason than its age like the forest in the ceiling. The cathedral had a lot of needed repairs though, and it could not get funding. Very few people had an interest in saving it.

Now it should be impossible to not get the money needed to repair it.

moniker

Notre Dame is the most visited site in Paris, and I believe Europe as a whole. It is more than just a church.

Casual

I'm glad the rose window survived at least, that's the really big deal.

Veevee

I am non-religious, my wife is an ex catholic atheist.

We both teared up watching the cathedral burn.

Notre Dame is so much more than a church. It is a work of art unto itself.

TryCatcher

Notre Dame is also a world heritage site, an invaluable piece of mankind's history. Calling it "just a church" is ignorant, to say the least.

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