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[PlayStation 5] Launching Holiday 2020

245

Posts

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited April 18
    Consumer SSD's made with modern NAND techniques that have a decent controller and some over provisioning should outlast the console relatively easily unless someone is just torture writing to the drive.

    And driver failure means so much less today than it ever has. Everything is cloud synced and downloadable. You stick a new drive in it and it reconstitutes from the ether.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Plus my layman's understanding is that SSDs fail safely by just gradually losing capacity over time. Though I don't know what happens to the data that was already on there.

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Consumer SSD's made with modern NAND techniques that have a decent controller and some over provisioning should outlast the console relatively easily unless someone is just torture writing to the drive.

    And driver failure means so much less today than it ever has. Everything is cloud synced and downloadable. You stick a new drive in it and it reconstitutes from the ether.

    Assuming, y'know, you're paying for PlayStation Plus. If not you're screwed.

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited April 19
    klemming wrote: »
    I can't believe they'll go for a SSD as the main form of storage, getting up to the sizes they'd need would cost way too much.
    I'd expect them to have a regular drive for storage, and the SSD just for running the OS and active games, kind of like how the 360 originally used the HDD.

    Some rumors around a Sony Switch competitor cited a technology, possibly an AI, that allowed the "streaming" of game levels to keep only a partial install of the game at any one time. So you're playing level 3, maybe the game has that and level 4 on local storage. Then its downloading level 5 in the background and deleting level 2.

    The idea here was to save on limited SD card space in a portable, but maybe its also applicable to supporting limited SSD size, especially for 4k textures. They could even be loading this from a UHD blu-ray, making physical media more relevant again.

    rahkeesh2000 on
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Oops you put fast travel in the game and now it has to load twice, once to ssd and once to ram every time? I can’t see that working.

    Super linear game experiences are rare but also generally don’t have nearly as much loading aside from first boot because the devs know what’s next and already do this.

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  • DonnictonDonnicton Hey it's me, your old pal Movie Sonic - let me in. LEMME IN. Registered User regular
    Reputably manufactured SSDs are typically perfectly capable of managing themselves for very long periods even with heavy use. My PC's current SSD(Samsung 850 EVO) currently has 25,522 run hours and close to 24.5TB of writes to it over ~4 years and it still reports as fine. Even if Sony cheaps out with off-brand SSDs I can't imagine many consoles seeing use rates remotely similar, much less to require replacement before the next PS generation at least.

    Hahnsoo1GnomeTankButters
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    Plus my layman's understanding is that SSDs fail safely by just gradually losing capacity over time. Though I don't know what happens to the data that was already on there.

    A properly function SSD will have moved relevant data to NAND that wasn't failing. That's why over provisioning is important, and why people tell you to keep as much free space on your SSD as possible, so the controller has places to move data and empty space to use for write-leveling.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Oops you put fast travel in the game and now it has to load twice, once to ssd and once to ram every time? I can’t see that working.

    Super linear game experiences are rare but also generally don’t have nearly as much loading aside from first boot because the devs know what’s next and already do this.

    They've demo'd the fast travel in Spider-Man, so whatever they're doing can handle that.
    The streaming example could work if it's for entire games rather than streaming parts of one game. Yes, you'd need to mask the initial load, but games put unskippable splash screens to hide the initial load already.

    I have no problem believing that Sony engineers are smarter than me when it comes to technical solutions to these problems, but I also have difficulty believing that they would be told that a massive SSD for mass console production would be okay compared to a drive a fraction of the size along with a more affordable one for mass storage. Even if they can get much better deals than consumers can, the price difference when you're making millions of them is going to be enormous.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Honestly, it needs to have a *really* good game lineup for me to actually upgrade off my PS4. Which barely got used as-is for anything other than Persona 5.

    The hardware upgrades aren't really upgrades for me if there's nothing I want to play on it.

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  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    PlayStations always end up being secondary consoles for me, basically just for a handful of exclusives; which is absolutely fine but I know I can wait through some price drops or maybe even further. I always end up with one eventually, though.

    Last console cycle was weird because neither the Xbox One nor the PS4 grabbed me at all to begin with, which was part of how I ended up getting back into PC games as a primary. The consoles both eventually came good in subsequent years but I only got a PS4 (a second hand Pro) last year. I'm not going to be in a hurry.

    Although HZD2 will be awfully tempting. Not gonna deny that.

    Still curious to see news and how the machine turns out, though.

    Fencingsax
  • DonnictonDonnicton Hey it's me, your old pal Movie Sonic - let me in. LEMME IN. Registered User regular
    Ever since literally all of the JRPG devs decided that portable consoles were the de facto way to experience RPGs, I haven't seriously used my PS4 for anything since God of War. I may eventually one day get a PS5 because technology, but there would have to be a real RPG renaissance for me to get it sooner rather than later.

  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Ever since literally all of the JRPG devs decided that portable consoles were the de facto way to experience RPGs, I haven't seriously used my PS4 for anything since God of War. I may eventually one day get a PS5 because technology, but there would have to be a real RPG renaissance for me to get it sooner rather than later.

    That's mostly on Japan than anything else. We can't really blame that on anything other than Japan's populace utterly latching onto the mobile market, and the Japanese gaming market responding. It's also just Japan. CDPR, Ubisoft, and plenty of other Western publishers have RPGs on home consoles. We're also running into publishers like BandaiNamco putting more JRPGs on PS4 and on PC lately, and Square's taken an approach to splitting their market between mobile and consoles.

    I can't blame Japanese publishers. Nowadays when you see a JRPG on a console, they're trying just as hard to sell the game to the West. Because a JRPG on a modern console just won't sell that well on their shores anymore.

    wbee62u815wj.png
  • Descendant XDescendant X Hank Facepunch Registered User regular
    Is there supposed to be any news on the PS5 at E3?

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Sony isn't doing an E3 presentation at all as far as I know. They might keep copying Nintendo and do a 'Direct' style video of announcements around the same time, but I really doubt anything on PS5 being released yet.

    vH0O2se.gif
    Shadowfire
  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    edited May 27
    Sony aren't going to E3 this year so nope. tbh I would expect that the first concrete info will be the launch press conference (probably spring next year) or the PSX thing if there is one this year

    Snicketysnick on
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  • metaghostmetaghost Registered User regular
    Based on Twitter, we're getting a Death Stranding trailer/presentation on Wednesday and various other content of a similar sort in the week/s following.

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  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Fewer and quicker load times are literally all I care about for the next gen. Give me Skyrim/Witcher 3/Horizon Zero Dawn with single digit load, save, and fast travel times. I don't even care if they look any better. I am scared to think about how much of my free time has been spent staring at a screen waiting to play the game.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    furlion wrote: »
    Fewer and quicker load times are literally all I care about for the next gen. Give me Skyrim/Witcher 3/Horizon Zero Dawn with single digit load, save, and fast travel times. I don't even care if they look any better. I am scared to think about how much of my free time has been spent staring at a screen waiting to play the game.

    I finally picked up Witcher 3, and yes this. I've no interest in getting a Pro for higher framrates or slightly more glistening entrails, but if it promised to cut the load times I'd buy one today.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • FawstFawst The road to awe.Registered User regular
    I may finally play Witcher 3 if it gets the benefit of those load times demo’d for Spider-Man. But I also don’t for a moment think that it’s as simple as “PS4 : PS5 :: Scooter : Ducati Superbike.” There will likely have to be some tinkering for PS4 games to not fundamentally break somehow. Maybe. Who knows?

  • Descendant XDescendant X Hank Facepunch Registered User regular
    ...just how bad are the load times for Witcher 3?

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  • FawstFawst The road to awe.Registered User regular
    They’re not horrible, but they aren’t great. It’s only an issue when you get further into the game and want to fast travel between major areas, then it can take a while. But near-instant loads in general would make it a far smoother experience.

    Zilla360
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    The Witcher 3 on PC with an SSD is a transcendent experience compared to console.

    BlackDragon480Zilla360
  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    edited May 27
    Why not shove an SSD into a PS4 or attach one externally to an Xbox One (or mod one inside if you're brave)? It might not get the times to Spider-Man demo levels but it'll most likely do what you guys are talking about without requiring a whole new console.

    Jazz on
    Descendant X
  • Descendant XDescendant X Hank Facepunch Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    I’ve got an SSD in my Pro and I don’t think I’ve come across any horrible loading times in quite a while.

    Shit works, my dudes.

    Descendant X on
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  • DonnictonDonnicton Hey it's me, your old pal Movie Sonic - let me in. LEMME IN. Registered User regular
    An SSD in a PS4/XBox is great but it's still no M.2 SSD. I'd love to have a console with an M.2 interface but it's definitely not happening for at least two generations.

  • metaghostmetaghost Registered User regular
    This is a pretty interesting post on resetera examining a Sony patent for SSD application and uh... internal configuration for maximal efficiency? While I could only grok it in the most superficial sense, conversations within seem to assert that what is described conveys a system that would enable what was demonstrated in the Spiderman demo, i.e. backwards compatibility with near instant load times.

    Bandcamp (I make weird rap music) / PSN: Mugen_Kikaider
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Why not shove an SSD into a PS4 or attach one externally to an Xbox One (or mod one inside if you're brave)? It might not get the times to Spider-Man demo levels but it'll most likely do what you guys are talking about without requiring a whole new console.

    On the PS4 at least, you don't get a benefit having an SSD installed. The load times are barely better especially considering the cost. The hardware just isn't built to take advantage of the calls needed in SSDs.

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    klemming
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »
    Why not shove an SSD into a PS4 or attach one externally to an Xbox One (or mod one inside if you're brave)? It might not get the times to Spider-Man demo levels but it'll most likely do what you guys are talking about without requiring a whole new console.

    On the PS4 at least, you don't get a benefit having an SSD installed. The load times are barely better especially considering the cost. The hardware just isn't built to take advantage of the calls needed in SSDs.
    External SSD is a bit faster for PS4, but the PS4 Pro definitely takes advantage of an SSD. Depends on the game, but it loads much faster on the Pro.

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  • ZavianZavian Senātus Populusque Rōmānus Registered User regular
    I'm speculating that one of the features will be enabling ray tracing in some backwards compatible games, maybe similar to Boost mode on PS4 Pro. Digital Foundry has been doing videos of enabling ray tracing on older 90s games and it can really be amazing. I have so many PSOne, PS2, PS3, PS4, PSP and Vita games (well, Persona 4 Golden) on my same PSN account for so long that having a single system that can play all of them would to me be the best system yet

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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Ray Tracing is super hard on the system though. Like the 2080Ti needing to run games at medium on 4k to hit 60fps with RTX on. I’m sure they could optimise it better on a console with fixed hardware but 4K 60fps seems to be a big selling point and I don’t see it getting there.

    It’s a great tech that arrived too early.

  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »
    Why not shove an SSD into a PS4 or attach one externally to an Xbox One (or mod one inside if you're brave)? It might not get the times to Spider-Man demo levels but it'll most likely do what you guys are talking about without requiring a whole new console.

    On the PS4 at least, you don't get a benefit having an SSD installed. The load times are barely better especially considering the cost. The hardware just isn't built to take advantage of the calls needed in SSDs.
    External SSD is a bit faster for PS4, but the PS4 Pro definitely takes advantage of an SSD. Depends on the game, but it loads much faster on the Pro.

    I seem to recall something about the Pro having a faster interface. SATA 3 vs the standard PS4's SATA 2 or somesuch, I forget.

  • StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Ray Tracing is super hard on the system though. Like the 2080Ti needing to run games at medium on 4k to hit 60fps with RTX on. I’m sure they could optimise it better on a console with fixed hardware but 4K 60fps seems to be a big selling point and I don’t see it getting there.

    It’s a great tech that arrived too early.
    I'm interested to how ray tracing affects the PSVR experience. I mean, sure, it will still be resolution limited due to the screen(s), and, honestly, the frame rate and overall smoothness is far, Far, FAR more important than pure pixel/triangle count. But if they can leverage the ray tracing hardware to improve performance in a 3D space (which it should) then that should, at least in theory, provide a boost to VR stability and performance (even if it doesn't increase the overall resolution and clarity).

  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »
    Why not shove an SSD into a PS4 or attach one externally to an Xbox One (or mod one inside if you're brave)? It might not get the times to Spider-Man demo levels but it'll most likely do what you guys are talking about without requiring a whole new console.

    On the PS4 at least, you don't get a benefit having an SSD installed. The load times are barely better especially considering the cost. The hardware just isn't built to take advantage of the calls needed in SSDs.
    External SSD is a bit faster for PS4, but the PS4 Pro definitely takes advantage of an SSD. Depends on the game, but it loads much faster on the Pro.

    I seem to recall something about the Pro having a faster interface. SATA 3 vs the standard PS4's SATA 2 or somesuch, I forget.

    It does, yes. The SATA 2 interface on the OG model won't give any real speed boost with an SSD. That said, while the Pro will get some benefit, it's questionable whether it's worth the cost because the system still doesn't support the multithreading needed for true SSD performance. Your best bang for the buck is really a hybrid SSHD drive.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    edited May 28
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »
    Why not shove an SSD into a PS4 or attach one externally to an Xbox One (or mod one inside if you're brave)? It might not get the times to Spider-Man demo levels but it'll most likely do what you guys are talking about without requiring a whole new console.

    On the PS4 at least, you don't get a benefit having an SSD installed. The load times are barely better especially considering the cost. The hardware just isn't built to take advantage of the calls needed in SSDs.
    External SSD is a bit faster for PS4, but the PS4 Pro definitely takes advantage of an SSD. Depends on the game, but it loads much faster on the Pro.

    I seem to recall something about the Pro having a faster interface. SATA 3 vs the standard PS4's SATA 2 or somesuch, I forget.

    It does, yes. The SATA 2 interface on the OG model won't give any real speed boost with an SSD. That said, while the Pro will get some benefit, it's questionable whether it's worth the cost because the system still doesn't support the multithreading needed for true SSD performance. Your best bang for the buck is really a hybrid SSHD drive.

    I have an SSHD in my laptop, a 2TB FireCuda as the D drive; can confirm the bang for the buck ratio is very good.

    Jazz on
  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Navi shouldn't have any "ray tracing hardware" like the RTX series. Devs will still be able to pull off some raytracing tricks, but you can't set your expectations anywhere near what the dedicated RTX hardware is currently doing.

  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    Things seems to be heating up as the current rumors are the PS4 is winding down with:

    Death Stranding - Nov. 8th (to be confirmed today)
    Last of Us 2 - Feb 2020 (per Jason Schrier on twitter)
    Ghosts of Tushima - the final "big" PS4 game

    PS5 Fall 2020

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  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    That really throws a wet blanket on my plans to pick up a PS4 Pro this summer. Guess I'll stick to the base PS4.

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  • Descendant XDescendant X Hank Facepunch Registered User regular
    Nice. Perhaps I’ll start putting money aside now with Fall 2020 in mind.

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    edited May 29
    If the PS5 is truely PS4 backwards compatible, it's probably a day one buy for me depending on the launch titles. The load times demo they showed off was pretty impressive.

    KoopahTroopah on
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    So long as it carries digital purchases across, same here.

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