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  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Also in the same vein with all the “service” animals now on flights, how long before airlines start offering pet free flights

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    I don't understand how reclining the seat adds any comfort to anyone, I can barely even notice the difference in tilt. However, on the receiving end, holy shit that is painful, because i am Not Short. If I don't have the aisle seat (and thus dangle my legs in the aisle), on many airlines my knees will be digging into the seat back even in the fully upright position.

    It depends on the plane and flight. Not all planes setups are as cramped as others in Coach and on longer flights like coast to coast in the US or international flights, even a small difference can make a difference especially if it's sleepy time on the latter. Not as much as a difference as not having someone behind you in physical pain, but a difference.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Also in the same vein with all the “service” animals now on flights, how long before airlines start offering pet free flights

    I'm not sure I've ever actually seen an animal in a flight.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Also in the same vein with all the “service” animals now on flights, how long before airlines start offering pet free flights

    Legally they can't.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Also in the same vein with all the “service” animals now on flights, how long before airlines start offering pet free flights

    However long it takes to completely bind and gag their legal department. They would basically be requesting to get sued for ADA non-compliance if it included service animals. If it doesn't, then what's the point?

  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Also in the same vein with all the “service” animals now on flights, how long before airlines start offering pet free flights

    However long it takes to completely bind and gag their legal department. They would basically be requesting to get sued for ADA non-compliance if it included service animals. If it doesn't, then what's the point?

    Some have started restricting therapy/emotional support animals which are a different, er, animal legally speaking and not covered by the ADA or similar acts. There are some psychological service animals that actually are trained to do a task like sense an impending anxiety attack or provide reminders to take medication but those are classed as service animals.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • marajimaraji Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Also in the same vein with all the “service” animals now on flights, how long before airlines start offering pet free flights

    I'm not sure I've ever actually seen an animal in a flight.

    I have several times, and anecdotally it’s more common the last few years. Never seen it cause a problem, but that might just be because the animals in question (all dogs) were well behaved.

    Though I’m starting to get the feeling I’m just oblivious and everyone else is a seething ball of barely contained rage.

    Also, I’ve got maybe 2” of clearance between my knees and the seat back if I don’t have my legs angled. I’m 5’8” so I can see how someone taller but not “tall” could be up against the seat. I’m also part of the problem as I often pay for more legroom on longer flights... (it’s working guys! Make the rows tighter and see if we get more upgrades!)

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Also in the same vein with all the “service” animals now on flights, how long before airlines start offering pet free flights

    Legally they can't.

    Strikes me as a conundrum since one could argue that severe pet allergies (like really sneeze your brains about and need an inhaler to not die) are also a disability (or at least a medical condition) similar to the various issues that require a service animal.

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    maraji wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Also in the same vein with all the “service” animals now on flights, how long before airlines start offering pet free flights

    I'm not sure I've ever actually seen an animal in a flight.

    I have several times, and anecdotally it’s more common the last few years. Never seen it cause a problem, but that might just be because the animals in question (all dogs) were well behaved.

    Though I’m starting to get the feeling I’m just oblivious and everyone else is a seething ball of barely contained rage.

    Also, I’ve got maybe 2” of clearance between my knees and the seat back if I don’t have my legs angled. I’m 5’8” so I can see how someone taller but not “tall” could be up against the seat. I’m also part of the problem as I often pay for more legroom on longer flights... (it’s working guys! Make the rows tighter and see if we get more upgrades!)

    Service animals are required to be under the control of a handler outside of cases where they perform a task for a human while off the leash. This includes not barking their heads off unless something weird is going on. The issues have been more with emotional support animals which have no such requirements and no such legal protection or people buying fake papers declaring their untrained pet as a service animal and letting them be unruly.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Someone does something that annoys me or causes me discomfort, i am not going to say anything about it.
    Because i am fucking terrified of talking to people face to face.
    Also, in lot of cultures, people are conditioned to not raise a fuss.
    Never been to a plane, probably never will be (or in a buss with reclining seats), so can't say anything on that front, but any argument that starts with "well they can just say something" is not as good as we might hope.

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Also in the same vein with all the “service” animals now on flights, how long before airlines start offering pet free flights

    Legally they can't.

    Strikes me as a conundrum since one could argue that severe pet allergies (like really sneeze your brains about and need an inhaler to not die) are also a disability (or at least a medical condition) similar to the various issues that require a service animal.

    In such a case I imagine most air lines would try to arrange to seat such a person away from the dog once it was brought to the staff's attention. They're still the ones responsible for cleaning off dander from the plane too.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • FryFry Registered User regular
    edited February 13
    If you are literally injured by the person in front of you reclining their seat, you should probably be seeking extra accommodation from the airlines like obese people have.

    Maybe you could be moved to a emergency exit row that is slightly larger, or another one of the aisles that is right behind business class that is also slightly roomier, or perhaps pay to upgrade your fare.

    For armrests I have always had the opinion that the aisle seat should have both of theirs, and other seats get the armrest away from the aisle. But that mostly has to do with the fact that utilizing the aisle armrest is going to leave you with a bruise from the drink carts.

    Exit row seats and bulkhead seats cost more (on most airlines I've been on lately). I don't think it should be legal to price discriminate against tall people.

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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Also in the same vein with all the “service” animals now on flights, how long before airlines start offering pet free flights

    Legally they can't.

    Strikes me as a conundrum since one could argue that severe pet allergies (like really sneeze your brains about and need an inhaler to not die) are also a disability (or at least a medical condition) similar to the various issues that require a service animal.

    If they're that bad off they would have the same reaction just from the animal owners being present. The fur and dander gets all over you when you have pets. I've been to clients homes and had them immediately start sneezing because I have pets at home.

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  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Also in the same vein with all the “service” animals now on flights, how long before airlines start offering pet free flights

    I'm not sure I've ever actually seen an animal in a flight.

    Never seen a bird?

    :biggrin:

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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    If you are literally injured by the person in front of you reclining their seat, you should probably be seeking extra accommodation from the airlines like obese people have.

    Maybe you could be moved to a emergency exit row that is slightly larger, or another one of the aisles that is right behind business class that is also slightly roomier, or perhaps pay to upgrade your fare.

    For armrests I have always had the opinion that the aisle seat should have both of theirs, and other seats get the armrest away from the aisle. But that mostly has to do with the fact that utilizing the aisle armrest is going to leave you with a bruise from the drink carts.

    Or maybe the airlines should be regulated into providing enough space for everyone's literal, rigid bones to occupy without injury.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    The only time it's really great to be a short, small woman is airlines. I always have plenty of space! Sorry men.

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    As someone who is 6’3”, I don’t need to do anything to have someone pick a fight with my knees. I strive to generally be courteous about the whole thing, and usually prefer to remain upright myself, but especially for long flights, I just hope we can all remain decent and civilized about these things.

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  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    I'm 6' 1" and fly at least four times a year, and I've never felt that someone reclining in front of me has been a problem. The worst it's done is made the tablet screen a bit difficult to view. If you're having so much space problems, you should talk to your employer about upgrading your seats to one with a bit more leg room. Also check your travel policy, as it may already be a part of the policy.

    I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that when sitting in an airplane seat that reclines, you should be able to recline it. And if someone behind me asked me not to do it, I wouldn't.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    I'm 6' 1" and fly at least four times a year, and I've never felt that someone reclining in front of me has been a problem. The worst it's done is made the tablet screen a bit difficult to view. If you're having so much space problems, you should talk to your employer about upgrading your seats to one with a bit more leg room. Also check your travel policy, as it may already be a part of the policy.

    I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that when sitting in an airplane seat that reclines, you should be able to recline it. And if someone behind me asked me not to do it, I wouldn't.

    Yeah I feel like people in this thread are being way too theoretically principled on the issue when in real life, most of us would just talk it out if it was a real issue. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect to be able to recline your seat, because you paid for your seat and it reclines. I also think it's perfectly reasonable to ask the person in front of you not to do so, particularly if the seat is physically pushing into them when it reclines. (And all the other cases we haven't discussed - such as when I need to recline my seat because my back literally can't take the standard position for more than 15 minutes without spazzing out on me.)

    Again, the main issue here is that we get so little space in these seats to begin with that a 3-inch recline becomes the difference between a comfortable flight and a painful one.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited February 14
    I'm six feet, fly somewhere in the realm of 150-300 flights a year, and never felt compelled to make an issue over somebody leaning their chair back, no matter how many times I've been in coach or had a chair hit my knees. I've also never witnessed anyone losing their shit over somebody reclining their chair, because the vast vast vast majority of people just don't give a shit or are courteous enough to recognize everyone is in a shared space and some adjustments need to be made.

    Fine, there are outliers where it's a real issue, but I guarantee you're in the extreme minority based on a sample size of several hundred flights over the last few years, throughout the continental US. If it's that much an issue, pay for the premium seats with extra legroom or don't fly. Reclining seats aren't going anywhere for a long time, not for a teeny sliver of the population for whom the seats are a real problem.

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  • NitsuaNitsua Gloucester, VARegistered User regular
    Just to throw my hat into the ring, I’m 6’4” and nearly all legs and when someone reclines back it does indeed crush my legs. My knees to be precise. However, the person ahead of me does not know this and I would let them know that I injured my knees and legs in the military and what they are doing is hurting me. If they wouldn’t listen, I’d try to get a flight attendant to help move me or them to another spot, if possible. I haven’t flown in over 20 years, so it is more than likely worse now. But those seats are damn near uncomfortable as is and really shouldn’t recline at all with so little space available.

  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    edited February 14
    Are you guys mainly talking about domestic flights? Because I've never noticed seats being as cramped as you're describing but I'm only really used to long haul.

    The domestic flights I have done generally don't have reclining seats though.

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 14
    US domestic flights are some of the most uncomfortable I've ever taken.
    Australian ones never seem as bad.

    Edit: though the least comfortable plane I've ever been on was an Etihad flight where they'd done a refit to fit two extra seats across the plane in economy, and I barely fit between the armrests. And I'm not the tiniest person but even at its worst my arse is a solid medium. Truly awful.

    Double edit: meanwhile on the flight I am on right this minute I managed to snag the row just behind business class. Check out this fucking legroom!

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  • FANTOMASFANTOMAS Flan ArgentavisRegistered User regular
    Being short and skinny, and hardly ever taking planes, this has never been a problem for me, and will most likely never be, BUT I would still bitch about reclining, on principle. I might complain pre-emptively, just to let people know beforehand what my stance is. What is that? No need to call the air Marshall, Ill walk myself out.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    So, the woman involved is wanting to press charges against the guy, and wants the flight attendant fired.

    She might want to read how people are viewing her at the moment.

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Are you guys mainly talking about domestic flights? Because I've never noticed seats being as cramped as you're describing but I'm only really used to long haul.

    The domestic flights I have done generally don't have reclining seats though.

    Pretty sure it's a domestic flight thing. International flights tend to be pricier so likely not under as much pressure to keep ticket costs from rising too much and would get a lot more complaints about being too cramped if people needed to sleep.
    So, the woman involved is wanting to press charges against the guy, and wants the flight attendant fired.

    She might want to read how people are viewing her at the moment.

    This is one of those issues where many people with strong opinions seem to overestimate how universal their stance is. And many of those seem to get indignant on discovering others disagree with them.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    So, the woman involved is wanting to press charges against the guy, and wants the flight attendant fired.

    She might want to read how people are viewing her at the moment.

    I mean, in this particular case, I'm on her side. That guy clearly want too passive to speak up or anything.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Oh yeah, that guy was being an extreme asshole, doubly so for the fact that they look like they're in first class or something. He had plenty of space and just decided he's going to keep hitting the lady's chair to teach her a lesson or some shit.

    Personally, I wouldn't mind if the guy ended up on a no-fly list at least temporarily, because he obviously is not capable of behaving in a civil way when flying and nobody else should have to put up with that. Also don't know how the flight attendant would think it justifiable to reward the guy for hitting the lady's seat, then reprimand the woman for it as well. Don't see how she could press charges, though, and I doubt that will be enough to get the attendant fired (which is probably a good thing).

    Even though there might be more than that little chunk of video to explain the situation, it's still completely unjustifiable that the guy decided to be a child and just start hitting her seat endlessly while muttering at her.

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  • DibbitDibbit Registered User regular
    Oh yeah, that guy was being an extreme asshole, doubly so for the fact that they look like they're in first class or something. He had plenty of space and just decided he's going to keep hitting the lady's chair to teach her a lesson or some shit.

    Personally, I wouldn't mind if the guy ended up on a no-fly list at least temporarily, because he obviously is not capable of behaving in a civil way when flying and nobody else should have to put up with that. Also don't know how the flight attendant would think it justifiable to reward the guy for hitting the lady's seat, then reprimand the woman for it as well. Don't see how she could press charges, though, and I doubt that will be enough to get the attendant fired (which is probably a good thing).

    Even though there might be more than that little chunk of video to explain the situation, it's still completely unjustifiable that the guy decided to be a child and just start hitting her seat endlessly while muttering at her.

    No-fly lists are a permanent ban from flying meant to keep known terrorists from boarding any commercial airliner, and it's meant as a last line of defense against hijacking and terrorist attacks. There is no such thing as a 2 week no-fly-timeout or something.

    Once you're on, you and all your namesakes will be barred from international travel forever, there are no appeals, and it does not expire. It is a drastic, draconian method of questionable usefulness that causes quite a lot of harm, as it takes the shotgun approach: Better to hit far and wide, and hope you get your target with it.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    So, the woman involved is wanting to press charges against the guy, and wants the flight attendant fired.

    She might want to read how people are viewing her at the moment.

    Next time someone puts their leg into my space on a flight I'm going to punch them repeatedly. Not hard or anything just to say I'm annoyed.

    That's ok with you right?

    Guessing not?

    Why is this different.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    So, the woman involved is wanting to press charges against the guy, and wants the flight attendant fired.

    She might want to read how people are viewing her at the moment.

    I mean, in this particular case, I'm on her side. That guy clearly want too passive to speak up or anything.

    Except that he did actually speak up, as she herself actually admitted:

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  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    Initially: Both sides are bad. Seat hitting guy is worse.
    Now: Pressing charges is fucking dumb and chill out lady.

    Also "with an attitude" is all kinds of red flags.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Error. I'm still not seeing where she was wrong? He asked her to put it up while he was eating. She did.

    After eating, she put it back down...

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Error. I'm still not seeing where she was wrong? He asked her to put it up while he was eating. She did.

    After eating, she put it back down...

    And then the guy was a complete dick.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited February 14
    VishNub wrote: »
    Initially: Both sides are bad. Seat hitting guy is worse.
    Now: Pressing charges is fucking dumb and chill out lady.

    Also "with an attitude" is all kinds of red flags.

    She has pre existing spine damage. I'm guessing being hit in the back even through a seat was *not* pleasant.

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  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Initially: Both sides are bad. Seat hitting guy is worse.
    Now: Pressing charges is fucking dumb and chill out lady.

    Also "with an attitude" is all kinds of red flags.

    She has pre existing spine damage. I'm guessing being hit in the back even through a seat was *not* pleasant.

    I was not aware of that detail

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  • ThroThro [email protected] Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Initially: Both sides are bad. Seat hitting guy is worse.
    Now: Pressing charges is fucking dumb and chill out lady.

    Also "with an attitude" is all kinds of red flags.

    She has pre existing spine damage. I'm guessing being hit in the back even through a seat was *not* pleasant.
    Don't want to sound like I side with the punchy dude in this (I lean my seat at least some of the way back), but;
    Apparently not so unpleasant she just stood up instead of just sitting there filming it.

  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    Initially: Both sides are bad. Seat hitting guy is worse.
    Now: Pressing charges is fucking dumb and chill out lady.

    Also "with an attitude" is all kinds of red flags.

    I think the part of the new development that looks bad to people is hoping to get the flight attendant fired. An apology and compensation, given pre-existing injury, are reasonable. Wanting someone else who had to make a call on incomplete information to suffer is less so.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • ThroThro [email protected] Registered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    Initially: Both sides are bad. Seat hitting guy is worse.
    Now: Pressing charges is fucking dumb and chill out lady.

    Also "with an attitude" is all kinds of red flags.

    I think the part of the new development that looks bad to people is hoping to get the flight attendant fired. An apology and compensation, given pre-existing injury, are reasonable. Wanting someone else who had to make a call on incomplete information to suffer is less so.

    Yeah I kinda feel that "successfully diffused situation" ranks higher on a flight attendant's job than "perfectly handed out justice in accordance with governing laws of the sky".

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Thro wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Initially: Both sides are bad. Seat hitting guy is worse.
    Now: Pressing charges is fucking dumb and chill out lady.

    Also "with an attitude" is all kinds of red flags.

    I think the part of the new development that looks bad to people is hoping to get the flight attendant fired. An apology and compensation, given pre-existing injury, are reasonable. Wanting someone else who had to make a call on incomplete information to suffer is less so.

    Yeah I kinda feel that "successfully diffused situation" ranks higher on a flight attendant's job than "perfectly handed out justice in accordance with governing laws of the sky".

    Yeah, it seems weird to give the asshole a prize for his behaviour but from the flight attendants perspective the only goal here is to diffuse the situation long enough for the plane to land so they don't have to deal with these idiots anymore.

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