[Bad News Gone Right]: 40% chance of "where's the gone right?".

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  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    Where do you think the charging port is?

    I mean, the blowhole, obviously. It's an educational dolphin built to mimic, it's gotta refill just like a real dolphin. Now, are you going to answer questions with questions, or are you gonna give up the deets on the robodolphin dick?

    All the animals in Robot Park are female. We know robots can't breed but we've seen enough movies and we aren't taking chances.

    "You don't let them breed, but you let them repair. What if they 'repair' something new?"

    *dramatic sting as all the clues fall into place*

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  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    Where do you think the charging port is?

    I mean, the blowhole, obviously. It's an educational dolphin built to mimic, it's gotta refill just like a real dolphin. Now, are you going to answer questions with questions, or are you gonna give up the deets on the robodolphin dick?

    All the animals in Robot Park are female. We know robots can't breed but we've seen enough movies and we aren't taking chances.

    I don't think we're talking robot on robot copulation.
    Not if we want to make the real money anyway...

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Today in "duh", science finds out something women have always known:

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  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    But is it really science if you don't peer review it?

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    We are the monsters under our beds.
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I'm reminded, against my will, of the British ban on female orgasms in porn.

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 25
    print that one out and put it in the bedside binder I guess

    Edit: oh, this makes a lot more sense



    I mean it's still fucking stupid that we have to do a lot of science to convince doctors that not all our physical problems are just "crazy-women-brain, try being less crazy and/or woman"
    but the study itself is more nuanced and important.

    tynic on
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    print that one out and put it in the bedside binder I guess

    Edit: oh, this makes a lot more sense



    I mean it's still fucking stupid that we have to do a lot of science to convince doctors that not all our physical problems are just "crazy-women-brain, try being less crazy and/or woman"
    but the study itself is more nuanced and important.

    Medicine has a fuckton of misogyny.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    print that one out and put it in the bedside binder I guess

    Edit: oh, this makes a lot more sense



    I mean it's still fucking stupid that we have to do a lot of science to convince doctors that not all our physical problems are just "crazy-women-brain, try being less crazy and/or woman"
    but the study itself is more nuanced and important.

    Medicine has a fuckton of misogyny.

    Everything has a fuckton of misogyny
    https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/invisible-women/

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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Replacing animals with robots would kill the one of the only solid reason zoos still exist: getting kids connected to and interested in animals so they will grow up fighting to keep them from going extinct. Kids aren't stupid. The really young ones may not get that the animals are fake, but it's definitely going to matter when they get over 5-7 years old and understand it's a sham. They'll probably still be impressed, but they'll be impressed with robotics, not animals. Disconnecting kids from seeing real animals is the perfect opening for sleazy types to get all sorts of habitats wiped out once people grow up without ever having gotten to make these personal connections to these critters in person and thus simply don't grow up paying attention to what's happening to those places.

    And the kinds of zoos that are truly horrible for animals are the kinds of zoos which would also never pay for an expensive robot animal and an operator to pretend to be an animal, so that's not going to fix anything.

    The tech sounds interesting as hell for making fake theme parks about extinct animals, though, and supplementing existing zoos with demos of being up close to an animal. Kids going to the zoo to see a grizzly bear would be a hell of a lot more impressed by seeing a live one and then getting to get close to a fake one to see just how huge they can be.

    I could even see there being a point to having a few "exhibitless" zoos where the "animals" are just walking around for people to interact with, but no way do I see this as an effective wholesale replacement of zoos everywhere. Seeing a fake polar bear simply isn't the same experience as seeing an actual living, thinking one on the other side of some glass.

    YMMV, but Nature on PBS did more to get me interested in wildlife as a kid than zoos ever did. Not that zoos aren't cool, but Nature was so much more interesting :razz:

    I was a kid for whom most things that claimed to "get kids interested in _______!" fell utterly flat, though. I don't know how typical that is.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Replacing animals with robots would kill the one of the only solid reason zoos still exist: getting kids connected to and interested in animals so they will grow up fighting to keep them from going extinct. Kids aren't stupid. The really young ones may not get that the animals are fake, but it's definitely going to matter when they get over 5-7 years old and understand it's a sham. They'll probably still be impressed, but they'll be impressed with robotics, not animals. Disconnecting kids from seeing real animals is the perfect opening for sleazy types to get all sorts of habitats wiped out once people grow up without ever having gotten to make these personal connections to these critters in person and thus simply don't grow up paying attention to what's happening to those places.

    And the kinds of zoos that are truly horrible for animals are the kinds of zoos which would also never pay for an expensive robot animal and an operator to pretend to be an animal, so that's not going to fix anything.

    The tech sounds interesting as hell for making fake theme parks about extinct animals, though, and supplementing existing zoos with demos of being up close to an animal. Kids going to the zoo to see a grizzly bear would be a hell of a lot more impressed by seeing a live one and then getting to get close to a fake one to see just how huge they can be.

    I could even see there being a point to having a few "exhibitless" zoos where the "animals" are just walking around for people to interact with, but no way do I see this as an effective wholesale replacement of zoos everywhere. Seeing a fake polar bear simply isn't the same experience as seeing an actual living, thinking one on the other side of some glass.

    I never thought it would be controversial to say that the entire point of a zoo was to see a real animal.

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 25
    There's a lot of really horrible abusive zoos in China, which is where the dolphins were going to be installed IRRC.

    I think there's a lot of value in urban kids being able to have some level of contact with real animals, but I would be completely happy if those environments were more regulated and restricted and instead we replaced a lot of the small shitty private zoos that currently exist with advanced animatronics. Advances in biomimicry are pretty awesome in their own right, as long as we recognize that robots are a separate thing and in no way make up for the loss of population and habitat of the animals themselves.

    tynic on
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Speaking of robots, this your doing, @tynic here?



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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    hahaha
    no but I know those guys (usually they make a big deal about its jumping prowess rather than its doorknob prowess, which is frankly a bit shit). It's extremely cute!

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    hahaha
    no but I know those guys (usually they make a big deal about its jumping prowess rather than its doorknob prowess, which is frankly a bit shit). It's extremely cute!

    That's what it wants you to think.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 25
    I love how the video hangs on "The company hopes the robot can be a precursor to ..." so you can fill in the blank with "the end of human civilization" or "synthetic home murder sprees" or the like before they actually give the rest of the sentence.

    shryke on
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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    hahaha
    no but I know those guys (usually they make a big deal about its jumping prowess rather than its doorknob prowess, which is frankly a bit shit). It's extremely cute!

    That's what it wants you to think.
    That's how it actually gets in, past the locks.

  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Replacing animals with robots would kill the one of the only solid reason zoos still exist: getting kids connected to and interested in animals so they will grow up fighting to keep them from going extinct. Kids aren't stupid. The really young ones may not get that the animals are fake, but it's definitely going to matter when they get over 5-7 years old and understand it's a sham. They'll probably still be impressed, but they'll be impressed with robotics, not animals. Disconnecting kids from seeing real animals is the perfect opening for sleazy types to get all sorts of habitats wiped out once people grow up without ever having gotten to make these personal connections to these critters in person and thus simply don't grow up paying attention to what's happening to those places.

    And the kinds of zoos that are truly horrible for animals are the kinds of zoos which would also never pay for an expensive robot animal and an operator to pretend to be an animal, so that's not going to fix anything.

    The tech sounds interesting as hell for making fake theme parks about extinct animals, though, and supplementing existing zoos with demos of being up close to an animal. Kids going to the zoo to see a grizzly bear would be a hell of a lot more impressed by seeing a live one and then getting to get close to a fake one to see just how huge they can be.

    I could even see there being a point to having a few "exhibitless" zoos where the "animals" are just walking around for people to interact with, but no way do I see this as an effective wholesale replacement of zoos everywhere. Seeing a fake polar bear simply isn't the same experience as seeing an actual living, thinking one on the other side of some glass.

    I never thought it would be controversial to say that the entire point of a zoo was to see a real animal.

    yes but do you understand that zoos are bad

    shryke
  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    I was wondering, since they are autonomous water faring robots, instead of fake zoos, could they be repurposed to some sort of garbage collector for the ocean?

    And just send em out 24/7

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    MichaelLC wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    Where do you think the charging port is?

    I mean, the blowhole, obviously. It's an educational dolphin built to mimic, it's gotta refill just like a real dolphin. Now, are you going to answer questions with questions, or are you gonna give up the deets on the robodolphin dick?

    All the animals in Robot Park are female. We know robots can't breed but we've seen enough movies and we aren't taking chances.

    I don't think we're talking robot on robot copulation.
    Not if we want to make the real money anyway...

    Look, what's the point in taking your kids to the zoo if you don't have to awkwardly shoo them away from animals fucking?

    Nobeard
  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    They’re not autonomous

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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I love how the video hangs on "The company hopes the robot can be a precursor to ..." so you can fill in the blank with "the end of human civilization" or "synthetic home murder sprees" or the like before they actually give the rest of the sentence.

    Also the ending "hope it doesn't fall into the wrong hands."

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Replacing animals with robots would kill the one of the only solid reason zoos still exist: getting kids connected to and interested in animals so they will grow up fighting to keep them from going extinct. Kids aren't stupid. The really young ones may not get that the animals are fake, but it's definitely going to matter when they get over 5-7 years old and understand it's a sham. They'll probably still be impressed, but they'll be impressed with robotics, not animals. Disconnecting kids from seeing real animals is the perfect opening for sleazy types to get all sorts of habitats wiped out once people grow up without ever having gotten to make these personal connections to these critters in person and thus simply don't grow up paying attention to what's happening to those places.

    And the kinds of zoos that are truly horrible for animals are the kinds of zoos which would also never pay for an expensive robot animal and an operator to pretend to be an animal, so that's not going to fix anything.

    The tech sounds interesting as hell for making fake theme parks about extinct animals, though, and supplementing existing zoos with demos of being up close to an animal. Kids going to the zoo to see a grizzly bear would be a hell of a lot more impressed by seeing a live one and then getting to get close to a fake one to see just how huge they can be.

    I could even see there being a point to having a few "exhibitless" zoos where the "animals" are just walking around for people to interact with, but no way do I see this as an effective wholesale replacement of zoos everywhere. Seeing a fake polar bear simply isn't the same experience as seeing an actual living, thinking one on the other side of some glass.

    I never thought it would be controversial to say that the entire point of a zoo was to see a real animal.

    yes but do you understand that zoos are bad

    Except they aren't? Yeah, there are still all too many bad zoos and there are animals where we continue to struggle to build adequate living environments for (most notably cetaceans, which need lots of open water to live in and are virtually never kept in places with sufficient volume and depth to keep them properly healthy), but the bulk of animal species can be kept safe, healthy, and content in artificial environments where they will easily outlive their wild counterparts by huge margins. Much of what people think is "sad" about keeping animals in zoos is just people projecting what they feel animals should be doing, not what those animals actually give a shit about (which is generally eating, not getting eaten, and reproducing). Most animals don't give a damn that they might live in a small space and a lot of them don't even have a concept of "small space" or being confined.

    There are absolutely some animals that present special challenges in adequately housing and caring for them, but the spectrum is infinitely more varied than just "zoos are bad". Unless, of course, people just want to skip right over to making sure that every species we don't eat, keep as pets, or ride goes extinct in the next century because somehow keeping representative members of a species in an artificial environment is more of a bad thing than having them all die off because nobody sees them to ever give a shit in the first place.

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  • David WalgasDavid Walgas Registered User regular
    edited June 26
    I was wondering, since they are autonomous water faring robots, instead of fake zoos, could they be repurposed to some sort of garbage collector for the ocean?

    And just send em out 24/7

    I actually worked on a project to remove garbage from the oceans via robits a while ago as part of my undergrad. Turns out lots of the trash we left there is now new habitats for critters like nudibranchs and other planktonic life. So even if we pull it all out it’s a problem. Woo.

    David Walgas on
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    They’re not autonomous

    Yet...

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  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    Where do you think the charging port is?

    I mean, the blowhole, obviously. It's an educational dolphin built to mimic, it's gotta refill just like a real dolphin. Now, are you going to answer questions with questions, or are you gonna give up the deets on the robodolphin dick?

    All the animals in Robot Park are female. We know robots can't breed but we've seen enough movies and we aren't taking chances.

    No dicks, no dollars. A harbor porpoise penis reaches to his non existant chin. Think of the industrial and military applications! You eggheads never see the bigger picture...

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  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Is keeping animals in zoos really the only option we have for them not going extinct

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  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    Is keeping animals in zoos really the only option we have for them not going extinct

    In a perfect world, no. In the one we have, yes, for certain species. The only reason many species are not extinct in the wild is because of zoo breeding programs that reintroduce them in their native ranges.

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  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    Is keeping animals in zoos really the only option we have for them not going extinct

    I think you need to start by stating why zoos are unsalvageable as a concept. The idea of charging people to see the animal you have in order to pay for the upkeep the animal requires isn't inherently exploitative as long as the animal's needs come first instead of profit, and zoos (in the West) are generally run ethically. (Seaworld is not a zoo.)

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Is keeping animals in zoos really the only option we have for them not going extinct
    No, but the folks that are 100% anti-zoo offer zero middleground between shutting down all zoos, plus the inevitable fucking over animals in the long-term, or keeping zoos. They just want no zoos, and that's not even remotely workable if we want to improve conservation efforts worldwide.

    In a perfect world, all animal habitats would be preserved and protected from human destruction and all people would be able to freely visit whichever ecosystem they want. In the real world, zoos are vital for preserving the genetics of a number of endangered species and keeping people aware of what threatens ecosystems (thus getting them interested in protecting animals). Until worldwide human ethics catches up conservation efforts at least to the point of wiping out the folks butchering endangered species for magical dick powder for rich morons, it's not realistic to even begin exploring the option of "no zoos". And even then, the starting point would be "really good zoos until species repopulate", not shutting them down. And I would still support zoos after that because you can't just haul kids into a wild habitat to look at tigers, so zoos would still be important in keeping people from being okay with letting industries and individuals turn forests into shitty farmland for cash crops.

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  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    I'm personally more fond of the zoos that display local wildlife than the exotic varieties.
    Here in Scania we have "Skånes djurpark" which is specialized in nordic animals (everything from rare breeds of farm animals to stuff like Wolverines and bears). With the exception of their areas for wolves and eagles (which are IMHO a bit on the small side) animals at the park have a decent amount of space, and it's a great place to bring city-kids who have never seen a live badger, fox, moose or seal (I used to do that when I worked as a youth recreational leader every summer).
    Without a wildlife park those kids would never have seen any of those animals for real, and without that personal connection I think you have a hard time getting people to understand the importance of protecting those species in the wild.

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  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Honestly I feel like David Attenborough style documentaries do as much to make people appreciate protecting wild spaces as seeing a tiger sleeping behind some glass but maybe that's just me.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    I 1000% disagree. Attenborough's work is important and is particularly awesome for helping to show how all the pieces fit together, but there is absolutely nothing that compares to being six years old and seeing, hearing, and smelling a living, thinking animal less than a foot from you. There's a world of difference between, say, seeing an orangutan on a show and sitting in front of one and having it look at you, eye-to-eye, with both of you trying to figure out what the other guy is thinking.

    The video will make somebody intellectually aware of what's happening, but getting to be there with the animals is what makes people realize they're not "just" animals. Even the simple ones are thinking to some extent, and smart ones looking at you, personally, is something that touches right to the core. And that connection is what gets a kid to grow up to aggressively pursue conservation instead of being marginally aware of it, because they're personally invested in making sure those animals are preserved for future generations to have the same experience.

    One of my favorite jobs ever was shoveling animal shit at a zoo. I didn't even get paid to do it and it was backbreaking work, but it was entirely worth it just to be there for physical experience of being around these animals I would almost certainly never be able to get near without a zoo. And the amount of the attention the animals got was insane; even a tiny little scrape, something you or I wouldn't put a band-aid on, got daily visits from the zoo vet to check for infections. I've had a lion giving me warning growls because he was getting milk during his regular checkup and he didn't know me, so he was making it clear that this was HIS milk and I was not welcome to it. And I can describe that, but there's no adequate description for being a couple feet from a 400-pound killing machine being touchy about you being too close while he greedily slurps milk from a bottle. Or I can describe how utterly bizarre it is to see an 800 pound pile of lions fighting like housecats, complete with the same body language and noises, but I can never properly convey being there.

    Video is entirely too sterile to carry the weight of anything like a zoo visit. A good one of those can literally change a kid's entire outlook on the world and life, and it can still spook a fully-grown adult if they're really paying attention.

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  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    I enjoy how you're talking to me like I clearly never went to a zoo as a kid

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  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    I enjoy how you're talking to me like I clearly never went to a zoo as a kid

    Look Smof, until you have the experience of being near a real living lion, which everyone on these forums knows you have never had, you just couldn't possibly understand.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    You know, for that matter, why travel? I can see pictures of the rest of the world right here on my tablet. If I want to try foreign food, I can look up their recipes (or, since I’m in a mid sized city, I could just go to a restaurant or grocery store). And if I want to talk to people from those areas, well, I’m kinda doing it right now!

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited June 26
    Is keeping animals in zoos really the only option we have for them not going extinct

    Keeping them in captivity very much is. The entire reason animals are endangered isn't just numbers - there are species considered functionally extinct in the wild that are still more numerous and widespread than ones considered least concern because their habits and the condition or division of their habitat prevents long term continuity.

    Doing this is expensive, and donations don't cover 5% of what's needed and most of those donations go to shitty lie factories like the WWF instead of ones that do good work. The programs themselves need revenue.

    Zoos aren't the only option... They're not even the best. The best conservation programs are captive breeding programs which supply zoos and wild release centers... These make their money by selling males past breeding age for trophy hunts, and keep loosing outside support or having their facilities burned down by ecoterrorists because of it, leaving zoos the safer and more successful option.

    Hevach on
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited June 26
    I 1000% disagree. Attenborough's work is important and is particularly awesome for helping to show how all the pieces fit together, but there is absolutely nothing that compares to being six years old and seeing, hearing, and smelling a living, thinking animal less than a foot from you. There's a world of difference between, say, seeing an orangutan on a show and sitting in front of one and having it look at you, eye-to-eye, with both of you trying to figure out what the other guy is thinking.

    Yeah, I'll never forget being six and seeing an orangutan sitting in a room about two arm spans wide look me in the eye and obviously thinking "I want to die"

    Veevee on
  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    Because it is both topical and this is thread is normally like 50% about bears:

    Bearcam is back!



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  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    I would like to chime in and say that there are some truly heinous aquariums and zoo's out there that abuse and exploit animals which should absolutely be shut down and people prosecuted.
    There are also zoo's and aquariums that are basically hospitals with viewing rooms where injured or abandoned animals go to for care and survival.
    The "zoo" part of this pays for the staff and care of these animals and it pisses me off when people advocate for them to be shut down because the outcome for the animals is now death.
    Not every rehabilitated animal can go back into the wild and some required constant care. Allowing the public to see and be educated about these animals "in real life" is huge and the money that comes along with that goes to help the animals survive where the alternative is nature taking it's course.

    I have a lot of issues with how some animals are cared for and shipped around and exploited but I'm not at all an advocate for shutting down all zoo's or sanctuaries where animals are kept.


    Anyway, bears are awesome and nature cams are addicting as fuck.

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  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited June 26
    Aridhol wrote: »
    I would like to chime in and say that there are some truly heinous aquariums and zoo's out there that abuse and exploit animals which should absolutely be shut down and people prosecuted.
    There are also zoo's and aquariums that are basically hospitals with viewing rooms where injured or abandoned animals go to for care and survival.
    The "zoo" part of this pays for the staff and care of these animals and it pisses me off when people advocate for them to be shut down because the outcome for the animals is now death.
    Not every rehabilitated animal can go back into the wild and some required constant care. Allowing the public to see and be educated about these animals "in real life" is huge and the money that comes along with that goes to help the animals survive where the alternative is nature taking it's course.

    I have a lot of issues with how some animals are cared for and shipped around and exploited but I'm not at all an advocate for shutting down all zoo's or sanctuaries where animals are kept.


    Anyway, bears are awesome and nature cams are addicting as fuck.

    Yea we have a raptor rescue center here that does amazing work. They do their best to rehabilitate birds that have been injured, especially ones struck by vehicles or hurt by other man made means, but not all of them can go back. They have pretty good enclosures that help to mitigate their disabilities and the more personable birds are part of teaching shows.

    Having a giant ass barn owl sit on your arm is amazing. Also burrowing owls are the best, and I wish they were domesticated so I could have one as a pet.

    Our coastal aquarium was the one who built a giant enclosure to help rehabilitate the killer whale Keiko (the whale from free willy) while he was being prepped to return the the wild. It was an amazing tank for the time, and they did their best to make it interesting for him while he was there. The walls and floors were rough with unique geometric shapes so he could have something to "look at" with his echo location instead of perfectly smooth tank walls. In the years since they've rebuilt it into a pacific northwest fish and shark tank with one of those viewing tubes running through it that you can walk around. It's pretty nice.


    I guess the issue is that Zoo is a broad term that covers the shittiest for profit parks and on the other end rescue and recovery parks that are at least trying to be decent and really consider the needs of their charges.

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