[Heroes of the Storm] Coronavirus can't kill HotS if it's already dead #rollsafe

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    milk ducks wrote: »
    I unironically want Ammo to return as structure mechanic. I want minion-based heroes (Azmodan, Nazeebo, Xul) to be able to wear Defenses down over time by overwhelming them with additional targets. I want Supports to gain functionality related to restoring Structure Ammo. I want it to be a game mechanic that encourages the emergence of new strategies, drafts, and metas. The current iteration of structure design has no soul, and encourages awkward, counterintuitive gameplay / player choices.

    Who said i was being ironic about it? I always thought the game lost some of its unique identity when they removed ammo

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    I honestly don't quite remember how the game felt with ammo, but, what I do know is that the current offlane situation fuckin sucks ass lmao

    It's boring as fuck. Optimal solo lane play means letting the minion wave push up to your towers, NOT KILLING THEM, and letting the lane freeze out so you can bully the opposing enemy offlaner out of exp.

    OR. They're smart too so they don't touch the minions, so now no one's touching minions and you're both just playing super passively trying to poke the other out and force taps or backs.

    This is moderately better than bush soaking, at least, but it's still super boring. I'd be willing to try out an anomaly where ammo returns just to see what it's like.

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  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    I do miss Chen being an ammo draining GOD

    Smrtnik
  • GroveGrove Los AngelesRegistered User regular
    I find ammo to be the most boring, gamey mechanic hots ever had since I’ve been playing. Just dull. The tower behavior is the only thing from league I wanted. I hope a version of it stays even if it’s tweaked.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I think the last page of tower discussions here proves that the HotS team will never please everyone. There’s no real good compromise either.

    I wouldn’t mind ammo returning, but only on the Towers. Then have the damage per shot increase and the ammo recharge faster, even faster if someone is in the lane. Keeps and Forts have unlimited shots and targeting as usual. It’s kind of a mix of both designs.

    Sure, it might be confusing but generally speaking HotS players never learn about the game mechanics anyway, so screw it.

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  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    What if the presence of ammo simply upgraded the defenses? So defenses with no ammo could keep attacking with basic attacks, but the presence of ammo would upgrade their attacks with additional effects such as superior range, damage, AOES, or debuffs like slows or armor reduction?

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    Ammo as a mechanic gives you a ton of design options to work with, yeah.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Ammo sucks because it makes split-pushing more viable. If they somehow managed to mitigate that issue, I'd be fine with it.

    But one of this game's issues is that it is viable for a single hero to shove buildings down if they are left alone. Split pushing really should only be viable if you have to commit more than a single hero to it. Otherwise it becomes too easy for a single player to massively skew the game, and adds to the confusion around why there are these massive objectives that the game screams at you to fight over yet in many cases* it's actually better for your team not to show up or just to stall them out.

    *many cases being nearly all cases given the current tower changes, IMHO

    Grove
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    Invictus wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    That was the third time I have left a Hanamura game because my Ai teammates are broken or pants on the stuff stupid and being doomed to play healer
    I was facing Deathwing, Stiches, Lucio Junkrat and the three Vikings they all were moving around as a group so it was not fun. I got two of the AI teammates to follow me but they got caught in the loop of choices and just would do the twitch of confusion nothing more

    I really feel the more get doomed with healer and hit up AI games they want you to play Qp or with real people in a Ai game but if you play with a real person I really feel they want you to make a good teammate selection and not just play any old healer

    Nope! no one cares who you play in vs AI, or even in QM, to be honest. They really don't.

    The only thing about playing vs AI is that there are apparently only the loosest rules on team comp, which can turn "just want a brainless 10 minute stomp" into an interesting challenge when it's like, "Okay, your team is Lucio, Morales, Auriel, Brightwing, and ETC. Let's see how you do against Deathwing, Genji, Zagara, Alarak, and Ana."

    Eyyyyyyyy. The exact thing happened.

    HcE9Lhw.png

    I just wanted to clear out my dailies, man. But always fun to have an excuse to go full offensive W build with Auriel, and then stack up Reservoir until it's an instant spammable AoE Ancestral.

    forty
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I do like how the one "Assassin" on your team ended up with the lowest hero damage (yes, I realize he was focused on laning).

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    I've straight-up lost to a 5-support Uther-tank comp on Tomb of the Spider Queen, of all places. We could keep them on the ropes with turn-ins, because they had no wave clear, but outside of that we really struggled to find advantages because they had all the CC in the world and just wouldn't die.

  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I think the last page of tower discussions here proves that the HotS team will never please everyone.

    Oh we learned that from the financial reports BLAMMO

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Another win/loss last night. In the win, we fell behind early on tiers and rallied for the win. Weirdly, another salty Muradin complaining about the damage dealers all game.

    “Your build is trash.”
    “Ok”
    “You shouldn’t play ranked anymore”
    “Yes sir”
    “Leave it to real players who understand the game”
    “You got it”

    Thankfully, our Brightwing had a great attitude and we just laughed off all the salt and focused on winning. A few Meph E->W combos into a Consume Souls and sealed the game.

    Me: “GG all. I’m off to uninstall the game!”
    Mura: “good”
    BW: “No stay!”
    Me: “ok BW, I’ll stay!”
    Mura: “fuck you both”

    I think I should make a Salt of the Storm YouTube page that complies all the salt/rage stuff from games. At least I could make some money off these goofs. Like, comment, and subscribe!

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Heroes of the Salt

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
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    well this is a first

    i have NEVER ever ever ever had that much damage as Illidan before. Illidan is notorious for usually having pretty low sheet damage but somehow i racked up 94k damage in a game without any tanks or healers.

    i mean i guess a 30 minute game will do that, too, but

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    Heaviest team we've played with in a long time.

    Dibby
  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    My last game the enemy had Abby with a Illidan and cassia.

    On load in, our medivh said, and I quote "fuck matchmaker that's gross" and promptly disconnected.

    Friends, medivh ai is not good.

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Heaviest team we've played with in a long time.

    deepest fucking sigh at the 14 death genji and the 13 death ZJ who attempted to use guillotine on a fucking murky. whose egg was still alive. who still had bubble, ffs.

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    edited May 24
    Saw Hawkray had a spot open this morning in QM, so I hopped into his party. We won, then I dropped so a friend of his could get in. I grouped up with some of my other friends, and we got matched up against Hawkray. We won XD. I fed one death in the first minute or so because I thought Diablo's Shadow Charge was on cooldown and I ended up getting absolutely fucking wall-banged, but didn't die for the rest of the match.

    milk ducks on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Friends, medivh ai is not good.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
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    Whoof this game was rough. It was super super super rough and it was literally because of one person on our team that things were as dicey as they were.

    It's cause Mephisto went W build with Durance into Mimic at 20.

    Ducks and I have talked a lot to each other about how W build is dumb and why even bother taking Mimic when you can literally press a single button and WIN THE VIDEO GAME at level 20 instead (especially in a match like this without any healers, good lord). And it's like.... yeah, sure, he had a buncha kills and only 1 death and did damage wHATEVER, but. He took Durance, missed almost all of them (the ones he did land were when they target was gonna die regardless), and went W build into Mimic.

    Do you know how sketchy the teamfights were this game? Do you know how low people were getting this game? And walking away for free? My dude over here coulda pressed one button and gotten full fuckin reset into full fuckin teamwipe but nah.

    maybe i'm just salty that i died 7 times tho LMAO

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I think 7 death wannabe hero Illidan was the real problem.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I almost always go W build these days, but even I take consume souls. Because I know that I’m always going to miss that skill shot, and more likely than not, someone’s gonna walk away with a sliver of health. At 20, I’ll take mimic if I haven’t had any problems getting extra kills, or the ult upgrade if people are walking away with slivers of health after the ult.

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  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Where else do you expect people to practice landing durance?

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    Where else do you expect people to practice landing durance?

    they can practice landing durance by not taking it

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 25
    I just checked out HP and, quite shockingly to me, Durance is picked significantly more than Consume Souls.

    Edit: In SL, that is. In QM it's the other way around.

    forty on
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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited May 26
    real talk though, the only time i take Durance is vs teams that can immune it out. heroes like Medivh or Lucio or Anduin, etc etc

    Durance isn't bad, but it also isn't Consume Souls


    edit: ah, against hypercarry dive heroes is a consideration too, like vs a butcher. you just hang in the back, butcher charges someone else, durance him, he eats shit and you get an instant 5v4. it all depends, though.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Tried new Cassia again. Ugh so squishy.

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    I definitely think Durance has value. In fact, I think it's super good. Mephisto's W build is good, too, and I actually think Mimic is very strong (double Novas means double damage and, maybe more importantly, double cooldown reduction). But Durance and W require higher skill floors to be effective. Can you not land a Durance effectively? If not, you shouldn't take it. Can you effectively manage your positioning to properly leverage Mimic to its fullest potential? If not, don't take it.

    This is a problem I see constantly -- people playing builds (and heroes) they aren't skilled enough to play. There's nothing wrong with playing "low skill" options with regard to builds or heroes, especially if that's where you are in terms of ability. It feels like everyone in HotS thinks they're Fan, when in reality, they aren't even Pallytime.

    W build and Mimic and Durance are all bad ass, if you can play it. And if you aren't comfortable with that, it's okay. There are absolutely issues with the build I play; I'll never act like there aren't. But I'm comfortable with it, and my opponents never, ever counterplay it appropriately, and I can get away with stupid shit like 300k damage in a match.

    If your opponents aren't skilled enough to counterplay Consume Souls resets, I say go for it. Because that build opens up the option of potentially flat-out winning the match post-20 by hitting E-R. And I think that's just too good to pass up most of the time, frankly, because your teammates are almost always complete mouth-breathers, and you're gonna want the option to simply win the game yourself.

    milk ducks on
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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Tried new Cassia again. Ugh so squishy.

    I have not played her since they changed her though my brother has and it depends on the team you are facing and the one you are with but she is ever more a killing machine than before

  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    I'm fairly certain Cassia is butt-farts in her current iteration. She feels bad at everything, and I struggle to think of any reason I'd ever draft her. I agree that her old kit needed an update, but at least it had a purpose, as designated anti-physical. Her current kit serves no such role, and basically does nothing exceptionally.

    It's like, does she have wave clear? No. Does she have CC and pick potential? No. Does she solo lane especially well? No. Does she take mercs quickly? No. Does she stack out of her mind in a 4stack and grow into a late game monster? No. Does she even do a lot of damage? Not especially.

    At least before, she brought Blinds and phenomenal physical armor to a team, making her ideal to counter enemy physical carries. But now she has fuck all going for her. If I want a designated anti-physical hero, I'm just going to pick Artanis, since he provides more front line, more damage, more wave clear, better merc and PvE potential, reliable picks via Swaps, can become a serious late-game carry, etc.

    milk ducks on
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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Cassia has some.... interesting problems at the moment. I think, first and foremost, they changed her trait from being binary (on/off) to having this weird state of flux where it has to build up for 3 seconds and becomes this annoying game of upkeep and maintenance. Valla has a similar build up mechanic but it's easier to build up and harder to fall off. Cassia's is entirely too punitive. You get punished way too hard for it falling off, and boy is it easy for it to fall off.

    They also just nerfed her damage way too fucking hard, honestly.

    I have no earthly clue why they felt the need to make her trait into... this. It's not fun, it doesn't feel good, it's just ass and it holds her back. Just make it on/off again and lower it to 20 Armor, no build up. That's hella dumb.

    Dibby on
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  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Her armor drops off so quickly that, if she gets stunned (when you'd want the armor the most) it's completely stripped away and useless against enemy follow-up. Hell, it's almost completely gone by the time she's thrown a Q.

    milk ducks on
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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    I definitely think Durance has value. In fact, I think it's super good. Mephisto's W build is good, too, and I actually think Mimic is very strong (double Novas means double damage and, maybe more importantly, double cooldown reduction). But Durance and W require higher skill floors to be effective. Can you not land a Durance effectively? If not, you shouldn't take it. Can you effectively manage your positioning to properly leverage Mimic to its fullest potential? If not, don't take it.

    This is a problem I see constantly -- people playing builds (and heroes) they aren't skilled enough to play. There's nothing wrong with playing "low skill" options with regard to builds or heroes, especially if that's where you are in terms of ability. It feels like everyone in HotS thinks they're Fan, when in reality, they aren't even Pallytime.

    W build and Mimic and Durance are all bad ass, if you can play it. And if you aren't comfortable with that, it's okay. There are absolutely issues with the build I play; I'll never act like there aren't. But I'm comfortable with it, and my opponents never, ever counterplay it appropriately, and I can get away with stupid shit like 300k damage in a match.

    If your opponents aren't skilled enough to counterplay Consume Souls resets, I say go for it. Because that build opens up the option of potentially flat-out winning the match post-20 by hitting E-R. And I think that's just too good to pass up most of the time, frankly, because your teammates are almost always complete mouth-breathers, and you're gonna want the option to simply win the game yourself.

    All this is correct, yeah ,but also QM is the place I go to practice these things when I'm bad :D

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Her armor drops off so quickly that, if she gets stunned (when you'd want the armor the most) it's completely stripped away and useless against enemy follow-up. Hell, it's almost completely gone by the time she's thrown a Q.

    When it falls off, you're out of the fight for 3 full seconds.

    3 seconds is an eternity in moba time. That's insane.

    Literally Valla just has to auto. That's it. And she even gets that talent later that cuts the build-up time in half.

    Imagine losing stacks and having to be out of a fight for three full seconds before you can rejoin. Three. Full. Seconds.

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    milk ducks
  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    Valkyrie remains the most laughably dodgable 10 in the game.

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Valkyrie remains the most laughably dodgable 10 in the game.

    Not necessarily. I've had many many good picks with Valkyrie before, er, pre-rework.

    It's the more difficult Ult to use, but used properly it's pretty nuts. I will say if you just throw it out raw in the open, yeah, it'll probably miss. The good opportunities come when you're fighting in chokes or when the enemy is retreating on a linear path, or follow-up to tank cc. Ideally you also toss it at the exact distance to where it'll clip someone immediately and they won't be able to walk out.

    Dibby on
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  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    True!

    I guess I should have qualified with *in an average QM

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    True!

    I guess I should have qualified with *in an average QM

    All I play is QM, homie 8-)

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