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[EU]ropean democracies thread

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Yeah, I'm thinking saber rattling too. They didn't handle the early waves of the pandemic well at all, there's the rumors about Putin's health (possible neurologial condition like Parkinson's), and the general state of supply lines and global economy. Vlad's trying to project strength to keep the population's focus on external events and so they won't attempt a repeat of the October Revolution.

    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    While I rather think it's just saber rattling from Putin as well, I would like to point out that it is an awfully big saber he's got on the border with Ukraine right now.

    StarZapperJragghenBlackDragon480Lord_AsmodeusSmrtnikboogedyboo
  • StarZapperStarZapper Vermont, Bizzaro world.Registered User regular
    I wouldn't really be shocked if they did cross into Donetsk & the other rebel held areas and annexed them the same way they did Crimnea, it wouldn't even be the 1st or 2nd time they've invaded Ukraine. They've been building up to it for the past decade it seems. Functionally speaking the world's just been looking the other way the whole time. I certainly hope that's not the case, but asking that NATO simply not do it's function is not a reasonable request. It's very dangerous saber rattling if nothing else.

    OrcaJragghenBlackDragon480Lord_AsmodeusFencingsax
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Might be testing the waters, and sending orders to his minions, too. His right wing lackeys all over Europe will probably "start asking questions" soon about "whether NATO should really risk it " and stuff like that.

    Then when they have been sufficiently sowing distrust for some time, he'll ask the question again, and hope the answer from Nato will be "of course NATO will commit suicide Mr Putin, thank you"

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • AbsalonAbsalon Registered User regular
    edited December 2021
    Putin has been working on ending the dollar's status as the petro-currency for a long time and a big invasion would mess that up. When the dollar loses its current status to the yuan, America's debt will start crippling it. Then again, just a few days ago Putin and Xi agreed on a shared financial structure that weakens the power of SWIFT so sanctions would be less effective.

    Absalon on
    We are all as God made us and frequently much worse
    GiantGeek2020painfulPleasance
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    That's regional stats, so just in the Stockholm region.

    But still, at least that would mean the conservatives wouldn't be able to chop the regional healthcare into pieces and sell to their buddies at Totally Not Corruption/Nepotism prices.
    Okay, so from a random article I googled, Sweden has a decentralized healthcare system where regional governments are required to provide healthcare for residents? Are the conservatives privatizing the healthcare systems of regions where they control the government?

    a. Sweden does have a decentralized healthcare system where regional counties (larger regions that include several municipal counties) run the majority of healthcare while municipal counties run the elderly care.
    b. Selling out the healthcare system is popular in Stockholm, which is also the only county in Sweden that has privatized an emergency hospital (St.Görans akutsjukhus).
    c. Many regional and municipal counties in Sweden run the healthcare New Public Management style, which means in addition to county-owned hospitals and clinics there are numerous private actors and some of those private actors are contracted to the county to provide specialist services. Primarily Elderly care (both for elderly homes and care-at-home) and some health centers (smaller clinics that provide local non-emergency care), but also specialist clinics. Plastic surgery (although subsidized nosejob and such is the exception. "Free" and subsidized plastic surgery is primarily fixing birth defects and fixing the cosmetic part of injuries and scars), hand&foot specialist surgery, pain-management clinics etc.
    d. Dental care is frequently private, but there is a county actor (folktandvården). Dental care is free for children, but adults pay for their own dental care (although there is yearly dental grant for 600kr and a "högkostnadsskydd" that covers 50% of all costs above 3000kr and 85% of all costs above 15000kr per year. 10kr≈1€)

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    Kaputa
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    I'm getting very strong Sudetenland vibes from Russia.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    autono-wally, erotibot300BlackDragon480enc0re
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    edited January 5
    German government just announced a parliamentary state secretary (kinda like a deputy minister) as Queer Representative.

    his mission statement seems good at least

    google translation:
    "The protection of people on the basis of their sexual and gender identity must be ensured in the Basic Law and the fundamental rights of trans, inter and non-binary people must finally be fully enforced," said Lehmann. "We also need a broad strategy to combat group-related misanthropy - including explicitly against queerophobia."

    edit: little extra feelgood moment, as I personally voted for him this election and he won this constituency in a landslide over the conservative candidate.

    honovere on
    RMS OceanicAbsalonFencingsaxStarZapperGiantGeek2020BlackDragon480Lord_AsmodeusCommander ZoomIncenjucar
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    I'm getting very strong Sudetenland vibes from Russia.

    The EU really needs to develop a common, credible, and strong position on Russian aggression. It can't be that every time push comes to shove, Team America ends up running the show. Financial Times: EU left out of upcoming security talks with Russia on Ukraine

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    enc0re wrote: »
    I'm getting very strong Sudetenland vibes from Russia.

    The EU really needs to develop a common, credible, and strong position on Russian aggression. It can't be that every time push comes to shove, Team America ends up running the show. Financial Times: EU left out of upcoming security talks with Russia on Ukraine

    Again, it comes down to the fact that Germany's short-sighted NIMBYism ended up with needing a bunch of Russian gas to keep the lights on and then, the completely predictable thing happened and Putin is using that soft power that was given to him for free to try to extract concessions.

    Lord_AsmodeusSmrtnikboogedyboo
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    edited January 5
    In a unexpected twist it's the German Greens (who also have the foreign ministry) that want a more robust approach to Russia and support for the Ukraine, even with weapons. But social democrat chancellor might run foreign relations overruling foreign ministry, just like Merkel did before.

    Like the new foreign minister even came out and said that Nordstream 2 can not legally be allowed to start operations right now.

    honovere on
    TryCatcher
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    In a unexpected twist it's the German Greens (who also have the foreign ministry) that want a more robust approach to Russia and support for the Ukraine, even with weapons. But social democrat chancellor might run foreign relations overruling foreign ministry, just like Merkel did before.

    Like the new foreign minister even came out and said that Nordstream 2 can not legally be allowed to start operations right now.

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahah. That's hilarious. Germany fought and cajoled their way to a sanctions waiver for keeping Nordstream 2 and NOW turns out that, surprise, giving Putin all that leverage was a bad idea on the first place.

  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    I really hate how Germany and The Netherlands decided to scale down local natural gas extraction due to mismanagement of local issues and are now creating global issues instead... which they then also mismanage.

    We used to have this idea that politicians play 5D chess, but I'm pretty sure they're still trying to figure out Tic-Tac-Toe.

  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    If I understand it correctly, Germany also vetoed NATO weapon deliveries to Ukraine. Reason being that Ukraine is an active conflict zone into which weapons should not be delivered.

    That's some ally to have. Sorry, we'll only give you guns if you don't need them.

    SmrtnikJragghen
  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Germany also called for a Nuclear power dangerous and doesn't want it as part of the EU's green energy drive.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/1/3/germany-calls-nuclear-power-dangerous-rejects-eu-plan

    Which I don't really get. They mention that the material leftovers will be dangerous for generations, but honestly I'm worried about making it through the next couple.

    DoodmannLord_AsmodeusSmrtnikboogedybooTryCatcherGiantGeek2020
  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited January 5
    God fucking dammit Germany with your NIMBY shit stop fucking this up please

    Reading that article. They're closing their remaining plants "amid concerns over the safety of the technology." Concerns from who, because it's not anyone who actually fucking knows anything about Nuclear Power. But you know what's totally safe? Relying entirely on oil and natural gas from a hostile foreign power, and continuing to pollute the environment. That's safe as shit.

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    I mean, it's not exactly NIMBY if you end up having to fill every back yard, is it?

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    I'm afraid I've missed your meaning

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    I just meant that you're gonna end up with a lot of nuclear waste, and most countries will store them somewhere in their own borders, or possibly force it on politically weaker neighbors.

    And what do you do with all that stuff?

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    I just meant that you're gonna end up with a lot of nuclear waste, and most countries will store them somewhere in their own borders, or possibly force it on politically weaker neighbors.

    And what do you do with all that stuff?

    Recycle it into more fuel or sell it to someone that will recycle it into more fuel.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    I just meant that you're gonna end up with a lot of nuclear waste, and most countries will store them somewhere in their own borders, or possibly force it on politically weaker neighbors.

    And what do you do with all that stuff?

    Recycle it into more fuel or sell it to someone that will recycle it into more fuel.

    that doesn't work ad infinitum, at some point you have just nuclear waste

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • Kayne Red RobeKayne Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    I just meant that you're gonna end up with a lot of nuclear waste, and most countries will store them somewhere in their own borders, or possibly force it on politically weaker neighbors.

    And what do you do with all that stuff?

    Recycle it into more fuel or sell it to someone that will recycle it into more fuel.

    that doesn't work ad infinitum, at some point you have just nuclear waste

    You are vastly overestimating the amount of waste nuclear power plants generate.

    TryCatcherLord_AsmodeusFencingsaxFiendishrabbitJusticeforPlutoOrcaPolaritieWyreinDoodmannBrainleech
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited January 5
    Besides the enviromental concerns, here's a question:

    On Ukraine's position, staring down a Russia facing a massive demographic crisis and hence, very desperate to grab whatever territory they can take to prevent their collapse, would you trust Germany to 100% have your back, given that, as mentioned, they depend on Russian gas to keep the lights on?

    Because I wouldn't. And such thing is reflected on the EU as a whole not being taken seriously as a NATO partner against Russia. The German voter and ruling coalition are free to choose whatever energy policy they wish. But given the way that shapes their foreign policy, they can't choose what the other countries decide to do about it.

    TryCatcher on
    StarZapperLord_AsmodeusSmrtnik
  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited January 6
    Assuming we could muster up the political will to properly recycle and reuse Nuclear Waste and create a proper storage space for it, by the time the unrecyclable remains ever became an actual storage/space issue we'll either all be dead or we'll be able to put it on the moon until we find another use for it.

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
    GiantGeek2020
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Besides the enviromental concerns, here's a question:

    On Ukraine's position, staring down a Russia facing a massive demographic crisis and hence, very desperate to grab whatever territory they can take to prevent their collapse, would you trust Germany to 100% have your back, given that, as mentioned, they depend on Russian gas to keep the lights on?

    Because I wouldn't. And such thing is reflected on the EU as a whole not being taken seriously as a NATO partner against Russia. The German voter and ruling coalition are free to choose whatever energy policy they wish. But given the way that shapes their foreign policy, they can't choose what the other countries decide to do about it.

    I wouldn't expect Germany to have Ukraine's back at all, cause Ukraine is not in the NATO.

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • StarZapperStarZapper Vermont, Bizzaro world.Registered User regular
    edited January 6
    I thought Europe actually had some proper nuclear waste storage sites, unlike the US? I confess I don't know that much about it, but it seems like Germany really shot themselves in the foot when they shut down their nuclear plants. Like strategically it seems like the worst thing they could've done, shut down their own green power and rely on their geopolitical enemy for essential energy supply. I don't get it.

    StarZapper on
    Lord_AsmodeusTryCatcherDoodmann
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Assuming we could muster up the political will to properly recycle and reuse Nuclear Waste and create a proper storage space for it, by the time the unrecyclable remains ever became an actual storage/space issue we'll either all be dead or we'll be able to put it on the moon until we find another use for it.

    This has been the line on storing nuclear waste pretty much from the very beginning

    "Just store it temporarily until FUTURE SOCIETY solves the problem, no biggie"

    Hasn't worked out so far.

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
    Kaputa
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    edited January 6
    The "problem" with nuclear waste storage is that the detractors set the bar at "can store this waste without leakage, indefinitely, without any further maintenance or funding" which is an impossible order.

    Storage that works for 50 or 100 years and then needs to be refurbished in some manner or another is perfectly fine.

    E: I mean shit, it's still far less cavalier than "keep on extracting carbon, fuck it!"

    Aioua on
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    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Aioua wrote: »
    The "problem" with nuclear waste storage is that the detractors set the bar at "can store this waste without leakage, indefinitely, without any further maintenance or funding" which is an impossible order.

    Storage that works for 50 or 100 years and then needs to be refurbished in some manner or another it's perfectly fine.

    and still you need to fix who's gonna pay for the refurbishment now and make sure it stays that way for 50-100 years, cause if you don't, it will absolutely lead to a catastrophe in the future, because nothing gets less attention than somebody else's problem

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    Aioua wrote: »
    The "problem" with nuclear waste storage is that the detractors set the bar at "can store this waste without leakage, indefinitely, without any further maintenance or funding" which is an impossible order.

    Storage that works for 50 or 100 years and then needs to be refurbished in some manner or another it's perfectly fine.

    and still you need to fix who's gonna pay for the refurbishment now and make sure it stays that way for 50-100 years, cause if you don't, it will absolutely lead to a catastrophe in the future, because nothing gets less attention than somebody else's problem

    honestly even if we just dumped all the waste in an old mining pit and did nothing to stop it from leaching into the groundwater it would be several orders of magnitude less of a catastrophe than global warming will be in the next 50 to 100 years

    meanwhile, we're still extracting carbon

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Assuming we could muster up the political will to properly recycle and reuse Nuclear Waste and create a proper storage space for it, by the time the unrecyclable remains ever became an actual storage/space issue we'll either all be dead or we'll be able to put it on the moon until we find another use for it.

    This has been the line on storing nuclear waste pretty much from the very beginning

    "Just store it temporarily until FUTURE SOCIETY solves the problem, no biggie"

    Hasn't worked out so far.

    I mean, it's actually worked shockingly well so far given that so many politicians give less than 0 shits about establishing proper storage for it. And like, we the future society didn't SOLVE the problem but we certainly were working on it, current reactor designs can recycle material that was previously unusable for anything, it's just we haven't built almost any new reactors in years. I think it's likely we'll either find a use for what is now waste at some point, or by the time storage becomes a real issue as I said, we can put them on a rock in space somewhere until we do figure it out. Like, Nuclear Reactors do not create that much waste in terms of pure mass. If we used way more Nuclear than we do now, it's not like we'd be swimming in waste in a decade.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
    FencingsaxDoodmann
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 6
    Also, it's not like Carbon energy doesn't have its own waste extracts.

    Fencingsax on
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  • ChanusChanus Benny Harvey -RIP-Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Also, it's not like Carbon energy doesn't have its own waste extracts.

    some even radioactive!

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
    Lord_AsmodeusFencingsaxIncenjucarStarZapperJragghenOrcaSmrtnikAiouaGiantGeek2020Kayne Red RobeDoodmannboogedybooBlackDragon480shryke
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    Is the weird protest/government resignation/whatever thing in kazakhstan on topic here?

    I'm trying to find more information, the articles I've read just say "the president has accepted the government's resignation" and seem to think that that doesn't need any further elaboration

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Is the weird protest/government resignation/whatever thing in kazakhstan on topic here?

    I'm trying to find more information, the articles I've read just say "the president has accepted the government's resignation" and seem to think that that doesn't need any further elaboration

    Kazakhstan isn't in the EU, though we don't have a thread for that region.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Middle East or Asian threads are probably the closest topics although neither is quite right.

  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    We had a "Post Soviets State" thread, we're people could talk about the former Soviet Republics.

    But then Ukraine died down and when it started up the thread had died and most talk to this one.

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Chanus wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Also, it's not like Carbon energy doesn't have its own waste extracts.

    some even radioactive!

    Isn't coal pretty high up on net radioactivity?

    DoodmannBlackDragon480Calica
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Besides the enviromental concerns, here's a question:

    On Ukraine's position, staring down a Russia facing a massive demographic crisis and hence, very desperate to grab whatever territory they can take to prevent their collapse, would you trust Germany to 100% have your back, given that, as mentioned, they depend on Russian gas to keep the lights on?

    Because I wouldn't. And such thing is reflected on the EU as a whole not being taken seriously as a NATO partner against Russia. The German voter and ruling coalition are free to choose whatever energy policy they wish. But given the way that shapes their foreign policy, they can't choose what the other countries decide to do about it.

    I wouldn't expect Germany to have Ukraine's back at all, cause Ukraine is not in the NATO.

    Ok. Team America running the show against Russian agression it is. Don't complain later.
    StarZapper wrote: »
    I thought Europe actually had some proper nuclear waste storage sites, unlike the US? I confess I don't know that much about it, but it seems like Germany really shot themselves in the foot when they shut down their nuclear plants. Like strategically it seems like the worst thing they could've done, shut down their own green power and rely on their geopolitical enemy for essential energy supply. I don't get it.

    Everything that I've read is the German public going from somewhat anti-nuclear to strongly anti-nuclear after Fukushima and being willing to vote out parliament members that were pro-nuclear, so the Merkel admin, that was kinda losing popularity back then, got cold feet.

    Yes, the country with one of the lowest risks of earthquakes on the planet and with a coastline not directly exposed to oceans is the one afraid of a second Fukushima. Bunch of contemptible NIMBY morons.

    Lord_AsmodeusFencingsaxenc0reIncenjucarStarZapperSmrtnikshryke
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    I mean, most of the momentum is Chernobyl, really, fukushima just pushed it along again.


    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
    honovere
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