A central problem with Noctis (and the way the game's narrative is structured) is that he only really shows emotion when
(spoilers up to endgame and DLC)
characters "close" to him die, like Regis, Lunafreya and that kid's uncle.
The big problem here is that these are characters that Noctis has had next to no screen-time or interaction with. The game wants us to grieve with Noctis but hasn't really given us any reason to! "Payoff without setup" I believe one youtube video on FFXV was titled about this. And it fits.
Cor dies in the flaming Insomnia DLC-level, and I feel like the developers did it solely so Noctis can be sad over someone dying that he had actual dialogue with.
Yes, there's also "You guys are the best" but that's so literally and figuratively isolated from the rest of the game that I feel like it lost a lot of impact with me
Yeah, "fuck you, Tidus" just means I'm a generic human being.
Because seriously, fuck you, Tidus. Boo fucking hoo, your superstar dad disappeared and you live the life of a sports god. Really feel a lot of sympathy for you as you tag along with the girl literally raised as a human sacrifice for her entire life but still loves everyone around her. Oh, and her dad died doing the same job she does. And she lives in a world of misery and pain if somebody doesn't manage to make this sacrifice every generation. And her last request is to have all her friends and family with her for her final journey.
But that’s his arc. Like, Tidus acknowledges this and commits fully to the cause because of Yuna’s Heroism. Tidus is one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters, and I think the success of FFX is largely due to his character arc. I get that he’s kinda whiny and immature, but good characters need flaws in order to have development.
I always liked Tidus, but The Best Friends reactions to him are priceless internet treasures.
Tidus the narrator is so much better than Tidus the character. Better dialogue, better delivery, better acting.
Narrator isn't pacing to match lips synced to JP. The code had issues with that iirc and they couldn't resync them? So the VA work suffered to not break the game.
As I understand it, it wasn't 'code issues' so much as they just didn't want to go to the extra time and trouble to resync voice clips and lips. For a game with a lot of dialogue that's not a minor bit of extra effort, especially after the fact. FFX was far from the only example, but most games before that had much less voice acting.
After X, they either decided to go to that extra effort, or just get all the languages done at the same time rather than just Japanese first.
And Narrator Tidus wasn't immune from it, either.
(withyunabymyside)
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
FFX, an example where you should really put money into hiring a decent writer. Adding the words "you know" to the tail end of every line of dialogue got old real fast.
I've known multiple people who talk like that IRL (specifically, Gen X-ers who were too old to be copying it from Japanese stuff). Since Synthesis brought up regional dialects, I'll add that I'm from the northeastern US.
That said, it's pretty common in anime & manga to give characters idiosyncratic verbal tics like that (eg Naruto saying "dattebayo", or just "-ttebayo" at the end of nearly every statement), though it often doesn't translate very well (NA dub of Naruto's tic becoming "Believe it!").
FFX, an example where you should really put money into hiring a decent writer. Adding the words "you know" to the tail end of every line of dialogue got old real fast.
Verbal tics at the end of sentences like that seem to be really common in a lot of anime, and they feel weirder in English. Especially in the first voiced FF.
I REALLY wonder why that is. Like is it at all an actual thing among real people? If not, what is the genesis of that trend?
I think this was kinda answered already but I’ll expand on it a bit. There are quite a few regional dialects in Japanese that use unique grammar and words. There’s even a weekly variety show called locals’ secrets (秘密ケンミンショウ) that has a segment dedicated to this. There are character traits associated with these accents too, and sometimes they’re heavily leaned upon.
So as a localizer you’re in a tough spot: you either need to add that differentiation in some way that probably lacks the same nuances, or you drop that aspect of the character completely. Which solution works for you is all up to your personal tastes because there isn’t a right answer. That being said I think the idiosyncrasies that result from trying to localize those accents are one of the charms of Japanese media.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited February 2020
And now we're getting into the classic dilemma of 'how do you localize a Kansai accent?' People from Osaka are strongly stereotyped in Japanese media, and there doesn't seem to be a particularly apt US analog to it; Most common options tend to either be a south eastern accent (see Ukyo in Ranma 1/2, or Ayumu "Osaka" Kasuga from Azumanga Daioh), or a New Yorker accent (...blanking on specific examples at the moment). Now, think about how differently we characterize people from those regions in the US.
I’m struggling to think of a FF character I hate. Sure some of them are much better written than others, and I’m pretty meh on a lot of the characters (especially the joke ones like Cait Sith and Quina) but there’s no one who really ruins the play experience for me. I’m not an especially big fan of FFXIII for instance; I think Lightning is overrated for all the same reasons that I think Cloud is. I hate how her backstory is revealed and the general structure & pacing of FFXIII as a whole, but I don’t hate any of the characters within. My brother on the other hand refuses to finish the game because of Hope, and I just don’t understand that feeling.
I think I basically hate everyone in 13 except Sazh.
And I dislike Tidus but like the rest of the cast of 10, and I dislike Vaan but like the rest of the cast of 12. 15 I haven't tried but just on the elevator pitch, surface level presentation of the party members they seem incredibly bland and boring. I basically like every other FF party member from FF4 onward, except maybe Amarant.
My problem with Tidus isn't that he's an obnoxious popular jock with daddy issues, it's that it takes him so damn long to figure out what Yuna's deal is, even though anyone with half a brain can tell she's almost always sad and that everyone around her is also, well, pretty damn sad. It's 100% "let's put on a brave face" and it simply doesn't resonate with him at all.
When he does finally figure it out, he's a lot better, but until that point he's pretty terrible to deal with.
That said, I love X's opening, specifically the time spent with the Al Bhed, and I really wish more games would lean hard into making the player feel like a stranger in an alien land.
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
I'm still working on my first playthrough of XV, only up to chapter 5 I think (holy hell some of these chapters are SUPER short). So far I don't hate anyone, the dialogue is a little weird or unnatural, and sometimes I find Noct's companions talking about plot developments as though they had actually been communicated to me in some fashion already when... no that didn't really happen. But so far they aren't annoying, I don't want to drop any of them into an active volcano. Yet. The only characters that annoy me are Cindy (come the fuck on with that stupid titties out mechanic design. I can even get a sticker for the car that's just Cindy sticking her ass out, like she's flying ass first down the highway) and that gem guy with the bad accent. Thankfully I don't have to interact with either of them very much.
Ardyn so far, though, is a dick. I assume that's by design.
My problem with Tidus isn't that he's an obnoxious popular jock with daddy issues, it's that it takes him so damn long to figure out what Yuna's deal is, even though anyone with half a brain can tell she's almost always sad and that everyone around her is also, well, pretty damn sad. It's 100% "let's put on a brave face" and it simply doesn't resonate with him at all.
When he does finally figure it out, he's a lot better, but until that point he's pretty terrible to deal with.
That said, I love X's opening, specifically the time spent with the Al Bhed, and I really wish more games would lean hard into making the player feel like a stranger in an alien land.
My first time through as a high schooler I could tell something was up, largely because the camera kept focusing on people's reactions, but otherwise I missed all the super blatant clues and was surprised by the reveal.
And now we're getting into the classic dilemma of 'how do you localize a Kansai accent?' People from Osaka are strongly stereotyped in Japanese media, and there doesn't seem to be a particularly apt US analog to it; Most common options tend to either be a south eastern accent (see Ukyo in Ranma 1/2, or Ayumu "Osaka" Kasuga from Azumanga Daioh), or a New Yorker accent (...blanking on specific examples at the moment). Now, think about how differently we characterize people from those regions in the US.
I think it was Azumanga Daioh that did this. Where yeah it has the stereotypical Kansai accent character. But it was also a rather specific regional Kansai dialect. So the dub production said they went the extra mile, not only giving her the stereotypical Texan accent, but a specific regional Texan accent to boot. ...Not that anybody could tell I bet. I just remember some dub out there actually bragging that they went to such weird effort.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
FFX, an example where you should really put money into hiring a decent writer. Adding the words "you know" to the tail end of every line of dialogue got old real fast.
I've known multiple people who talk like that IRL (specifically, Gen X-ers who were too old to be copying it from Japanese stuff). Since Synthesis brought up regional dialects, I'll add that I'm from the northeastern US.
That said, it's pretty common in anime & manga to give characters idiosyncratic verbal tics like that (eg Naruto saying "dattebayo", or just "-ttebayo" at the end of nearly every statement), though it often doesn't translate very well (NA dub of Naruto's tic becoming "Believe it!").
One thing I like about many manga/light novel characters having verbal tics at the end of their sentences is it helps the reader know exactly who's speaking absent other cues.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
zo to as Reno's tic really didn't make the cut to the original translation, eh? Dude came off fairly serious rather than laid back.
Yeah, "fuck you, Tidus" just means I'm a generic human being.
Because seriously, fuck you, Tidus. Boo fucking hoo, your superstar dad disappeared and you live the life of a sports god. Really feel a lot of sympathy for you as you tag along with the girl literally raised as a human sacrifice for her entire life but still loves everyone around her. Oh, and her dad died doing the same job she does. And she lives in a world of misery and pain if somebody doesn't manage to make this sacrifice every generation. And her last request is to have all her friends and family with her for her final journey.
But that’s his arc. Like, Tidus acknowledges this and commits fully to the cause because of Yuna’s Heroism. Tidus is one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters, and I think the success of FFX is largely due to his character arc. I get that he’s kinda whiny and immature, but good characters need flaws in order to have development.
Also he found out he doesn't actually exist which is pretty high on the list as far as existential crises go.
Yeah, "fuck you, Tidus" just means I'm a generic human being.
Because seriously, fuck you, Tidus. Boo fucking hoo, your superstar dad disappeared and you live the life of a sports god. Really feel a lot of sympathy for you as you tag along with the girl literally raised as a human sacrifice for her entire life but still loves everyone around her. Oh, and her dad died doing the same job she does. And she lives in a world of misery and pain if somebody doesn't manage to make this sacrifice every generation. And her last request is to have all her friends and family with her for her final journey.
But that’s his arc. Like, Tidus acknowledges this and commits fully to the cause because of Yuna’s Heroism. Tidus is one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters, and I think the success of FFX is largely due to his character arc. I get that he’s kinda whiny and immature, but good characters need flaws in order to have development.
Also he found out he doesn't actually exist which is pretty high on the list as far as existential crises go.
Am I the only one that was super irritated that he somehow showed up in the afterlife to high-five Auron. I thought that undermined this entire premise.
Mind you I'm fine with Yuna or whoever wishing him back into existence at some point, because that's still consistent with the theme.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
I never played X because the character design of Tidus makes my eyes vomit. I just can't stare at that abomination for 30+ hours. I'll turn into Sam Neill in Event Horizon.
I'm still of the opinion that X had the best ending of any Final Fantasy game. It's bittersweet and the sacrifice is poignant, but it's a strong ending. The X-2 perfect ending takes away from it (the normal X-2 ending is a far better ending narrativly), but independently it's the top of the charts.
I'm still of the opinion that X had the best ending of any Final Fantasy game. It's bittersweet and the sacrifice is poignant, but it's a strong ending. The X-2 perfect ending takes away from it (the normal X-2 ending is a far better ending narrativly), but independently it's the top of the charts.
IX has the best feel-good happy ending though.
RE: X's endings - the best/worst one was in that official 2.5 short story that was released around the time the X/X-2 bundle was coming out. The one where Tidus kicks kicks the bomb that looks like a blitzball, is killed in the explosion, which also decapitates him.
I wish I was joking, and I wish SE saved it for Gladio instead.
Yeah, "fuck you, Tidus" just means I'm a generic human being.
Because seriously, fuck you, Tidus. Boo fucking hoo, your superstar dad disappeared and you live the life of a sports god. Really feel a lot of sympathy for you as you tag along with the girl literally raised as a human sacrifice for her entire life but still loves everyone around her. Oh, and her dad died doing the same job she does. And she lives in a world of misery and pain if somebody doesn't manage to make this sacrifice every generation. And her last request is to have all her friends and family with her for her final journey.
But that’s his arc. Like, Tidus acknowledges this and commits fully to the cause because of Yuna’s Heroism. Tidus is one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters, and I think the success of FFX is largely due to his character arc. I get that he’s kinda whiny and immature, but good characters need flaws in order to have development.
Also he found out he doesn't actually exist which is pretty high on the list as far as existential crises go.
Am I the only one that was super irritated that he somehow showed up in the afterlife to high-five Auron. I thought that undermined this entire premise.
Mind you I'm fine with Yuna or whoever wishing him back into existence at some point, because that's still consistent with the theme.
We don't really see him in the actual afterlife, just seeing folks aa he fades out. It's not really inconsistent with the metaphysics of the world as he was essentially a ghost/zombie like Auron, he just skipped the being alive part. He might have actually existed at some point in Zanarkand, it's hard to tell. He was basically an Aeon.
Fun story, a friend in high school was so distraught over the ending she turned off her PS2 mid credits so she never saw the scene where Tidus was reborn in the sphere pool. When she heard me bring up in conversation at lunch she was stunned. She rebeat the game that night and was so happy the next day.
I'm still of the opinion that X had the best ending of any Final Fantasy game. It's bittersweet and the sacrifice is poignant, but it's a strong ending. The X-2 perfect ending takes away from it (the normal X-2 ending is a far better ending narrativly), but independently it's the top of the charts.
IX has the best feel-good happy ending though.
Well, other than the message from a presumably dead of old age Vivi.
We don't really see him in the actual afterlife, just seeing folks aa he fades out. It's not really inconsistent with the metaphysics of the world as he was essentially a ghost/zombie like Auron, he just skipped the being alive part. He might have actually existed at some point in Zanarkand, it's hard to tell. He was basically an Aeon.
The metaphysics of FFX are such that everyone is basically an Aeon, they just have no point of reference to be able to realize it. It would make sense if Spira itself was a summoned dimension like Zanarkand.
I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
Yeah, "fuck you, Tidus" just means I'm a generic human being.
Because seriously, fuck you, Tidus. Boo fucking hoo, your superstar dad disappeared and you live the life of a sports god. Really feel a lot of sympathy for you as you tag along with the girl literally raised as a human sacrifice for her entire life but still loves everyone around her. Oh, and her dad died doing the same job she does. And she lives in a world of misery and pain if somebody doesn't manage to make this sacrifice every generation. And her last request is to have all her friends and family with her for her final journey.
But that’s his arc. Like, Tidus acknowledges this and commits fully to the cause because of Yuna’s Heroism. Tidus is one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters, and I think the success of FFX is largely due to his character arc. I get that he’s kinda whiny and immature, but good characters need flaws in order to have development.
Also he found out he doesn't actually exist which is pretty high on the list as far as existential crises go.
Am I the only one that was super irritated that he somehow showed up in the afterlife to high-five Auron. I thought that undermined this entire premise.
Mind you I'm fine with Yuna or whoever wishing him back into existence at some point, because that's still consistent with the theme.
We don't really see him in the actual afterlife, just seeing folks aa he fades out. It's not really inconsistent with the metaphysics of the world as he was essentially a ghost/zombie like Auron, he just skipped the being alive part. He might have actually existed at some point in Zanarkand, it's hard to tell. He was basically an Aeon.
Fun story, a friend in high school was so distraught over the ending she turned off her PS2 mid credits so she never saw the scene where Tidus was reborn in the sphere pool. When she heard me bring up in conversation at lunch she was stunned. She rebeat the game that night and was so happy the next day.
Man, who didn't cry during X's ending?
That was my new saddest moment in gaming until I later played Shadow Hearts 2 (right after playing Shadow Hearts 1). That one still takes the cake.
I don't remember what OG Carby looked like. Isn't that kind of like 14's? All I remember is you have to be very careful when GISing carbuncle so you don't get pictures of the medical term.
The first carbuncle I remember is from ff6, and it looks more like a badger than its later renditions. From ff7 on it is a small bunny/fox creature with a gemstone on its forhead. This one if ff15 carbuncle with a much bigger head.
I don't remember what OG Carby looked like. Isn't that kind of like 14's? All I remember is you have to be very careful when GISing carbuncle so you don't get pictures of the medical term.
Carbuncle wasn't in FF7 at all, this is an original creation(do not steal) for the Remake.
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
You know, if something were to look too silly for the remake, I'm glad it's something easily avoidable as a summon.
That being said, I could land an airplane on that forehead jeeez.
The first carbuncle I remember is from ff6, and it looks more like a badger than its later renditions. From ff7 on it is a small bunny/fox creature with a gemstone on its forhead. This one if ff15 carbuncle with a much bigger head.
I could have sworn there was a reptilian looking Carbuncle in one of the 2d games, but the wiki's not backing me up on this. Am I crazy?
I don't remember what OG Carby looked like. Isn't that kind of like 14's? All I remember is you have to be very careful when GISing carbuncle so you don't get pictures of the medical term.
Carbuncle wasn't in FF7 at all, this is an original creation(do not steal) for the Remake.
it must be VIII then, cause the first 3d one I can remember was that era of graphics and it definitely wasn't a ffIX summon
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IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
There was a gnarly sort of beast Carbuncle in V. And yea, I completely forgot it wasn't in original VII.
Was in VIII and IX though.
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Just strange. If they wanted realistic, they got pretty close with FF15. The more I look at it the more it looks like some sort of prank or something. Someone accidentally extended the forehead too much in Photoshop and then did a bad copy paste job with the crystal.
Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
Posts
(spoilers up to endgame and DLC)
The big problem here is that these are characters that Noctis has had next to no screen-time or interaction with. The game wants us to grieve with Noctis but hasn't really given us any reason to! "Payoff without setup" I believe one youtube video on FFXV was titled about this. And it fits.
Cor dies in the flaming Insomnia DLC-level, and I feel like the developers did it solely so Noctis can be sad over someone dying that he had actual dialogue with.
Yes, there's also "You guys are the best" but that's so literally and figuratively isolated from the rest of the game that I feel like it lost a lot of impact with me
I always liked Tidus, but The Best Friends reactions to him are priceless internet treasures.
As I understand it, it wasn't 'code issues' so much as they just didn't want to go to the extra time and trouble to resync voice clips and lips. For a game with a lot of dialogue that's not a minor bit of extra effort, especially after the fact. FFX was far from the only example, but most games before that had much less voice acting.
After X, they either decided to go to that extra effort, or just get all the languages done at the same time rather than just Japanese first.
And Narrator Tidus wasn't immune from it, either.
(withyunabymyside)
I've known multiple people who talk like that IRL (specifically, Gen X-ers who were too old to be copying it from Japanese stuff). Since Synthesis brought up regional dialects, I'll add that I'm from the northeastern US.
That said, it's pretty common in anime & manga to give characters idiosyncratic verbal tics like that (eg Naruto saying "dattebayo", or just "-ttebayo" at the end of nearly every statement), though it often doesn't translate very well (NA dub of Naruto's tic becoming "Believe it!").
I think this was kinda answered already but I’ll expand on it a bit. There are quite a few regional dialects in Japanese that use unique grammar and words. There’s even a weekly variety show called locals’ secrets (秘密ケンミンショウ) that has a segment dedicated to this. There are character traits associated with these accents too, and sometimes they’re heavily leaned upon.
So as a localizer you’re in a tough spot: you either need to add that differentiation in some way that probably lacks the same nuances, or you drop that aspect of the character completely. Which solution works for you is all up to your personal tastes because there isn’t a right answer. That being said I think the idiosyncrasies that result from trying to localize those accents are one of the charms of Japanese media.
I think I basically hate everyone in 13 except Sazh.
And I dislike Tidus but like the rest of the cast of 10, and I dislike Vaan but like the rest of the cast of 12. 15 I haven't tried but just on the elevator pitch, surface level presentation of the party members they seem incredibly bland and boring. I basically like every other FF party member from FF4 onward, except maybe Amarant.
When he does finally figure it out, he's a lot better, but until that point he's pretty terrible to deal with.
That said, I love X's opening, specifically the time spent with the Al Bhed, and I really wish more games would lean hard into making the player feel like a stranger in an alien land.
Ardyn so far, though, is a dick. I assume that's by design.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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My first time through as a high schooler I could tell something was up, largely because the camera kept focusing on people's reactions, but otherwise I missed all the super blatant clues and was surprised by the reveal.
It me, the Tidus.
HA. HA. HA. HA.
I think it was Azumanga Daioh that did this. Where yeah it has the stereotypical Kansai accent character. But it was also a rather specific regional Kansai dialect. So the dub production said they went the extra mile, not only giving her the stereotypical Texan accent, but a specific regional Texan accent to boot. ...Not that anybody could tell I bet. I just remember some dub out there actually bragging that they went to such weird effort.
One thing I like about many manga/light novel characters having verbal tics at the end of their sentences is it helps the reader know exactly who's speaking absent other cues.
Thank god.
Am I the only one that was super irritated that he somehow showed up in the afterlife to high-five Auron. I thought that undermined this entire premise.
Mind you I'm fine with Yuna or whoever wishing him back into existence at some point, because that's still consistent with the theme.
IX has the best feel-good happy ending though.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
RE: X's endings - the best/worst one was in that official 2.5 short story that was released around the time the X/X-2 bundle was coming out. The one where Tidus kicks kicks the bomb that looks like a blitzball, is killed in the explosion, which also decapitates him.
I wish I was joking, and I wish SE saved it for Gladio instead.
We don't really see him in the actual afterlife, just seeing folks aa he fades out. It's not really inconsistent with the metaphysics of the world as he was essentially a ghost/zombie like Auron, he just skipped the being alive part. He might have actually existed at some point in Zanarkand, it's hard to tell. He was basically an Aeon.
Fun story, a friend in high school was so distraught over the ending she turned off her PS2 mid credits so she never saw the scene where Tidus was reborn in the sphere pool. When she heard me bring up in conversation at lunch she was stunned. She rebeat the game that night and was so happy the next day.
Well, other than the message from a presumably dead of old age Vivi.
The metaphysics of FFX are such that everyone is basically an Aeon, they just have no point of reference to be able to realize it. It would make sense if Spira itself was a summoned dimension like Zanarkand.
Man, who didn't cry during X's ending?
That was my new saddest moment in gaming until I later played Shadow Hearts 2 (right after playing Shadow Hearts 1). That one still takes the cake.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
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https://kotaku.com/what-the-hell-has-final-fantasy-vii-remake-done-to-carb-1841667917
https://blog.us.playstation.com/2020/02/13/new-final-fantasy-vii-remake-screenshots-show-red-xiii-side-quests-and-more/
Wat
May your forehead grow like the mighty oak.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Carbuncle wasn't in FF7 at all, this is an original creation(do not steal) for the Remake.
That being said, I could land an airplane on that forehead jeeez.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
I could have sworn there was a reptilian looking Carbuncle in one of the 2d games, but the wiki's not backing me up on this. Am I crazy?
Edit: Oh, it was Tactics. Of course.
it must be VIII then, cause the first 3d one I can remember was that era of graphics and it definitely wasn't a ffIX summon
Was in VIII and IX though.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
It's the Nick Cage of summon materia.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Also, these three materia are preorder bonuses, so if you don't preorder you'll never have occasion to see Carbuncle's fivehead.