They'll be may-koing the [Final Fantasy] Seven Remake a little while longer.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    We don't really see him in the actual afterlife, just seeing folks aa he fades out. It's not really inconsistent with the metaphysics of the world as he was essentially a ghost/zombie like Auron, he just skipped the being alive part. He might have actually existed at some point in Zanarkand, it's hard to tell. He was basically an Aeon.

    I went back and watched the cinematic and have to admit its actually kind of indeterminate. Because we don't see what happens to him after he high-fives Jecht. I think I was guided one way because it showed Jecht, a citizen of Dream Zanarkand (and therefore basically the same as Tidus), standing aside actual Unsent like Auron and that pope guy. When I would normally think the status of these psuedo-Aeons like Jecht and Tidus should be way less stable than Unsent, because Aeons require Fayth to sustain their form in a way that Unsent don't.

    However I dug into what I could read on FFX-2 and that makes it less indeterminate. Dream Zanarkand residents seems to hang around Farplane in some capacity, and Tidus himself can reach out to Yuna and lead her around. Aeons themselves appear to be formed out of pyreflies which get sent to the farplane, so the materials that made Tidus physical are still around, and seem operable and somewhat conscious in the farplane. To return to Spira they just need some Fayth to put the materials together, as the Fayth of Bahamut can do for you if you get the best ending.
    jothki wrote: »
    The metaphysics of FFX are such that everyone is basically an Aeon, they just have no point of reference to be able to realize it. It would make sense if Spira itself was a summoned dimension like Zanarkand.

    Aeon is defined by requiring Fayth and Summoners working together to make them material. Sure Spira could be secretly sustained by Fayth outside of the system, but as we never see them, it's a bit far to claim that everyone is "basically" an Aeon, as the vast majority of beings don't depend on any Fayth that we know of. You might as well say that we are all Aeons because we know about as much about such hypothetical Fayth.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited February 13
    We don't really see him in the actual afterlife, just seeing folks aa he fades out. It's not really inconsistent with the metaphysics of the world as he was essentially a ghost/zombie like Auron, he just skipped the being alive part. He might have actually existed at some point in Zanarkand, it's hard to tell. He was basically an Aeon.

    I went back and watched the cinematic and have to admit its actually kind of indeterminate. Because we don't see what happens to him after he high-fives Jecht. I think I was guided one way because it showed Jecht, a citizen of Dream Zanarkand (and therefore basically the same as Tidus), standing aside actual Unsent like Auron and that pope guy. When I would normally think the status of these psuedo-Aeons like Jecht and Tidus should be way less stable than Unsent, because Aeons require Fayth to sustain their form in a way that Unsent don't.

    However I dug into what I could read on FFX-2 and that makes it less indeterminate. Dream Zanarkand residents seems to hang around Farplane in some capacity, and Tidus himself can reach out to Yuna and lead her around. Aeons themselves appear to be formed out of pyreflies which get sent to the farplane, so the materials that made Tidus physical are still around, and seem operable and somewhat conscious in the farplane. To return to Spira they just need some Fayth to put the materials together, as the Fayth of Bahamut can do for you if you get the best ending.

    I still think it *super undermines* the theme of questioning whether you are an illusion if you retain "real" spirtual existence in the farplane, but that's how the universe seems to work. Meaning there was never a question of whether Tidus existed, just whether he was material.
    jothki wrote: »
    The metaphysics of FFX are such that everyone is basically an Aeon, they just have no point of reference to be able to realize it. It would make sense if Spira itself was a summoned dimension like Zanarkand.

    Aeon is defined by requiring Fayth and Summoners working together to make them material. Sure Spira could be secretly sustained by Fayth outside of the system, but as we never see them, it's a bit far to claim that everyone is "basically" an Aeon, as the vast majority of beings don't depend on any Fayth that we know of. You might as well say that we are all Aeons because we know about as much about such hypothetical Fayth.

    rahkeesh2000 on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited February 13
    Just because the question gets answered at a later point doesn't mean it wasn't valid.
    Which I guess itself is a metaphor for Tidus becoming a real boy.

    Also I like the implication of Spirans grappling with the holographic universe puzzle given that they've seen it exist already.

    Though for them Roko's Basilisk is probably boring compared to their actual basilisks.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    The metaphysics of FFX are such that everyone is basically an Aeon, they just have no point of reference to be able to realize it. It would make sense if Spira itself was a summoned dimension like Zanarkand.

    Aeon is defined by requiring Fayth and Summoners working together to make them material. Sure Spira could be secretly sustained by Fayth outside of the system, but as we never see them, it's a bit far to claim that everyone is "basically" an Aeon, as the vast majority of beings don't depend on any Fayth that we know of. You might as well say that we are all Aeons because we know about as much about such hypothetical Fayth.

    They collapse into Pyreflies when they're Sent, in the same way that Aeons do. That's not normal.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    The metaphysics of FFX are such that everyone is basically an Aeon, they just have no point of reference to be able to realize it. It would make sense if Spira itself was a summoned dimension like Zanarkand.

    Aeon is defined by requiring Fayth and Summoners working together to make them material. Sure Spira could be secretly sustained by Fayth outside of the system, but as we never see them, it's a bit far to claim that everyone is "basically" an Aeon, as the vast majority of beings don't depend on any Fayth that we know of. You might as well say that we are all Aeons because we know about as much about such hypothetical Fayth.

    They collapse into Pyreflies when they're Sent, in the same way that Aeons do. That's not normal.

    Well, they either get sent, and collapse into pyreflies...

    ...or they turn into fiends, get killed, and collapse into pyreflies.

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  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    I forget what the visual joke of Cactar is, but all I know is I crack a smile whenever I see him doing his thing.

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  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.

    This YouTube channel has a series of videos that showcase the combat systems in depth:


    I read this criticism of FFXIII recently that said its combat system had a lower floor to succeed than is required to enjoy. I don’t think that’s limited to just FFXIII though. I’d lump 12 & 15 in there too. That being said I did enjoy FFXV’s combat a lot as it became more proficient, and even more after watching that guy’s videos.

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  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    edited February 14
    I forget what the visual joke of Cactar is, but all I know is I crack a smile whenever I see him doing his thing.

    rrtelztcdr0v.jpeg

    italianranma on
    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Has anyone photoshopped Giant Forehead Cactuar yet?

  • BeezelBeezel There was no agreement little morsel..Registered User regular
    I know I'm late but yooo look at the melon on that lad.

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  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
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    Got some materia! Looks like a Bolt, All, Counter, Enemy Skill and ChocoMog? I can do some stuff with that.

    Planning on 3D printing a Buster Sword this year, got these in advance to see if they'll fit in the slots. They currently do not. D:

    Oh brilliant
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  • TalithTalith 変態という名の紳士 Miami, FLRegistered User regular
    Looks like they have new added shots where they try and sell the idea that the planet is dying thanks to the mako reactors.

    9e0txHT.gif
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  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    edited February 14
    They kept the playground the same. It is cool to see animated scenes on stuff that used to be static backgrounds.

    Krathoon on
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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »

    I need that on my Pro with HDR now.

    And all this talk of X has me installing the remaster of X and X-2 to get my tour of Spira on this weekend.

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  • drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.

    This YouTube channel has a series of videos that showcase the combat systems in depth:


    I read this criticism of FFXIII recently that said its combat system had a lower floor to succeed than is required to enjoy. I don’t think that’s limited to just FFXIII though. I’d lump 12 & 15 in there too. That being said I did enjoy FFXV’s combat a lot as it became more proficient, and even more after watching that guy’s videos.

    I didn't care for XV combat because it was like they tried to copy what The Witcher and other light action games like it, but did a worse job at it. At some point I just wanted to roll through the story and forget all about it. 💦

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  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I hope there are some Midgar sidequests or Remake will be short.

  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    There's an entire quest log that was revealed recently so yeah, there's side quests.

  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know Texas booniesRegistered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.

    This YouTube channel has a series of videos that showcase the combat systems in depth:


    I read this criticism of FFXIII recently that said its combat system had a lower floor to succeed than is required to enjoy. I don’t think that’s limited to just FFXIII though. I’d lump 12 & 15 in there too. That being said I did enjoy FFXV’s combat a lot as it became more proficient, and even more after watching that guy’s videos.

    I'm not sure if that's saying XIII's combat was too easy but if it is, I know someone who would cry hearing that.

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  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    There's an entire quest log that was revealed recently so yeah, there's side quests.

    I am hoping that there is a good chunk of new content that fleshes out Midgar.

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  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    There's an entire quest log that was revealed recently so yeah, there's side quests.

    I am hoping that there is a good chunk of new content that fleshes out Midgar.

    They've been saying for a while that this is how it will work. It's not just Midgar from the original, it's an entire full length game that presumably takes place in the Midgar section of the original. So expect a lot of new stuff.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.

    This YouTube channel has a series of videos that showcase the combat systems in depth:


    I read this criticism of FFXIII recently that said its combat system had a lower floor to succeed than is required to enjoy. I don’t think that’s limited to just FFXIII though. I’d lump 12 & 15 in there too. That being said I did enjoy FFXV’s combat a lot as it became more proficient, and even more after watching that guy’s videos.

    I didn't care for XV combat because it was like they tried to copy what The Witcher and other light action games like it, but did a worse job at it. At some point I just wanted to roll through the story and forget all about it. 💦

    My biggest problem is that it was the melee equivalent of "bullet spongey."

    So goddamned frustrating at times.

    Pailryder
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Krathoon wrote: »
    There's an entire quest log that was revealed recently so yeah, there's side quests.

    I am hoping that there is a good chunk of new content that fleshes out Midgar.

    They've been saying for a while that this is how it will work. It's not just Midgar from the original, it's an entire full length game that presumably takes place in the Midgar section of the original. So expect a lot of new stuff.

    I just want to point out that this particular statement that gets repeated doesn't actually mean anything.

    Some entire full length games are under 10 hours. Some are over 100 hours.

    I'm not saying this will be a 10 hour game obviously but that particular line legit doesn't mean anything. Especially since it's usually a response to people not liking it being part 1. The concern isn't it being full length, they can squeeze out however much or little they want want from it, but instead that it isn't a full story which well... it definitely isn't.

    desc wrote: »
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  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    Yeah. I am hoping it is not 10 hours and they are charging full price.

  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    Ilpala wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.

    This YouTube channel has a series of videos that showcase the combat systems in depth:


    I read this criticism of FFXIII recently that said its combat system had a lower floor to succeed than is required to enjoy. I don’t think that’s limited to just FFXIII though. I’d lump 12 & 15 in there too. That being said I did enjoy FFXV’s combat a lot as it became more proficient, and even more after watching that guy’s videos.

    I'm not sure if that's saying XIII's combat was too easy but if it is, I know someone who would cry hearing that.

    Not exactly. What I am saying is that you can beat FFXV by simply holding down the attack button with the sword and nothing else. Sure you're going to die a lot, but eventually you'll outlevel most of the content and learn to run from anything that you don't, and that's a very boring and terrible way to play. Sekiro is a game where you can't outlevel the combat; you either learn how it's supposed to work or give up. Once you've learned it in and out though you're probably already in love with it. Or maybe a masochist. But regardless you can't proceed in the game with only a surface level understanding.

    To use another example, how many people do you know who have played through a RTS game like Starcraft building only a single base and maximizing the efficiency of their resources rather than the minimizing the time required to win. People who take 50 minutes to beat a level in the single player, and who never advance past the easiest difficulty in the multiplayer. Are they enjoying the game? I dunno, maybe a little. But certainly they're not enjoying the game as much as they would if they understood the core concepts of RTS games. I speak from experience here: the first time I watched a youtube tutorial of how to play Starcraft and realized what the game was supposed to be like I suddenly had an entirely different, and more enjoyable, play experience.

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Holy fuck that opening gives me chills and completely drums up the memories of how goddamned hyped I was when it originally came out.

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  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    Apparently it's gonna be 2 full blu-ray discs. When they say "full length" I assume they mean "for a game in this genre" so I'm expecting 15-20+ hours but I could definitely be wrong!

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  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know Texas booniesRegistered User regular
    Ilpala wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.

    This YouTube channel has a series of videos that showcase the combat systems in depth:


    I read this criticism of FFXIII recently that said its combat system had a lower floor to succeed than is required to enjoy. I don’t think that’s limited to just FFXIII though. I’d lump 12 & 15 in there too. That being said I did enjoy FFXV’s combat a lot as it became more proficient, and even more after watching that guy’s videos.

    I'm not sure if that's saying XIII's combat was too easy but if it is, I know someone who would cry hearing that.

    Not exactly. What I am saying is that you can beat FFXV by simply holding down the attack button with the sword and nothing else. Sure you're going to die a lot, but eventually you'll outlevel most of the content and learn to run from anything that you don't, and that's a very boring and terrible way to play. Sekiro is a game where you can't outlevel the combat; you either learn how it's supposed to work or give up. Once you've learned it in and out though you're probably already in love with it. Or maybe a masochist. But regardless you can't proceed in the game with only a surface level understanding.

    To use another example, how many people do you know who have played through a RTS game like Starcraft building only a single base and maximizing the efficiency of their resources rather than the minimizing the time required to win. People who take 50 minutes to beat a level in the single player, and who never advance past the easiest difficulty in the multiplayer. Are they enjoying the game? I dunno, maybe a little. But certainly they're not enjoying the game as much as they would if they understood the core concepts of RTS games. I speak from experience here: the first time I watched a youtube tutorial of how to play Starcraft and realized what the game was supposed to be like I suddenly had an entirely different, and more enjoyable, play experience.

    I think I get it? But XIII specifically guarded against that. Most bosses in the game require you to engage with the system because you CAN'T just power through it; having the Crystarium gated behind progress prevented grinding past them.

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  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    Ilpala wrote: »
    Ilpala wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.

    This YouTube channel has a series of videos that showcase the combat systems in depth:


    I read this criticism of FFXIII recently that said its combat system had a lower floor to succeed than is required to enjoy. I don’t think that’s limited to just FFXIII though. I’d lump 12 & 15 in there too. That being said I did enjoy FFXV’s combat a lot as it became more proficient, and even more after watching that guy’s videos.

    I'm not sure if that's saying XIII's combat was too easy but if it is, I know someone who would cry hearing that.

    Not exactly. What I am saying is that you can beat FFXV by simply holding down the attack button with the sword and nothing else. Sure you're going to die a lot, but eventually you'll outlevel most of the content and learn to run from anything that you don't, and that's a very boring and terrible way to play. Sekiro is a game where you can't outlevel the combat; you either learn how it's supposed to work or give up. Once you've learned it in and out though you're probably already in love with it. Or maybe a masochist. But regardless you can't proceed in the game with only a surface level understanding.

    To use another example, how many people do you know who have played through a RTS game like Starcraft building only a single base and maximizing the efficiency of their resources rather than the minimizing the time required to win. People who take 50 minutes to beat a level in the single player, and who never advance past the easiest difficulty in the multiplayer. Are they enjoying the game? I dunno, maybe a little. But certainly they're not enjoying the game as much as they would if they understood the core concepts of RTS games. I speak from experience here: the first time I watched a youtube tutorial of how to play Starcraft and realized what the game was supposed to be like I suddenly had an entirely different, and more enjoyable, play experience.

    I think I get it? But XIII specifically guarded against that. Most bosses in the game require you to engage with the system because you CAN'T just power through it; having the Crystarium gated behind progress prevented grinding past them.

    I keep getting told there is a robust combat system in XIII, but my experience was that I made a few different... paradigms? I can't remember. Anyway I made a few different paradigms but largely it was buff/debuff/heal, Commando and 2 Ravagers and then 3 commandos I think? Maybe another one that was commando heal/heal? I don't remember. Regardless I never found XIII's combat complex or enjoyable and the skill floor was low enough that I didn't have any trouble with it regardless of never exploring more than what I just wrote. So at least for me the complaint was extremely relatable.

    If you're talking about the summon boss battles, those were definitely different, and I remember them being brick walls that I had to try a variety of paradigms with. That being said I don't think that's actually that engaging because those fights were more outliers than training tutorials for the rest of the game.

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  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    Ilpala wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.

    This YouTube channel has a series of videos that showcase the combat systems in depth:


    I read this criticism of FFXIII recently that said its combat system had a lower floor to succeed than is required to enjoy. I don’t think that’s limited to just FFXIII though. I’d lump 12 & 15 in there too. That being said I did enjoy FFXV’s combat a lot as it became more proficient, and even more after watching that guy’s videos.

    I'm not sure if that's saying XIII's combat was too easy but if it is, I know someone who would cry hearing that.

    I think they're saying that you can get through the game without engaging with it in an interesting way.

    Which is very believable, lots of games have lower difficulty levels that don't require you to engage with the systems fully.

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  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    More JRPGs need difficulty settings.

    Having piles of systems that can be easily ignored to beat the game is incredibly common of the genre.

    desc wrote: »
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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Renzo wrote: »
    Ilpala wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.

    This YouTube channel has a series of videos that showcase the combat systems in depth:


    I read this criticism of FFXIII recently that said its combat system had a lower floor to succeed than is required to enjoy. I don’t think that’s limited to just FFXIII though. I’d lump 12 & 15 in there too. That being said I did enjoy FFXV’s combat a lot as it became more proficient, and even more after watching that guy’s videos.

    I'm not sure if that's saying XIII's combat was too easy but if it is, I know someone who would cry hearing that.

    I think they're saying that you can get through the game without engaging with it in an interesting way.

    Which is very believable, lots of games have lower difficulty levels that don't require you to engage with the systems fully.

    For most fights it's the difference between finishing it in 2 minutes vs 10 seconds. Technically doesn't matter, especially if you don't care either way. But it's still there.

    And then there are the super fights and even the cie'th fights if you want 5 stars on them, which absolutely require you to engage with the whole paradigm shifting mechanic.

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    XIII was the only one of that console generation I beat, but I never really found the combat system fun.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Krathoon wrote: »
    There's an entire quest log that was revealed recently so yeah, there's side quests.

    I am hoping that there is a good chunk of new content that fleshes out Midgar.

    They've been saying for a while that this is how it will work. It's not just Midgar from the original, it's an entire full length game that presumably takes place in the Midgar section of the original. So expect a lot of new stuff.

    I just want to point out that this particular statement that gets repeated doesn't actually mean anything.

    Some entire full length games are under 10 hours. Some are over 100 hours.

    I'm not saying this will be a 10 hour game obviously but that particular line legit doesn't mean anything. Especially since it's usually a response to people not liking it being part 1. The concern isn't it being full length, they can squeeze out however much or little they want want from it, but instead that it isn't a full story which well... it definitely isn't.

    Pretty sure they meant full-length Final Fantasy

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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.

    This YouTube channel has a series of videos that showcase the combat systems in depth:


    I read this criticism of FFXIII recently that said its combat system had a lower floor to succeed than is required to enjoy. I don’t think that’s limited to just FFXIII though. I’d lump 12 & 15 in there too. That being said I did enjoy FFXV’s combat a lot as it became more proficient, and even more after watching that guy’s videos.

    I didn't care for XV combat because it was like they tried to copy what The Witcher and other light action games like it, but did a worse job at it. At some point I just wanted to roll through the story and forget all about it. 💦

    My biggest problem is that it was the melee equivalent of "bullet spongey."

    So goddamned frustrating at times.

    Yeah, the moves you had available were awesome and the variety was great, but it never felt like there was any oompf behind them.

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Renzo wrote: »
    Ilpala wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.

    This YouTube channel has a series of videos that showcase the combat systems in depth:


    I read this criticism of FFXIII recently that said its combat system had a lower floor to succeed than is required to enjoy. I don’t think that’s limited to just FFXIII though. I’d lump 12 & 15 in there too. That being said I did enjoy FFXV’s combat a lot as it became more proficient, and even more after watching that guy’s videos.

    I'm not sure if that's saying XIII's combat was too easy but if it is, I know someone who would cry hearing that.

    I think they're saying that you can get through the game without engaging with it in an interesting way.

    Which is very believable, lots of games have lower difficulty levels that don't require you to engage with the systems fully.

    For most fights it's the difference between finishing it in 2 minutes vs 10 seconds. Technically doesn't matter, especially if you don't care either way. But it's still there.

    And then there are the super fights and even the cie'th fights if you want 5 stars on them, which absolutely require you to engage with the whole paradigm shifting mechanic.

    Yeah the latter cieths and the fucking Adamantoise required robust saboteurs and loads of shifts. I much prefer the crystarium/dressphere hybrid system from Lightning Returns. The story was completely batshit, but the combat was fun as hell.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Krathoon wrote: »
    There's an entire quest log that was revealed recently so yeah, there's side quests.

    I am hoping that there is a good chunk of new content that fleshes out Midgar.

    They've been saying for a while that this is how it will work. It's not just Midgar from the original, it's an entire full length game that presumably takes place in the Midgar section of the original. So expect a lot of new stuff.

    I just want to point out that this particular statement that gets repeated doesn't actually mean anything.

    Some entire full length games are under 10 hours. Some are over 100 hours.

    I'm not saying this will be a 10 hour game obviously but that particular line legit doesn't mean anything. Especially since it's usually a response to people not liking it being part 1. The concern isn't it being full length, they can squeeze out however much or little they want want from it, but instead that it isn't a full story which well... it definitely isn't.

    Pretty sure they meant full-length Final Fantasy

    Which also varies by an absurd amount.

    Like personally I would say if the main story for a game of this type was ~20 hours it would be disappointingly short no matter how much side content there is.

    40 is like the min expectation for me to say this feels ok but I still hope for a decent amount of side content.

    Ideally it's a good 60 hours with enough optional stuff to push way past that.

    It could be any of those! But that still makes that description not helpful at all. It can mean anything.

    Everyone has a different idea on what gives them a complete experience and you can find examples to use for any of those size games.

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
    italianranma
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    Was it just me or did components in ff13 not make allot of sense?

  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    You know, thinking about this a little more in depth that criticism (games having a lower floor to play through than enjoy) is hardly some sort of universal truth; at best it’s a maxim. What an individual enjoys about a particular style of gameplay is completely subjective, but I think it’s still useful idea in regards to game design: namely that your gameplay should be engaging at its most basic level and transparent at it’s highest. “Hidden mechanics” are usually just bugs and/or edge-cases that devs didn’t really design to in my experiences.

    This is hardly a complete list, but off the top of my head here are my top 10 games who I enjoy for the gameplay:
    1. Sekiro
    2. Shadows Over Mordor
    3. X-COM2
    4. Dragon’s Dogma (online was even better)
    5. Dark Souls series
    6. Octopath Traveler
    7. Hollow Knight
    8. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
    9. Resident Evil 6
    10. Final Fantasy XV

    So couple caveats: I didn’t put any multiplayer games on this list because it’s difficult to decern how much enjoyment came from the gameplay vice multiplayer experience as a whole, but if I were listing things out by time, WoW, League of Legends, Halo 3, and Space Marine (of all things) would feature prominently. As I was making this list I thought about how many of these games did I continue to play even after I beat them simply because I liked the gameplay; this list is not reflective of my own personal top 10 games. I don’t recommend Octopath or Final Fantasy XV because I think they fail to tell an engaging story, and as RPGs that should be the primary goal. On the other hand, Final Fantasy VI an X are probably in my top 3, but I don’t play those two for the gameplay.

    So what can I learn from reflecting on my list? Obviously I’ve got a thing for action games, but there’s also some prominite strategy & RPGs on that list so it’s not simply a genre thing. I like simple and straightforward mechanics (well, aside from the Dark Souls series) and games that have some sort of active, timing-based defense rate very highly. I also value games that require me to make moment by moment tactical decisions (Sekiro/Shadows Over Mordor) more than strategic ones (Dark Souls series). Finally, I will play a game solely for the gameplay (Octopath/RE6/FFXV) but I have difficulty playing through one just for the story (Last of Us).

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    Renzo wrote: »
    Ilpala wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I am starting to get a handle on this combat system. Basically I need to Warpstrike, and then just hold down the defend trigger until I wrap back out of combat. And then spam tech gauge combos.

    This YouTube channel has a series of videos that showcase the combat systems in depth:


    I read this criticism of FFXIII recently that said its combat system had a lower floor to succeed than is required to enjoy. I don’t think that’s limited to just FFXIII though. I’d lump 12 & 15 in there too. That being said I did enjoy FFXV’s combat a lot as it became more proficient, and even more after watching that guy’s videos.

    I'm not sure if that's saying XIII's combat was too easy but if it is, I know someone who would cry hearing that.

    I think they're saying that you can get through the game without engaging with it in an interesting way.

    Which is very believable, lots of games have lower difficulty levels that don't require you to engage with the systems fully.

    For most fights it's the difference between finishing it in 2 minutes vs 10 seconds. Technically doesn't matter, especially if you don't care either way. But it's still there.

    And then there are the super fights and even the cie'th fights if you want 5 stars on them, which absolutely require you to engage with the whole paradigm shifting mechanic.

    Yeah the latter cieths and the fucking Adamantoise required robust saboteurs and loads of shifts. I much prefer the crystarium/dressphere hybrid system from Lightning Returns. The story was completely batshit, but the combat was fun as hell.

    At what point though do those enemies show up? 30 hours in? 40 hours in? I mean, FFXIII’s combat system doesn’t even kick in until you’ve been playing for 4 hours. Sekiro requires you to be fluent in it’s gameplay at about the 3-4 hour mark (if you’re dying a lot and doing a 20-hour playthrough). Maybe earlier if you take on Lady Butterfly before Genichiro. X-COM will take your lunch money in the first mission if you don’t understand the core gameplay.

    I don’t want to keep punching down on FFXIII, because ultimately I do agree that it has a good story and characters and while I don’t enjoy the gameplay I understand that has some serious depth to it that ties directly into the narrative themes of the game. My number 1 complaint whenever I talk about FFXIII is in the presentation and pacing of these systems: If I’m at 20 hours and not yet experiencing any enjoyment from the game because it’s too simple to playthrough and not straightforward enough about its depth than that’s a considerable design flaw.

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
    BlackDragon480
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