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[GoT/ASoIaF]: Our Watch has Ended (Open Spoilers)

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  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    I would really love to see the bankers from the Iron Bank doing a "Burn After Reading" style follow-up to the ending.

    For those unfamiliar with it:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=SlA9hmrC8DU



    Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    wazilla wrote: »
    Did it ever get out that Olenna was responsible for poisoning Joffrey? Or did Jaime keep that one to himself?

    If so it's kinda hilarious that Tyrion ends up hand again.

    In the books it's somewhat hinted at that LF actually meant to poison Tyrion, but rolled with it as a happy accident once it ended up being Joffrey with Tyrion getting blamed anyway

    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Eddy wrote: »
    wazilla wrote: »
    Did it ever get out that Olenna was responsible for poisoning Joffrey? Or did Jaime keep that one to himself?

    If so it's kinda hilarious that Tyrion ends up hand again.

    In the books it's somewhat hinted at that LF actually meant to poison Tyrion, but rolled with it as a happy accident once it ended up being Joffrey with Tyrion getting blamed anyway

    I don't remember that.

    I also don't know why Olenna would have wanted to kill Tyrion?

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Sorry guys, I have a confession to make. This last season was interactive for me. I thought it was for everyone, so I just kept making the worst choices on purpose for funzies. I didn't know that my interactive copy actually impact the show for everyone...

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Drez wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    wazilla wrote: »
    Did it ever get out that Olenna was responsible for poisoning Joffrey? Or did Jaime keep that one to himself?

    If so it's kinda hilarious that Tyrion ends up hand again.

    In the books it's somewhat hinted at that LF actually meant to poison Tyrion, but rolled with it as a happy accident once it ended up being Joffrey with Tyrion getting blamed anyway

    I don't remember that.

    I also don't know why Olenna would have wanted to kill Tyrion?

    I could believe Olenna intending Oberyn to be suspected, but it's landing at Tyrion's feet being the happy accident.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • JuliusJulius Captain of Serenity on my shipRegistered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    My frustration with Sansa's character is that her coronation and rule is based entirely on her Stark name. I wish they'd given a better reason.

    I don't know what a better reason would look like, though I think they dropped the ball on underlining the fact that female heads of households has become acceptable at the end of the war. Danearys would have fully legitimized the break with primogeniture though, that being the base of her claim.

    That said the Starks have been lords of Winterfel and the North for much longer than any other house, so it makes sense that the Stark name itself is enough for acceptance.

  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkIczwc7Hz8

    22 minutes but w/e

    Olenna in the show outright confesses a couple times but the text is much more vague about whether she knew about the plot at all.

    Obviously the tinfoil theory is that every single person at the wedding put their own poison into the wine goblet

    Eddy on
    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Drez wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    wazilla wrote: »
    Did it ever get out that Olenna was responsible for poisoning Joffrey? Or did Jaime keep that one to himself?

    If so it's kinda hilarious that Tyrion ends up hand again.

    In the books it's somewhat hinted at that LF actually meant to poison Tyrion, but rolled with it as a happy accident once it ended up being Joffrey with Tyrion getting blamed anyway

    I don't remember that.

    I also don't know why Olenna would have wanted to kill Tyrion?

    I could believe Olenna intending Oberyn to be suspected, but it's landing at Tyrion's feet being the happy accident.

    No, that was engineered. He hired the dwarf performers specifically to rile up Joffrey and Tyrion.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    Sorry guys, I have a confession to make. This last season was interactive for me. I thought it was for everyone, so I just kept making the worst choices on purpose for funzies. I didn't know that my interactive copy actually impact the show for everyone...

    The net increase in wheels ruling Westeros should have been a dead giveaway.

  • JuliusJulius Captain of Serenity on my shipRegistered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    Capt Howdy wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Sansa has the North leave the seven kingdoms in order to not bend the knee even though a Stark sits on the Iron Throne and she could have exerted far more influence and control and better the conditions of the North by staying involved politically.
    Just... what?
    I'm not sure that would have gone down too well, though!
    Sansa: ... so, long story short, I know we've been fighting for our independence since like halfway through the first season, but I bent the knee to the King of the Seven Kingdoms.
    Northern Lords: ...
    S: But it's okay because he's my brother!
    NL: Ah, very good. He was commander of the Night's Watch. He knows the north and will be a fine ruler.
    S: What? No, Jon went north to play with his dog. I'm talking about my other brother, Bran ... the Broken.
    NL: Ah. Well, he may be defenceless, but at least he'll have the finest assassin known in the world on hand to protect him.
    S: Arya? No, she's taking her gap year and went off in a boat somewhere. Possibly with Gendry.
    NL: ... OK. Well, at least the Lannisters have all been destroyed.
    S: ... Tyrion is still alive and is serving as Hand of the King.
    NL: ... Right, well, at least there aren't any sell swords with low morals who have proven time and again that their loyalty can be bought.
    S: ... I don't know how to tell you this ...

    What? No. Bronn is done with the sell sword shit, and is perfectly content where he is. There are only, what, two positions higher than his? Dude wants neither. And he has the fairest castle of them all. Dude has gone legit. No more backstabbing to get gold coins for him.

    I mean, fuck with his money you'll end up getting got. But that's on anyone dumb enough to mess with his money.

    Yeah anyone buying him would have to offer more than Lord of Highgarden and Master of Coin, which is pretty hard.

    Also I doubt there will be much enthusiasm for plotting against the guy who can see the past and see through animals.

    Sure, if they want to buy him wholesale.

    But if all you want is for him to do one specific thing for you, you can just go to him with a sack full of gold coins and there's a pretty decent chance he'll do it.

    A sack of gold is really not that much to him now, and I don't know to what extent it would matter.

    like, yeah bribing and doing favours will work with him, but that's not really a break with tradition. That's just the little game all nobles play.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    Sorry guys, I have a confession to make. This last season was interactive for me. I thought it was for everyone, so I just kept making the worst choices on purpose for funzies. I didn't know that my interactive copy actually impact the show for everyone...

    The net increase in wheels ruling Westeros should have been a dead giveaway.

    Is this a reference to my Christmas art?

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
  • JuliusJulius Captain of Serenity on my shipRegistered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    Eddy wrote: »
    wazilla wrote: »
    Did it ever get out that Olenna was responsible for poisoning Joffrey? Or did Jaime keep that one to himself?

    If so it's kinda hilarious that Tyrion ends up hand again.

    In the books it's somewhat hinted at that LF actually meant to poison Tyrion, but rolled with it as a happy accident once it ended up being Joffrey with Tyrion getting blamed anyway

    I don't remember that.

    I also don't know why Olenna would have wanted to kill Tyrion?

    Yeah the whole point is having her granddaughter not marrying a psycho. And Tyrion getting the blame was also the point.

    iirc the explanation is where Littlefinger also does his "chaos is a ladder" bit pointing out that any outcome would have been to his advantage. A dead Tyrion is also fine.

  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Dynagrip wrote: »
    Dynagrip wrote: »
    The Littlefinger 3-dimensional chess move of marrying Sansa off to Ramsay never made sense to me.

    It wasn’t supposed to be her and does that stupid thing visual media sometimes does when it cuts out a book character and replacing them with an already established character so we don’t need to waste dialogue telling us who X is.

    Not saying it was done well, but that happens often when books with bajillions of characters are adopted to visual mediums.
    In the books it was an Arya look-alike or something, correct?
    Not even, just a common Northern girl, one of Sansa's friends and the daughter of one of Ned's retainers that came south that Littlefinger scooped up in the aftermath of Ned's death

    They specifically had to have Theon on hand to say "yep it's Arya" to lend it legitimacy

    uH3IcEi.png
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    The text is really clear about the purple wedding. Littlefinger talked a big game to sell the Tyrells on the marriage while at the same time creating rumors about the truth of how monsterous Joffrey was. He also put forth the whole Loras on the kingsguard to make the whole implication about a second kingslayer in the works if Loras saw Joff mistreat Margaery.

    So he used Dontos to set up the hairnet and Olenna pulled the trigger. He got Joffrey to OK the dwarf performers because he knew that Joffrey was a petty little shit and the whole thing would spark a conflict between Tyrion and Joffrey at the critical moment.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    bs16aucayjct.jpeg

    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Seal wrote: »
    wazilla wrote: »
    Did it ever get out that Olenna was responsible for poisoning Joffrey? Or did Jaime keep that one to himself?

    If so it's kinda hilarious that Tyrion ends up hand again.

    yes she told Jaime and Jaime told Cercei

    Yup. And given Cersei's hatred for Tyrion, and that the actual perpetrator already faced justice, there's an almost zero percent chance that she told anyone else, and zero that she'd have told anyone she knows wouldn't keep the secret.

    That's what I meant in my earlier post, about people outside of the small group that trusted Tyrion, that noone else likely would.

    While we, the audience, know better, to most of the people in Westeros, Tyrion is responsible for, at the very least...
    - Killing a king (who was also his nephew).
    - Convicted in a trial by combat.
    - Killing his father.
    - With Varys, responsible for bringing Dany to their shores. Varys was already punished.
    - Let her and her troops go bananas.
    - Broke his faith with his liege-lady (hey, if Jaime had to live under a shit reputation regardless of the nutsiness of his liege-lord, you can bet the nobles and commonfolk will hold it against Tyrion) and conspired to have her killed.
    - is a dwarf/imp/demon monkey (not an issue to us, but definitely an issue to them).

    I just don't buy people accepting Tyrion as someone worth saving. If Jon's not going to be the superficial scapegoat execution for the destruction of King's Landing, then it was going to be Tyrion.

    Also, still don't buy Drogon or Grey Worm not offing, or at least making a determined effort, to off Jon. Doesn't have to be successful if they want to give Jon a happy ending.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Drez wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Sorry guys, I have a confession to make. This last season was interactive for me. I thought it was for everyone, so I just kept making the worst choices on purpose for funzies. I didn't know that my interactive copy actually impact the show for everyone...

    The net increase in wheels ruling Westeros should have been a dead giveaway.

    Is this a reference to my Christmas art Master-Class in Reindeer Anatomy?

    Indeed

    My biggest disappointment this season was never getting to land a solid "Master of Wheels" joke.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Of all the spinoffs why are none of them about Dread Captain Arya?

  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Of all the spinoffs why are none of them about Dread Captain Arya?

    Sounds like she really doesn’t want to be famous anymore

    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Of all the spinoffs why are none of them about Dread Captain Arya?

    I am Arya of House Stark. You will board my boat, sail across the ocean, and restore the heart of Valyria.

  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    Theory: it was a west world mashup and Bran is the guest

  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Holy shit, Edmure over the Iron Islands, that's cruel even for Westeros. Bran is a monster.

    And of course Drogon would go full Trogdor.

    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    I think this show is now both “problematic” and artistically bad. It’s not the first show to really have problems with endings. Battlestar Galactica comes to mind - what an incoherent mess that was. Endings are the hardest part of any story.

    They really arent. So long as you understand your story and theme.

    Like; the ending should write itself really. Youve got characters that, by that point, have known motivations and capabilities and goals and desires abd you simply pick and choose based on your theme. Its getting there that is the hard part.

    Danys heel turn is fine really.(ignoring how badly it was done) So long as the person who “wins” does it with ruthlessness and guile. This is because the Theme of GoT has been three things 1)the small folk do not care about the game (and suffer, but not as a result) 2) honesty and truthfulness and loyalty and love lose you the game 3) the game never ends, there is no end of history. Every winter ends and so does every summer (but you still have to plan if you want to make it through)

    This last bit is the core metaphor. Winters last an indeterminate amount of time. You prepare for the winter so as to endure it in the same way you should have been preparing for the game of thrones in order to endure because you dont know how long its going to last or when its going to arrive.

    If Cercei had won or Dany had won or if no one had won and the land was split into warring factions fending for themselves it would have been fine. So long as it didnt end with a “good person” on the Throne, because you cannot advance while being honest in competition with people who arent. Because if you didnt plan for the winter you will not sustain through it.

    Of course... this requires the show writers to like... understand the show thry run

    wbBv3fj.png
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Holy shit, Edmure over the Iron Islands, that's cruel even for Westeros. Bran is a monster.

    And of course Drogon would go full Trogdor.

    The iron islands are already under the rule of the Riverlands though.

    They aren't one of the seven kingdoms.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Seal wrote: »
    wazilla wrote: »
    Did it ever get out that Olenna was responsible for poisoning Joffrey? Or did Jaime keep that one to himself?

    If so it's kinda hilarious that Tyrion ends up hand again.

    yes she told Jaime and Jaime told Cercei

    Yup. And given Cersei's hatred for Tyrion, and that the actual perpetrator already faced justice, there's an almost zero percent chance that she told anyone else, and zero that she'd have told anyone she knows wouldn't keep the secret.

    That's what I meant in my earlier post, about people outside of the small group that trusted Tyrion, that noone else likely would.

    While we, the audience, know better, to most of the people in Westeros, Tyrion is responsible for, at the very least...
    - Killing a king (who was also his nephew).
    - Convicted in a trial by combat.
    - Killing his father.
    - With Varys, responsible for bringing Dany to their shores. Varys was already punished.
    - Let her and her troops go bananas.
    - Broke his faith with his liege-lady (hey, if Jaime had to live under a shit reputation regardless of the nutsiness of his liege-lord, you can bet the nobles and commonfolk will hold it against Tyrion) and conspired to have her killed.
    - is a dwarf/imp/demon monkey (not an issue to us, but definitely an issue to them).

    I just don't buy people accepting Tyrion as someone worth saving. If Jon's not going to be the superficial scapegoat execution for the destruction of King's Landing, then it was going to be Tyrion.

    Also, still don't buy Drogon or Grey Worm not offing, or at least making a determined effort, to off Jon. Doesn't have to be successful if they want to give Jon a happy ending.

    Two things, both ending at Bran

    Being Hand is a punishment for Tyrion
    Bran knows who killed Joff and everyone believes Bran

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Holy shit, Edmure over the Iron Islands, that's cruel even for Westeros. Bran is a monster.

    And of course Drogon would go full Trogdor.

    The iron islands are already under the rule of the Riverlands though.

    They aren't one of the seven kingdoms.

    Eh, that's an oversimplification. The Iron Islands were never under the rule of the Riverlands. It was the other way around. Taking the most recent history before the Targaryen War of Conquest, at one point House Hoare, who were ironborn, ruled over the Iron Islands and conquered the Riverlands (which were always a distinct cultural and social entity), and built Harrenhal as their capital.

    When Harrenhal was destroyed during Aegon's Conquest, the Iron Islands and the Riverlands were split by the Targaryens, with each having their own Great Houses. House Tully, which was elevated to a Great House for that reason, never ruled over the Iron Islands. By the time of Robert's Rebellion, the Iron Islands were always considered a separate region, distinct from the Riverlands or the North. It's for this reason that Theon is kept as a ward in Winterfell - to keep House Greyjoy (the Great House of the Iron Islands) in check.

    The "Seven Kingdoms" are an ancient historical artifact that haven't aligned with the feudal power structure in Westeros for centuries (and in some cases, millenia).

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    I'm curious to see how GoT ages in the next few years

  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    I'm curious to see how GoT ages in the next few years

    Like fine wine.

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    I'm curious to see how GoT ages in the next few years

    Like fine wine.

    Moldering in a cellar while turning to vinegar?

    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    I'm curious to see how GoT ages in the next few years

    Depends on how HBO manages the Bran.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    I'm curious to see how GoT ages in the next few years

    Like fine wine.

    Moldering in a cellar while turning to vinegar?

    Example:

    Iron Man 3 was widely panned by internet nerds due to things and everyone was sure it would always be horrible like Thor 2.

    Fast forward to now and quite a few people like it just fine, much to the surprise of those who could've sworn the internet already passed judgment.

  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    I'm curious to see how GoT ages in the next few years

    Like fine wine.

    Moldering in a cellar while turning to vinegar?

    Example:

    Iron Man 3 was widely panned by internet nerds due to things and everyone was sure it would always be horrible like Thor 2.

    Fast forward to now and quite a few people like it just fine, much to the surprise of those who could've sworn the internet already passed judgment.
    I just watched Thor 2 it was a fine action movie. I also just watched iron man 3. It was better but they were fun movies.

  • Baron DirigibleBaron Dirigible Registered User regular
    I'm curious to see how GoT ages in the next few years

    Like fine wine.

    Moldering in a cellar while turning to vinegar?

    Example:

    Iron Man 3 was widely panned by internet nerds due to things and everyone was sure it would always be horrible like Thor 2.

    Fast forward to now and quite a few people like it just fine, much to the surprise of those who could've sworn the internet already passed judgment.
    “This season has been terrible” isn’t a criticism limited to internet nerds, though.

  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    Having binged the entire series before this season, Game of Throne's will age just as I'd expect it to. The first 5 seasons will be great. Amazing acting, mostly coherent plotting, and not an over reliance on special effects. Season 6 was still mostly great but you could start to see the cracks. Season 7 and 8, will continue to be bad. It's not like time and distance is going to make the writing better.

    Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    I'm curious to see how GoT ages in the next few years

    Like fine wine.

    Moldering in a cellar while turning to vinegar?

    Example:

    Iron Man 3 was widely panned by internet nerds due to things and everyone was sure it would always be horrible like Thor 2.

    Fast forward to now and quite a few people like it just fine, much to the surprise of those who could've sworn the internet already passed judgment.
    “This season has been terrible” isn’t a criticism limited to internet nerds, though.

    Yeah

    It's also about people only watching it so they can speed off and get the next viral meme before anyone else

    Edit: As well as a portion of people who have openly admitted they hated the show and have for years

    jungleroomx on
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Will "burninating the city" replace "jumping the shark" in the popular lexicon?

  • McFodderMcFodder Registered User regular
    The best decision made in the last few episodes was to let Peter Dinklage carry the finale.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-3944-9431-0318
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  • Baron DirigibleBaron Dirigible Registered User regular
    Will "burninating the city" replace "jumping the shark" in the popular lexicon?
    Only because “shooting a dragon down from behind a rock in broad daylight” is a bit wordy.

This discussion has been closed.