-10% energy heat is pretty significant, especially if you have a varied energy set based on firing at particular ranges.
But in this specific case, this specific mech with this specific swap for the ECM, I'd argue the ECM gain is more substantial. It's a very powerful defense tool; not just against lock-ons, but even for not showing up as a red blip, people can miss you moving among buildings in the distance if their visual scanning isn't deliberately looking.
Yeah ECM can often make you totally invisible to people in brawls as well. It is even funnier being in a Kit Fox with ECM since nobody takes you seriously at all. With two little SRM4s and ERML.
Oh my goodness, my Kit Fox has 3 Heavy Medium Lasers. Not the strongest weapon set maybe, but it's consistent enough to get people to fuck off trying to take me on one-on-one.
Yeah one day I'll make my Kit Fox scary. Till then it is the cute little mech that could.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited June 2019
Alright here's the build I settled on with my Hellbringer. 2x ERLL and 6x HML. Plus that nifty ECM. The HMLs don't fire all as one by a long shot. They're arranged for the arms to fire as one group (my tertiary trigger) and the torso to fire as another (as my secondary, and they can reach over hills). It's got okay power at range with the ERLLs but it punches hard as hell in up close fights. Staggering the shots okay and accounting for time taken moving around obstacles, the heat management is fine.
Edit - Son of a. This build gets shut down pretty damn hard if the left torso gets taken out. This is why I hate asymmetrical builds!
I think I only have one Omni that has the So8 bonus intentionally, the WHK-Prime, which without the TC and skills gets 20% PPC velocity (I need to log in and see what it is in total, but the shots travel fast as hell), and it packs quad ERPPCs as its only weapons.
Ha, I never even looked at the pods for the Virago. I think mine has 2 HLL and some ERML and I just use the empty arm as a shield. I've actually got it working pretty well, but took enough matches to fully skill it before I figured out a good playstyle. Still dont like using it much. Laser vomit isnt really my thing. I like booms.
Ha, I never even looked at the pods for the Virago. I think mine has 2 HLL and some ERML and I just use the empty arm as a shield. I've actually got it working pretty well, but took enough matches to fully skill it before I figured out a good playstyle. Still dont like using it much. Laser vomit isnt really my thing. I like booms.
Not sure if folks want to listen to an hour long interview, but the First Circuit podcast (primarily MWO) had Blaine Lee Pardoe on to discuss the history and future of Battletech, writing the fiction, and hints towards the future.
Ha, I never even looked at the pods for the Virago. I think mine has 2 HLL and some ERML and I just use the empty arm as a shield. I've actually got it working pretty well, but took enough matches to fully skill it before I figured out a good playstyle. Still dont like using it much. Laser vomit isnt really my thing. I like booms.
I normally use the Prime base and build from there because Invasion variant bonus...but that thing has been pretty awesome for me.
I like that quite a bit. I'd have to redo my skills but I have a bunch of XP on it already. It's literally a bigger, slower version of my brawler stormcrow, but with ECM instead of AMS. And I love me some ECM.
My first Hellbringer was built to be a fake Warhammer. 2 ERPPCs, 1 SRM6, a few ERSLs in the torsos (with ECM). It was terrible till the real Warhammers were released, but I piloted it to cover the Oosiks with ECM back then (till I got the Pirate's Bane and never piloted the Hellbringer again). After that I copied @Nips build focusing on 3 UAC5s (and I think some ERMLs as backup, can't remember) and never changed after that.
lol nice I've never gotten that event. I have however started to dig into the urban warfare dlc and finally did an attack & defend mission. I feel like they missed a great opportunity with that mission type, it would have been so much cooler if every 3-4 turns both bases spit out a few tanks or mechs, give it a feeling of an ongoing conflict that you need to push up and through.
Mon-Fri 8:30 PM CST - 11:30 PM CST
0
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
edited June 2019
I need to try an attack and defend again now that I have non-starting mechs. The startin mechs against a 2 or 2 1/2 star attack and defend does not work very well.
I enjoyed the one attack&defend I did in a Flashpoint with the goofy idiot friendly lance I got and being overweight for the skull rating. But from what I've read on the forums it's one of those things that's balanced so at the easy end it's all fun and games but at the hard end it's just stupid. And I don't feel like rolling those dice, especially since the amount you are paid in cash and salvage has no relation to the inherent difficulty of the mission type.
well I did mine with 2 newbie pilots with 2 javelins, a firestarter and a panther, 1 skull. I did get some structure damage on my mechs so it wasn't a walk in the park but its doable, took down a crab and a hunchbro in the frigging 4 lances too. I wasn't expecting it to be that difficult, but I think making more moba-esque would be a really fun mission type
oh also I did a battle where a third faction showed up and it was a 3 way battle and it was fucking awesome (thats when all I had was a javelin and a panther so I was a bit terrified of fighting 2 lances)
Just starting this up with the DLC, what should I know?
Get your mechs into the mechlab as soon as you can afford it and max out your armor, even if you need to drop a weapon or some ammo. Don't be afraid to punch stuff... Punching could be better than shooting... Come to think of it, punch everything all the time.
Tbh in the tutorial I couldn't really understand much about what was going on in combat. I just hit fire over and over again. Sometimes I hit multi fire and it randomly did or did not work.
0
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Just starting this up with the DLC, what should I know?
If you're coming in with zero foreknowledge of how the game works, take your time and read everything the game gives you.
Like @nonoffensive said, the stock builds of virtually every 'Mech are deficient. Rebuild them when you can, prioritizing armor (though trimming some leg armor for tonnage with heavier 'Mechs is acceptable). Jump jets are also super useful, but adding them usually means compromising on guns or heat sinks.
Take your time in missions. You're not on a clock (usually), so advance cautiously and use your environment (forests) to your advantage.
Have fun! And don't hesitate to ask if you have any problems or specific questions.
Nips on
+4
Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
edited June 2019
Is Eck's megaguide still relevant? Because if so, that's a great overview for the combat system.
Huge caveat that this was originally written a while ago and there have been multiple balance patches since then. It's likely that specific numbers no longer apply, but the general concepts and mechanics should largely remain true. Eck is on the dev team and routinely won the internal PVP tournaments at HBS.
Tbh in the tutorial I couldn't really understand much about what was going on in combat. I just hit fire over and over again. Sometimes I hit multi fire and it randomly did or did not work.
So the combat in Battletech is new XCom style. Each mech can move and then take an additional action, or you can forfeit your second action to sprint. Moving, jumping and sprinting can grant Evasion if you move far enough. However, you do not have to move, and can get some bonuses (like chance to hit, or braced?) for standing your ground. If your (non-sprint) movement allows you to reach an enemy mech, you can click that mech to initiate a melee attack which lets you deal damage and cool off while forfeiting a few defensive bonuses.
Additional actions show up on your pilots action bar. You can Guard to take less damage and cool off, this makes a good combo with Evasion if you can move to retreat. You can shoot, chance to hit is based off the enemies movement, your pilot's gunnery skill, and your weapon's optimal range band. You can also use your "active" pilot skills like Multi-Target, or Morale abilities like Called Shot to modify your attack. Watch your heat when firing to avoid pilot and internal mech damage that takes time to heal outside of combat.
Multi-Target has two phases: selecting up to three targets (A,B&C), and then targeting each weapon at one of the three. So you hit Multi-Target, click 1-3 enemy mechs, accept your selection, then click the "checkbox/toggle" button next to each weapon to cycle between targets A, B and C or disabling the weapon. Fire when ready. Multi-Target will combo with Precision Shot that gives you a bonus when you are only firing one weapon, letting you benefit from the bonus up to three times, but don't worry about that now, you won't get that for awhile.
The direction you attack from effects which parts of target take damage. Attacking from the same side multiple times will help you focus damage on a target, dealing crippling blows more quickly.
Combat is all about maximizing your offensive and defensive bonuses, focusing damage while denying the enemy line of sight, and forcing the enemy to take less favorable moves. You will be heavily outnumbered, so learning how to gang up on targets without opening yourself up to return fire is key.
The weight class of your mechs determines which Initiative Phase they can act in. These are the 5 bars at the top of the screen, red arrows are the enemies that move in that phase, white arrows are friendly units. Lights move and shoot first, then Mediums, Heavies and last go Assaults. NPC Turrets and some vehicles always move last, even after assaults. Some abilities and events can allow pilots to act earlier, or wait an additional phase. Inside a Phase you take turns, one friendly, one enemy at a time.
nonoffensive on
+7
Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
To piggyback from the great stuff in nonoffensive's post:
Evasion is indicated by chevrons above your mech. The more evasion pips a mech has, the harder it is to hit. When you are testing where to move (before you commit to the action), you will see a pile of 1-5 chevrons - those are your evasion pips. A mech with evasion that is targeted by one unit's attack will lose one evasion pip regardless of how many weapons targeted it and regardless of whether the attack hit. In this way, multi-target can be used to strip evasion pips from multiple enemies at once, firing 1-2 weapons at each of up to three targets from a single mech.
When you are moving your mech, you will see gray arcs of differing density surrounding the mech. Those are the range bands for the weapon systems loaded on that mech. Weapons at long range, or too close for their minimum range, will have reduced accuracy. When you target an enemy, you'll notice gold/gray chevrons around your target's model on the battlefield. Those correspond to optimal/nonoptimal range bands for the weapons your mech has equipped, relative to the enemy you are targeting.
When you target an enemy, you'll see red bands highlighting the side of their mech that you are targeting. This information is useful for precisely targeting important enemy components (many mechs have their weapons loaded on one side or another, so that they can use their "dead" side as a damage sponge. Mouse over their body segments on the targeting display to see what components are located in any particular section).
Also, if you have a question about anything in the game, there's a good chance that hovering your cursor over it will give you a pop-up that explains it further.
For example, the heat efficiency in the MechLab can show you your Alpha Heat vs Heat Dissipated each turn
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited June 2019
Oh boy a MWO patch happened yesterday.
- Players can now change their Faction between matches (no longer restricted between conflict or phase)
- A Phase can now potentially have more than one game mode available at a time.
- When viewing the Faction Selection screen, players can now see the population balance between both prior to selecting a side.
- The beeping sound effect on the launch countdown timer has been removed. (This includes Solaris mode as well)
Boy that'll fix Faction Play!
Also ATM missiles got nerfed and some big boi mechs got their mobility increased (no numbers to really show there).
Edit - The hit boxes of the Hellbringer's left and right torsos really out-do the size of the center. Most of the time I die it's because I'm losing both of those (which house an XL engine; god, fuck XL engines).
Also Tube since nobody else has mentioned it two random bits of advice that randomly end up being extremely useful.
1 - You're not necessarily supposed to win every (non-story) mission. Sometimes you get bad intel and end up stupidly out-numbered.
2 - There is an eject option, and using it will save your 'mech, and your pilot.
I'm new to this game, after months and months of longing for it, took the plunge. (A new laptop that could actually run it helped too. My beloved Surface Pro 3 is shit for games).
This is something I desperately need to learn. I'm still relatively early in the campaign mode and to date I refuse to eject. I refuse to withdraw from contracts. I'll eat enormous repairs bills, but once one of my mechwarriors dies (which is a lot at 2.5 skulls with only one heavy in my roster) I end up restarting the mission. Or save scumming.
Which then makes me feel like a dirty cheat, because that is absolutely not the intent of the game.
Oh boy a MWO patch happened yesterday.
- Players can now change their Faction between matches (no longer restricted between conflict or phase)
- A Phase can now potentially have more than one game mode available at a time.
- When viewing the Faction Selection screen, players can now see the population balance between both prior to selecting a side.
- The beeping sound effect on the launch countdown timer has been removed. (This includes Solaris mode as well)
Boy that'll fix Faction Play!
Also ATM missiles got nerfed and some big boi mechs got their mobility increased (no numbers to really show there).
Edit - The hit boxes of the Hellbringer's left and right torsos really out-do the size of the center. Most of the time I die it's because I'm losing both of those (which house an XL engine; god, fuck XL engines).
At least you have to lose both to die in a Clan mech. IS you're hosed losing just one.
Even when you up the difficulty if you know how combat works you can still win every mission, even with bad intel or some bullshit RNG, but it can be frustratingly not worth it. So you win the ridiculously stacked fight but great, some mechs lost limbs and now you're losing money when you factor in the time and cbills spent repairing.
What made the game more fun for me isn't that Withdrawal and Eject existed, it's learning how easy and pain free they are to use. When you eject from a mech it destroys the head, but you recover the whole mech as-is after the battle and that's a small repair bill. For the longest time I thought that Withdrawing from combat would light up a LZ you'd have to extract to... but it just immediately ends the mission. You press the button and you're out.
So when that one has had some unlucky string of hits keep tagging its right torso from the ridiculous bullshit spawning, it's got 4 structure left and you can fight your way clear of this but not without taking another stray hit and damnit all your 35 damage Medium Lasers are in there? Just Eject the pilot from that mech and save those lasers that are worth more than this whole mission and do the rest with three.
Hold up...
I though all XLs die when they lose any torso bit, Lights die if they lose either both sides or the center, and standard dies only if the CT goes.
Hold up...
I though all XLs die when they lose any torso bit, Lights die if they lose either both sides or the center, and standard dies only if the CT goes.
IS XL dies on any torso loss
IS light / Clan XL dies on both sides or one center loss
Standard dies on center loss
Standard is 100% weight 6 slot
IS light is 75% weight 10 slot
Clan XL is 50% weight10 slot
IS XL is 50% weight 14 slot or 12 slot
Iirc
Gnome-Interruptus on
MWO: Adamski
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Also Clan-side if you lose a torso section with an XL engine, your engine performance drops (you move slower).
Posts
Yeah one day I'll make my Kit Fox scary. Till then it is the cute little mech that could.
Steam: betsuni7
Edit - Son of a. This build gets shut down pretty damn hard if the left torso gets taken out. This is why I hate asymmetrical builds!
Everything else skips for better hard points.
Could always use my old battleax.
I normally use the Prime base and build from there because Invasion variant bonus...but that thing has been pretty awesome for me.
Not sure if folks want to listen to an hour long interview, but the First Circuit podcast (primarily MWO) had Blaine Lee Pardoe on to discuss the history and future of Battletech, writing the fiction, and hints towards the future.
I like that quite a bit. I'd have to redo my skills but I have a bunch of XP on it already. It's literally a bigger, slower version of my brawler stormcrow, but with ECM instead of AMS. And I love me some ECM.
Steam: betsuni7
Get in there and brawl with it? Win where I kill a quarter of the other team.
(insert Seinfeld "I'm out" gif).
oh also I did a battle where a third faction showed up and it was a 3 way battle and it was fucking awesome (thats when all I had was a javelin and a panther so I was a bit terrified of fighting 2 lances)
I don't get it.
B A 1100 N
Balloon
1 delta 10 tango
I D 10 T
EDIT - and now I want to see a new bolt-on in MWO that attaches to hands that's just a balloon on a string.
Get your mechs into the mechlab as soon as you can afford it and max out your armor, even if you need to drop a weapon or some ammo. Don't be afraid to punch stuff... Punching could be better than shooting... Come to think of it, punch everything all the time.
It should only work for the Atlas and have a crying face for when it pops or flys off. I'd buy an Atlas and the bolt-on just for this.
Steam: betsuni7
If you're coming in with zero foreknowledge of how the game works, take your time and read everything the game gives you.
Like @nonoffensive said, the stock builds of virtually every 'Mech are deficient. Rebuild them when you can, prioritizing armor (though trimming some leg armor for tonnage with heavier 'Mechs is acceptable). Jump jets are also super useful, but adding them usually means compromising on guns or heat sinks.
Take your time in missions. You're not on a clock (usually), so advance cautiously and use your environment (forests) to your advantage.
Have fun! And don't hesitate to ask if you have any problems or specific questions.
Link: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1365402907
Huge caveat that this was originally written a while ago and there have been multiple balance patches since then. It's likely that specific numbers no longer apply, but the general concepts and mechanics should largely remain true. Eck is on the dev team and routinely won the internal PVP tournaments at HBS.
It's too bad we don't have the original look of the Warhammer anymore...because it'd be perfect for a permanently deflated balloon bolt-on.
Image: hot off my scan of page 89 from my Battletech: The Crescent Hawks' Revenge manual!
So the combat in Battletech is new XCom style. Each mech can move and then take an additional action, or you can forfeit your second action to sprint. Moving, jumping and sprinting can grant Evasion if you move far enough. However, you do not have to move, and can get some bonuses (like chance to hit, or braced?) for standing your ground. If your (non-sprint) movement allows you to reach an enemy mech, you can click that mech to initiate a melee attack which lets you deal damage and cool off while forfeiting a few defensive bonuses.
Additional actions show up on your pilots action bar. You can Guard to take less damage and cool off, this makes a good combo with Evasion if you can move to retreat. You can shoot, chance to hit is based off the enemies movement, your pilot's gunnery skill, and your weapon's optimal range band. You can also use your "active" pilot skills like Multi-Target, or Morale abilities like Called Shot to modify your attack. Watch your heat when firing to avoid pilot and internal mech damage that takes time to heal outside of combat.
Multi-Target has two phases: selecting up to three targets (A,B&C), and then targeting each weapon at one of the three. So you hit Multi-Target, click 1-3 enemy mechs, accept your selection, then click the "checkbox/toggle" button next to each weapon to cycle between targets A, B and C or disabling the weapon. Fire when ready. Multi-Target will combo with Precision Shot that gives you a bonus when you are only firing one weapon, letting you benefit from the bonus up to three times, but don't worry about that now, you won't get that for awhile.
The direction you attack from effects which parts of target take damage. Attacking from the same side multiple times will help you focus damage on a target, dealing crippling blows more quickly.
Combat is all about maximizing your offensive and defensive bonuses, focusing damage while denying the enemy line of sight, and forcing the enemy to take less favorable moves. You will be heavily outnumbered, so learning how to gang up on targets without opening yourself up to return fire is key.
The weight class of your mechs determines which Initiative Phase they can act in. These are the 5 bars at the top of the screen, red arrows are the enemies that move in that phase, white arrows are friendly units. Lights move and shoot first, then Mediums, Heavies and last go Assaults. NPC Turrets and some vehicles always move last, even after assaults. Some abilities and events can allow pilots to act earlier, or wait an additional phase. Inside a Phase you take turns, one friendly, one enemy at a time.
Evasion is indicated by chevrons above your mech. The more evasion pips a mech has, the harder it is to hit. When you are testing where to move (before you commit to the action), you will see a pile of 1-5 chevrons - those are your evasion pips. A mech with evasion that is targeted by one unit's attack will lose one evasion pip regardless of how many weapons targeted it and regardless of whether the attack hit. In this way, multi-target can be used to strip evasion pips from multiple enemies at once, firing 1-2 weapons at each of up to three targets from a single mech.
When you are moving your mech, you will see gray arcs of differing density surrounding the mech. Those are the range bands for the weapon systems loaded on that mech. Weapons at long range, or too close for their minimum range, will have reduced accuracy. When you target an enemy, you'll notice gold/gray chevrons around your target's model on the battlefield. Those correspond to optimal/nonoptimal range bands for the weapons your mech has equipped, relative to the enemy you are targeting.
When you target an enemy, you'll see red bands highlighting the side of their mech that you are targeting. This information is useful for precisely targeting important enemy components (many mechs have their weapons loaded on one side or another, so that they can use their "dead" side as a damage sponge. Mouse over their body segments on the targeting display to see what components are located in any particular section).
For example, the heat efficiency in the MechLab can show you your Alpha Heat vs Heat Dissipated each turn
I... I need to go grab my old copies of the Crescent Hawks again. For nostalgia.
@Nips you should copy/paste those two posts for the OP.
Steam: betsuni7
1 - You're not necessarily supposed to win every (non-story) mission. Sometimes you get bad intel and end up stupidly out-numbered.
2 - There is an eject option, and using it will save your 'mech, and your pilot.
- Players can now change their Faction between matches (no longer restricted between conflict or phase)
- A Phase can now potentially have more than one game mode available at a time.
- When viewing the Faction Selection screen, players can now see the population balance between both prior to selecting a side.
- The beeping sound effect on the launch countdown timer has been removed. (This includes Solaris mode as well)
Boy that'll fix Faction Play!
Also ATM missiles got nerfed and some big boi mechs got their mobility increased (no numbers to really show there).
Edit - The hit boxes of the Hellbringer's left and right torsos really out-do the size of the center. Most of the time I die it's because I'm losing both of those (which house an XL engine; god, fuck XL engines).
Patch took exactly 30 minutes.
I'm new to this game, after months and months of longing for it, took the plunge. (A new laptop that could actually run it helped too. My beloved Surface Pro 3 is shit for games).
This is something I desperately need to learn. I'm still relatively early in the campaign mode and to date I refuse to eject. I refuse to withdraw from contracts. I'll eat enormous repairs bills, but once one of my mechwarriors dies (which is a lot at 2.5 skulls with only one heavy in my roster) I end up restarting the mission. Or save scumming.
Which then makes me feel like a dirty cheat, because that is absolutely not the intent of the game.
At least you have to lose both to die in a Clan mech. IS you're hosed losing just one.
Great, so basically Oosik night might be patching night for me? Hopefully I'll have it done to drop in a few matches.
Steam: betsuni7
What made the game more fun for me isn't that Withdrawal and Eject existed, it's learning how easy and pain free they are to use. When you eject from a mech it destroys the head, but you recover the whole mech as-is after the battle and that's a small repair bill. For the longest time I thought that Withdrawing from combat would light up a LZ you'd have to extract to... but it just immediately ends the mission. You press the button and you're out.
So when that one has had some unlucky string of hits keep tagging its right torso from the ridiculous bullshit spawning, it's got 4 structure left and you can fight your way clear of this but not without taking another stray hit and damnit all your 35 damage Medium Lasers are in there? Just Eject the pilot from that mech and save those lasers that are worth more than this whole mission and do the rest with three.
I generally don’t bother with sniping in it. I’m playing it like an Annihilator with bad hotboxes and it works.
I though all XLs die when they lose any torso bit, Lights die if they lose either both sides or the center, and standard dies only if the CT goes.
IS XL dies on any torso loss
IS light / Clan XL dies on both sides or one center loss
Standard dies on center loss
Standard is 100% weight 6 slot
IS light is 75% weight 10 slot
Clan XL is 50% weight10 slot
IS XL is 50% weight 14 slot or 12 slot
Iirc
MWO: Adamski
Also heat problems. IS XL Light (or whatever it is called) also has the same problem as the Clan XL.
Steam: betsuni7