[Castlevania & Bloodstained] sitting in a tree, S-L-A-Y-I-N-G

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  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I've just got the Aegis plate

    there are a couple map tiles in the dragon towers I can not figure out how to get

    You'll get those later when you get reverse gravity.

    If a movement doesn't have someone that can sit down opposite those in a position of power and strike a deal, how can that movement achieve success?
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    I got reverse gravity and got the aegis plate. I just can't figure out how to get the last two tiles.

  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    I’m pretty sure Bloodlines is held in higher regard. I’d rather play that one.

    Oh it definitely is. I intend to play through them both. I've never actually completed either that one or the first Game Boy game.

    In fact, now that I think of it, the first handheld Castlevania game I ever beat properly was Aria of Sorrow! I never killed Drac in Circle of the Moon, and I got the worst ending in Harmony of Dissonance.

  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    SteevL wrote: »
    I’m pretty sure Bloodlines is held in higher regard. I’d rather play that one.

    Oh it definitely is. I intend to play through them both. I've never actually completed either that one or the first Game Boy game.

    In fact, now that I think of it, the first handheld Castlevania game I ever beat properly was Aria of Sorrow! I never killed Drac in Circle of the Moon, and I got the worst ending in Harmony of Dissonance.

    I never finished Harmony of Dissonance. I couldn't figure out where to go and it ended up just being boring.

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  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I got reverse gravity and got the aegis plate. I just can't figure out how to get the last two tiles.

    Make sure you reverse gravity both on the outside of the tower and the rooms inside.

    If a movement doesn't have someone that can sit down opposite those in a position of power and strike a deal, how can that movement achieve success?
    Xaquin
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Patch is out on Switch (1.04?).

    No idea what it changes, just letting folks know.

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Downloaded the patch and played about 4 hours last night

    can't say I really noticed anything all that different. Admittedly though I'm already past the library and twin dragons and that was the worst part. Maybe I'll see if the game freezes on the train demon again.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    I know people really like the Switch but I’m always going to opt for third party games on other consoles. Nine times out of ten they’re going to come out sooner and/or run better. Bloodstain’s unfortunate situation only further validated my stance. :?

    As someone who owns 300+ games on the Switch, I honestly believe Bloodstained's situation to be very rare. I don't typically have performance issues with Switch games.

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  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    Drez wrote: »
    I know people really like the Switch but I’m always going to opt for third party games on other consoles. Nine times out of ten they’re going to come out sooner and/or run better. Bloodstain’s unfortunate situation only further validated my stance. :?

    As someone who owns 300+ games on the Switch, I honestly believe Bloodstained's situation to be very rare. I don't typically have performance issues with Switch games.

    Honestly I think it's a problem with a very small team (kickstarter project) having to manage the port in a pretty limited amount of time alongside all the other versions. Keeping in mind they already had to scrap a who-knows-how-complete Wii U version to start over on Switch mid-development. I would imagine most Switch titles have the benefit of either being one-off ports (i.e. it already exists on everything else so they can devote 100% of resources to the Switch port) or a larger team more familiar with Switch development (or just able to throw more resources at it).

    FWIW it's generally fine, crashing aside. It runs, usually ok. I don't think I would have shipped with the dragon tower in that shape (there's really only so much frame drop you can get away with and this was like a freaking slide show) but they had deadlines and it didn't make sense to hold back other versions for the Switch one I imagine.

    Edit: Oh, and add to this, as I think someone mentioned earlier, the likely spaghetti code of several different studios working on this thing at various points in time.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    People are used to delayed Switch versions for bigger games with dedicated port teams. Its the only modern platform that isn't x86 and quite a bit more modest, so it really demands specialized knowledge and attention. Them being small does not excuse them releasing something crappy before its had sufficient time/money put into it, especially when they were going to do that work eventually anyway. Heck they'd probably even get sizable double dipping with a later release. They might have been backed into that release with Kickstarter obligations but if so that is just bad planning on their part.

    rahkeesh2000 on
  • RidleySariaRidleySaria AnaheimRegistered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    I know people really like the Switch but I’m always going to opt for third party games on other consoles. Nine times out of ten they’re going to come out sooner and/or run better. Bloodstain’s unfortunate situation only further validated my stance. :?

    As someone who owns 300+ games on the Switch, I honestly believe Bloodstained's situation to be very rare. I don't typically have performance issues with Switch games.

    No, there are a lot of differences. Maybe not with indie games that don’t require high specs. Switch games might not run badly the way Bloodstained does, but undoubtedly not as good as on the competition. They run at 30fps instead of 60, have dynamic resolution, noticeably compromised graphics, etc.

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  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    I know people really like the Switch but I’m always going to opt for third party games on other consoles. Nine times out of ten they’re going to come out sooner and/or run better. Bloodstain’s unfortunate situation only further validated my stance. :?

    As someone who owns 300+ games on the Switch, I honestly believe Bloodstained's situation to be very rare. I don't typically have performance issues with Switch games.

    No, there are a lot of differences. Maybe not with indie games that don’t require high specs. Switch games might not run badly the way Bloodstained does, but undoubtedly not as good as on the competition. They run at 30fps instead of 60, have dynamic resolution, noticeably compromised graphics, etc.

    Right so Bloodstain shouldn't further validate your stance then since you know it's an exception. :)

  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    Its not a performance issue that a game looks ugly or blurry. It's a performance issue when the gameplay is disrupted by massive slowdown (not even dropped frames), crashes, and loading times.

    Also I'm doubting anyone has 300+ AAA games. It's really a non-issue for nearly every indie that puts out a bit of effort. (Looking at you ARK) Never mind ID magic and all the last-gen ports that were designed around running bad in the first place.

    rahkeesh2000 on
  • RidleySariaRidleySaria AnaheimRegistered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    I know people really like the Switch but I’m always going to opt for third party games on other consoles. Nine times out of ten they’re going to come out sooner and/or run better. Bloodstain’s unfortunate situation only further validated my stance. :?

    As someone who owns 300+ games on the Switch, I honestly believe Bloodstained's situation to be very rare. I don't typically have performance issues with Switch games.

    No, there are a lot of differences. Maybe not with indie games that don’t require high specs. Switch games might not run badly the way Bloodstained does, but undoubtedly not as good as on the competition. They run at 30fps instead of 60, have dynamic resolution, noticeably compromised graphics, etc.

    Right so Bloodstain shouldn't further validate your stance then since you know it's an exception. :)

    Not really. They’re all lesser experiences.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    I mean, Bloodstained isn’t an AAA game. It doesn’t make sense to compare it to AAA games. I won’t deny that something like Saints Row just simply runs and looks better on anything other than a Switch, no matter how well it runs, but that’s not really relevant to a discussion on Bloodstained. Also, portability is a huge factor for a lot of people so whether or not something with less visual fidelity or, say, lag or control scheme issues has to be weighed alongside the portability factor when determining if something is a “lesser experience” or not, for a given individual.

    If you’re trying to argue that the vast majority of indie games is a worse experience on the Switch, I’m just going to completely disagree. There’s like 3000 digital games on the Switch. I own about 10% of them. For quite a lot of them I also own the game in question on Steam, on a ~$4,000 PC I custom built myself, via a 55 inch 4K TV. In almost every case the experience is either equivalent (with the benefit or portability) or better on the Swifch. Bloodstained is an outlier within a minuscule collection of outliers.

    edit: I realize the above sounds harsh and I really did not mean that to sound like an attack or anything. Ultimately my point is that Bloodstained was a significantly bad port. Even if you feel a lot of Switch ports are inferior to the versions of the ports on other platforms - and you’re more than welcome to feel that way, I’m not trying to argue you out of that perspective - very few of them were a complete fuckup like Bloodstained was. I mean, I won’t argue that there is an explicit inferiority present in a large number of Switch ports (for instance, playing in handheld mode at 720p max), but I think a lot of those issues are marginal and depend largely on how much you are personally impacted by that stuff. With Bloodstained, they just straight up fucked up the port. There was no way for anyone to have a legitimately positive experience on the Switch right out of the gate as far as I’m concerned. It was just...terrible.

    Drez on
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  • RidleySariaRidleySaria AnaheimRegistered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    If you’re trying to argue that the vast majority of indie games is a worse experience on the Switch
    Maybe not with indie games that don’t require high specs.

    So no, I wasn't arguing that.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    Drez wrote: »
    If you’re trying to argue that the vast majority of indie games is a worse experience on the Switch
    Maybe not with indie games that don’t require high specs.

    So no, I wasn't arguing that.

    I guess I’m confused, then.

    The initial post of yours that I responded to explicitly stated that you will “always” buy third party titles on any system other than a Switch.

    I mean, are you differentiating between “third party” and “indie” here? Because Bloodstained is essentially an indie title, from both a development and technical perspective.

    No matter what you call it, the vast majority of experiences on the Switch are close to or exceed the experiences available on other consoles. The vast majority of experiences available on the Switch are not from AAA titles - the amount of games within the technical caliber of Bloodstained and indie titles significantly overshadows what I would consider an AAA title. There’s barely a handful of those if you consider the whole Switch library.

    If it’s just a matter of misunderstanding what you meant by “third party” in the first post I responded to, then apologies, but I think it’s more appropriate to consider the Switch port of Bloodstained a bad port of an indie or indie-adjacent game. Regardless, even if we both agreed that Bloodstained should be judged similarly to the other games you are considering, it does not run poorly on Switch because third party experiences are necessarily inferior on Switch due to hardware limitations, it runs poorly on Switch because the developers/porters fucked up during development porting.

    Edit: Just to be totally clear, the main reason I’m arguing in this fashion is not to fanboy-defend for the Nintendo Switch but because I think it’s important to place the blame where it belongs and I do not agree that Bloodstained runs poorly on the Switch because of the Switch itself.

    Drez on
  • RidleySariaRidleySaria AnaheimRegistered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    If you’re trying to argue that the vast majority of indie games is a worse experience on the Switch
    Maybe not with indie games that don’t require high specs.

    So no, I wasn't arguing that.

    I guess I’m confused, then.

    The initial post of yours that I responded to explicitly stated that you will “always” buy third party titles on any system other than a Switch.

    I mean, are you differentiating between “third party” and “indie” here? Because Bloodstained is essentially an indie title, from both a development and technical perspective.

    No matter what you call it, the vast majority of experiences on the Switch are close to or exceed the experiences available on other consoles. The vast majority of experiences available on the Switch are not from AAA titles - the amount of games within the technical caliber of Bloodstained and indie titles significantly overshadows what I would consider an AAA title. There’s barely a handful of those if you consider the whole Switch library.

    If it’s just a matter of misunderstanding what you meant by “third party” in the first post I responded to, then apologies, but I think it’s more appropriate to consider the Switch port of Bloodstained a bad port of an indie or indie-adjacent game. Regardless, even if we both agreed that Bloodstained should be judged similarly to the other games you are considering, it does not run poorly on Switch because third party experiences are necessarily inferior on Switch due to hardware limitations, it runs poorly on Switch because the developers/porters fucked up during development porting.

    Edit: Just to be totally clear, the main reason I’m arguing in this fashion is not to fanboy-defend for the Nintendo Switch but because I think it’s important to place the blame where it belongs and I do not agree that Bloodstained runs poorly on the Switch because of the Switch itself.

    When it comes down to indie games that are exactly the same I'm much more likely to get them for the system where I'm already buying all my games. For the most part that's PS4. I don't play Switch in portable mode so I don't see any reason to favor it. On the meta game level, I still enjoy collecting trophies and Nintendo chose to omit a system for something like that. PS5 is also going to be backwards compatible, so there's also a higher likelihood of my collection carrying forward. So there's all of that on top of the fact that if the games lack parity, they're more likely to come out on top on PS4.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    That's fine, but I would say that that's a different argument than what I believe your initial argument was. And if I misinterpreted you, I am sorry, but it sounded like you were making an "objective" argument that Switch ports offer de facto inferior experiences (over other platforms) due to technical limitations of the Switch (which I disagree with, both in import and how widespread you seemed to think the issue is) and now, perhaps, due to ancillary benefits of the divergent ecosystems between platform brands - i.e. achievements, backwards compatibility. The latter matters highly to you and portability matters very little to you, but to me it is much the reverse.

    Anyway, I think we should just put this to rest - I didn't meant to get into a huge debate on this. I just think the Bloodstained port for Switch is an egregiously bad one and it kind of sucks that it would sour anyone to the Switch in general which I think is pretty damn good. Just one more thing that angers me about this port.

    Drez on
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  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    edited January 16
    I mean third party very clearly doesn't mean indies though. Just putting that out there. It means everything that isn't nintendo.

    And I definitely agree with that as someone who doesn't really play indie games (but will get bloodstained which is an indie in the technical sense but by a dude who made a bunch of non-indie games I enjoy). My Switch is for exclusives because when choosing between Switch and PS4 on anything basically 100% of the time I know I'm getting more from playing on PS4 at the same price. It's basically a non-decision.

    I imagine for most indies though you are getting kind of the same experience? I have no idea about that though. For AA and AAA stuff though yea, third parties are gonna perform better elsewhere. And if you are in the boat with other options you may not take the risk on an indie game either if you are just playing on the TV.

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    desc wrote: »
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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    these are the most unhelpful patch notes ever.

    • Stability improvements, such as crashes experienced while interacting with bookcases.

    • Fixed an issue with corruption during dialogue which could lead to crash

    • Some Performance improvements related to animations

    • General Bug Fixing

    all that is good, but aside from the bookcases, I don't know what was actually fixed?

  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited January 22
    I would hope that is most of the crashing issues... But then I dunno

    Curious if the tower is any better yet... they really need to dynamically load the enemies in that room or something...

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    oddly enough I had my first and only crash after the patch

    jumping into the room just past the gambling boss

    /shrug

    at least they fixed it enough for me to beat the train demon

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    just wanted to bump ye thread and say that I picked this up on steam sale and dear god it's night and day. This game when compared to PC is so bad on the switch. It's actually a beautiful well playing game that is as good if not better than SoTN!

  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    just wanted to bump ye thread and say that I picked this up on steam sale and dear god it's night and day. This game when compared to PC is so bad on the switch. It's actually a beautiful well playing game that is as good if not better than SoTN!

    Ah fuck it. It's 25% on Steam right now so I'll pick it up on Steam. I'm 100% not impressed with the Switch port.

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    just wanted to bump ye thread and say that I picked this up on steam sale and dear god it's night and day. This game when compared to PC is so bad on the switch. It's actually a beautiful well playing game that is as good if not better than SoTN!

    Ah fuck it. It's 25% on Steam right now so I'll pick it up on Steam. I'm 100% not impressed with the Switch port.

    It's crazy how much better it is. I don't double dip on too many games so I don't know if it's normal for a game to be so different on systems, but I will say that I enjoyed both Hollow Knight and Skyrim more on the switch vs. the PC, but for this game, PC is the way to go.

  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    just wanted to bump ye thread and say that I picked this up on steam sale and dear god it's night and day. This game when compared to PC is so bad on the switch. It's actually a beautiful well playing game that is as good if not better than SoTN!

    Ah fuck it. It's 25% on Steam right now so I'll pick it up on Steam. I'm 100% not impressed with the Switch port.

    It's crazy how much better it is. I don't double dip on too many games so I don't know if it's normal for a game to be so different on systems, but I will say that I enjoyed both Hollow Knight and Skyrim more on the switch vs. the PC, but for this game, PC is the way to go.

    Yeah I've watched videos on it and I was hoping the Switch would eventually get to that level of performance. It doesn't exactly look like a taxing game so I don't know the deal. It's remotely installing now.

    XaquinAbsoluteZero
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    I have to say though that the twin dragons still look bad

    I think that's a design fault though not the graphics

  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Hell yeah. March 5th for Netflix's CVS3 for those of us at work.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Who's that guy in the middle? The librarian from Symphony of the Night?

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  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Who's that guy in the middle? The librarian from Symphony of the Night?

    Maybe? I assume this is gonna follow like, Curse of Darkness which I never bothered to play because yuck 3d Castlevanias, so maybe he's from that game?

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Who's that guy in the middle? The librarian from Symphony of the Night?

    Maybe? I assume this is gonna follow like, Curse of Darkness which I never bothered to play because yuck 3d Castlevanias, so maybe he's from that game?

    Though based on the first two seasons, this series has definitely earned the right to create as many original characters as they'd like.

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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Who's that guy in the middle? The librarian from Symphony of the Night?

    Maybe? I assume this is gonna follow like, Curse of Darkness which I never bothered to play because yuck 3d Castlevanias, so maybe he's from that game?

    Though based on the first two seasons, this series has definitely earned the right to create as many original characters as they'd like.

    Especially when they're as badass as Sypha.

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I'm kind of shocked they're sticking to the one Belmont and time period. If there were ever a franchise that has a built in excuse to do timeskips and different protagonists, this is one of those.

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  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    I'm kind of shocked they're sticking to the one Belmont and time period. If there were ever a franchise that has a built in excuse to do timeskips and different protagonists, this is one of those.

    I mean, they aren't necessarily. It was pretty clear at the end of S2 they were leading into Curse of Darkness which takes place between CV3 and CV1. I assume at some point they're switching over to Simon, but are tackling stories in order for now.

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  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    Curse of Darkness actually isn't too bad of a game, but I suspect the show's take on it will be more enjoyable if this is that. It'll certainly be a better-acted experience.

    I wonder who the girl on the left is, between Carmilla and Isaac? Also, the many eyes in the background.

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  • RidleySariaRidleySaria AnaheimRegistered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Who's that guy in the middle? The librarian from Symphony of the Night?

    Maybe? I assume this is gonna follow like, Curse of Darkness which I never bothered to play because yuck 3d Castlevanias, so maybe he's from that game?

    Though based on the first two seasons, this series has definitely earned the right to create as many original characters as they'd like.

    Especially when they're as badass as Sypha.

    Sypha is absolutely a badass. That said, there was this moment:

    Alucard: "Where did you land the castle, Sypha?"

    Sypha: "Right on top of us!" clap clap clap

    That's when I fell in love with her. So adorable.

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  • KalnaurKalnaur I See Heat Waves . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    edited February 4
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Who's that guy in the middle? The librarian from Symphony of the Night?

    Maybe? I assume this is gonna follow like, Curse of Darkness which I never bothered to play because yuck 3d Castlevanias, so maybe he's from that game?

    Though based on the first two seasons, this series has definitely earned the right to create as many original characters as they'd like.

    Especially when they're as badass as Sypha.

    Sypha is absolutely a badass. That said, there was this moment:

    Alucard: "Where did you land the castle, Sypha?"

    Sypha: "Right on top of us!" clap clap clap

    That's when I fell in love with her. So adorable.

    "On the surface, right above this underground space that's probably only held up by wood and dirt.

    Let's go."

    I laughed so god damned hard at that.
    SteevL wrote: »
    Curse of Darkness actually isn't too bad of a game, but I suspect the show's take on it will be more enjoyable if this is that. It'll certainly be a better-acted experience.

    I wonder who the girl on the left is, between Carmilla and Isaac? Also, the many eyes in the background.

    Well, the girl in the middle with the black sleeves is Sypha. I'd guess the gal standing right by Hector is Rosaly, and that this is the probably not just Curse of Darkness but the interstitial story in-between those two games where Hector and Rosaly marry and then she's offed in a plot by Isaac in order to provoke Hector's return to the castle. Though it will be interesting to see if her that is indeed her name, and if her fate is the same as in the game canon.

    The many eyes in the background is reminiscent of Alucard/Dracula in the Helsing anime, so that's interesting.

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