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The John Wick Thread (OPEN SPOILERS)

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Posts

  • RussadRussad MARegistered User regular
    I didn't get a good look at it - is that what he was doing? I was surprised after how much attention had been paid in the previous entries to realistic reloading that he would often shoot more than he had loaded. That makes more sense.

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Russad wrote: »
    I didn't get a good look at it - is that what he was doing? I was surprised after how much attention had been paid in the previous entries to realistic reloading that he would often shoot more than he had loaded. That makes more sense.

    Yup. He was loading 2-3 shells at a time, using the force of the back ones to push the front ones deeper into the tube.

    Compare to Charon, who was single loading.

    Man, Sofia's guns had a lot of capacity!

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Like I said someone on the action team/props really wanted to have some realistic shotgun stuff. They did it in two as well. It's like they are trying to bring the realistic damage of what you can do with a shotgun to the big screen instead of our classic shoot *slow pump* shoot.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

    Eh John jumped off a building to avoid the shooting. Perception is reality and we hear from the man himself, he's pissed. The last time he lost his temper he wiped out the entire Viggo organization. Winston can try and claim he did it to save Wick, but I don't think Wick or the Bowery King are up for forgiveness right now.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Preacher wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

    Eh John jumped off a building to avoid the shooting. Perception is reality and we hear from the man himself, he's pissed. The last time he lost his temper he wiped out the entire Viggo organization. Winston can try and claim he did it to save Wick, but I don't think Wick or the Bowery King are up for forgiveness right now.

    Didn't Winston push him off?

    Like, where he stood, how he moved, everything seemed to be to create surprise and confusion. In fact, given that we know John Wick is immune to cars, balconies and railings aren't that far off and Winston may have been counting on that.

    And Wick never said who he was pissed at. I don't think the Bowery King has any specific issue with Winston... maybe? I can't remember.

    Never forget Winston was the one who said the movie's tagline: "If you want peace, prepare for war."

    Athenor on
    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

    Eh John jumped off a building to avoid the shooting. Perception is reality and we hear from the man himself, he's pissed. The last time he lost his temper he wiped out the entire Viggo organization. Winston can try and claim he did it to save Wick, but I don't think Wick or the Bowery King are up for forgiveness right now.

    Didn't Winston push him off?

    Like, where he stood, how he moved, everything seemed to be to create surprise and confusion. In fact, given that we know John Wick is immune to cars, balconies and railings aren't that far off and Winston may have been counting on that.

    And Wick never said who he was pissed at. I don't think the Bowery King has any specific issue with Winston... maybe? I can't remember.

    Never forget Winston was the one who said the movie's tagline: "If you want peace, prepare for war."

    He shot at John and John jumped off as I remember it.

    And the Bowery king is mad at the whole table system is what I take from it. Again two blue collar regular dudes who played by the rules got fucked by management who doesn't play by those same rules. They have every reason to burn the continentals to the ground.

    I wonder now with Halle Berry's character running a continental herself if they are setting her up as a villainess against Wick. The ultimate villain to take him down, because he loves dogs.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    John "Wick" Jovonovich is a Jojo character now.

    Well Jonathan's dog was killed in the first episode too so it checks out.

    TexiKen on
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

    I have to admit that I had a bit of a problem with the surgeon scene.
    I mean, they're going to know he helped Wick past his hour grace period by pointing out which medicine he should take, but nobody's going to question how Wick shot you in the stomach and shoulder but missed your shirt both times?
    I think there may be some questionable investigation techniques at play.

    see317 on
  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    Yeah the surgeon scene was kinda dumb.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

    I have to admit that I had a bit of a problem with the surgeon scene.
    I mean, they're going to know he helped Wick past his hour grace period by pointing out which medicine he should take, but nobody's going to question how Wick shot you in the stomach and shoulder but missed your shirt both times?
    I think there may be some questionable investigation techniques at play.

    He'll have taken the shirt off by then. Like it wasn't like they knew right away the doc helped him, but if they came by he could point to the two wounds he had to fix up as "yeah he came by and shot me twice."

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

    Eh John jumped off a building to avoid the shooting. Perception is reality and we hear from the man himself, he's pissed. The last time he lost his temper he wiped out the entire Viggo organization. Winston can try and claim he did it to save Wick, but I don't think Wick or the Bowery King are up for forgiveness right now.

    yes he does conveniently jump off the one part of a room with an awning in to an out of the way alley where a hobo assassin was waiting to pick him up to take him to a safe location. Almost like that was the plan all along...

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

    Eh John jumped off a building to avoid the shooting. Perception is reality and we hear from the man himself, he's pissed. The last time he lost his temper he wiped out the entire Viggo organization. Winston can try and claim he did it to save Wick, but I don't think Wick or the Bowery King are up for forgiveness right now.

    yes he does conveniently jump off the one part of a room with an awning in to an out of the way alley where a hobo assassin was waiting to pick him up to take him to a safe location. Almost like that was the plan all along...

    That raises an interesting point. The only exchange John Wick and Winston have on the rooftop is "Parlay." Wick immediately knows what's up.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

    Eh John jumped off a building to avoid the shooting. Perception is reality and we hear from the man himself, he's pissed. The last time he lost his temper he wiped out the entire Viggo organization. Winston can try and claim he did it to save Wick, but I don't think Wick or the Bowery King are up for forgiveness right now.

    yes he does conveniently jump off the one part of a room with an awning in to an out of the way alley where a hobo assassin was waiting to pick him up to take him to a safe location. Almost like that was the plan all along...

    I think you are making some assumptions here. I guess we'll see in JW 4. But I think Winston is going to get "checked out" one way or another.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

    Eh John jumped off a building to avoid the shooting. Perception is reality and we hear from the man himself, he's pissed. The last time he lost his temper he wiped out the entire Viggo organization. Winston can try and claim he did it to save Wick, but I don't think Wick or the Bowery King are up for forgiveness right now.

    yes he does conveniently jump off the one part of a room with an awning in to an out of the way alley where a hobo assassin was waiting to pick him up to take him to a safe location. Almost like that was the plan all along...

    I think you are making some assumptions here. I guess we'll see in JW 4. But I think Winston is going to get "checked out" one way or another.

    The only trajectory I see is one where Wick is not bothered by anyone, ever, and finally gets to rest with his dog and memories. He achieves that in three positions:
    - Ruler of it all (Elder)
    - Manager of a Continental
    - Dead.

    Given the theme of the sequels is "Consequences," I am not sure if he'll be able to work with the council.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    I forsee a Keyser Soze thing. John murders everyone, leaves their bodies smitten on the mountain top and then disappears like a ghost.

    The last shot of the movie is probably him buying a chew toy wearing goofy glasses.

    For me John gets to slip away because that's what he always wanted. He's not a martyr, he's not a true believer, he did his crimes he just wanted to grieve and hope. That was taken from him, but he still obviously wants that opportunity.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I forsee a Keyser Soze thing. John murders everyone, leaves their bodies smitten on the mountain top and then disappears like a ghost.

    The last shot of the movie is probably him buying a chew toy wearing goofy glasses.

    For me John gets to slip away because that's what he always wanted. He's not a martyr, he's not a true believer, he did his crimes he just wanted to grieve and hope. That was taken from him, but he still obviously wants that opportunity.

    I'll try and find a source later, but the director's on record that given everything Wick's done, there's no peace for him. Any given movie is going to end with John on the run, or dead.

    At least i'd swear I read words to that effect. But actually finding a source is eluding me

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    John Wick is a mass murderer and all it would take to get that man to stop killing people is a smart phone with Tinder installed

    “I’m going to live so I can keep the memory alive of my dead wife, the only person who could ever possibly love me,” is not exactly healthy

    He needs to move on, and the series should give him a love interest so he can do so. The dog is supposed to be the first step, not the end of his journey.

    (Also, it seems to me that John considers himself a bad person and believes that Helen’s love for him meant some element of spiritual forgiveness for his sins, but the movies never make clear whether or not she knew he was a hitman. I suspect not, which makes the whole thing even more psychologically baroque.)

    ACsTqqK.jpg
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure his wife would had to have known he was a hit man. I mean the house and money alone would warrant "What do you do for a living?"

    And I don't think from what we've seen of John he's down for another love in his life. He had that, it was taken from him by disease, and now he's done. He seemingly just wanted to live out his life in his big house with daisy. That was taken from him at first, but he got another dog and he was trying again when Dantonio came calling.

    But the new dog is still there, the salvation, the chance for grieving is still there, he just needs to get there.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    Well it’s true that these movies have such a compressed timeframe that I believe at the end of JW3 his wife still died like, six weeks ago

    But I would hope that if he gets a chance to grieve he could open himself up to love again and not, you know, cutting off more fingers so he can keep mass murdering

    Honestly I’m not sure why he didn’t just run in this one

    Usually people in danger don’t go into hiding for the rest of their lives because they have families and careers and a life, or because they don’t have walking away money, neither of which applies to John

    He should have used his hour to pick up his dog, get to the airport, and make his way to one of those islands nobody’s ever set foot on to retire and think about his wife

    ACsTqqK.jpg
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Because he wants to play by the rules to make amends. Like John's plan as we see it was to get out of the city, get to the the dude in the desert and ask to make amends. It's only at the end of the movie does he see the rules he was playing by were bullshit and he's the fucking boogeyman they should be running from him.

    I'd be surprised if we don't see a bit of this John Wick in 4.

    https://youtu.be/51t2_o_H_Rw

    He's been pushed around by the system, Dantonio bullied him into killing his sister, Winston bullied him into establishing himself as a power to the table, and now he's been cut free again, they tried to kill him after all he'd done for them and their system. And now its time the boogeyman gets what he wants instead of what people want of him.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Re: Wick reloading the shotgun. Based on this clip, it's a quad load where he pushes in two shells at a time.
    https://youtu.be/nrawit53W7s

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I like how in that brief clip she mentions he went fast and he said he could have gone faster and she mentions his hand is cut open. Reeves is one of those real perfectionists.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • breton-brawlerbreton-brawler Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Well it’s true that these movies have such a compressed timeframe that I believe at the end of JW3 his wife still died like, six weeks ago

    But I would hope that if he gets a chance to grieve he could open himself up to love again and not, you know, cutting off more fingers so he can keep mass murdering

    Honestly I’m not sure why he didn’t just run in this one

    Usually people in danger don’t go into hiding for the rest of their lives because they have families and careers and a life, or because they don’t have walking away money, neither of which applies to John

    He should have used his hour to pick up his dog, get to the airport, and make his way to one of those islands nobody’s ever set foot on to retire and think about his wife

    I think it comes down to the fact that he's surrounded by death, and he can not let go. He couldn't let go of the life of his wife, and now he's alive he can't let go of her memory. He can't just let go and move on, or give in. Just liek he couldn't let the murder of the puppy go by. Heck the whole movie is about him breaking the rules and usually the consequences of that is death, and he can't accept that either, he's just fueled by a fight that may never end. (actually this is a theme in all three movies)
    All the killing all the murdering can stop, he just has to let go of everything, but he is flawed. And that also part of what makes the movies great to watch.

  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Because he wants to play by the rules to make amends. Like John's plan as we see it was to get out of the city, get to the the dude in the desert and ask to make amends. It's only at the end of the movie does he see the rules he was playing by were bullshit and he's the fucking boogeyman they should be running from him.

    I'd be surprised if we don't see a bit of this John Wick in 4.

    https://youtu.be/51t2_o_H_Rw

    He's been pushed around by the system, Dantonio bullied him into killing his sister, Winston bullied him into establishing himself as a power to the table, and now he's been cut free again, they tried to kill him after all he'd done for them and their system. And now its time the boogeyman gets what he wants instead of what people want of him.

    In that sense part of my problem is that I reached the conclusion that the system is bad way before John does

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  • John MatrixJohn Matrix Registered User regular
    I like how in that clip she's dressed like it's a damn swimsuit photoshoot/combat jump. What's wrong with a damn t-shirt. I guess if you want those instragram views...

  • 3lwap03lwap0 Registered User regular
    Re: Wick reloading the shotgun. Based on this clip, it's a quad load where he pushes in two shells at a time.
    https://youtu.be/nrawit53W7s

    What will really cook your noodle is Halle Berry kicking just as much ass.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa2RJPrY2Og

    As someone who shoots, I can tell you it takes a ton of practice to make it look as smooth as she does. She's not on Keanu's level I think, but she's not far behind either. Impressive all the same.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Because he wants to play by the rules to make amends. Like John's plan as we see it was to get out of the city, get to the the dude in the desert and ask to make amends. It's only at the end of the movie does he see the rules he was playing by were bullshit and he's the fucking boogeyman they should be running from him.

    I'd be surprised if we don't see a bit of this John Wick in 4.

    https://youtu.be/51t2_o_H_Rw

    He's been pushed around by the system, Dantonio bullied him into killing his sister, Winston bullied him into establishing himself as a power to the table, and now he's been cut free again, they tried to kill him after all he'd done for them and their system. And now its time the boogeyman gets what he wants instead of what people want of him.

    In that sense part of my problem is that I reached the conclusion that the system is bad way before John does

    Because you're a movie goer who's watched this franchise over the years. The in film time frame is like what 3 weeks? From JW 1? John has basically had zero time to process what's going on. I mean from the end of JW 2 to 3 it was the same day.

    John's not a planner, he's not a thinker, he's a doer and he's just doing what he thought would work out best and now he's seen that isn't the play.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I like how in that clip she's dressed like it's a damn swimsuit photoshoot/combat jump. What's wrong with a damn t-shirt. I guess if you want those instragram views...

    I think that's in the desert? It's probably hot there, and maybe she likes to dress like that don't hate.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Athenor wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

    Eh John jumped off a building to avoid the shooting. Perception is reality and we hear from the man himself, he's pissed. The last time he lost his temper he wiped out the entire Viggo organization. Winston can try and claim he did it to save Wick, but I don't think Wick or the Bowery King are up for forgiveness right now.

    yes he does conveniently jump off the one part of a room with an awning in to an out of the way alley where a hobo assassin was waiting to pick him up to take him to a safe location. Almost like that was the plan all along...

    I think you are making some assumptions here. I guess we'll see in JW 4. But I think Winston is going to get "checked out" one way or another.

    The only trajectory I see is one where Wick is not bothered by anyone, ever, and finally gets to rest with his dog and memories. He achieves that in three positions:
    - Ruler of it all (Elder)
    - Manager of a Continental
    - Dead.

    Given the theme of the sequels is "Consequences," I am not sure if he'll be able to work with the council.

    I gotta say, it may not be the most thematically appropriate ending, but I kinda like the idea that John is all JUST LET ME GRIEVE IN PEACE and they don't and so he's just all FINE FUCK YOU I'LL JUST MURDER EVERYONE IN YOUR FUCKING CLUB AND TAKE OVER MY DAMNED SELF SO I CAN GIVE THE ORDER TO LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    It's the Conker's Bad Fur Day ending. I'm totally down with that.

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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

    Eh John jumped off a building to avoid the shooting. Perception is reality and we hear from the man himself, he's pissed. The last time he lost his temper he wiped out the entire Viggo organization. Winston can try and claim he did it to save Wick, but I don't think Wick or the Bowery King are up for forgiveness right now.

    yes he does conveniently jump off the one part of a room with an awning in to an out of the way alley where a hobo assassin was waiting to pick him up to take him to a safe location. Almost like that was the plan all along...

    That raises an interesting point. The only exchange John Wick and Winston have on the rooftop is "Parlay." Wick immediately knows what's up.

    yes, something to do with the French... they invented mayonnaise you know.

  • Capt HowdyCapt Howdy Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure his wife would had to have known he was a hit man. I mean the house and money alone would warrant "What do you do for a living?"

    And I don't think from what we've seen of John he's down for another love in his life. He had that, it was taken from him by disease, and now he's done. He seemingly just wanted to live out his life in his big house with daisy. That was taken from him at first, but he got another dog and he was trying again when Dantonio came calling.

    But the new dog is still there, the salvation, the chance for grieving is still there, he just needs to get there.

    She damn sure would have had questions about his tattoos.

    Also, I only just realized yesterday he tells the doctor to pull the plug on his wife. That had to have fucked his head up something awful. Other people made the decision of who he kills for his job, but he had to make the decision for his wife. Talk about no chance for peace.

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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    I hope there was some sort of secret plan in place and Winston didn't actually betray John.

    I like Winston.

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Athenor wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Russad wrote: »
    One of the things I liked so much about the first film is that he did his best to make sure people were actually dead. I'm no action film expert, but I don't recall seeing the double-tap as standard procedure in many films.

    Not sure I "get" the end? I know the action is the real star here, and the plot is just there to facilitate but... Winston kills Perkins himself (or near enough) in the first one for violating the rules. He gives John an hour head start in two - presumably because they're friends, but possibly just because he knows what historically happens to people who try to kill John. So then they go through this elaborate siege as a show that Winston is still a strong leader and... he shoots John? Is this a true betrayal? Or did he think John had a decent chance of surviving the fall?

    He let John go in the second movie assuming he'd whether the fall out, but then the adjucator is like "give up the continental or die" and they literally send John Wick to kill him, so he makes the best deal for Winston and tries to kill the boogeyman. Except he didn't and whoops now you're mega fucked because now YOU stabbed the devil in the back Winston.

    I actually suspect the fourth movie will have Charon shoot Winston for Wick close to the end of the movie "Mr. Wick".

    I mean, they made a point of starting the movie with John Wick non fatally shooting his surgeon to fool the adjudicator, it makes total sense that Winston then non fatally shot John Wick to fool the adjudicator again.

    Eh John jumped off a building to avoid the shooting. Perception is reality and we hear from the man himself, he's pissed. The last time he lost his temper he wiped out the entire Viggo organization. Winston can try and claim he did it to save Wick, but I don't think Wick or the Bowery King are up for forgiveness right now.

    yes he does conveniently jump off the one part of a room with an awning in to an out of the way alley where a hobo assassin was waiting to pick him up to take him to a safe location. Almost like that was the plan all along...

    That raises an interesting point. The only exchange John Wick and Winston have on the rooftop is "Parlay." Wick immediately knows what's up.

    yes, something to do with the French... they invented mayonnaise you know.

    That's the only exchange, but when Winston starts shooting John says something along the lines of WTF, Wintson, stop. Which could be part of the plan, but all in all it reads like Winston felt he had no options left and botched it.

  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I hope there was some sort of secret plan in place and Winston didn't actually betray John.

    I like Winston.

    Since they were building the groundwork for another movie, I am fine with Winston's motivations being somewhat ambiguous for now.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    My read was that the movie was making Winston seem nefarious when he shot John, because John (and the audience) needed to buy it as a betrayal. But then they deliberately made Winston sound like he was bullshitting when he "found out" John wasn't dead.

    I think it was made to feel a little ambiguous, but mostly it felt like a clear misdirect.

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  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    There is zero chance Winston actually tried to kill John.
    He shot him, what, 4 times? every time in the bullet-proof suit. He drove him toward the edge of the building where he'd fall onto an awning into an alley rather than straight down onto the street. He was obviously full of shit talking to the adjudicator. And, most blatantly, immediately after John falls off the roof the concierge - who has always had John's back - reacts to the attack by saying, "Well played."

    It's established that Continental managers are former assassins. If Winston wanted John dead he'd have shot him in the head with the first bullet.

    Winston was shown in JW 2 to be unhappy with the system. He doesn't like the High Table or how they operate. He likes tradition and his own little empire. There's a deleted scene in JW2 with Winston and D'Antonio after D'Antonio is elevated to the Table and takes over NYC where Winston makes it very clear that his priorities do not necessarily mesh with those of the Table. He wants to run his umbrella of providers and services for gentlemen and gentlewomen killers, not play crime lord. When John comes into the Continental, gun in hand, heading for D'Antonio, what did Winston do? He stood there and said, "Oh, no, please, don't. No. Stop." He knew perfectly well what was about the go down. The Continentals have staff on hand to stop blood being shed - John and Common were instantly surrounded when they flew through the window at the Continental Rome - but Winston didn't call them in. He just watched it happen and thereby removed an element from the High Table whom he personally disliked.

    Then he gives John an hour head start. Not out of friendship but because he knows the Table will stop at nothing at this point to kill John and that John is such a fucking terminator that 11 people with essentially infinite resources vs. one John Wick is basically a fair fight. The longer John is out there murdering members of the High Table and causing chaos, the more opportunity Winston has to consolidate power for himself. Maybe he's even hoping John kills enough people for Winston himself to be elevated.

    The Adjudicator showing up threw a wrench into Winston's plans. They send John to kill him and he immediately, almost-effortlessly turns John back from his new fealty to the Table and into his weapon once again.

    In the end he 'betrays' John by failing to kill him. I say 'betray' because he never had any loyalty to John to betray in the first place. John is a tool to Winston and with his apparent betrayal he's just continuing to use said tool. John is now in a position where whatever faith the Elder, and by extension the High Table, had in John is gone. He's back to it being John Wick vs. The International Association of Assassins, which is exactly where Winston had him at the end of JW 2, only now the High Table believe Winston is personally on their side and will think twice about stepping on his toes thanks to his little show of eliminating all of the forces the Adjudicator brought against him. Will John want revenge against Winston? Maybe, but Winston has no reason to care. He's already shown that he can wrap John around his finger without breaking a sweat. If John comes for him again he'll spin a little sugar out of his ass and have John acting as his gun again.

    Anyway. This movie was great. I loved the ninjas to bits. None of them were in stereotypical ninja gear but they'd just appear out of the background of scenes and murder people, then vanish into the background again. And not like literally vanish - just stand still or move with the flow of traffic. That was some damned effective ninja-ing.

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  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    I just assumed Winston was backed into a corner where he had to do something, so he decided to shoot at Wick in a way that at least left it possible for Wick to survive. Winston clearly didn't try to kill Wick as much as he could've (he didn't send anyone to check up on the body, etc.) but he also cleary didn't say "fuck you, Adjudicator, Wick is my buddy" or anything like that. The way I see it, his preferred option would be to not betray Wick, but that wasn't an option, so he betrayed Wick in a way which at least let Wick possibly survive. It's like Wick shooting the doctor, but riskier in a few ways: he didn't get Wick's permission first, he wasn't sure Wick would survive, etc.

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    I just assumed Winston was backed into a corner where he had to do something, so he decided to shoot at Wick in a way that at least left it possible for Wick to survive. Winston clearly didn't try to kill Wick as much as he could've (he didn't send anyone to check up on the body, etc.) but he also cleary didn't say "fuck you, Adjudicator, Wick is my buddy" or anything like that. The way I see it, his preferred option would be to not betray Wick, but that wasn't an option, so he betrayed Wick in a way which at least let Wick possibly survive. It's like Wick shooting the doctor, but riskier in a few ways: he didn't get Wick's permission first, he wasn't sure Wick would survive, etc.

    At this point anyone who isn't sure Wick will survive is just not paying attention.

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