The premodern world in general was pretty brutal. The Diodachi wars as mentioned were pretty wild (they never quite got the literary treatment that the Three Kingdoms period or War of the Roses did, but the ingredients are all there). But Game of Thrones-esque civil war stories sans zombies and dragons litter history.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
The premodern world in general was pretty brutal. The Diodachi wars as mentioned were pretty wild (they never quite got the literary treatment that the Three Kingdoms period or War of the Roses did, but the ingredients are all there). But Game of Thrones-esque civil war stories sans zombies and dragons litter history.
I think while the war of the roses is interesting politically, in terms of just pure scale of warfare. It is tiny compared to the diodachi wars. And both of those were small compared to the wars of the three kingdom period.
A large battle in the war of the roses period was 30,000 troops.
A large battle of the diodachi wars was closer to 50,000 troops.
A large battle during the 3 kingdoms period was about a quarter million troops...unless you listen to Cao Cao and it was closer to a million.
Antiquity army numbers, even accounting for the hyperinflation of sources, were P riddic. Like the first Ghiscari Punic war involved a million soldiers over 20 years. It wouldn't be until the 16th century such numbere could be matched. Meanwhile a pivotal battle like Hastings involved maybe 20,000 people total.
The premodern world in general was pretty brutal. The Diodachi wars as mentioned were pretty wild (they never quite got the literary treatment that the Three Kingdoms period or War of the Roses did, but the ingredients are all there). But Game of Thrones-esque civil war stories sans zombies and dragons litter history.
I think while the war of the roses is interesting politically, in terms of just pure scale of warfare. It is tiny compared to the diodachi wars. And both of those were small compared to the wars of the three kingdom period.
A large battle in the war of the roses period was 30,000 troops.
A large battle of the diodachi wars was closer to 50,000 troops.
A large battle during the 3 kingdoms period was about a quarter million troops...unless you listen to Cao Cao and it was closer to a million.
The biggest battle in the war of the roses had around 25,000 or so on each side...
England also only had 3 million or so people at the time, Han China had 50 million (though after the 3 kingdoms period it was down to about a 3rd of that and wouldn’t completely recover until the Tang Dynasty, which says something about how crazy that period was).
Antiquity army numbers, even accounting for the hyperinflation of sources, were P riddic. Like the first Ghiscari Punic war involved a million soldiers over 20 years. It wouldn't be until the 16th century such numbere could be matched. Meanwhile a pivotal battle like Hastings involved maybe 20,000 people total.
This was something I remember thinking was neat in Wheel of Time. There were plenty of comments on how much larger armies had been hundreds or a thousand years ago and across the series there was a gradual ramp-up in terms of the size of various armies fighting.
What bugs me is that even if GRRM somehow farts out TWoW, that's not the last book. It's the second to last. There's no way he finishes both before kicking the bucket, even if by some miracle he finishes TWoW.
He's vehemently opposed to someone else finishing his baby, and he's vehemently opposed to doing so himself.
Like I said before: Real artists ship.
Sic transit gloria mundi.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
It’s his second to last book as of right now.
The series was originally planned to be three books long.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I would like to take this opportunity to remind folks of my fantasy that GRRM is playing release date chicken with Patrick Rothfuss. First one to publish their next book must shave their beard.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
From what I've heard, however, Rothfuss has yet to actually write anything. He apparently can't even bring himself to put pen to paper. There's likely some stuff going on there with anxiety, etc.
GRRM has hundreds of pages written but can't figure out how to finish it all or put it all together for the next volume. I really think he needs to just bite the bullet and let an editor go to town on what he has thus far and to guide him in a direction to get to the finish line. It's evident based on the last two volumes that his books have sprawled out of control and he doesn't seem to have an internal mechanism to pare things down. He should let someone else jump in and help him, instead of struggling by himself.
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Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
Didn't Rothfuss say he had the second one written and the third drafted when he got the first one published?
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
Didn't Rothfuss say he had the second one written and the third drafted when he got the first one published?
I believe he also posted a picture of the third one's first draft, or at least a pile of paper with the title page of the first one on top. It seems to have been a lie of sorts.
I'm pretty sure TWoW is due to hit right after Star Citizen officially releases.
tbh I'd put Star Citizen hitting full release 5+ years before TWoW comes out. Maybe 10+.
At least one of those projects has shown something resembling progress :P
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Star Citizen is selling jpgs of space ships for tens of thousands of dollars, and GRRM is making millions by giving HBO the go ahead to make TV shows with his name on them.
Neither needs to finish what they started to keep getting paid, and they won't.
The Hugos having something entitled “George R.R. Martin Can Fuck Off Into the Sun, Or: The 2020 Hugo Awards Ceremony (Rageblog Edition)” up for an award this year after he hosted the ceremony last year probably hasn't improved his mood much either.
i mean, the crapped out ghost written version of the final books already exists, its the tv show's final seasons.
my arm chair psychologist take is that martin's only motivation at this point is to provide a good and satisfying ending to the series for the fans, but he doesn't know how to do that, and he would rather release no ending than something subpar. the tv show presumably using his broad concept of how to end it and then having it go over like a lead balloon has probably not helped - why churn something out that the fans will just hate?
i mean, the crapped out ghost written version of the final books already exists, its the tv show's final seasons.
my arm chair psychologist take is that martin's only motivation at this point is to provide a good and satisfying ending to the series for the fans, but he doesn't know how to do that, and he would rather release no ending than something subpar. the tv show presumably using his broad concept of how to end it and then having it go over like a lead balloon has probably not helped - why churn something out that the fans will just hate?
i mean, the crapped out ghost written version of the final books already exists, its the tv show's final seasons.
my arm chair psychologist take is that martin's only motivation at this point is to provide a good and satisfying ending to the series for the fans, but he doesn't know how to do that, and he would rather release no ending than something subpar. the tv show presumably using his broad concept of how to end it and then having it go over like a lead balloon has probably not helped - why churn something out that the fans will just hate?
I figure he just doesn't want to work on it anymore, and simply doesn't want the headache (and likely threats, cause "internet"), that come with that if he admits it.
So he's left it as a Pulp Fiction briefcase. Noone gets to see what's inside, but they're left to imagine what could have been.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
i mean, the crapped out ghost written version of the final books already exists, its the tv show's final seasons.
my arm chair psychologist take is that martin's only motivation at this point is to provide a good and satisfying ending to the series for the fans, but he doesn't know how to do that, and he would rather release no ending than something subpar. the tv show presumably using his broad concept of how to end it and then having it go over like a lead balloon has probably not helped - why churn something out that the fans will just hate?
Then he's free to write a different ending.
P10 already answered why he won't--he doesn't want to churn out something the fans will just hate.
The broad ending points of the show are what he's been going for from the start, it's the journey to get there that's rocky, and he's been laying the groundwork for some of it in the text of the books since, at the latest, the first Eddard chapter. For him to change it for the sake of getting it done is no different than pulling bullshit out of his ass for the sake of surprising the audience, which, as the show demonstrated, people will quickly suss out as being bullshit he just pulled out of his ass.
(the thumbnail tries to imply that it's about Martin hating the show and the outcome of the Battle of Winterfell in particular, but it's really about him emphasizing how important the payoff part of "planting and payoff" is)
So given a choice between "never finishing my magnum opus" and "tainting my magnum opus by taking the easy way out", I imagine he's stubbornly sticking to option 1.
Shadowen on
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MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
i mean, the crapped out ghost written version of the final books already exists, its the tv show's final seasons.
my arm chair psychologist take is that martin's only motivation at this point is to provide a good and satisfying ending to the series for the fans, but he doesn't know how to do that, and he would rather release no ending than something subpar. the tv show presumably using his broad concept of how to end it and then having it go over like a lead balloon has probably not helped - why churn something out that the fans will just hate?
Then he's free to write a different ending.
P10 already answered why he won't--he doesn't want to churn out something the fans will just hate.
The broad ending points of the show are what he's been going for from the start, it's the journey to get there that's rocky, and he's been laying the groundwork for some of it in the text of the books since, at the latest, the first Eddard chapter. For him to change it for the sake of getting it done is no different than pulling bullshit out of his ass for the sake of surprising the audience, which, as the show demonstrated, people will quickly suss out as being bullshit he just pulled out of his ass.
(the thumbnail tries to imply that it's about Martin hating the show and the outcome of the Battle of Winterfell in particular, but it's really about him emphasizing how important the payoff part of "planting and payoff" is)
So given a choice between "never finishing my magnum opus" and "tainting my magnum opus by taking the easy way out", I imagine he's stubbornly sticking to option 1.
Martin has often said he's a "gardener" kind of writer, the kind that lays seeds and watches how the story grows, as opposed to the "architect" kind that starts writing with a clear and solid plan in place. Sure he's got the seeds for the ending we saw on TV (well, you saw, I never even bothered watching season 8), but that doesn't mean it's how the story will work out. The story could grow organically in many different directions.
And anyway, even if he gets to the same ending as the TV show, the fact he'll get there through a natural and well-developed way rather than the "oh, bells, guess I'm suddenly evil now!" route the idiot show-writers took will make it a more satisfying ending.
i mean, the crapped out ghost written version of the final books already exists, its the tv show's final seasons.
my arm chair psychologist take is that martin's only motivation at this point is to provide a good and satisfying ending to the series for the fans, but he doesn't know how to do that, and he would rather release no ending than something subpar. the tv show presumably using his broad concept of how to end it and then having it go over like a lead balloon has probably not helped - why churn something out that the fans will just hate?
Then he's free to write a different ending.
P10 already answered why he won't--he doesn't want to churn out something the fans will just hate.
The broad ending points of the show are what he's been going for from the start, it's the journey to get there that's rocky, and he's been laying the groundwork for some of it in the text of the books since, at the latest, the first Eddard chapter. For him to change it for the sake of getting it done is no different than pulling bullshit out of his ass for the sake of surprising the audience, which, as the show demonstrated, people will quickly suss out as being bullshit he just pulled out of his ass.
(the thumbnail tries to imply that it's about Martin hating the show and the outcome of the Battle of Winterfell in particular, but it's really about him emphasizing how important the payoff part of "planting and payoff" is)
So given a choice between "never finishing my magnum opus" and "tainting my magnum opus by taking the easy way out", I imagine he's stubbornly sticking to option 1.
Martin has often said he's a "gardener" kind of writer, the kind that lays seeds and watches how the story grows, as opposed to the "architect" kind that starts writing with a clear and solid plan in place. Sure he's got the seeds for the ending we saw on TV (well, you saw, I never even bothered watching season 8), but that doesn't mean it's how the story will work out. The story could grow organically in many different directions.
And anyway, even if he gets to the same ending as the TV show, the fact he'll get there through a natural and well-developed way rather than the "oh, bells, guess I'm suddenly evil now!" route the idiot show-writers took will make it a more satisfying ending.
There are many different ways the story could end and still feel true to the build-up, characters, and themes.
He could pick one of them.
Or have a better path towards the one we saw on the show, of course. But if, now that he's seen it (and fan reactions), he doesn't want it to end that way, he's a good enough writer that he can change it and not have it feel forced.
In a shocking turn of events, GRRM says he's way behind on TWoW.
Wayer behinder than he already was, I assume.
I personally enjoy how he blames it on feeling obligated to maintain his blog.
Literally neither of these things was said.
"Somehow, though, over the decades, the Not A Blog became a blog, and what I had intended as a occasional pleasure and a way to stay in touch with my readers has become a Blog (ironically, at the same time as everyone else was abandoning their blogs for Facebook and Twitter), complete with a sense of obligation. And when a lot of stuff happens very fast, I fall further and further behind.
I am hugely behind right now, and the prospect of trying to catch up is feeling increasingly oppressive."
From what I've heard, however, Rothfuss has yet to actually write anything. He apparently can't even bring himself to put pen to paper. There's likely some stuff going on there with anxiety, etc.
GRRM has hundreds of pages written but can't figure out how to finish it all or put it all together for the next volume. I really think he needs to just bite the bullet and let an editor go to town on what he has thus far and to guide him in a direction to get to the finish line. It's evident based on the last two volumes that his books have sprawled out of control and he doesn't seem to have an internal mechanism to pare things down. He should let someone else jump in and help him, instead of struggling by himself.
I have no idea how tolkien managed to get a finished story out of the mountain he had good god
LOTR is like how fandom has given literally every character in Star Wars a 20 page backstory, only Tolkien actually did and he also wrote it
From what I've heard, however, Rothfuss has yet to actually write anything. He apparently can't even bring himself to put pen to paper. There's likely some stuff going on there with anxiety, etc.
GRRM has hundreds of pages written but can't figure out how to finish it all or put it all together for the next volume. I really think he needs to just bite the bullet and let an editor go to town on what he has thus far and to guide him in a direction to get to the finish line. It's evident based on the last two volumes that his books have sprawled out of control and he doesn't seem to have an internal mechanism to pare things down. He should let someone else jump in and help him, instead of struggling by himself.
I have no idea how tolkien managed to get a finished story out of the mountain he had good god
LOTR is like how fandom has given literally every character in Star Wars a 20 page backstory, only Tolkien actually did and he also wrote it
No-one was really hassling Tolkien for LOTR (except maybe his publisher) so he could afford to take his time. Also Tolkien's characters are quite simple: it's their genealogies that are complicated!
It can be true that GRRM does not owe me a conclusion/additional books to the series I have enjoyed and that it is getting obnoxious how little progress he has made.
It's a meme for a reason, the man isn't just "behind", he hasn't finished a book in his most popular series in 10 years.
His blog is such a lame excuse too, Stephen King has time to write profusely and make fun of Republicans on Twitter all the live long day.
I was in his corner when it had been just a few years since Dance. 10 years is some DNF shit, though.
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A large battle in the war of the roses period was 30,000 troops.
A large battle of the diodachi wars was closer to 50,000 troops.
A large battle during the 3 kingdoms period was about a quarter million troops...unless you listen to Cao Cao and it was closer to a million.
The biggest battle in the war of the roses had around 25,000 or so on each side...
England also only had 3 million or so people at the time, Han China had 50 million (though after the 3 kingdoms period it was down to about a 3rd of that and wouldn’t completely recover until the Tang Dynasty, which says something about how crazy that period was).
This was something I remember thinking was neat in Wheel of Time. There were plenty of comments on how much larger armies had been hundreds or a thousand years ago and across the series there was a gradual ramp-up in terms of the size of various armies fighting.
Wayer behinder than he already was, I assume.
I personally enjoy how he blames it on feeling obligated to maintain his blog.
So, a due date of "never" is now "never plus twelve to eighteen months"?
~ Buckaroo Banzai
The Winds of Winter is a book GRRM wants to have written, but doesn't want to write.
He's vehemently opposed to someone else finishing his baby, and he's vehemently opposed to doing so himself.
Like I said before: Real artists ship.
The series was originally planned to be three books long.
10% he'll finish it, 90% he won't, 0% he'll finish another after (if) he finishes TWoW.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
GRRM has hundreds of pages written but can't figure out how to finish it all or put it all together for the next volume. I really think he needs to just bite the bullet and let an editor go to town on what he has thus far and to guide him in a direction to get to the finish line. It's evident based on the last two volumes that his books have sprawled out of control and he doesn't seem to have an internal mechanism to pare things down. He should let someone else jump in and help him, instead of struggling by himself.
I believe he also posted a picture of the third one's first draft, or at least a pile of paper with the title page of the first one on top. It seems to have been a lie of sorts.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
tbh I'd put Star Citizen hitting full release 5+ years before TWoW comes out. Maybe 10+.
At least one of those projects has shown something resembling progress :P
Neither needs to finish what they started to keep getting paid, and they won't.
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That’s not being behind, that’s not wanting publish. He’s published nine other books since announcing Winds of Winter.
Honestly just pay a ghostwriter at this point. Crap it out. Stop being weird.
my arm chair psychologist take is that martin's only motivation at this point is to provide a good and satisfying ending to the series for the fans, but he doesn't know how to do that, and he would rather release no ending than something subpar. the tv show presumably using his broad concept of how to end it and then having it go over like a lead balloon has probably not helped - why churn something out that the fans will just hate?
Then he's free to write a different ending.
I figure he just doesn't want to work on it anymore, and simply doesn't want the headache (and likely threats, cause "internet"), that come with that if he admits it.
So he's left it as a Pulp Fiction briefcase. Noone gets to see what's inside, but they're left to imagine what could have been.
P10 already answered why he won't--he doesn't want to churn out something the fans will just hate.
The broad ending points of the show are what he's been going for from the start, it's the journey to get there that's rocky, and he's been laying the groundwork for some of it in the text of the books since, at the latest, the first Eddard chapter. For him to change it for the sake of getting it done is no different than pulling bullshit out of his ass for the sake of surprising the audience, which, as the show demonstrated, people will quickly suss out as being bullshit he just pulled out of his ass.
(the thumbnail tries to imply that it's about Martin hating the show and the outcome of the Battle of Winterfell in particular, but it's really about him emphasizing how important the payoff part of "planting and payoff" is)
So given a choice between "never finishing my magnum opus" and "tainting my magnum opus by taking the easy way out", I imagine he's stubbornly sticking to option 1.
Literally neither of these things was said.
Martin has often said he's a "gardener" kind of writer, the kind that lays seeds and watches how the story grows, as opposed to the "architect" kind that starts writing with a clear and solid plan in place. Sure he's got the seeds for the ending we saw on TV (well, you saw, I never even bothered watching season 8), but that doesn't mean it's how the story will work out. The story could grow organically in many different directions.
And anyway, even if he gets to the same ending as the TV show, the fact he'll get there through a natural and well-developed way rather than the "oh, bells, guess I'm suddenly evil now!" route the idiot show-writers took will make it a more satisfying ending.
There are many different ways the story could end and still feel true to the build-up, characters, and themes.
He could pick one of them.
Or have a better path towards the one we saw on the show, of course. But if, now that he's seen it (and fan reactions), he doesn't want it to end that way, he's a good enough writer that he can change it and not have it feel forced.
Alt Shift X looks at the Iceberg and Fireberg Theories Berg
"Somehow, though, over the decades, the Not A Blog became a blog, and what I had intended as a occasional pleasure and a way to stay in touch with my readers has become a Blog (ironically, at the same time as everyone else was abandoning their blogs for Facebook and Twitter), complete with a sense of obligation. And when a lot of stuff happens very fast, I fall further and further behind.
I am hugely behind right now, and the prospect of trying to catch up is feeling increasingly oppressive."
I have no idea how tolkien managed to get a finished story out of the mountain he had good god
LOTR is like how fandom has given literally every character in Star Wars a 20 page backstory, only Tolkien actually did and he also wrote it
No-one was really hassling Tolkien for LOTR (except maybe his publisher) so he could afford to take his time. Also Tolkien's characters are quite simple: it's their genealogies that are complicated!
It's a meme for a reason, the man isn't just "behind", he hasn't finished a book in his most popular series in 10 years.
His blog is such a lame excuse too, Stephen King has time to write profusely and make fun of Republicans on Twitter all the live long day.
I was in his corner when it had been just a few years since Dance. 10 years is some DNF shit, though.