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[A Song of Firegames and Icethrones] We all hated it

AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
edited April 13 in Debate and/or Discourse
Game of Thrones is (was) a television program on HBO, based off the never-completed series of books, A Song of Ice and Fire. It ran eight seasons and was very popular despite not being a very well-written show, largely due to compelling characters, thrilling battles, and lots of titties dragons.

Everyone tried really hard to do a good job, but sometimes it just wasn’t enough. The size of the story became too unwieldy for short-series TV, and in trying to both tell coherent stories and ensure much of the novels’ dense errata made it to screen, ultimately it satisfied neither aim. Fans of the written series were miffed by the omission of vital context, characters, and lore, while fans of good TV were put off by the clunky handling of storylines and character arcs, with many characters meeting trivial ends while others seemed to be almost forgotten entirely.

Still, we all liked the wolves, and I guess the good guys won in the end.

I give it 3 Battlestars out of 5.

Atomika on
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Posts

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    How many Battlestars did BSG get?

    ArbitraryDescriptorOrcaThawmuszepherin
  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    How many Battlestars did BSG get?

    5 out of 5 Battlestars, but only 11 out of 12 Cylons

    physi_marcElJeffeCouscousThawmusDark Raven XWraith260chrono_travellerscherbchenShadowenjakobaggerDrezJazzFencingsaxEddymysticjuicerMancingtomGiantGeek2020BlackDragon480
  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    I'm not sure if I think they should have been more explicit about Grey Worm's traumatic upbringing being behind his treatment of prisoners.

    He and all the other Unsullied had to strangle the puppy they had raised. They had to murder a baby. They were trained to do whatever they were ordered, no matter how horrible.

    They were liberated, and got (terrible, violent) vengeance on their former masters, but that's not going to fix the trauma they had. They all needed years of therapy, and instead they got years of war. Including a war against nightmarish monsters and an unstoppable zombie horde.

    Grey Worm personally dealt with further trauma as Missandei was captured and brutally executed, which is the aspect they chose to accentuate. And I'm not sure it was better or worse to handle it that way.

    I've seen some people upset with the character, but then even an explicit nod to this history would be lost on a lot of people.

    CelestialBadgerSiskaJulius
  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    edited May 2019
    I've got to say, the move to Elective Gavelkind is probably a good move for Westeros. The +20 opinion buff to all vassals is huge and the only downside is an opinion malus to your kids, and since Bran doesn't have any and never will there is literally no down side. Its a shame the Petty Kingdom of the North took the opportunity to declare independence, but Bran's got to be close to his vassal limit as it is, and at least with the Queen of the North being his sister they should remain civil. He'll still have a strong claim to the North that he can press later if necessary.

    All in all, some good Crusader Kings II strategy from Bran the Broken, long may he reign!

    Mr Ray on
    Space.
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    The internet has been very slow with producing Bran Keikaku memes and I am disappointed.

    monikerSeal
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »

    Funny. But list harmed by presence of Malazan Book of the Fallen (dogshit; didn't finish reading) and Wheel of Time (also dogshit; hate-finished reading).

    Fight me.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
    CelestialBadger38thDoe
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »


    Cool. Now finish the goddamn books already!

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
    Orca38thDoe
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »

    Funny. But list harmed by presence of Malazan Book of the Fallen (dogshit; didn't finish reading) and Wheel of Time (also dogshit; hate-finished reading).

    Fight me.

    Wheel feels like it's cheating, they called in a replacement author.

    List gets points for including Danial Abraham's Dagger and the Coin, even though I can't remember now how it ends. Just that I didn't hate it. The Long Price quartet had a good ending though.

    [Expletive deleted]SmrtnikKana
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I heard CIA Director Gina Haspel had a cameo last episode can anyone find it

  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I only read 1.5 Wheel of Time books and I liked them but there's just an impossible amount of them now.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    WoT's middle has a bunch of unnecessary stuff, but I'm mildly interested in the upcoming tv series.

    Malazan I loved, even though it got a but navel-gazey towards the end. Ending to the series is great, though. I also readily recognize that series isn't for everyone, though.

    Cauld
  • CaptainPeacockCaptainPeacock Board Game Hoarder Top o' the LakeRegistered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    I heard CIA Director Gina Haspel had a cameo last episode can anyone find it

    Probably torturing a prisoner

    Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    I heard CIA Director Gina Haspel had a cameo last episode can anyone find it

    Should have been Master of Whisperers!

    Smrtnik
  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    I would like to know who the 3 random dudes at the council vote were.

  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    4 if you include the gentleman who is obviously the prince of dorne.

    durandal4532Smrtnik
  • PerduraboPerdurabo Leeds, UKRegistered User regular
    This show should be like Coronation St, with a continuous storyline. 10 episodes a season forever, with new showrunners every season.

    Jazz
  • PerduraboPerdurabo Leeds, UKRegistered User regular
    Prince of Dorne, Sweet Robin and Steve from accounts.

    monikerBlackDragon480Julius
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Sweet Robin really stood on the gas through puberty I guess.

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  • CaptainPeacockCaptainPeacock Board Game Hoarder Top o' the LakeRegistered User regular
    All that milk

    Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
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  • bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    "So i greensighted my kingdom, i was finally there, to sit on my throne as the king with no heir"

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  • ColanutColanut Siedge WealdRegistered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Kruite wrote: »
    I would like to know who the 3 random dudes at the council vote were.

    I would guess Howland Reed next to Tully, a dude from White Harbor next to the Vale guys, maybe. I cant think of any other relevant minor houses in the area of the Reach or Cape Wrath that were mentioned. Maybe a rando from Highgarden or the Arbor.

    There was also a new guy in furs from the north, maybe the new Bear Island leader.

    Colanut on
    Smrtnik
  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    Mr Ray wrote: »
    I've got to say, the move to Elective Gavelkind is probably a good move for Westeros. The +20 opinion buff to all vassals is huge and the only downside is an opinion malus to your kids, and since Bran doesn't have any and never will there is literally no down side. Its a shame the Petty Kingdom of the North took the opportunity to declare independence, but Bran's got to be close to his vassal limit as it is, and at least with the Queen of the North being his sister they should remain civil. He'll still have a strong claim to the North that he can press later if necessary.

    All in all, some good Crusader Kings II strategy from Bran the Broken, long may he reign!

    I think it's technically an Elective Monoarchy, but since Rob Stark created a new kingdom title and didn't rule it for the 10 years required to change succession laws, the North was stuck on Gavelkind which is why it split off even after Jon Snow became a vassal of Dany. Also I think Dany was only ever an adventurer anyway since she had the throne for all of 15 minutes before she died to an assassination plot with only two backers.

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  • SlortexSlortex In my chairRegistered User regular
    Pretty sure one of them was the kid from Iron Man 3.

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    bwanie wrote: »
    "So i greensighted my kingdom, i was finally there, to sit on my throne as the king with no heir"

    DA KINGWIFNOAIR!

    bwaniemysticjuicerKadoken
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »

    It kind of sounds like he's saying that his own story isn't going to be that different from what the show did (which I assume was based on his outlines). If it's all the same story beats with some extra plotlines I would be disappointed, but I guess it would help me to overwrite the plot of the last two seasons in my brain.

    moniker
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    That GRRM blog link doesn't work for me.

    I'm sure Martin would do a better job of the same plot. For a start, in the books, Dany isn't as much of an audience identification figure as in the show, and going bad slowly over time would work better. And I'm sure that he won't skim over the sinister implications of an immortal demi-god as king.

    The show should have done its own ending, recognising that it had diverged from the source material too much. A bog-standard "We are 7 kingdoms again!" would have worked.

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  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    The GRRM blog link seems to work after some number of refreshes.

    MorganV[Expletive deleted]
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    That GRRM blog link doesn't work for me.

    I'm sure Martin would do a better job of the same plot. For a start, in the books, Dany isn't as much of an audience identification figure as in the show, and going bad slowly over time would work better. And I'm sure that he won't skim over the sinister implications of an immortal demi-god as king.

    The show should have done its own ending, recognising that it had diverged from the source material too much. A bog-standard "We are 7 kingdoms again!" would have worked.

    Yeah, independence for the North just going over without a word from Yara or Dorne is just...not going to happen.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    The ending might be bad, but the memes are good.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    I wish I could meme.

    First panel - Jon and Arya, Season 1, Ep 1 "First lesson: Stick them with the pointy end." "I know which end to use."
    Second panel - Jon and Dany, Season 8, Ep 6.
    Third panel - Arya looking (preferably at Jon, though that might be hard) with amusement, or a knowing look. Possibly the scene from when Arya and Sandor get to the Vale and Arya loses her shit.

    That'd be the one I'd make.

    H3Knuckles
  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    Remember when Weiss and Benioff kept mentioning the series ending would be bittersweet, but then all the good guys win without any repercussions or losses?

    Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
    monikerSmrtnikRozH3Knuckles
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    It was GRRM that said that first.

    And put into context of his quote its holds true.
    There are some people who read and want to believe in a world where the good guys win and the bad guys lose, and at the end they live happily ever after. That’s not the kind of fiction that I write. Tolkien was not that. The scouring of the Shire proved that. Frodo’s sadness – that was a bittersweet ending, which to my mind was far more powerful than the ending of Star Wars, where all the happy Ewoks are jumping around, and the ghosts of all the dead people appear, waving happily [laughs]. But I understand where the other people are coming from. There are a lot of books out there. Let everyone find the kind of book that speaks to them, and speaks to what they need emotionally.

    SmrtnikJuliusKana
  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »


    Cool. Now finish the goddamn books already!

    In his blog he's talking about how he's in the middle of like 5 TV shows right now. He says the books are still coming, but.....

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    monikerSmrtnikColanut38thDoe
  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Meera Reed deserves something for dragging the future king's ass around the Far North for a few seasons.

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Never pre-order anything. Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »


    Cool. Now finish the goddamn books already!

    In his blog he's talking about how he's in the middle of like 5 TV shows right now. He says the books are still coming, but.....

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  • A Half Eaten OreoA Half Eaten Oreo Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »


    Cool. Now finish the goddamn books already!

    In his blog he's talking about how he's in the middle of like 5 TV shows right now. He says the books are still coming, but.....

    And a video game!

  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    Maybe he’s just McDucking it in his money silo, knowing he’ll never need to finish because when he dies they’ll just get Kevin J. Anderson to do it.

    H3Knuckles
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Never pre-order anything. Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    Maybe he’s just McDucking it in his money silo, knowing he’ll never need to finish because when he dies they’ll just get Kevin J. Anderson to do it.

    He's already said nobody else will work on them after he passes.

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    MorganVTurambarInquisitor77
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