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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    MrMister wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    a
    credeiki wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    "On one side, people were murdering abortion doctors, on the other people were getting pregnant to sell the stem cells," is apparently something a character in that YA novel says in order to explain how both sides were bad.

    Note that one of these things actually happens, and the other is a fever dream of what people think happens

    Also, getting pregnant in order to sell stem cells would be fine (??)

    Yeah, I'm curious about a counter argument that is not abortion-based

    The counter-argument is that it creates a shitty choice for poor people (to take on bodily risk for money). Sort of like why people think it’s not good to sell your own organs, because it results in a society where if you are destitute you are almost encouraged to sell your life and health (...instead of just slowly chipping away at it via hard labor, cheap unhealthy food, bad healthcare, etc)

    SIDEBAR:

    At its heart this is a policy engineering problem, though, and people who make the "exploiting the poor" argument rarely treat it as such.

    For instance, if the state set up a licensed agency as the single purchaser and redistributor of kidneys, and set a price floor of $100,000 per kidney, the supply of aspiring donors would vastly exceed the demand for kidneys--resulting in a system where donors would need to be chosen e.g. by lottery. In such a system, there would be plenty of kidneys, at a price affordable by the health system, but there would be limited potential for any individual poor person to be pressured into donation because in fact almost no one who wanted to donate would be able to. ($100,000 is a number where majorities of people including affluent people say that would be interested in donation).

    Anyway though basically no one who opposes organ sales on exploiting the poor grounds considers potential solutions along such lines or really policy details generally because it usually turns out to be a thinly coded way of saying that it just feels icky.

    You're talking about an industry forming around desperate people. If a poor person is getting $100K from selling, an industry forms and the kidneys/stem cells/life-giving widgets are sold by third parties to the rich for $500K. The potential for big profit means the life-giving widgets will be stored and preserved even if they're not needed.

    No, I'm describing a system where third party sales would still be illegal

    5xrpgeaz7vrp.jpg

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Car should be ready for MOT tomorrow.

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    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    a
    credeiki wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    "On one side, people were murdering abortion doctors, on the other people were getting pregnant to sell the stem cells," is apparently something a character in that YA novel says in order to explain how both sides were bad.

    Note that one of these things actually happens, and the other is a fever dream of what people think happens

    Also, getting pregnant in order to sell stem cells would be fine (??)

    Yeah, I'm curious about a counter argument that is not abortion-based

    The counter-argument is that it creates a shitty choice for poor people (to take on bodily risk for money). Sort of like why people think it’s not good to sell your own organs, because it results in a society where if you are destitute you are almost encouraged to sell your life and health (...instead of just slowly chipping away at it via hard labor, cheap unhealthy food, bad healthcare, etc)

    SIDEBAR:

    At its heart this is a policy engineering problem, though, and people who make the "exploiting the poor" argument rarely treat it as such.

    For instance, if the state set up a licensed agency as the single purchaser and redistributor of kidneys, and set a price floor of $100,000 per kidney, the supply of aspiring donors would vastly exceed the demand for kidneys--resulting in a system where donors would need to be chosen e.g. by lottery. In such a system, there would be plenty of kidneys, at a price affordable by the health system, but there would be limited potential for any individual poor person to be pressured into donation because in fact almost no one who wanted to donate would be able to. ($100,000 is a number where majorities of people including affluent people say that would be interested in donation).

    Anyway though basically no one who opposes organ sales on exploiting the poor grounds considers potential solutions along such lines or really policy details generally because it usually turns out to be a thinly coded way of saying that it just feels icky.

    You're talking about an industry forming around desperate people. If a poor person is getting $100K from selling, an industry forms and the kidneys/stem cells/life-giving widgets are sold by third parties to the rich for $500K. The potential for big profit means the life-giving widgets will be stored and preserved even if they're not needed.

    No, I'm describing a system where third party sales would still be illegal

    5xrpgeaz7vrp.jpg

    this makes no sense

    sig.gif
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    Kid PresentableKid Presentable Registered User regular
    I'd sell a kidney for $100k tonight

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    Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    I want some stem cells

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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    I am comfortable enough and anxious enough about surgery that I would not sell a kidney for $100k, maybe not for any price.

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    Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    they'll start putting stem cells in drinks and snacks like CBD

    does it do anything? maybe???

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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    I want some stem cells

    Swab an engineer's mouth while he's sleeping.

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    GethGeth Legion Perseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
    This thread is no longer active, and will be recycled.
    On average, this thread was blasting along at warp 1

    @emnmnme will create the new thread
    @emnmnme is backup

This discussion has been closed.