Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I am personally interested in what the heck happened in the bastion universe after the game ended.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Well, made it past Theseus and Asterius (also faced Asterius in a different room earlier) using a really weird build that emphasized stacking powerful Dooms on enemies with rapid-fire regular Attacks from across the room. I've also finally figured out I should be throwing out my Casts because I do more damage when they're embedded in an enemy. Got through the next area and went up to meet the person I knew was going to be there. Managed to take out his first health bar but of course he's got a second one and all my HP is already depleted so I die pretty quick. Went and took a look at my stats and took me 14 runs to get to that point.
I never really feel very strong when ascending to Elysium and beyond though. Even with that build I'd be whacking an enemy from behind and keeping them stunlocked as their health bar slowly goes down over five seconds. And if they've got a shield it takes a while to break through, especially if they've got friends. Not sure if that's because I haven't unlocked Aspects yet or if the build was just weak.
I haven’t done a fresh save since 1.0 dropped, but I feel like the game is not as difficult as it was in EA. Like, when elysium was the end game, I remember that shit being real fucking hard
I don't know if the zones themselves are that different, but they definitely tuned the zone bosses to be harder when they were the temporary final bosses. I started playing when they added Elysium and it used to be that after killing the Minotaur then exploding suicide chariots would continue spawning in to help Theseus, thank god that didn't stay around.
mosssnackYeah right, man, Bishop should go!Good idea!Registered Userregular
Haha I definitely don’t remember the exploding chariots. But, I think I only cleared once when elysium was the final area.
Like straightzi already mentioned, it’s hard to judge for me as well. I didn’t have a good grasp of weapon/boon interactions when I started playing. Not to mention enemy movesets, keepsakes, which paths were nominal, keeping your casts empty, etc. that alone would probably let me truck it through most of the game on a fresh save
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The JudgeThe Terwilliger CurvesRegistered Userregular
It's very funny to me whenever other folks celebrate how long it took them to best the final boss when it took me over a hundred tries (arguably over two hundred)
Twenty two runs is probably like how long it took me to get to Meg
Right there with you to the point where we should be commiserating over a bottle of Ambrosia in the lounge.
Last pint: Turmoil CDA / Barley Brown's - Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
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BaidolI will hold him offEscape while you canRegistered Userregular
Well, made it past Theseus and Asterius (also faced Asterius in a different room earlier) using a really weird build that emphasized stacking powerful Dooms on enemies with rapid-fire regular Attacks from across the room. I've also finally figured out I should be throwing out my Casts because I do more damage when they're embedded in an enemy. Got through the next area and went up to meet the person I knew was going to be there. Managed to take out his first health bar but of course he's got a second one and all my HP is already depleted so I die pretty quick. Went and took a look at my stats and took me 14 runs to get to that point.
I never really feel very strong when ascending to Elysium and beyond though. Even with that build I'd be whacking an enemy from behind and keeping them stunlocked as their health bar slowly goes down over five seconds. And if they've got a shield it takes a while to break through, especially if they've got friends. Not sure if that's because I haven't unlocked Aspects yet or if the build was just weak.
You'll get generally more powerful with aspects/higher level keepsakes/darkness unlocks, but also some abilities are better against groups of enemies and some are better against bosses, and as you get a better understanding for the abilities you'll be able to put together builds that work against both.
It's very funny to me whenever other folks celebrate how long it took them to best the final boss when it took me over a hundred tries (arguably over two hundred)
Twenty two runs is probably like how long it took me to get to Meg
It took me 44 runs for my first win, which is like double what a lot of people brag about.
I may not be naturally good at the game, but I'm persistent, which I think counts for something.
I beat my first run around 32, 33 so I’ll call that moderate success. I’m close to 50 runs now and I’d say my clip is now I’m beating 2 out of every 3 runs, and honestly for most of those wins it’s entirely whether or not I luck out and get to put Chill on my weapons
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
I got the hidden rail aspect and it absolutely whips ass, I got one of my fastest final boss kills with it because I got a bunch of attack focused doom boons (high damage doom, damage from doom stacks, activation delay) and then I got the boon that makes the hidden rail aspect fire faster so I could unload a full clip before the doom triggered and chunk him out for 700+ damage at a time
The most degenerate final boss kill I've gotten so far was with aphrodite call and the aphrodite/zeus boon that makes your call charge automatically but caps it at 25% so I had him charmed at least half the time, and that boss fight goes way faster when you dont have to spend time dodging
my first clear happened at like run 3 because I got a ridiculous set of poseidon / zeus boons
then I had to do another like 15 runs to beat it again
How does that work with the story stuff?
Like, I didn't learn the Persephone backstory until at least a half dozen runs in with either of my save files. Does that happen earlier if you're doing well at the game, or did you make it outside without knowing the reason why you're trying to get there?
I've been kind of waiting for when someone really good at the game starts a new save and beats it on their first run, because there has to be some weird little easter egg for that.
Does anyone else always use whatever weapon has Dark Thirst on it?
The game doesn't want me to use my spear. My second run I got triple stab hammer in the first room, with Athena's attack boon as my first blessing. The game said, "We can't let him do THAT shit again," and has never put Dark Thirst on the spear since
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
That's typically my play as well (which is kind of silly at this point, as I don't really need resources), and yeah, the randomness of Dark Thirst can really suck. I've definitely had times when it just bounces between my least favorite weapons with no reprieve.
my first clear happened at like run 3 because I got a ridiculous set of poseidon / zeus boons
then I had to do another like 15 runs to beat it again
How does that work with the story stuff?
Like, I didn't learn the Persephone backstory until at least a half dozen runs in with either of my save files. Does that happen earlier if you're doing well at the game, or did you make it outside without knowing the reason why you're trying to get there?
I've been kind of waiting for when someone really good at the game starts a new save and beats it on their first run, because there has to be some weird little easter egg for that.
It didn't really change much -
Zagreus is already aware that Persephone is his mother, but the player doesn't know that yet.
Later on you get the two flashbacks when you rest about how Zagreus found out that she had left.
After that the other NPCs will talk more about Persephone and why she left, which seems in line with the normal narrative flow.
Does anyone else always use whatever weapon has Dark Thirst on it?
The game doesn't want me to use my spear. My second run I got triple stab hammer in the first room, with Athena's attack boon as my first blessing. The game said, "We can't let him do THAT shit again," and has never put Dark Thirst on the spear since
Yes because with the mirror upgrades extra darkness=extra healing.
Does anyone else always use whatever weapon has Dark Thirst on it?
The game doesn't want me to use my spear. My second run I got triple stab hammer in the first room, with Athena's attack boon as my first blessing. The game said, "We can't let him do THAT shit again," and has never put Dark Thirst on the spear since
Yes because with the mirror upgrades extra darkness=extra healing.
Room heal is much, much, much better, especially if you're grinding heat and not getting darkness from bosses.
I ate an engineer
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
I'd be fine with Darkness Heal over Room Heal if it weren't for the fourth zone
In the fourth zone you gotta have Room Heal though
I'm on run 15 or 16 and still haven't made it past Elysium yet, the jump in difficulty between Asphodel and Elysium is crazy
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
One of the number one additions I would like to see is like, a between zones hand mirror or something, that lets you swap a couple of randomly selected mirror features to their inverse (at a cost, probably)
Also contract renegotiations for the pact of punishment, in a similar vein - with no way to decrease heat, but swapping things around if they turned out to be real bad or whatever
It’s pretty astounding what a little bit of knowledge can do in regards to runs. A friend of mine was having difficulty beating the Hydra, so I streamed a new save file for him and ran through explaining how I play and my decision making process.
His next run went to the final boss. Lost there, but still.
darunia106J-bob in gamesDeath MountainRegistered Userregular
It's hard for me to imagine using room heal over darkness heal.
I mean it's only +3 health per chamber right? I'd much rather have darkness heal because as a bonus any sources of darkness, including from charon's well, shop, infernal troves, Sisyphus, and bosses you've already beaten, all heal heal you for quite a chunk.
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
edited October 2020
I feel like over the course of a full run they're probably about the same but room healing is more reliable while darkness healing is spikey/rng so I usually go room healing cause I think picking darkness rewards is boring
It's hard for me to imagine using room heal over darkness heal.
I mean it's only +3 health per chamber right? I'd much rather have darkness heal because as a bonus any sources of darkness, including from charon's well, shop, infernal troves, Sisyphus, and bosses you've already beaten, all heal heal you for quite a chunk.
You get no darkness in the last zone, which is the hardest.
You do not get darkness from bosses when chasing heat.
You usually avoid darkness when in runs because it doesn't do anything when maxed out on mirrors and the side boost is less good than gold or a free pom slice.
You don't buy darkness because if you're spending cash on permanent stuff, you're doing so in the last zone for blood or diamonds.
In a given run I get darkness *maybe* twice, and less if I go with "more boons" instead of "more rare boons."
It is a terrible upgrade for playing once you aren't clearing bosses at zero heat with a lot of damage taken.
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I ate an engineer
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Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
Not to mention that you're mostly going to get your darkness (if you're not chasing heat) right after a boss. Since there's a fountain after bosses anyway, there's a significant likelihood that you'll be wasting one of those big lumps of healing. Heal per room is always preferable in my view.
It's either that or the cursed sword hammer upgrade. Reliable healing is so strong.
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darunia106J-bob in gamesDeath MountainRegistered Userregular
Guess I like living on the edge then cuz I still prefer those rng spikes of healing to only getting healed for 3 per room.
Plus you can improve how much darkness heals you by getting buffs to how much darkness you can collect. But I guess that's more rng bs.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Guess I like living on the edge then cuz I still prefer those rng spikes of healing to only getting healed for 3 per room.
Plus you can improve how much darkness heals you by getting buffs to how much darkness you can collect. But I guess that's more rng bs.
I think you're missing the thrust of the argument.
Darkness is not very useful in the lategame, so you are not encouraged to get it as a general rule.
If you are on the bleeding edge of Heat doing runs, you will get very little darkness at all. Even if you do get darkness from bosses, you are double dipping with the charon well after each stage.
You won't get any darkness in biome 4, the hardest biome.
Biome 4, the hardest biome and also the one right before the final boss, has incredible healing from heals per room. Before the final room of each section you can get somewhere around 15+ healing just for clearing out a bunch of fuckmuppets.
Healing per room helps you more in the latter stages of the game and gives you a bigger spike when you tend to need it.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Made it out with the secret rail aspect but I was eating shit the whole way
Used up all my death defiances in Elysium, got them all back from the unique character encounter there, then lost them all again between there and the final boss
I have no idea how to optimize that gun, it feels like it takes forever to kill anything
Guess I like living on the edge then cuz I still prefer those rng spikes of healing to only getting healed for 3 per room.
Plus you can improve how much darkness heals you by getting buffs to how much darkness you can collect. But I guess that's more rng bs.
+400% of zero darkness found on a run is still zero, though.
I ate an engineer
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
If we're using boons to boost our returns on our preferred healing method, then we need to be comparing it to the Demeter boon that turns that +3 per room into a +4 (as well as a lot of other healing benefits, of course)
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I never really feel very strong when ascending to Elysium and beyond though. Even with that build I'd be whacking an enemy from behind and keeping them stunlocked as their health bar slowly goes down over five seconds. And if they've got a shield it takes a while to break through, especially if they've got friends. Not sure if that's because I haven't unlocked Aspects yet or if the build was just weak.
I don't know if the zones themselves are that different, but they definitely tuned the zone bosses to be harder when they were the temporary final bosses. I started playing when they added Elysium and it used to be that after killing the Minotaur then exploding suicide chariots would continue spawning in to help Theseus, thank god that didn't stay around.
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
Like straightzi already mentioned, it’s hard to judge for me as well. I didn’t have a good grasp of weapon/boon interactions when I started playing. Not to mention enemy movesets, keepsakes, which paths were nominal, keeping your casts empty, etc. that alone would probably let me truck it through most of the game on a fresh save
bnet: moss*1454
Right there with you to the point where we should be commiserating over a bottle of Ambrosia in the lounge.
You'll get generally more powerful with aspects/higher level keepsakes/darkness unlocks, but also some abilities are better against groups of enemies and some are better against bosses, and as you get a better understanding for the abilities you'll be able to put together builds that work against both.
This fucking game
1) actually finding out what the big breakup was between the Fury sisters was and fixing it
2) Tisiphone romance option
1. God I wish Theseus would shut up.
2. Dusa is the best
3. Hera's bow goes brrr
It took me 44 runs for my first win, which is like double what a lot of people brag about.
I may not be naturally good at the game, but I'm persistent, which I think counts for something.
The most degenerate final boss kill I've gotten so far was with aphrodite call and the aphrodite/zeus boon that makes your call charge automatically but caps it at 25% so I had him charmed at least half the time, and that boss fight goes way faster when you dont have to spend time dodging
the 1 time is always adamant rail
then I had to do another like 15 runs to beat it again
How does that work with the story stuff?
I've been kind of waiting for when someone really good at the game starts a new save and beats it on their first run, because there has to be some weird little easter egg for that.
The game doesn't want me to use my spear. My second run I got triple stab hammer in the first room, with Athena's attack boon as my first blessing. The game said, "We can't let him do THAT shit again," and has never put Dark Thirst on the spear since
It didn't really change much -
Later on you get the two flashbacks when you rest about how Zagreus found out that she had left.
After that the other NPCs will talk more about Persephone and why she left, which seems in line with the normal narrative flow.
Yeah I always follow dark thirst for that gem boost, but its resulted in being on like heat 6 for the rail only heat 2 for the sword
Yes because with the mirror upgrades extra darkness=extra healing.
Room heal is much, much, much better, especially if you're grinding heat and not getting darkness from bosses.
In the fourth zone you gotta have Room Heal though
Also contract renegotiations for the pact of punishment, in a similar vein - with no way to decrease heat, but swapping things around if they turned out to be real bad or whatever
His next run went to the final boss. Lost there, but still.
I mean it's only +3 health per chamber right? I'd much rather have darkness heal because as a bonus any sources of darkness, including from charon's well, shop, infernal troves, Sisyphus, and bosses you've already beaten, all heal heal you for quite a chunk.
You get no darkness in the last zone, which is the hardest.
You do not get darkness from bosses when chasing heat.
You usually avoid darkness when in runs because it doesn't do anything when maxed out on mirrors and the side boost is less good than gold or a free pom slice.
You don't buy darkness because if you're spending cash on permanent stuff, you're doing so in the last zone for blood or diamonds.
In a given run I get darkness *maybe* twice, and less if I go with "more boons" instead of "more rare boons."
It is a terrible upgrade for playing once you aren't clearing bosses at zero heat with a lot of damage taken.
I got the healing over time duo boon right before Hades and that turned out to be pretty clutch
Plus you can improve how much darkness heals you by getting buffs to how much darkness you can collect. But I guess that's more rng bs.
I think you're missing the thrust of the argument.
Darkness is not very useful in the lategame, so you are not encouraged to get it as a general rule.
If you are on the bleeding edge of Heat doing runs, you will get very little darkness at all. Even if you do get darkness from bosses, you are double dipping with the charon well after each stage.
You won't get any darkness in biome 4, the hardest biome.
Biome 4, the hardest biome and also the one right before the final boss, has incredible healing from heals per room. Before the final room of each section you can get somewhere around 15+ healing just for clearing out a bunch of fuckmuppets.
Healing per room helps you more in the latter stages of the game and gives you a bigger spike when you tend to need it.
Used up all my death defiances in Elysium, got them all back from the unique character encounter there, then lost them all again between there and the final boss
I have no idea how to optimize that gun, it feels like it takes forever to kill anything
+400% of zero darkness found on a run is still zero, though.