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[Star Wars Thread] Solid... I’m going to say analysis?

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    Sometimes I wonder if Star Wars is supposed to be an example of a post-scarcity society that still has poor people and encourages their suffering.

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Who knows, maybe the great Old Republic scientist philosopher Smar T'guy settled the "are droids real people?" debate 10,000 years ago. Maybe they're all just P-zombies that appear to be sentient beings with thoughts and feelings but are actually just automata.

  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    It's tautologically not a post scarcity society if you have poor people suffering due to scarcity.

    If a movement doesn't have someone that can sit down opposite those in a position of power and strike a deal, how can that movement achieve success?
    FencingsaxKanaDarkPrimusCouscous
  • Poor people nothin these space monsters keep slaves! Human chattel! They must all be destroyed prepare the laser guillotines!

  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Not only was the droid in Solo annoying, but the droid is the reason their infiltration in those mines went awry. It was not the time & place to start a revolt! That droid deserved deactivation.
    Poor people nothin these space monsters keep slaves! Human chattel! They must all be destroyed prepare the laser guillotines!
    The Emperor did not protect.

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    Steelhawk
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    A perfect reason why droids should have regular memory wipes.

    Droids, in universe, are tools. Machines to aid civilization. They are not sentient beings. Droids that have gone too long without proper maintenance occasionally develop programming errors. Sometimes those errors result in behaviors that approximate a unique personality.

    Sometimes these errors result in awesomeness (R2-D2) and other times they result in murderous anti-fleshbag killing machines (IG-88, HK-47, a plethora of others)

    At the most generous interpretation, a droid can be considered an animal, but not equivalent to a sentient being.

    manwiththemachinegun
  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Not only was the droid in Solo annoying, but the droid is the reason their infiltration in those mines went awry. It was not the time & place to start a revolt! That droid deserved deactivation.

    If you wait until it's convenient to start a revolt, you'll never start a revolt.

    If a movement doesn't have someone that can sit down opposite those in a position of power and strike a deal, how can that movement achieve success?
    ShadowenNechriahdavidsdurionsyossarian_lives
  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    Kind of incredible there isn’t some autonomous droid world somewhere in Star Wars.

    ...is there an autonomous droid world?

  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    The lightsaber fights work best when they’re eye candy to supplement the emotional or character stuff that’s driving the conflict. RotJ’s climactic fight had relatively little saber on saber contact compared to the verbal interaction between Vader and Luke. That Rebels scene was intense but the sabers were lit for all of maybe 15 seconds.

    It’s like in westerns where the quick draw duel is the iconic action, but that duel takes almost no time and it’s all the other stuff that makes those scenes memorable.

    The Rebels duel draws strongly from classic cinematic samurai duels. Focus on the eyes, the stances, the footwork, the building tension... then a few strikes, one swordsman collapses, and it's over.

    Yeah. There’s good YouTube clips of old samurai movies and it’s exactly like that.

    The main thing is that the fight is secondary to the actual conflict of the ideals that the participant represents. The sword/lightsaber/gun fight is the physical representation of who wins, but the really important stuff happens outside the actual fighting.

    Pretty much every olympic fencing duel also ends in literally seconds. Even seriously IRL sword duels, what little footage there is of them, are very short. Even if both parties are masters of the art, your likelihood of getting stabbed rapidly approaches 100 with every second that passes

    DoodmannTOGSolidFencingsaxmanwiththemachinegunMvrckdavidsdurionsshoeboxjeddy
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    edited November 8
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Who knows, maybe the great Old Republic scientist philosopher Smar T'guy settled the "are droids real people?" debate 10,000 years ago. Maybe they're all just P-zombies that appear to be sentient beings with thoughts and feelings but are actually just automata.

    Droids can't feel the Force, which flows through all living things. They have no midi-chlorian count. This scientifically proves droids are NOT real people with souls.
    and no, Skippy the Jedi Droid is not canon

    Dongs Galore on
    GvzbgulSynthesis
  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    Kind of incredible there isn’t some autonomous droid world somewhere in Star Wars.

    ...is there an autonomous droid world?

    There's been a couple attempts in the EU, of course, but none of them quite work. Probably the closest I can think of right now is Iokath, from The Old Republic game, which isn't actually a planet but a Dyson shell build around a star by a long-dead species, staffed only by droids carrying out their final orders and maintained by a mad AI.

    RchanenBlackDragon480
  • MonwynMonwyn Registered User regular
    Kind of incredible there isn’t some autonomous droid world somewhere in Star Wars.

    ...is there an autonomous droid world?

    In the old EU there was one run by what was effectively a savestate-copy of IG-88

    That short story is like the second-dumbest thing in Star Wars and also one of the most awesome, it's odd

    uH3IcEi.png
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    A perfect reason why droids should have regular memory wipes.

    Droids, in universe, are tools. Machines to aid civilization. They are not sentient beings. Droids that have gone too long without proper maintenance occasionally develop programming errors. Sometimes those errors result in behaviors that approximate a unique personality.

    Sometimes these errors result in awesomeness (R2-D2) and other times they result in murderous anti-fleshbag killing machines (IG-88, HK-47, a plethora of others)


    At the most generous interpretation, a droid can be considered an animal, but not equivalent to a sentient being.

    Okay, but what's the downside of droids with personalities?

    ElvenshaeRchanenLinespider5GONG-00Shadowenyossarian_livesshoeboxjeddyHappy Little MachineboogedybooTheDrifter
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    A perfect reason why droids should have regular memory wipes.

    Droids, in universe, are tools. Machines to aid civilization. They are not sentient beings. Droids that have gone too long without proper maintenance occasionally develop programming errors. Sometimes those errors result in behaviors that approximate a unique personality.

    Sometimes these errors result in awesomeness (R2-D2) and other times they result in murderous anti-fleshbag killing machines (IG-88, HK-47, a plethora of others)


    At the most generous interpretation, a droid can be considered an animal, but not equivalent to a sentient being.

    Okay, but what's the downside of droids with personalities?

    I dunno

    how do you feel about playing against aimbots

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
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  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    I’m partial to the duels with Vader that bookend season 2 of Rebels.

    He treats the crew of the Ghost like children, because to him that's exactly what they are. They only live because Vader wants the Rebel fleet, not them. Which was the smart move anyway.
    Against Ahsoka, he's conflicted for a half second, but then shuts it down hard.

    That shot of Vader to me is the best one illustrating that Anakin Skywalker is dead. He's just an engine of hate and self loathing at that point.

    ElvenshaeMancingtomSteelhawkRchanen
  • sullijosullijo mid-level minion subterranean bunkerRegistered User regular
    Do have have any canonical confirmation that Ahsoka and Obi-Wan communicated post-RotS? It seems likely since Bail Organa serves as a bridge between the two but I’m not aware of anything.

    sig_nextwave.jpg
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    No but with Obi-Wan who knows? I thought the implication was he's in self-exile anyway, and he's definitely not interested in leaving Tatooine.

  • ChaosHatChaosHat HelloooooooooRegistered User regular
    No but with Obi-Wan who knows? I thought the implication was he's in self-exile anyway, and he's definitely not interested in leaving Tatooine.

    Man I hope you're wrong otherwise that show is going to be fuckin terrible.

    "Obi-Wan, you've got to come with us the Rebellion needs you."
    "No I have to stay here. With the boy. And with the sand. He hates the sand you see, it's the only thing that saves us."
    "Well if you're gone for like A week to help us prevent everyone from getting murdered on the planet the sand will still keep the boy safe right?"
    "No I'll just sit here and read. Please bring more magazines next time though."

    Heir
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    A perfect reason why droids should have regular memory wipes.

    Droids, in universe, are tools. Machines to aid civilization. They are not sentient beings. Droids that have gone too long without proper maintenance occasionally develop programming errors. Sometimes those errors result in behaviors that approximate a unique personality.

    Sometimes these errors result in awesomeness (R2-D2) and other times they result in murderous anti-fleshbag killing machines (IG-88, HK-47, a plethora of others)


    At the most generous interpretation, a droid can be considered an animal, but not equivalent to a sentient being.

    Okay, but what's the downside of droids with personalities?

    Totally guilt-free yet cathartic and useful wholesale destruction of dangerous non-living creatures that you can treat as such?

    Wait, you were asking for a downside. I got nothing.
    I’ll never stop thinking about how clones were a massive non-issue for basically everyone ever.

    Less tongue-in-cheek, there's really not a good way to sell "millions of disposable yet sapient cloned war slaves that literally only exist because of military (incompetence)." Like, you know how "slavery" is one of those inherently bad things, and thus the justifications are usually weaselly efforts to suggest it's not slavery, it's "forced labor" or "indentured servitude" or "sharecropping" or something, as though it's not really slavery if it's not a lifelong condition that's passed to one's offspring (in other words, most historic examples of slavery)? "Conscription" is something that is held as a necessary and sometimes even inadvertently beneficial evil, but an evil nonetheless, because of military needs. But conscription literally only works because you aren't forced to be in the military forever. The overall military objective is to not lose all your troops, even if that means sacrificing some. Conscripts are demobilized at some point (if they survive). Cloned war slaves are mobilized (or, in some minds, "enslaved") until they die (if they survive). And you use some weird justification like "Well, they were born to do it" to help ease the conscious?

    Making droids--advanced, capable tools--capable of genuinely feeling pain and suffering as disposable combat troops is just stupid (and cruel, but mostly stupid). There's an argument against any robotic being needing to feel pain or suffering, because not everyone agrees "a more human-like tool" is an inherent good, even if you aren't building it to be destroyed. When the point is for it to carry a weapon and die in battle, and it is very obviously no more capable because you've made it more human by being able to feel pain, you're entering "I did it for the lulz" territory.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
    Linespider5
  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    I kind of assumed Obi-Wan was low-key turning the region around Uncle Owen’s moisture farm into the safest goddamn inhabited hectare of sand in all of Tattooine by fucking up any would-be threats that would think about bringing harm to the surrounding area.

    Linespider5 on
    HeirElvenshae
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    No but with Obi-Wan who knows? I thought the implication was he's in self-exile anyway, and he's definitely not interested in leaving Tatooine.

    Man I hope you're wrong otherwise that show is going to be fuckin terrible.

    "Obi-Wan, you've got to come with us the Rebellion needs you."
    "No I have to stay here. With the boy. And with the sand. He hates the sand you see, it's the only thing that saves us."
    "Well if you're gone for like A week to help us prevent everyone from getting murdered on the planet the sand will still keep the boy safe right?"
    "No I'll just sit here and read. Please bring more magazines next time though."

    "Hey, Kenobi, how goes training up that next Jedi in the ways of the force so he can stand a chance of not dying horribly to his insane cyborg murder monster of a father that's terrorizing the galaxy?
    "Oh, yeah, I been meaning to get on that.
    "Dude? It's been 15 years
    "I know, I know... but I've almost perfected my krayt dragon impression. Really kills at desert hermit parties.
    "So... training the boy?
    "Maybe next week, I just got a really full plate of desert hermit stuff. Look at my schedule: Scare tusken raiders, meditate for three days straight, check the vaporator, maybe scare the tusken raiders again..., I am just slammed.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    OrcaBlackDragon480Linespider5HeirNightslyrMancingtomJoolanderElvenshaeboogedybooTheDrifter
  • Obi-Wan cannot abandon his desert hermitage because the isolation is the only thing keeping him from falling off the wagon into a bottomless hole of space heroin

    KanaRchanenGvzbgulJoolanderHefflingmanwiththemachinegun
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    I kind of assumed Obi-Wan was low-key turning the region around Uncle Owen’s moisture farm into the safest goddamn inhabited hectare of sand in all of Tattooine by fucking up any would-be threats that would think about bringing harm to the surrounding area.

    This is even funnier when you think about how, a long time ago (in a country far, far away, when I first learned about Star Wars) Obi-Wan Kenobi was Owen Lars' disaffected older brother, and that's how Luke ended up with him.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
    RchanenHeirElvenshae
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Obi-Wan cannot abandon his desert hermitage because the isolation is the only thing keeping him from falling off the wagon into a bottomless hole of space heroin

    Wanna buy some Death Sticks?

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    Elvenshae
  • ChaosHatChaosHat HelloooooooooRegistered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    No but with Obi-Wan who knows? I thought the implication was he's in self-exile anyway, and he's definitely not interested in leaving Tatooine.

    Man I hope you're wrong otherwise that show is going to be fuckin terrible.

    "Obi-Wan, you've got to come with us the Rebellion needs you."
    "No I have to stay here. With the boy. And with the sand. He hates the sand you see, it's the only thing that saves us."
    "Well if you're gone for like A week to help us prevent everyone from getting murdered on the planet the sand will still keep the boy safe right?"
    "No I'll just sit here and read. Please bring more magazines next time though."

    "Hey, Kenobi, how goes training up that next Jedi in the ways of the force so he can stand a chance of not dying horribly to his insane cyborg murder monster of a father that's terrorizing the galaxy?
    "Oh, yeah, I been meaning to get on that.
    "Dude? It's been 15 years
    "I know, I know... but I've almost perfected my krayt dragon impression. Really kills at desert hermit parties.
    "So... training the boy?
    "Maybe next week, I just got a really full plate of desert hermit stuff. Look at my schedule: Scare tusken raiders, meditate for three days straight, check the vaporator, maybe scare the tusken raiders again..., I am just slammed.

    I like to think Obi-Wan is just bored so he's been spending time writing a script and the Rebellion stops asking him because every time they come by he just asks them if they want to read it and getting really angry when they provide critical notes but at least could they just take it to a producer or something.

  • I like to imagine death sticks just kill you, like instantly, like you see something that is just a little too stupid like a shaved Ewok in a little suit and you go "fuck it" and spark up a death stick

  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    Man, it was an awfully good thing that the Caminoan clone masters were content to languidly drift around the elegant corridors of their oceanic stormworld and not, you know, decide their peoplemaker tech was a sign they should steamroll the Galaxy.

    Although now I’m wondering, if you’re gonna make an army of clones, why clone humans? Or was Jango such a middle of the road sociopath he was an innately perfect template for producing a proficient military force that would also follow orders forever?

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    In my head cannon clone planet had to seriously ramp up for the wars and that before that they were building slaves. As clones would have none of the records associated with a free born human.

    This is also how they will justify the Clone Reys that are inevitably coming in ep9

    wbBv3fj.png
  • Alright for real Ive been pretty tepid on these movies but if his next one has Rey fighting a bunch of herselfs Ill provably give it a B+ at minimum

    RchanenElvenshae
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Alright for real Ive been pretty tepid on these movies but if his next one has Rey fighting a bunch of herselfs Ill provably give it a B+ at minimum

    Just like 3 or 4 more Reys, or a Matrixesque Burly Brawl with dozens of Daisy Ridleys with magnetically constrained plasma sticks?

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    RchanenCommander ZoomMancingtomShadowenElvenshae
  • reVersereVerse Registered User regular
    What if Palpatine makes a bunch of clone Reys, and then he also makes them all pregnant with the next Jedi Jesus like he did with Anakin's mom?

  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    What if Palpatine makes a bunch of clone Reys, and then he also makes them all pregnant with the next Jedi Jesus like he did with Anakin's mom?

    look, I know Death Stranding just came out, but jesus christ

    Doctor DetroitFencingsaxMancingtomBlackDragon480MvrckJoolanderShadowenElvenshaeBeyond Normalboogedyboo
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    An Obi series seems like a stretch, but there is at least 1 story to tell in his exile. Between dropping off Luke and the beginning of ANH, Obi-Wan did something to sour Uncle Owen on him. Some adventure of his that brings danger too close to Luke had to go down, you don't just shun your baby delivery stork because he wants to teach your kid laser karate.

  • HeirHeir Registered User regular
    There was an Obi-wan book that dealt with some of his time on Tatooine. I vaguely remember it being alright, but for the life of me can't remember much about the actual plot.

    camo_sig2.png
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Obi was hitting the Sarlacc juice too hard and Uncle Owen had to kick him out.

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    An Obi series seems like a stretch, but there is at least 1 story to tell in his exile. Between dropping off Luke and the beginning of ANH, Obi-Wan did something to sour Uncle Owen on him. Some adventure of his that brings danger too close to Luke had to go down, you don't just shun your baby delivery stork because he wants to teach your kid laser karate.

    From what I've read/heard, the Obi series is going to be a 6-episode miniseries. Of course, that's just internet rumors and 'leaks', so it'll probably be a 20+ episode/season endeavor that runs longer than Gunsmoke did.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    An Obi series seems like a stretch, but there is at least 1 story to tell in his exile. Between dropping off Luke and the beginning of ANH, Obi-Wan did something to sour Uncle Owen on him. Some adventure of his that brings danger too close to Luke had to go down, you don't just shun your baby delivery stork because he wants to teach your kid laser karate.

    I always thought it was bringing him the kid... i mean. If i was a farmer with a young wife and suddenly my long lost brothers friend was all “you a dad now, also you cant move to the city because murder brother lives there and will kill you and your new kid i just gifted you.” i would not particularly like that person either

    wbBv3fj.png
    Dongs GaloreNechriah
  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    An Obi series seems like a stretch, but there is at least 1 story to tell in his exile. Between dropping off Luke and the beginning of ANH, Obi-Wan did something to sour Uncle Owen on him. Some adventure of his that brings danger too close to Luke had to go down, you don't just shun your baby delivery stork because he wants to teach your kid laser karate.

    I always thought it was bringing him the kid... i mean. If i was a farmer with a young wife and suddenly my long lost brothers friend was all “you a dad now, also you cant move to the city because murder brother lives there and will kill you and your new kid i just gifted you.” i would not particularly like that person either

    Or it could just be that Obi-Wan represents adventure and trouble. And whenever a Jedi shows up, shit gets bad.

    And then your burned bones are outside of your house in one the most gruesome scenes in Star Wars

    spool32 wrote:
    he pops this cobalt blue tetrahedron like he's thought of something. I'm like son, you know that's just a reskinned fireball, right?
    MancingtomLinespider5ZekElvenshaeBeyond NormalFANTOMAS
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    An Obi series seems like a stretch, but there is at least 1 story to tell in his exile. Between dropping off Luke and the beginning of ANH, Obi-Wan did something to sour Uncle Owen on him. Some adventure of his that brings danger too close to Luke had to go down, you don't just shun your baby delivery stork because he wants to teach your kid laser karate.

    I always thought it was bringing him the kid... i mean. If i was a farmer with a young wife and suddenly my long lost brothers friend was all “you a dad now, also you cant move to the city because murder brother lives there and will kill you and your new kid i just gifted you.” i would not particularly like that person either

    Or it could just be that Obi-Wan represents adventure and trouble. And whenever a Jedi shows up, shit gets bad.

    And then your burned bones are outside of your house in one the most gruesome scenes in Star Wars

    They'll probably do a story about a break between Obi-Wan and Owen—especially with the rumors that Joel Edgerton wants to reprise the role.

    But I think it makes just as much sense for Owen to be sour on him from the get-go. Owen met two Jedi in his life. The first, his stepbrother, showed up out of nowhere because he had prophetic dreams about Owen's stepmother, then shit got real dark. The galaxy went to war, like, two days later. A couple of years later, Owen hears that the Republic is dead, there's an Empire now, and every Jedi is either dead or a fugitive. Then some random dude shows up with a baby, says he's your stepbrother's friend, that your stepbrother's dead, and you have a child to raise.

    It's perfectly reasonable for Owen to look at all that, look at baby Luke, and decide None of That Nonsense.



    Now that I think about it, the way Luke got to Owen in ROTS doesn't really hold together. Anakin met Owen exactly once—it's kind of surprising that Yoda and Obi-Wan even know who he is. Why send Luke to him when one of them could've raised him from the start? How it should've gone down:
    Luke and Leia are born before Mustafar but after Anakin's fall. Padme arranges their adoption herself because she's afraid of what Palpatine will do to them. Yoda finds out before she dies, tells Obi-Wan about Luke but keeps Leia to himself because he's a shady troll and they're fighting telepaths—you can't give information you don't have. Obi-Wan shows up after Luke has settled in at the Lars farm, immediately triggering Owen's suspicion.

    Padme would actually get to make a decision in ROTS and it preserves the idea that nobody in the OT except Yoda and R2 had all the pieces.

    DoodmannElvenshaeCalica
  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    From that perspective you could almost believe that Owen was tasked with raising the antichrist. Maybe that’s what was going through his head at the time.

    Elvenshae
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