Reached the Rak'tika Greatwood last night. And I've got some thoughts about my good pal Thancred, and redemption arcs in general.
Thancred fucking sucks now, and I hate it. He used to be my favorite Scion, for pulling off the debonair rogue persona without including all the misogynistic lecher baggage that tends to come with that archetype. But his new emotionally withholding surrogate father routine is the worst. If I had any actual agency over the plot, ten minutes of watching him interact with New Minfilia would have been enough for me to eject him from the Scions.
Listen buddy, my WoL agrees that Old Minfilia got a raw deal, and would love to rescue her. And from an out-of-character perspective, I'm not super impressed with most of what the writers did to her. But that's not a valid excuse for child abuse. Nothing is.
Also... if you can't use Gunbreaker powers that need a cartridge because of your aether manipulation problem, the Warrior job is right there. I don't party with no-cartridge Gunbreakers for the same reason I don't party with ice-only Black Mages, or level 30+ Arcanists who refused to become Summoners/Scholars so they could keep using Carbuncle. I know he'll use those powers if I bring New Minfilia, but I'm not making her endure him for a single second longer than necessary. I'm glad Gunbreaker is the job I've chosen to do this expansion with, because that means that every time I do a dungeon, New Minfilia can be there as DPS with a group of people who are nice to her and treat her like a person, while Thancred's ass is wearing a groove into the bench.
Right now, my rankings for "Whose redemption arc am I buying" goes like this:
1.) Estinien - It's easy to forget how long he spent as a bad guy. Started as an unfriendly rival, then outright antagonist, then uneasy ally, then actual friend, then antagonist again but unwillingly, and now he's doing his Tuxedo Mask but-actually-useful thing, and I dig it. Estinien is my third Elf Boyfriend. I forgive him completely.
2.) Nero - Yeah, all right, he's pulling it off somehow. I don't forgive him, but I do get kind of excited when he breezes in to irritate Cid (I kind of don't like FF14 Cid).
3.) Gaius - I also don't forgive him, but I'm very interested in where his story is going. If I had the chance to retcon all of Stormblood's gratuitous "not really dead" plots, he would be the sole survivor, even though his survival is the biggest ass-pull of them all.
4.) Fordola - Holy shit, do I not forgive her. But I think keeping her in a cage except when using her to kill primals is a suitable punishment, and probably less merciful than just executing her. Just keep grinding her nose in how badly she fucked up.
5.) Thancred - God damn it dude. Get your shit together. There is a way out of this, but he seems determined to run in the opposite direction at full speed.
6.) A hypothetical world where Yotsuyu comes back from the dead again and she's very sorry - Congratulations on clearing this bar, Thancred, because this is the point on the scale where any time I spend interacting with a character in any way other than hitting them with a sword is damaging to my immersion.
7.) Lolorito - Not even a full Ebenezer Scrooge would pull him out of the toilet. If Lolorito turned 100% of his wealth and influence towards charity and public works, and lived the rest of his days in a filthy gutter fighting stray dogs for scraps, I'd be like "Yeeeeaaah... ok maybe fuck you 10% less than before. But still definitely fuck you." If I had more agency in the story, I would have formally broken ties with Nanamo over her decision to work with him. And I adore Nanamo.
8.) A hypothetical world where Ilberd comes back from the dead and he's very sorry - The man whose brilliant plan to save his homeland was to gather up all the people who actually wound up being tough and smart enough to save his homeland, but frame them for murder and treason first. It still stings that a guy that fucking dumb was able to out-maneuver me. Had his demise left behind a body to bury, I would have interred him under the latrine pit at a Roegadyn Spicy BBQ restaurant.
9.) Any given Ascian - Responsible for the destruction of at least seven entire worlds and all inhabitants, and the linked Calamities on the Source. Mass-murderers on an unfathomable scale. Utterly irredeemable. If the story even tries to present me with any option other than scattering their aether across the cosmos, it will probably break my immersion for good. I am grinding my teeth through this whole "putting up with a weirdly chummy Emet-Selch" section until hopefully we find a source of aether strong enough to nuke him with this White Auracite.
10.) Zenos - I generally have patience for exactly one no-sell battle per RPG, where victory is impossible and you're just pushing the boss to an HP% or waiting out a timer before they use an unavoidable instant-win attack. The only time I've ever encountered more than one no-sell battle and not been knocked completely out of the narrative by it was General Beatrix in FF9, and Zenos buddy, you are no General Beatrix. After three no-sell battles and a fourth victory nullified by resurrection shenanigans, I no longer recognize Zenos as existing in my canon playthrough. He is apocrypha. I don't care what he's doing, I don't care where his story goes, when the story cuts to him running around in that Elezen's body I check Twitter on my phone or go to the bathroom or something until it's done. The feeling I have towards him isn't animosity for a well-executed villain, it's disrespect for a badly written character who has overstayed his welcome. (By extension, I also already have zero patience for Ran'jit. Sorry guy, Zenos already used the no-sell budget for his expansion and two expansions following it.)
Realizing lately that I don't really trust or respect basically any of the moderators here. So, good luck with life, friends! Hit me up on Twitter @DesertLeviathan
Reached the Rak'tika Greatwood last night. And I've got some thoughts about my good pal Thancred, and redemption arcs in general.
Thancred fucking sucks now, and I hate it. He used to be my favorite Scion, for pulling off the debonair rogue persona without including all the misogynistic lecher baggage that tends to come with that archetype. But his new emotionally withholding surrogate father routine is the worst. If I had any actual agency over the plot, ten minutes of watching him interact with New Minfilia would have been enough for me to eject him from the Scions.
Listen buddy, my WoL agrees that Old Minfilia got a raw deal, and would love to rescue her. And from an out-of-character perspective, I'm not super impressed with most of what the writers did to her. But that's not a valid excuse for child abuse. Nothing is.
Also... if you can't use Gunbreaker powers that need a cartridge because of your aether manipulation problem, the Warrior job is right there. I don't party with no-cartridge Gunbreakers for the same reason I don't party with ice-only Black Mages, or level 30+ Arcanists who refused to become Summoners/Scholars so they could keep using Carbuncle. I know he'll use those powers if I bring New Minfilia, but I'm not making her endure him for a single second longer than necessary. I'm glad Gunbreaker is the job I've chosen to do this expansion with, because that means that every time I do a dungeon, New Minfilia can be there as DPS with a group of people who are nice to her and treat her like a person, while Thancred's ass is wearing a groove into the bench.
Right now, my rankings for "Whose redemption arc am I buying" goes like this:
1.) Estinien - It's easy to forget how long he spent as a bad guy. Started as an unfriendly rival, then outright antagonist, then uneasy ally, then actual friend, then antagonist again but unwillingly, and now he's doing his Tuxedo Mask but-actually-useful thing, and I dig it. Estinien is my third Elf Boyfriend. I forgive him completely.
2.) Nero - Yeah, all right, he's pulling it off somehow. I don't forgive him, but I do get kind of excited when he breezes in to irritate Cid (I kind of don't like FF14 Cid).
3.) Gaius - I also don't forgive him, but I'm very interested in where his story is going. If I had the chance to retcon all of Stormblood's gratuitous "not really dead" plots, he would be the sole survivor, even though his survival is the biggest ass-pull of them all.
4.) Fordola - Holy shit, do I not forgive her. But I think keeping her in a cage except when using her to kill primals is a suitable punishment, and probably less merciful than just executing her. Just keep grinding her nose in how badly she fucked up.
5.) Thancred - God damn it dude. Get your shit together. There is a way out of this, but he seems determined to run in the opposite direction at full speed.
6.) A hypothetical world where Yotsuyu comes back from the dead again and she's very sorry - Congratulations on clearing this bar, Thancred, because this is the point on the scale where any time I spend interacting with a character in any way other than hitting them with a sword is damaging to my immersion.
7.) Lolorito - Not even a full Ebenezer Scrooge would pull him out of the toilet. If Lolorito turned 100% of his wealth and influence towards charity and public works, and lived the rest of his days in a filthy gutter fighting stray dogs for scraps, I'd be like "Yeeeeaaah... ok maybe fuck you 10% less than before. But still definitely fuck you." If I had more agency in the story, I would have formally broken ties with Nanamo over her decision to work with him. And I adore Nanamo.
8.) A hypothetical world where Ilberd comes back from the dead and he's very sorry - The man whose brilliant plan to save his homeland was to gather up all the people who actually wound up being tough and smart enough to save his homeland, but frame them for murder and treason first. It still stings that a guy that fucking dumb was able to out-maneuver me. Had his demise left behind a body to bury, I would have interred him under the latrine pit at a Roegadyn Spicy BBQ restaurant.
9.) Any given Ascian - Responsible for the destruction of at least seven entire worlds and all inhabitants, and the linked Calamities on the Source. Mass-murderers on an unfathomable scale. Utterly irredeemable. If the story even tries to present me with any option other than scattering their aether across the cosmos, it will probably break my immersion for good. I am grinding my teeth through this whole "putting up with a weirdly chummy Emet-Selch" section until hopefully we find a source of aether strong enough to nuke him with this White Auracite.
10.) Zenos - I generally have patience for exactly one no-sell battle per RPG, where victory is impossible and you're just pushing the boss to an HP% or waiting out a timer before they use an unavoidable instant-win attack. The only time I've ever encountered more than one no-sell battle and not been knocked completely out of the narrative by it was General Beatrix in FF9, and Zenos buddy, you are no General Beatrix. After three no-sell battles and a fourth victory nullified by resurrection shenanigans, I no longer recognize Zenos as existing in my canon playthrough. He is apocrypha. I don't care what he's doing, I don't care where his story goes, when the story cuts to him running around in that Elezen's body I check Twitter on my phone or go to the bathroom or something until it's done. The feeling I have towards him isn't animosity for a well-executed villain, it's disrespect for a badly written character who has overstayed his welcome. (By extension, I also already have zero patience for Ran'jit. Sorry guy, Zenos already used the no-sell budget for his expansion and two expansions following it.)
Idk how far you are and I’m gonna be totally honest and say I skipped half this manifesto but Thancred has a good character arc
Edit: I more meant to say rather than “how far you are” but instead “when they go into it”
I liked the fight and music but story wise it just didn't work for me at all
The game even kinda acknowledges it when they go "fuck, man, why did the Kami even keep her alive" and the only answer is that she brought Gosetsu some peace which doesn't really work for me because he was at peace with his own death to begin with.
Yostuyu just felt like a character they never really knew what to do with and by making her such a huge focus it really hurt the SB patch storylines.
They introduce her as an utterly detestable villain who is evil to her core
Give her a tragic backstory but don't try to use it to justify her actions
Then she goes out doubling down on her cruelty, only to survive and have an incredibly hackneyed amnesia plot
And once everyone goes "well, I guess she isn't faking she can stay" she gets pushed right back into being Yostuyu by her shitty brother and regrets nothing and tries to kill everyone again by summoning a Primal before eventually dying and killing her brother
They either went too hard on making Yostuyu a horrific villain or too easy on making me actually care about Tsuyu beyond everyone just saying how innocent and child like she is all the time and it led to the story not working at all for me
I liked the fight and music but story wise it just didn't work for me at all
The game even kinda acknowledges it when they go "fuck, man, why did the Kami even keep her alive" and the only answer is that she brought Gosetsu some peace which doesn't really work for me because he was at peace with his own death to begin with.
Yostuyu just felt like a character they never really knew what to do with and by making her such a huge focus it really hurt the SB patch storylines.
They introduce her as an utterly detestable villain who is evil to her core
Give her a tragic backstory but don't try to use it to justify her actions
Then she goes out doubling down on her cruelty, only to survive and have an incredibly hackneyed amnesia plot
And once everyone goes "well, I guess she isn't faking she can stay" she gets pushed right back into being Yostuyu by her shitty brother and regrets nothing and tries to kill everyone again by summoning a Primal before eventually dying and killing her brother
They either went too hard on making Yostuyu a horrific villain or too easy on making me actually care about Tsuyu beyond everyone just saying how innocent and child like she is all the time and it led to the story not working at all for me
I disagree a lot with how you interpreted a lot of the scenes
First, I do not read the end of the plot arc as bringing Gosetsu peace at all. His entire motivation as a character had been serving Hien, and dying a noble death in service of his lord is like the perfect storybook samurai death. But he survived. And he’s broken. Why would Gosetsu of all people sell his katana? He can’t use it anymore, he’s not that’s person anymore. His entire goal in life became to protect Tsuyu, even if he is conflicted about it. As soon as she dies, he leaves the enclave to wander the world, he doesn’t have a purpose anymore. It’s less him being at peace and more melancholy than anything else. He doesn’t get the happy ending, or the heroic ending.
The Tsukuyomi fight I also don’t read as her doubling down. The only people who’ve ever been important in her life have done nothing but increase her Suffering Meter. She doesn’t understand why Gosetsu would come and try to save her, she doesn’t understand sympathy. But she looks at that, introspectively, and realizes it’s too late for her. She’s become a monster, and wants to die
Also oh, it’s going to be a long night is just a good voiceline
I liked the fight and music but story wise it just didn't work for me at all
The game even kinda acknowledges it when they go "fuck, man, why did the Kami even keep her alive" and the only answer is that she brought Gosetsu some peace which doesn't really work for me because he was at peace with his own death to begin with.
Yostuyu just felt like a character they never really knew what to do with and by making her such a huge focus it really hurt the SB patch storylines.
They introduce her as an utterly detestable villain who is evil to her core
Give her a tragic backstory but don't try to use it to justify her actions
Then she goes out doubling down on her cruelty, only to survive and have an incredibly hackneyed amnesia plot
And once everyone goes "well, I guess she isn't faking she can stay" she gets pushed right back into being Yostuyu by her shitty brother and regrets nothing and tries to kill everyone again by summoning a Primal before eventually dying and killing her brother
They either went too hard on making Yostuyu a horrific villain or too easy on making me actually care about Tsuyu beyond everyone just saying how innocent and child like she is all the time and it led to the story not working at all for me
I disagree a lot with how you interpreted a lot of the scenes
First, I do not read the end of the plot arc as bringing Gosetsu peace at all. His entire motivation as a character had been serving Hien, and dying a noble death in service of his lord is like the perfect storybook samurai death. But he survived. And he’s broken. Why would Gosetsu of all people sell his katana? He can’t use it anymore, he’s not that’s person anymore. His entire goal in life became to protect Tsuyu, even if he is conflicted about it. As soon as she dies, he leaves the enclave to wander the world, he doesn’t have a purpose anymore. It’s less him being at peace and more melancholy than anything else. He doesn’t get the happy ending, or the heroic ending.
The Tsukuyomi fight I also don’t read as her doubling down. The only people who’ve ever been important in her life have done nothing but increase her Suffering Meter. She doesn’t understand why Gosetsu would come and try to save her, she doesn’t understand sympathy. But she looks at that, introspectively, and realizes it’s too late for her. She’s become a monster, and wants to die
Also oh, it’s going to be a long night is just a good voiceline
I mean Hien literally says, when asked why she survived, that the only reason he can think of is that Tsuyu reminded Gosetsu of his dead daughter and brought him some measure of peace and that is the final scene in the storyline. That ain't my interpretation, it is in the text. And Gosetsu wandering the world to bring peace to others is 100% presented as a good ending, maybe a bit bittersweet but he isn't melancholic or depressed when he leaves, he is confident in his new mission in life and wants to help others however he can now that he can no longer fight.
As for the fight itself while she may end the fight in a better place and recognize what she is, she summons the primal while yelling about how she wants to make all of Doma suffer and raze it just after giving Hien a speech about how his rule is invalid and Doma deserves to be crushed under heel.
Like I said, they didn't do enough to make me actually care about Yostuyu. Her upbringing is tragic, sure, but that doesn't justify wanton cruelty for cruelty's sake and that is basically all her character is when she doesn't have amnesia.
Okay I started up Shadowbringers and got to the first post intro zone before tapping out
Holy crap that Expansion makes a hell of a first impression
RAD NEW WORLD WITH INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT PLOT IMPLICATIONS
WARRIOR OF DARKNESS IS BACK AND YOUR GHOSTLY COMPANION
REMIXES OF SHIT FROM THE OTHER WORLD BUT IN NEAT NEW WAYS
PSUEDO TIME SKIP WITH THE OTHER SCIONS
Just so much incredibly cool shit thrown at me all at once I am a little overwhelmed
And then I finally watched the opening cinematic and I am glad I waited because it is nothing but spoilers but also super fuckin rad
Yesterday when I was working my way through the SB patches I was worried I had gone too hard on FF14 and was burning myself out cause I was having a hard time maintaining interest and now I am having to force myself to stop playing or else I will be up all night
I was in much the same place, but I'd been playing since ARR and was thinking that I was just getting close to burning out on FFXIV. I figured I'd give Shadowbringers a shot, but wasn't expecting it to keep my attention. From pretty much the moment I arrived on the First I realized that I was wrong and my interest in the game was reinvigorated.
I've never done Binding Coil, but I love how absolutely out there they are getting with boss ultimate attacks.
Thordan summoning Knights of the Round and then cracking reality, doing a DBZ beam struggle with Diabolos, literally everything about Ozma. Give me all the anime.
Everyday we stray further from God's light Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
I'm greatly enjoying reading the reactions of people going through the game for the first time. It's also a great reminder of all the things my character has already done since the breadth of this game's story is quite a bit and it's hard to remember everything.
As for Tsukuyomi...(Stormblood Spoilers)
I think they had a vague notion that Yotsuyu would be turning into Tsukuyomi in the patch content, but didn't have the best idea of how to get from point A to point B. Personally, I think I would have just had left her in a coma instead of giving her amnesia. She was too much of an unrepentant monster to try and invoke any kind of sympathy. Or just leave her dead and have Asahi trick her parents into using an item from the Kojin vault to create Tsukuyomi or something.
Also I think doing Fordola and Yotsuyu in the same expansion was a mistake, as Fordola pulled off the "local who sides with the occupying bad guys and believes she is right" thing much better, and they weren't really contrasted with each other of anything.
+1
turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
Roegadyn
Gosetsu stuff
I really dont like the idea that Gosetsu dying in the castle is a good end because he is at peace with it.
Dude is basically suicidal and is trying to kill himself in a way that doesn't conflict with his beliefs about honor and duty, absolving him of responsibility in the process is his mind.
I got a lot of problems with the SB patch stuff, but Gosetsu surviving and learning that his life is worth living is 100% the better end for that story. Even if they face plant a few times getting there.
I'm greatly enjoying reading the reactions of people going through the game for the first time. It's also a great reminder of all the things my character has already done since the breadth of this game's story is quite a bit and it's hard to remember everything.
As for Tsukuyomi...(Stormblood Spoilers)
I think they had a vague notion that Yotsuyu would be turning into Tsukuyomi in the patch content, but didn't have the best idea of how to get from point A to point B. Personally, I think I would have just had left her in a coma instead of giving her amnesia. She was too much of an unrepentant monster to try and invoke any kind of sympathy. Or just leave her dead and have Asahi trick her parents into using an item from the Kojin vault to create Tsukuyomi or something.
Also I think doing Fordola and Yotsuyu in the same expansion was a mistake, as Fordola pulled off the "local who sides with the occupying bad guys and believes she is right" thing much better, and they weren't really contrasted with each other of anything.
structurally, fordola and yotsuyu are the expansion's treatment of ala mhigo and doma in microcosm
in both cases, the writers don't seem especially interested in the former, despite brushing up against what could have been interesting concepts to explore further, and the latter just plain suffers from having to share the space
I really dont like the idea that Gosetsu dying in the castle is a good end because he is at peace with it.
Dude is basically suicidal and is trying to kill himself in a way that doesn't conflict with his beliefs about honor and duty, absolving him of responsibility in the process is his mind.
I got a lot of problems with the SB patch stuff, but Gosetsu surviving and learning that his life is worth living is 100% the better end for that story. Even if they face plant a few times getting there.
There's a short story (sadly, book-exclusive, so no link) about him on his pilgrimage that more or less spells this out. His vision of his family, Kaien, and Tsuyu on the "other shore" is the story illustration, and it is heartbreaking.
I really dont like the idea that Gosetsu dying in the castle is a good end because he is at peace with it.
Dude is basically suicidal and is trying to kill himself in a way that doesn't conflict with his beliefs about honor and duty, absolving him of responsibility in the process is his mind.
I got a lot of problems with the SB patch stuff, but Gosetsu surviving and learning that his life is worth living is 100% the better end for that story. Even if they face plant a few times getting there.
mostly my problem with him surviving is that, in the moment, his retort of "gambling was never my vice" was such a fantastic line for a character to go out on
I really dont like the idea that Gosetsu dying in the castle is a good end because he is at peace with it.
Dude is basically suicidal and is trying to kill himself in a way that doesn't conflict with his beliefs about honor and duty, absolving him of responsibility in the process is his mind.
I got a lot of problems with the SB patch stuff, but Gosetsu surviving and learning that his life is worth living is 100% the better end for that story. Even if they face plant a few times getting there.
I don't think suicidal is the right word. He was at peace with his own death and didn't fear it. Which is not a bad thing. My dad had cancer and after a few rounds of chemo and an updated diagnosis he made the call to end his treatment and just make the end as comfortable as possible. Do I wish he kept fighting even though his chances were incredibly slim? Sure a part of me does, but it was his call to make and his death to make peace with. Being okay with dying doesn't make someone suicidal, wanting to actively kill themself does.
I saw a lot of that in Gosetsu, he didn't want to die for death's sake, he knew his time was coming to an end given his age and before he wasn't able to lift his sword anymore he wanted to go out on his own terms. And his death wasn't a situation where he needlessly threw himself in harms way because of a death wish. He took the burden and the pain for the rest of the heroes so they could escape and did so happily.
I think the ending he got is fine, but the first one felt much more emotionally resonant and a satisfying conclusion for the character. Admittedly a large part of that is because of how little the Tsuyu plot worked for me, so the conclusion of it felt unearned.
Reached the Rak'tika Greatwood last night. And I've got some thoughts about my good pal Thancred, and redemption arcs in general.
Thancred fucking sucks now, and I hate it. He used to be my favorite Scion, for pulling off the debonair rogue persona without including all the misogynistic lecher baggage that tends to come with that archetype. But his new emotionally withholding surrogate father routine is the worst. If I had any actual agency over the plot, ten minutes of watching him interact with New Minfilia would have been enough for me to eject him from the Scions.
Listen buddy, my WoL agrees that Old Minfilia got a raw deal, and would love to rescue her. And from an out-of-character perspective, I'm not super impressed with most of what the writers did to her. But that's not a valid excuse for child abuse. Nothing is.
Also... if you can't use Gunbreaker powers that need a cartridge because of your aether manipulation problem, the Warrior job is right there. I don't party with no-cartridge Gunbreakers for the same reason I don't party with ice-only Black Mages, or level 30+ Arcanists who refused to become Summoners/Scholars so they could keep using Carbuncle. I know he'll use those powers if I bring New Minfilia, but I'm not making her endure him for a single second longer than necessary. I'm glad Gunbreaker is the job I've chosen to do this expansion with, because that means that every time I do a dungeon, New Minfilia can be there as DPS with a group of people who are nice to her and treat her like a person, while Thancred's ass is wearing a groove into the bench.
Right now, my rankings for "Whose redemption arc am I buying" goes like this:
1.) Estinien - It's easy to forget how long he spent as a bad guy. Started as an unfriendly rival, then outright antagonist, then uneasy ally, then actual friend, then antagonist again but unwillingly, and now he's doing his Tuxedo Mask but-actually-useful thing, and I dig it. Estinien is my third Elf Boyfriend. I forgive him completely.
2.) Nero - Yeah, all right, he's pulling it off somehow. I don't forgive him, but I do get kind of excited when he breezes in to irritate Cid (I kind of don't like FF14 Cid).
3.) Gaius - I also don't forgive him, but I'm very interested in where his story is going. If I had the chance to retcon all of Stormblood's gratuitous "not really dead" plots, he would be the sole survivor, even though his survival is the biggest ass-pull of them all.
4.) Fordola - Holy shit, do I not forgive her. But I think keeping her in a cage except when using her to kill primals is a suitable punishment, and probably less merciful than just executing her. Just keep grinding her nose in how badly she fucked up.
5.) Thancred - God damn it dude. Get your shit together. There is a way out of this, but he seems determined to run in the opposite direction at full speed.
6.) A hypothetical world where Yotsuyu comes back from the dead again and she's very sorry - Congratulations on clearing this bar, Thancred, because this is the point on the scale where any time I spend interacting with a character in any way other than hitting them with a sword is damaging to my immersion.
7.) Lolorito - Not even a full Ebenezer Scrooge would pull him out of the toilet. If Lolorito turned 100% of his wealth and influence towards charity and public works, and lived the rest of his days in a filthy gutter fighting stray dogs for scraps, I'd be like "Yeeeeaaah... ok maybe fuck you 10% less than before. But still definitely fuck you." If I had more agency in the story, I would have formally broken ties with Nanamo over her decision to work with him. And I adore Nanamo.
8.) A hypothetical world where Ilberd comes back from the dead and he's very sorry - The man whose brilliant plan to save his homeland was to gather up all the people who actually wound up being tough and smart enough to save his homeland, but frame them for murder and treason first. It still stings that a guy that fucking dumb was able to out-maneuver me. Had his demise left behind a body to bury, I would have interred him under the latrine pit at a Roegadyn Spicy BBQ restaurant.
9.) Any given Ascian - Responsible for the destruction of at least seven entire worlds and all inhabitants, and the linked Calamities on the Source. Mass-murderers on an unfathomable scale. Utterly irredeemable. If the story even tries to present me with any option other than scattering their aether across the cosmos, it will probably break my immersion for good. I am grinding my teeth through this whole "putting up with a weirdly chummy Emet-Selch" section until hopefully we find a source of aether strong enough to nuke him with this White Auracite.
10.) Zenos - I generally have patience for exactly one no-sell battle per RPG, where victory is impossible and you're just pushing the boss to an HP% or waiting out a timer before they use an unavoidable instant-win attack. The only time I've ever encountered more than one no-sell battle and not been knocked completely out of the narrative by it was General Beatrix in FF9, and Zenos buddy, you are no General Beatrix. After three no-sell battles and a fourth victory nullified by resurrection shenanigans, I no longer recognize Zenos as existing in my canon playthrough. He is apocrypha. I don't care what he's doing, I don't care where his story goes, when the story cuts to him running around in that Elezen's body I check Twitter on my phone or go to the bathroom or something until it's done. The feeling I have towards him isn't animosity for a well-executed villain, it's disrespect for a badly written character who has overstayed his welcome. (By extension, I also already have zero patience for Ran'jit. Sorry guy, Zenos already used the no-sell budget for his expansion and two expansions following it.)
Wait what....
Does Thancred not use some of his abilities if Minfilia isn't in the party? I thought that was just a cutscene plot thing and we were to assume she makes a ton for him out of combat
Reached the Rak'tika Greatwood last night. And I've got some thoughts about my good pal Thancred, and redemption arcs in general.
Thancred fucking sucks now, and I hate it. He used to be my favorite Scion, for pulling off the debonair rogue persona without including all the misogynistic lecher baggage that tends to come with that archetype. But his new emotionally withholding surrogate father routine is the worst. If I had any actual agency over the plot, ten minutes of watching him interact with New Minfilia would have been enough for me to eject him from the Scions.
Listen buddy, my WoL agrees that Old Minfilia got a raw deal, and would love to rescue her. And from an out-of-character perspective, I'm not super impressed with most of what the writers did to her. But that's not a valid excuse for child abuse. Nothing is.
Also... if you can't use Gunbreaker powers that need a cartridge because of your aether manipulation problem, the Warrior job is right there. I don't party with no-cartridge Gunbreakers for the same reason I don't party with ice-only Black Mages, or level 30+ Arcanists who refused to become Summoners/Scholars so they could keep using Carbuncle. I know he'll use those powers if I bring New Minfilia, but I'm not making her endure him for a single second longer than necessary. I'm glad Gunbreaker is the job I've chosen to do this expansion with, because that means that every time I do a dungeon, New Minfilia can be there as DPS with a group of people who are nice to her and treat her like a person, while Thancred's ass is wearing a groove into the bench.
Right now, my rankings for "Whose redemption arc am I buying" goes like this:
1.) Estinien - It's easy to forget how long he spent as a bad guy. Started as an unfriendly rival, then outright antagonist, then uneasy ally, then actual friend, then antagonist again but unwillingly, and now he's doing his Tuxedo Mask but-actually-useful thing, and I dig it. Estinien is my third Elf Boyfriend. I forgive him completely.
2.) Nero - Yeah, all right, he's pulling it off somehow. I don't forgive him, but I do get kind of excited when he breezes in to irritate Cid (I kind of don't like FF14 Cid).
3.) Gaius - I also don't forgive him, but I'm very interested in where his story is going. If I had the chance to retcon all of Stormblood's gratuitous "not really dead" plots, he would be the sole survivor, even though his survival is the biggest ass-pull of them all.
4.) Fordola - Holy shit, do I not forgive her. But I think keeping her in a cage except when using her to kill primals is a suitable punishment, and probably less merciful than just executing her. Just keep grinding her nose in how badly she fucked up.
5.) Thancred - God damn it dude. Get your shit together. There is a way out of this, but he seems determined to run in the opposite direction at full speed.
6.) A hypothetical world where Yotsuyu comes back from the dead again and she's very sorry - Congratulations on clearing this bar, Thancred, because this is the point on the scale where any time I spend interacting with a character in any way other than hitting them with a sword is damaging to my immersion.
7.) Lolorito - Not even a full Ebenezer Scrooge would pull him out of the toilet. If Lolorito turned 100% of his wealth and influence towards charity and public works, and lived the rest of his days in a filthy gutter fighting stray dogs for scraps, I'd be like "Yeeeeaaah... ok maybe fuck you 10% less than before. But still definitely fuck you." If I had more agency in the story, I would have formally broken ties with Nanamo over her decision to work with him. And I adore Nanamo.
8.) A hypothetical world where Ilberd comes back from the dead and he's very sorry - The man whose brilliant plan to save his homeland was to gather up all the people who actually wound up being tough and smart enough to save his homeland, but frame them for murder and treason first. It still stings that a guy that fucking dumb was able to out-maneuver me. Had his demise left behind a body to bury, I would have interred him under the latrine pit at a Roegadyn Spicy BBQ restaurant.
9.) Any given Ascian - Responsible for the destruction of at least seven entire worlds and all inhabitants, and the linked Calamities on the Source. Mass-murderers on an unfathomable scale. Utterly irredeemable. If the story even tries to present me with any option other than scattering their aether across the cosmos, it will probably break my immersion for good. I am grinding my teeth through this whole "putting up with a weirdly chummy Emet-Selch" section until hopefully we find a source of aether strong enough to nuke him with this White Auracite.
10.) Zenos - I generally have patience for exactly one no-sell battle per RPG, where victory is impossible and you're just pushing the boss to an HP% or waiting out a timer before they use an unavoidable instant-win attack. The only time I've ever encountered more than one no-sell battle and not been knocked completely out of the narrative by it was General Beatrix in FF9, and Zenos buddy, you are no General Beatrix. After three no-sell battles and a fourth victory nullified by resurrection shenanigans, I no longer recognize Zenos as existing in my canon playthrough. He is apocrypha. I don't care what he's doing, I don't care where his story goes, when the story cuts to him running around in that Elezen's body I check Twitter on my phone or go to the bathroom or something until it's done. The feeling I have towards him isn't animosity for a well-executed villain, it's disrespect for a badly written character who has overstayed his welcome. (By extension, I also already have zero patience for Ran'jit. Sorry guy, Zenos already used the no-sell budget for his expansion and two expansions following it.)
Wait what....
Does Thancred not use some of his abilities if Minfilia isn't in the party? I thought that was just a cutscene plot thing and we were to assume she makes a ton for him out of combat
I seem to remember reading somewhere that nothing mechanically changes, but his moves will only have the flashy, gunbreaker-y visual effects on them if minfillia is in the party
I was also not a huge fan of Thancred throughout most of the MSQ, but his arc was kind of necessary if they want the current dynamic of the Scions to continue. He's the stereotypical loner character who prefers to just not be close to anyone because losing them sucks, and he pretty plainly admits to such. Now that Minfilia is actually gone, and he seems to have made peace with that, I don't think he'll be quite as shitty going forward.
+3
IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
my 2 gil on Thancred, pretty full Shadowbringers spoilers
I also hated the "bad dad who can't talk with his daughter because of all the aaaaannnngst" bit, especially with dragging her through all sorts of life-threatening combat when she's already been a long-time victim of child abuse of the "if you don't keep working for me you're worthless and I'll abandon you" type from Ran'jit. But I guess that was also kind of the intent of the writing as a source of dramatic tension! So it was effective writing for me in that sense. And the catharsis felt good when the Minfillia plot finally does get resolved, Thancred makes proper peace with his Minfillia being dead for good and Ryne being her own person, and he becomes the good dad I was yelling at him through the screen to be the whole time.
IIRC, Powerman 5000 was like “Hey, maybe we could sue“ and the world was like “you don’t actually have a case here” and then Powerman 5000 was like “Haha it was just a joke, bro.”
turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
Roegadyn
Trust system stuff
I think Allisei is the only trust charachter who just has her classes' normal toolkit. Y'shtola is definitely the most distinct, she's not particularly based on BLM at all.
I think Allisei is the only trust charachter who just has her classes' normal toolkit. Y'shtola is definitely the most distinct, she's not particularly based on BLM at all.
Yeah, she’s a unique combo of thaumatirgy and conjury, using stuff like Fire and stuff like Water.
As another example, Alphinaud is like a scholar whose pet attacks instead.
Posts
somewhere beyond the sea
The Burn (Savage)
Seriously one of my favorite scenes in the game.
At least hes going to fuck with the Ascian's plans.
Listen buddy, my WoL agrees that Old Minfilia got a raw deal, and would love to rescue her. And from an out-of-character perspective, I'm not super impressed with most of what the writers did to her. But that's not a valid excuse for child abuse. Nothing is.
Also... if you can't use Gunbreaker powers that need a cartridge because of your aether manipulation problem, the Warrior job is right there. I don't party with no-cartridge Gunbreakers for the same reason I don't party with ice-only Black Mages, or level 30+ Arcanists who refused to become Summoners/Scholars so they could keep using Carbuncle. I know he'll use those powers if I bring New Minfilia, but I'm not making her endure him for a single second longer than necessary. I'm glad Gunbreaker is the job I've chosen to do this expansion with, because that means that every time I do a dungeon, New Minfilia can be there as DPS with a group of people who are nice to her and treat her like a person, while Thancred's ass is wearing a groove into the bench.
Right now, my rankings for "Whose redemption arc am I buying" goes like this:
2.) Nero - Yeah, all right, he's pulling it off somehow. I don't forgive him, but I do get kind of excited when he breezes in to irritate Cid (I kind of don't like FF14 Cid).
3.) Gaius - I also don't forgive him, but I'm very interested in where his story is going. If I had the chance to retcon all of Stormblood's gratuitous "not really dead" plots, he would be the sole survivor, even though his survival is the biggest ass-pull of them all.
4.) Fordola - Holy shit, do I not forgive her. But I think keeping her in a cage except when using her to kill primals is a suitable punishment, and probably less merciful than just executing her. Just keep grinding her nose in how badly she fucked up.
5.) Thancred - God damn it dude. Get your shit together. There is a way out of this, but he seems determined to run in the opposite direction at full speed.
6.) A hypothetical world where Yotsuyu comes back from the dead again and she's very sorry - Congratulations on clearing this bar, Thancred, because this is the point on the scale where any time I spend interacting with a character in any way other than hitting them with a sword is damaging to my immersion.
7.) Lolorito - Not even a full Ebenezer Scrooge would pull him out of the toilet. If Lolorito turned 100% of his wealth and influence towards charity and public works, and lived the rest of his days in a filthy gutter fighting stray dogs for scraps, I'd be like "Yeeeeaaah... ok maybe fuck you 10% less than before. But still definitely fuck you." If I had more agency in the story, I would have formally broken ties with Nanamo over her decision to work with him. And I adore Nanamo.
8.) A hypothetical world where Ilberd comes back from the dead and he's very sorry - The man whose brilliant plan to save his homeland was to gather up all the people who actually wound up being tough and smart enough to save his homeland, but frame them for murder and treason first. It still stings that a guy that fucking dumb was able to out-maneuver me. Had his demise left behind a body to bury, I would have interred him under the latrine pit at a Roegadyn Spicy BBQ restaurant.
9.) Any given Ascian - Responsible for the destruction of at least seven entire worlds and all inhabitants, and the linked Calamities on the Source. Mass-murderers on an unfathomable scale. Utterly irredeemable. If the story even tries to present me with any option other than scattering their aether across the cosmos, it will probably break my immersion for good. I am grinding my teeth through this whole "putting up with a weirdly chummy Emet-Selch" section until hopefully we find a source of aether strong enough to nuke him with this White Auracite.
10.) Zenos - I generally have patience for exactly one no-sell battle per RPG, where victory is impossible and you're just pushing the boss to an HP% or waiting out a timer before they use an unavoidable instant-win attack. The only time I've ever encountered more than one no-sell battle and not been knocked completely out of the narrative by it was General Beatrix in FF9, and Zenos buddy, you are no General Beatrix. After three no-sell battles and a fourth victory nullified by resurrection shenanigans, I no longer recognize Zenos as existing in my canon playthrough. He is apocrypha. I don't care what he's doing, I don't care where his story goes, when the story cuts to him running around in that Elezen's body I check Twitter on my phone or go to the bathroom or something until it's done. The feeling I have towards him isn't animosity for a well-executed villain, it's disrespect for a badly written character who has overstayed his welcome. (By extension, I also already have zero patience for Ran'jit. Sorry guy, Zenos already used the no-sell budget for his expansion and two expansions following it.)
I've gotten used to him again. Besides, putting Black Rose on hold just because of us is a positive development.
Idk how far you are and I’m gonna be totally honest and say I skipped half this manifesto but Thancred has a good character arc
Edit: I more meant to say rather than “how far you are” but instead “when they go into it”
Yostuyu just felt like a character they never really knew what to do with and by making her such a huge focus it really hurt the SB patch storylines.
They introduce her as an utterly detestable villain who is evil to her core
Give her a tragic backstory but don't try to use it to justify her actions
Then she goes out doubling down on her cruelty, only to survive and have an incredibly hackneyed amnesia plot
And once everyone goes "well, I guess she isn't faking she can stay" she gets pushed right back into being Yostuyu by her shitty brother and regrets nothing and tries to kill everyone again by summoning a Primal before eventually dying and killing her brother
They either went too hard on making Yostuyu a horrific villain or too easy on making me actually care about Tsuyu beyond everyone just saying how innocent and child like she is all the time and it led to the story not working at all for me
I disagree a lot with how you interpreted a lot of the scenes
The Tsukuyomi fight I also don’t read as her doubling down. The only people who’ve ever been important in her life have done nothing but increase her Suffering Meter. She doesn’t understand why Gosetsu would come and try to save her, she doesn’t understand sympathy. But she looks at that, introspectively, and realizes it’s too late for her. She’s become a monster, and wants to die
Also oh, it’s going to be a long night is just a good voiceline
As for the fight itself while she may end the fight in a better place and recognize what she is, she summons the primal while yelling about how she wants to make all of Doma suffer and raze it just after giving Hien a speech about how his rule is invalid and Doma deserves to be crushed under heel.
Like I said, they didn't do enough to make me actually care about Yostuyu. Her upbringing is tragic, sure, but that doesn't justify wanton cruelty for cruelty's sake and that is basically all her character is when she doesn't have amnesia.
I was in much the same place, but I'd been playing since ARR and was thinking that I was just getting close to burning out on FFXIV. I figured I'd give Shadowbringers a shot, but wasn't expecting it to keep my attention. From pretty much the moment I arrived on the First I realized that I was wrong and my interest in the game was reinvigorated.
Thordan summoning Knights of the Round and then cracking reality, doing a DBZ beam struggle with Diabolos, literally everything about Ozma. Give me all the anime.
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
As for Tsukuyomi...(Stormblood Spoilers)
Also I think doing Fordola and Yotsuyu in the same expansion was a mistake, as Fordola pulled off the "local who sides with the occupying bad guys and believes she is right" thing much better, and they weren't really contrasted with each other of anything.
Dude is basically suicidal and is trying to kill himself in a way that doesn't conflict with his beliefs about honor and duty, absolving him of responsibility in the process is his mind.
I got a lot of problems with the SB patch stuff, but Gosetsu surviving and learning that his life is worth living is 100% the better end for that story. Even if they face plant a few times getting there.
in both cases, the writers don't seem especially interested in the former, despite brushing up against what could have been interesting concepts to explore further, and the latter just plain suffers from having to share the space
I saw a lot of that in Gosetsu, he didn't want to die for death's sake, he knew his time was coming to an end given his age and before he wasn't able to lift his sword anymore he wanted to go out on his own terms. And his death wasn't a situation where he needlessly threw himself in harms way because of a death wish. He took the burden and the pain for the rest of the heroes so they could escape and did so happily.
I think the ending he got is fine, but the first one felt much more emotionally resonant and a satisfying conclusion for the character. Admittedly a large part of that is because of how little the Tsuyu plot worked for me, so the conclusion of it felt unearned.
Wait what....
You are correct.
Followed by a really good one followed by a completely forgettable one.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
I have no idea how they got away with fiend except that maybe nobody in powerman 5000 noticed or cared
As another example, Alphinaud is like a scholar whose pet attacks instead.