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[Total War] 3 Kingdoms out now. Cao Cao says ciao ciao to the alliance you made with him.

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Posts

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    I tried making a long march south as Gong Du, cuz you can get a pretty goddamn sweet spot off by yourself, everything's either abandoned or barely defended han settlements

    The problem is that you get a bunch of resources and food basically for free, but then since you're just a yellow turban you can't use diplomacy to actually get rich trading that stuff off to other warlords. So eventually a few doomstacks arrived and I died.

    I still wanna try it again though. Gong Du is particularly well suited for an early game migration because you can just replenish your army supplies with his unique liberation stance. He seems interesting in general, it's just that his starting location is really nasty.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    DHPPxWV.jpg

    *points left*

    That's bait.

    ...but damned if I'm not hungry.

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    vagrant_winds
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Okay I have figured out something that deffo needs a patch

    If you have a unit of spear guard, they have 100 ranged toughness, and if you have a decent strategist leading them they get a formation that gives them 100% ranged block chance, and since the AI isn’t smart enough to not focus fire on the closest enemy units, you just send them in first

    Not a single person dies and the enemy wastes every single arrow they have, which in this game means they sacrifice their biggest killing power short of their generals

    It’s genuinely unfair but at the same time I’m exploiting the hell out of it because I like being reminded that I’m smarter than a dumb computer

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    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    It’s genuinely unfair but at the same time I’m exploiting the hell out of it because I like being reminded that I’m smarter than a dumb computer
    I would think that you are reminded of that every time someone challenges your top beatstick general to a duel? :3

    Like, c'mon AI dudes, there is like a bare handful of generals on the entire map who can duel Guan Yu out the gate and none of you have him. How do you really expect this to go?

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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Spectrum wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    It’s genuinely unfair but at the same time I’m exploiting the hell out of it because I like being reminded that I’m smarter than a dumb computer
    I would think that you are reminded of that every time someone challenges your top beatstick general to a duel? :3

    Like, c'mon AI dudes, there is like a bare handful of generals on the entire map who can duel Guan Yu out the gate and none of you have him. How do you really expect this to go?

    On the other hand sometimes the game lies to me and says their strength is negligible and then they beat my general to a pulp and somehow win the duel

    I think the dueling could be made clearer or more accurate

    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    My game has descended into an absolute shit show
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    The final endgame when you're emperor isn't too bad of a slog, since after winning enough battles and taking enough settlements, the rival emperor will agree to abdicate, which will instantly annex them fully.

    I’m approaching being king pretty soon which I guess is the endgame. Right now it’s a huge mess of different alliances to keep track of and a lot of the ai actions seem nonsensical.

    I mean, not inaccurate to politics.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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    FencingsaxElvenshae
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Okay I have figured out something that deffo needs a patch

    If you have a unit of spear guard, they have 100 ranged toughness, and if you have a decent strategist leading them they get a formation that gives them 100% ranged block chance, and since the AI isn’t smart enough to not focus fire on the closest enemy units, you just send them in first

    Not a single person dies and the enemy wastes every single arrow they have, which in this game means they sacrifice their biggest killing power short of their generals

    It’s genuinely unfair but at the same time I’m exploiting the hell out of it because I like being reminded that I’m smarter than a dumb computer

    I did this back in Rome 1 with Testudo. I also use my general, light cav or horse archers to bait archer volleys at max range, then micro so that the volleys miss 100% of the time.

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I think I'm going to quit this campaign, I'm just not having fun. I just hit the endgame and it's a huge slog. I'm at war on seemingly endless different fronts, can't make peace, can't negotiate with anyone (these are all people I've never fucked with) and the nature of Whether I'm Making Any Money is extremely byzantine and changeable. I don't know. I'll try one more game I guess.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • The BraysterThe Brayster UKRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I think I'm going to quit this campaign, I'm just not having fun. I just hit the endgame and it's a huge slog. I'm at war on seemingly endless different fronts, can't make peace, can't negotiate with anyone (these are all people I've never fucked with) and the nature of Whether I'm Making Any Money is extremely byzantine and changeable. I don't know. I'll try one more game I guess.

    Who're you currently playing as?

    As for your next campaign, try out Gonsun Zan or Sun Jian. The latter especially is good for learning how to balance your economy and population. You get prime access to a load of uncolonized land, and can build up entire commanderies from scratch, rather than relying on whatever mess you conquer from the AI. Your only actual obstacle until you hit the endgame is Liu Biao and his vassals at the very start, but if you ambush him in the forest by the first town you take you can peace out pretty much immediately.

    Steam: TheBrayster
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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I’m playing as liu bei because he’s my favourite. I think I know where I went wrong though: I didn’t realise how powerful his annex ability is and that his early game should be to ignore war and scoop up as many Han lands as possible for free

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

    BigityElvenshae
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    I only just realized how important government buildings are for generating prestige, I've been really struggling to break out of second marquis

  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Yeah, I think newer players (like me) don't really effectively utilize their Commanders special abilities to good effect as well as not really focusing on the "historical hint" that is given at the beginning of the game (for Cao Cao they tell you to watch out for Liu Biao, that the north is a mess and you should handle the Han territories surrounding you). Having done this in my third Cao Cao run I'm at a much better position than when I just started attacking people willy nilly and making insane coalitions.

    One thing I also noticed, in the early game, is that a half stack can effectively guard a town if you've got a decent garrison set up, which makes it easier to manage your army and economy.

    . . .I also just saw you can rotate the campaign map, in any interface. Thought it was a crazy design decision to not be able to see behind mountains.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Equipping a strategist with a bow, with all their ranged damage upgrades, turns them into snipers. Sniped Yuan Tan off his horse in a siege.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    CantidoKanaBigityMoridin889Kayne Red Robenever dieElvenshaeElldren
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Yeah there's definitely some things where the game doesn't do as good a job as it should explaining to you, especially with how complex the campaign mode can get.

    Like administrators vs assignments, what makes people better at those things, showing any extra effects from the officer you've got around, like if your person has +5k population growth or some other bonus, pointing out that some regions get bonuses or penalties to peasant income, more clearly explaining like how to gain or lose faction support, the various interactions between food, resupply, and stockpiles, the effects of excess food, flat income increases versus percentage increases (do I really have to bust out a pen and paper to determine which side of the tree I should go down for the most return on an industry building?). I'm sure I could think of a dozen other things given 5 more minutes too.

    Like generally all of those mechanics actually do make sense and work pretty well, it's just that the game doesn't do a great job introducing you to them.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    Olivaw
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    The game never tells you how administrators actually work, which meant that I thought for like thirty hours that administrators were stuck in whatever commandery they were assigned to and couldn't command an army

    Turns out they can be an administrator and a general at the same time, which would have significantly lessened my anxiety about appointments

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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Another mistake I made was thinking I couldn’t annex something if it had an army in it. You can fully annex that shit, they will kick those crackers out on their ass.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

    KanaBigityOlivawMoridin889stopgapElvenshae
  • SonelanSonelan Registered User regular
    So how do yall deal with everyone wanting higher positions as you get bigger? I just became shu-han duchy and alot of people are unhappy.

    So far i have grabbed bonuses from various bonuses from the reform tree but its barely staving off people leaving.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    God damnit. It pays to look at the FULL map and not turn off enemy movements. I was so busy waging war in the South, grabbing Han territory, that I did not see Yuan Shu had taken the Emperor. :(

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Sonelan wrote: »
    So how do yall deal with everyone wanting higher positions as you get bigger? I just became shu-han duchy and alot of people are unhappy.

    So far i have grabbed bonuses from various bonuses from the reform tree but its barely staving off people leaving.

    In my Cao Cao game, I got the +8 satisfaction reform, Tao Qian's temple (in Pengcheng), and a satisfaction ancillary, which let me get by without promoting anyone through almost the entire game.

    Something to look at before recruiting a character is if they have any negative satisfaction traits, which makes them cost way more than other characters because of promotions.

    Oh and I was using the "Reward the Filial and Incorrupt" assignment in my three main economy provinces, which is +10(?) satisfaction and -50% corruption.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I think I'm going to quit this campaign, I'm just not having fun. I just hit the endgame and it's a huge slog. I'm at war on seemingly endless different fronts, can't make peace, can't negotiate with anyone (these are all people I've never fucked with) and the nature of Whether I'm Making Any Money is extremely byzantine and changeable. I don't know. I'll try one more game I guess.

    I just finished my Cao Cao campaign and what I realised is that all that shit didn't matter. I usually just needed to get a few good victories in and then make peace and vassalize the minor states by just giving them provinces I didn't care about. And then I could end the game by just beelining to Wu's capital and mostly ignoring everything else

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    In my Cao Cao campaign I discovered the whole southwest part of the map was abandoned. Colonizing the area has been expensive but I've nearly doubled my territory from it. Sun really didn't like what I was doing and declared war on me. If I work quickly I think I can gobble up a few of his cities and sue for peace.

    camo_sig.png
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Holy crap. I forgot about marraiges in this game: I needed to get rid of a character and remembered the game suggested marrying off annoying members. I couldn't send off the person I wanted, but did have an eligible bachelorette. She was a legendary character and it was only fitting that in exchange for peace Dong Min gave me his legendary fighter: Lu Bu.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
    Moridin889SpectrumEnclaveofGnomesKayne Red Robenever dieElvenshaeboogedybooNyysjan
  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I’m playing as liu bei because he’s my favourite. I think I know where I went wrong though: I didn’t realise how powerful his annex ability is and that his early game should be to ignore war and scoop up as many Han lands as possible for free
    Save your points for the capitals, since those have walls you have to sit there and crack (and you can't afford trebs for awhile). You should be able to run over the minors pretty easily.

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    Bigity
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Dong Zhou survived to the endgame in my last game but died before the tenth turn again this time. I feel like there are some buggy scripts.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Dong Zhou survived to the endgame in my last game but died before the tenth turn again this time. I feel like there are some buggy scripts.
    IIRC, it's a percent chance. It's just very likely that he kicks it.

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  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    The main problem with very hard/legendary, across all Total War games, is that you don't get a chance to use elite units much. The decision making comes down to:

    1. I can upgrade my army with elite units.
    2. I can build a new army of militia.

    Building a new army of militia is almost always the correct choice. I might throw in a single elite for flavor but like Shogun where you spam Yari and Archer Ashigaru, I'm throwing Ji and Archer Militias at the AI.

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    Kayne Red Robe
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Playing as Yuan Shu is kind of hilarious, you're such a prick. It's just constantly running around yelling at my neighbors, "HEY!!! ACKNOWLEDGE MEEEEE!!!!!"

    Oh, hey, 4000 gold. Uh, yeah, sure, you're the rightful emperor or whatever. For 10 turns. Don't talk to me again until you have more money.

    SEE BIG BROTHER, THEY LIKE ME MORE, FUCK YOOOOUUUUU!!!

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    Elvenshae
  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    The main problem with very hard/legendary, across all Total War games, is that you don't get a chance to use elite units much. The decision making comes down to:

    1. I can upgrade my army with elite units.
    2. I can build a new army of militia.

    Building a new army of militia is almost always the correct choice. I might throw in a single elite for flavor but like Shogun where you spam Yari and Archer Ashigaru, I'm throwing Ji and Archer Militias at the AI.
    It's even worse starting with Shu and Liu Bei's militia bonus.

    I'm not even really outmassing the enemy, it's just that I can afford to play offensively because I can put cheaper scrub armies on the other sides of my empire as garrisons while sending in full scrub armies to the front.

    I might want to try and work some Yi Archers in, those guys actually murder for real.

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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I saw the cost of Lie Bei’s militia units and assumed they were toilet tier rather than realising that they’re half price.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Also! The autoresolve under counts Guan Yu and Zang Fei, who can duo most of the early battles, even sieges.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • Last SonLast Son Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Also! The autoresolve under counts Guan Yu and Zang Fei, who can duo most of the early battles, even sieges.

    I think the autoresolve is just heavily biased against the player in general. I've gotten a lot of fights where autoresolve said I would get a defeat that I then played and got decisive victories.

    Bigity
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    I think in general, players are just better tacticians than the AI. The AI is...poor. Especially in its pathfinding. I think the autoresolve recognizes that the AI is bad, so an easy win for you would be a defeat if an AI was controlling your army.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    The autoresolve is much better at sieges than I am

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

    MortiousBotznoystopgapFencingsaxMoridin889OlivawBigitynever dieUnlucky
  • SonelanSonelan Registered User regular
    Man kinda bummed out. I can never get Zhao Yun as Liu Bei since by the time his original lord is ready to unify or become a vassal he has gotten Zhao killed.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    Unless they changed it from TWW, recall that the autoresolve algorithm assumes that all ranged units shoot all of their ammo first.

    That is not likely the case in practice for fairly obvious reasons, the first being the AI is, as usual, fairly atrocious at defending its archers from flanks once the lines have clashed.

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  • BotznoyBotznoy Registered User regular
    Yeah the AI do not protect their archers at all as even the militia cav end up with a 100+ kills mopping them up.

    IZF2byN.jpg

    Want to play co-op games? Feel free to hit me up!
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    I don't know if its intended or not, but all the Strategist debuffs/buffs work on duelists. So you can debuff the enemy duelist with Wisdom of the River for -100% evasion and armor, and buff your duelist with cooldown reduction.

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    Elvenshae
  • FreiFrei A French Prometheus Unbound Registered User regular
    edited May 28
    by the way, please say the thread title out loud even if you don't have correct pronunciation/accent because I am pathetically proud of myself and will never change the thread title as long as i may live

    also I just got Lu Bu for a bunch of ancillaries that I don't even use. I'm gonna give this fierce ass dummy a bunch of stuff to keep him happy and be the Bandit Queen the world needs.

    and there's a patch out that is just a stability pass, but they said bug fixes are coming soon.

    Frei on
    Are you the magic man?
  • BotznoyBotznoy Registered User regular
    Man I'm playing one of the yellow turban factions that get the archers and those guys do work. Easily 300 kills a battle so far

    IZF2byN.jpg

    Want to play co-op games? Feel free to hit me up!
  • MassenaMassena Registered User regular
    Got back from a trip and finally had time to dig into this a bit over the weekend. Generally really liking it.

    1) They NAIL the feel. Voice overs (both English and Mandarin), music, art direction, characters: you're playing something Chinese in the Three Kingdoms period, not a goofy mod or graphic slapon.
    2) Battle is standard Total War fare (see what I did there? did you see?) at first glance. Maybe my armies are too simplistic so far. Generals are definitely stronger in Romance mode, similar to some of the hero units (not leaders) in Warhammer. Generally only have one or two abilities to pop though.

    I very much like that different types of generals play different roles. I think there is a whole subgame of ideal retinue composition that I need to figure out. I will probably do some thinking on this after playing a bit more this week. Right now I've been loosely doing color matching (spears with green, cavalry with yellow and red, archers with blue, swords with purple). Probably 4 unites per retinue that match type and then 2 units that fill gaps (archers if I don't have blue, spears if I don't have green, etc), so that I'm fielding armies with a variety of units. I'm sure people smarter and with more time than me have done the actual thinking on what's ideal here.

    3) The campaign game is both MUCH more complex and not explained super great. They said Cao Cao was "easy" and maybe he is, but he's also NOT a great one to start with being both in the center of ALL the action and having a campaign dynamic (altering other faction opinion up or down) that requires a little more understanding of the game mechanics. Did about 30 turns as him and felt like I was getting pulled in a lot of weird directions. Also had accidentally allowed Tao Qian into my confederation (which is the faction you're supposed to remove as Cao Cao early in a mission) because I couldn't pop out of the decision box to access larger info. Restarted as Sun Jian, ran into a similar problem about 30 turns in: all I want to do is go crusading through the south lands but I keep getting attacked by the entire world north of me. Again, I'm sure there's a "thing" I'm doing that isn't ideal here. Restarted as Liu Bei and felt much better about what I'm doing. I didn't really "get" his mechanic with Han integration, and don't really understand how to boost his unique Unity resource (besides trying to keep people happy). I don't understand why having the ability to confederate is so useful early on if absolutely no one is willing to confederate even after NA pacts and trade agreements, etc. But that aside, he has clear directions for expansion, so his start was simpler and I didn't feel pulled in odd ways like I did in Cao Cao and Sun Jian.

    I'm also not sure I'm doing research right. In all three games I've made a beeline for that military resoruce that gives you +10% replenishment, since that seems like such a key block to expansion. I'm wondering if I'm screwing up my economy though by doing that. I've messed around with blue trade buildings some, but going all green (peasant) income seems simplest and strongest to me so far. I don't end up in scenarios where I have options to build like 3 buildings that boost commerce income by a % but no buildings that, you know, generate it in the first place. I'm sure that I have more work to do there.

    TLDR:
    Super fun game. It's got layers though, and might need some time to dig into. It's not quite: "you're Dwarfs, so pump out some blasting power and wipe out the Grudge." I can see myself spending a lot of time with it though, once I get the core mechanics and how they interact a little better.

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