[Total War] 3 Kingdoms out now. Cao Cao says ciao ciao to the alliance you made with him.

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  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    The AI will sometimes build the 5-10% chance of expansion building in their undercities, so they can get quite a few of them. As each undercity can give +1 Skaven corruption (0.25 per building) to adjacent provinces, you will sometimes see (thanks to Clan Mors usually) very high Skaven corruption in the Badlands if they have multiple undercities.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    korodullin wrote: »
    Yeah this Skaven corruption has been building since turn 1. It's turn 56 now, and after a slew of peace treaties I finally managed to get a breather after being constantly assaulted in The Silver Road by Black Crag (who confederated the Bloody Spearz), the Bloody Handz, Von Carstein, and Sylvania, so I can actually afford to roll with a group of heroes to sniff out Skaven undercities.

    Edit: Ha ha nevermind. Black Crag confederated all of the rest of the surviving Greenskin factions and promptly sent a half dozen stacks of troops into my three provinces from two directions. I could probably salvage this, but I think this is pretty much game over for this campaign.

    Yeah, for some reason AI factions get a huge bonus to confederate other factions when they're super weak (as in, the super weak faction gains control of the more powerful one). I started a Kemmler campaign last week and every time I had Brettonia down to 1 settlement they'd confederate someone else. I had to burn down the coastline all the way to Arkhan's starting settlement just to finish off Louen for good.

    It makes the AI LLs so much more resilient. My last Empire campaign I had Eshin confed every single Skaven LL and I had to kill all of them, repeatedly, burning out the entire Old World, half the Southlands, and most of Lustria (the High Elves and Dark Elves claimed Naggaroth), just to stop having Queek and Tretch constantly razing my settlements and fleeing. Meanwhile I can't get other LLs to confederate when they're 1 settlement to my 20 and we share a dozen powerful enemies (thank goodness for the Empire rework finally making it feasible to unite all the Elector Counts).

    Maybe that'll be less of an issue when fighting Greenskins after this patch? Sounds like they're a lot less likely to confederate by default since it can be forced by defeating their boss. But that might not change the AI behavior.

  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    korodullin wrote: »
    Yeah this Skaven corruption has been building since turn 1. It's turn 56 now, and after a slew of peace treaties I finally managed to get a breather after being constantly assaulted in The Silver Road by Black Crag (who confederated the Bloody Spearz), the Bloody Handz, Von Carstein, and Sylvania, so I can actually afford to roll with a group of heroes to sniff out Skaven undercities.

    Edit: Ha ha nevermind. Black Crag confederated all of the rest of the surviving Greenskin factions and promptly sent a half dozen stacks of troops into my three provinces from two directions. I could probably salvage this, but I think this is pretty much game over for this campaign.

    Yeah, for some reason AI factions get a huge bonus to confederate other factions when they're super weak (as in, the super weak faction gains control of the more powerful one). I started a Kemmler campaign last week and every time I had Brettonia down to 1 settlement they'd confederate someone else. I had to burn down the coastline all the way to Arkhan's starting settlement just to finish off Louen for good.

    It makes the AI LLs so much more resilient. My last Empire campaign I had Eshin confed every single Skaven LL and I had to kill all of them, repeatedly, burning out the entire Old World, half the Southlands, and most of Lustria (the High Elves and Dark Elves claimed Naggaroth), just to stop having Queek and Tretch constantly razing my settlements and fleeing. Meanwhile I can't get other LLs to confederate when they're 1 settlement to my 20 and we share a dozen powerful enemies (thank goodness for the Empire rework finally making it feasible to unite all the Elector Counts).

    Maybe that'll be less of an issue when fighting Greenskins after this patch? Sounds like they're a lot less likely to confederate by default since it can be forced by defeating their boss. But that might not change the AI behavior.
    WAI. It's explicitly there to keep who are supposed to be the notable factions around until the end of the game, unless you've gone out of your way to assassinate them before they can do anything at all.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    The AI will sometimes build the 5-10% chance of expansion building in their undercities, so they can get quite a few of them. As each undercity can give +1 Skaven corruption (0.25 per building) to adjacent provinces, you will sometimes see (thanks to Clan Mors usually) very high Skaven corruption in the Badlands if they have multiple undercities.

    I have come to the conclusion that having a single undercity to spread, and then just using the rest, is how to do the thing properly.

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  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    Don't forget to claim your spider mount from TWA.

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  • IblisIblis Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Bethryn wrote: »
    The AI will sometimes build the 5-10% chance of expansion building in their undercities, so they can get quite a few of them. As each undercity can give +1 Skaven corruption (0.25 per building) to adjacent provinces, you will sometimes see (thanks to Clan Mors usually) very high Skaven corruption in the Badlands if they have multiple undercities.

    I have come to the conclusion that having a single undercity to spread, and then just using the rest, is how to do the thing properly.

    That's generally how I do it. Send a Warlock Engineer globe-trotting to establish an undercity on most land masses, then build the expansion building to spread to nearby provinces, eventually dismantling the building and building it in one of the new expansions to keep spreading.

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  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    As Eltharion, if you finish off a faction while you have captives of that faction in your extralegal prison, they'll disappear without giving you anything. So make sure to stab/interrogate/release them before finishing their faction off.

    If you capture a lord from a rebellion, they won't get send to prison, but instead instantly give you supplies and gold.

    Karoz
  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »

    If you capture a lord from a rebellion, they won't get send to prison, but instead instantly give you supplies and gold.

    Same thing happens to garrison generated heroes in town battles.

  • The Cow KingThe Cow King scuz me ur under dog arrest Registered User regular
    edited May 21
    Make sure to put blacktooths head in your troll wizard so you can have a free rogue idol every fight turn 3

    A 100% miscast mind you but it still rules

    The Cow King on
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    KarozLordSolarMacharius
  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    Man, all the upgrades to goblins from Grom, then from Grom's meals and from tech tree honestly makes them better than most basic orcs.

    Sadly doesn't seem like all get transferred to night goblins though the poison and what not makes them attractive in their own right.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    As someone who doesn't own the Dwarf/Greenskin DLC from Game 1 as I never had much interest in playing Greenskins, how rough would Grom's campaign be? IIRC that DLC included a lot of goblin and squig stuff.

  • CorsiniCorsini Registered User regular
    It seems like when I interrogate a prisoner I only keep that new ability as long as I have them imprisoned. My mistwalkers must need to keep talking to orcs about how to Waaagh.

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  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    edited May 21
    goblin squig riders are a pretty good unit; fast, armor piercing light cavalry. just don't expect them to be able to combat spears or specialized anti large units.

    On another note; I noticed that I didn't have the Very Hard achievement for Beast Men (I have it for WH1) so off I went...and ~250 turns later I have 1.3 mil in the bank, 6 or 7 hordes, and I finally killed off brettonia for the short victory. It only took purging the Old World & most of the south in the ME map. Dawi had 40+ settlements and were producing enough doomstacks that I made 2 new hordes just to help deal with them.

    I love bestigors now; I had Khazrak running around with 12 of them with some faster centagaurs/minotaurs. Literally didn't matter if the enemy had armor piercing ranged firepower. the blob of metal beast men just keep on trucking.

    Kruite on
  • The Cow KingThe Cow King scuz me ur under dog arrest Registered User regular
    You only miss out on three units but all of the regiments of renown except the new ones I think

    Squigs rules but you'll have pumpers instead and with the new scrap rule and grom him self the skulkers aren't that big a deal not getting

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  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited May 21
    Groms ME start isn't too bad on Legendary. The first enemy army have a trebuchet but the rest is just trash apart from the polearms. I spent 18 turns sacking Quinelle to level up Grom and the Troll Hag. Parravone kept sending half assed stacks at me. I was going to Waagh! on them but the Dwarfs took it after it was razed by Beastmen so I waagh'd them instead.

    Groms a beast in melee and the idol summon combos well with him because of the aoe damage on summon. Looted a potion of toughness on him which is helpful. He can heal a lot himself but the potion lets him get back in 'arda and soona'. Can't decide what red line skills to get apart from the arti line tho. Mostly picking up his uniques and blue line. He's really good at splitting the enemy archers from the infantry. Infantry will mostly ignore him as they advance but enemy archers will target him. He's so quick they just miss all the time.

    Can't micro the pump wagons worth a shit though. Seen them to do well for others but I can't do shit with any of them. This is why I pick kitty on Settra and hate chariots.

    danx on
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Pump wagons do have a tendency to go really deep into enemy formations...and not have enough mass to jiggle themselves free without help.

    In other news. Drunk River&Stone trolls are really powerful. Investing scrap into +15 leadership is IMHO a very good idea if you plan on using them.

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Being able to hit and run is super important. Legend if Total War did a good explained on cavalry and why he never uses the Bretonian triangle formation. 1. Less of your cavalry hit the enemy compared to a wide cavalry charge so they do less damage. And 2. The triangle charge is really good at getting your horses stuck in the middle of the enemy.

    Elvenshae
  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    Karoz wrote: »
    Man, all the upgrades to goblins from Grom, then from Grom's meals and from tech tree honestly makes them better than most basic orcs.

    Sadly doesn't seem like all get transferred to night goblins though the poison and what not makes them attractive in their own right.

    It -should- unless they bugged something. Night Gobbos are gobbos.

    Incidentally Night Gobbo Squig Herders are both gobbos and squigs and so get double bonuses.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Being able to hit and run is super important. Legend if Total War did a good explained on cavalry and why he never uses the Bretonian triangle formation. 1. Less of your cavalry hit the enemy compared to a wide cavalry charge so they do less damage. And 2. The triangle charge is really good at getting your horses stuck in the middle of the enemy.

    I am going to pretend this is why I was terrible at Bretonnia, and not all of the reasons.

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    MassenaElvenshae
  • OpposingFarceOpposingFarce Registered User regular
    I wish there was a way to start as Grimgor but use Grom's cauldron after confederating with him. It's such a good mechanic but I like starting as Grimgor.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Being able to hit and run is super important. Legend if Total War did a good explained on cavalry and why he never uses the Bretonian triangle formation. 1. Less of your cavalry hit the enemy compared to a wide cavalry charge so they do less damage. And 2. The triangle charge is really good at getting your horses stuck in the middle of the enemy.

    Triangle formation reduces over-penetration because it increases the deceleration speed.

    It massively increases damage from charging.

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  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    Ignore me, figured it out!

    SharpyVII on
  • IblisIblis Registered User regular
    I tried an Imrik Mortal Empires campaign, but man is moving around that area without an underway stance kind of a goddamn slog. Plus I could barely do anything with Snikch and Malus both on my ass very quickly. Might just have been poor luck there though. Basically I was about to try and fight my first dragon when Snikch declared war and underway stanced over despite Beastmen attacking his settlements, then yaketty saxed away while I tried to chase him down. Then he and his second army kept trying to steal the settlements I captured back wasting my time for awhile before the beastmen wiped him out. But then Malus went in to steal my port and then hunkered down with a black ark nearby. Kind of just abandoned that campaign. Might try it again, but not really liking that area.

    On the other hand I loved what I've played of Grom so far. Only downside is I started that campaign while letting a friend spectate so he could learn how to play, so now I've gotta wait for him to next be on before continuing. Well, also I've robbed the food merchant twice because she keeps bringing me the three ingredients I already have. Still, Grom's mechanic is very fun and Grom himself is just a goddamn total unit, rushing in and chopping up enemies left and right.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Yeah, I didn't realize that if you choose to fight a Dragon, you have to do it immediately.

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  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    Been a while since I did Brets but from what I recall:

    Use lance formation:
    When charging an enemy significantly weaker than you
    When charging enemy cavalry
    When charging small numbers of entities (medium monsters, artillery)

    Don't use lance formation:
    When charging for morale effect (the AI gets funny about reforming the wedge on the way out)
    When charging - even into the back - of halberd/spear troops
    On shock cavalry charging into comparatively good AP infantry

    It's also generally the case that the angle you use lance formation from matters. Hitting the corner of a rectangular group with lance formation can be much safer than hitting directly in the rear.

    You can still get good surface area from lance formation compared to a wide formation if you're breaking in deep. You just need to ensure you're safe to do so.

  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    Derp, I forgot that Greenskins can easy confederate now through beating up the faction leader. I allied Skarsnik and MA'd the other minor in the area on instinct while playing as Grom. Oh well, I didn't really want to expand in those directions anyway, I'll just leave them to it. >.>

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  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    My Eltharion vortex campaign ended with Grom being wiped out before I could get over.

    Made doing his sword quest very annoying.

    Elvenshae
  • SonelanSonelan Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Yeah, I didn't realize that if you choose to fight a Dragon, you have to do it immediately.

    You do? I just looked at my Vortex run as him and I have two quest battles I can teleport to after choosing to fight awhile ago. I just declined the battles since I was using starter stuff the first two dragons and they've been hanging around waiting since.

    Sonelan on
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    LordSolarMacharius
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    My Eltharion vortex campaign ended with Grom being wiped out before I could get over.

    Made doing his sword quest very annoying.

    Working my way down through the tomb kings towards Grom's lot and he randomly offered me a peace treaty.
    Naturally, I refused.

    SharpyVIIMoridin889KarozElvenshae
  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    I got lucky and had all other orcs on the map wiped out the last quest got canceled and I got the sword automatically.

    Are you not allowed to confederate Imrik when playing another high elf faction?

  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    Iblis wrote: »
    I tried an Imrik Mortal Empires campaign, but man is moving around that area without an underway stance kind of a goddamn slog. Plus I could barely do anything with Snikch and Malus both on my ass very quickly. Might just have been poor luck there though. Basically I was about to try and fight my first dragon when Snikch declared war and underway stanced over despite Beastmen attacking his settlements, then yaketty saxed away while I tried to chase him down. Then he and his second army kept trying to steal the settlements I captured back wasting my time for awhile before the beastmen wiped him out. But then Malus went in to steal my port and then hunkered down with a black ark nearby. Kind of just abandoned that campaign. Might try it again, but not really liking that area.

    Imrik has one of the most challenging starts in the game on ME. There are a lot of complaints about it. Snikch will turn up with 3 to 4 stacks really early (turn 14-20) and you have to be prepared for it or campaign is over. There's also RNG element in other factions declaring war on while Imrik is busy with Snikch.

    So far consensus seems to be from people who've beat it on harder difficulties is if you don't have lightning strike by the time Snikch is on your ass you are fucked. If you don't have tier 3 dragon landmark you are fucked. If you don't have enough money you are fucked. If Snikch destroys the orcs earlier you are fucked. If other factions declare war on you ... If you have all of those things going in your favour you might still be fucked because Skaven ambushes.

    Surviving Snikch is the worst part. Once that's over it's not easy but it is more manageable. It doesn't help he can't trade with the other high elfs until he takes half the map.

    I'm looking forward to trying it but expecting to fail hard.

    Fencingsax
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    It's almost like Snikch is stupidly broken or something!

  • IblisIblis Registered User regular
    Snikch also just has a very convenient location there, since he can pretty trivially underway stance past a mountain range and rivers into your territory, while Imrik has to awkwardly go around. Combined with Snikch almost certainly having at least an extra army while you're still struggling to build up means that even if you can trounce him, trying to fucking pin him down is a nightmare while he can outmaneuver and ambush you with ease. I wish I could say the Beastmen were helpful in weakening him, but for the most part they just burned his undefended settlements before I could take them and spread chaos corruption which just made dealing with him harder.

    I was hoping to try Imrik without dealing with the main vortex campaign, but that's just kind of a miserable position for the moment.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Sonelan wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Yeah, I didn't realize that if you choose to fight a Dragon, you have to do it immediately.

    You do? I just looked at my Vortex run as him and I have two quest battles I can teleport to after choosing to fight awhile ago. I just declined the battles since I was using starter stuff the first two dragons and they've been hanging around waiting since.

    Huh. I thought my quest battles disappeared.
    ...

    I just realized that I checked the herald/beacon position, not the actual quest.

    In my defence, it was like 4:30

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    KarozElvenshae
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    I can't figure out what this hag wants for din dins. Something with 3 items and winged stuff in it. Tried a bunch of stuff with flying monster parts in it but nothings working.

    Don't recruit Gotrek btw. It'll work fine until he is wounded then you can't replace him because the game will crash. Unsure if it's happening when he goes away. Safer just to ignore him.

    Unlucky
  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    danx wrote: »
    Iblis wrote: »
    I tried an Imrik Mortal Empires campaign, but man is moving around that area without an underway stance kind of a goddamn slog. Plus I could barely do anything with Snikch and Malus both on my ass very quickly. Might just have been poor luck there though. Basically I was about to try and fight my first dragon when Snikch declared war and underway stanced over despite Beastmen attacking his settlements, then yaketty saxed away while I tried to chase him down. Then he and his second army kept trying to steal the settlements I captured back wasting my time for awhile before the beastmen wiped him out. But then Malus went in to steal my port and then hunkered down with a black ark nearby. Kind of just abandoned that campaign. Might try it again, but not really liking that area.

    Imrik has one of the most challenging starts in the game on ME. There are a lot of complaints about it. Snikch will turn up with 3 to 4 stacks really early (turn 14-20) and you have to be prepared for it or campaign is over. There's also RNG element in other factions declaring war on while Imrik is busy with Snikch.

    So far consensus seems to be from people who've beat it on harder difficulties is if you don't have lightning strike by the time Snikch is on your ass you are fucked. If you don't have tier 3 dragon landmark you are fucked. If you don't have enough money you are fucked. If Snikch destroys the orcs earlier you are fucked. If other factions declare war on you ... If you have all of those things going in your favour you might still be fucked because Skaven ambushes.

    Surviving Snikch is the worst part. Once that's over it's not easy but it is more manageable. It doesn't help he can't trade with the other high elfs until he takes half the map.

    I'm looking forward to trying it but expecting to fail hard.

    You cant play him as a normal character. He's from a lineage of dragons. Burn everything to ash.

    Dont hold territory, just utilize his early quest to occupy/raze/sack 6 different settlements, Confederate with Caledor, and get out of that deathtrap.

    KarozElvenshae
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    The high elfs are kicking my arse so hard as Grom. I'm winning but am taking insane casualties. So glad I killed the fey enchantress before Ikit took her out. Damn.

    It's mostly the flying units. Do the green skins have a root? I keep forgetting about Mither.

  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    It's been awhile since my last Greenskins attempt (the only campaign I was intending to play all the way through but aborted by choice, Skarsnik, because it was so un-fun in the midgame) so I kinda forgot how their economy works.

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    Good lord that sack number.

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    KarozKruiteElvenshae
  • UnluckyUnlucky That's not meant to happen Registered User regular
    danx wrote: »
    I can't figure out what this hag wants for din dins. Something with 3 items and winged stuff in it. Tried a bunch of stuff with flying monster parts in it but nothings working
    If you or anyone else figures this out please let us know, I'm stuck there too. 3 ingredients one of them being 'Winged gubbinz' I know that relates to the colour on the left hand side.(Those have names fyi, this one is green).

    Fantastic
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Imrik was fun but I don’t know that I can be bothered to root out the green skins for this win condition

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

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