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[Chernobyl] In Soviet Russia....

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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    I mean given their clothes are still radioactive the dust and stuff must have been long lasting

    The key concept here is dosage. Dust sticks to the clothes, which have a high surface area in communication with the environment. Accumulate enough radioactive particles with long enough half lives, such as Caesium-137, and you'll be radioactive for more than 30 years. But you can have a single atom of Caesium-137 on you and technically be radioactive for the same amount of time. Note that the dosimeters used probably pick up alpha, beta, gamma, and x-ray radiation. This is part of why they tend to jump up in activity in close proximity, because you're additionally catching beta radiation which will dissipate in air after going about a meter. So the amount of clicks in a general dosimeter is not terribly proportionate with the ionizing radiation actually reaching your body, because a large portion of it in closer proximity will not be gamma radiation. In addition, alpha and beta radiation are much more ionizing than gamma radiation, meaning they do a lot more damage. With the exception of neutron radiation, the more penetrating radiation is, the less damaging it is, which is why you really, really don't want to get alpha and beta particles inside your body, where they won't have to worry about penetration.
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Her husband was still radioactive even when he died. That's the reason for the zinc coffins and concrete burials.

    I looked it up, and hermetically sealed zinc coffins were actually common burials in the Soviet union outside of the Chernobyl incident. I can't get a verification that they were also encased in concrete; let me know if you do.

    Zinc coffins are commonly used to transport and bury soldiers by the Russians, it's just a government issued coffin, not sure that it had anything to do with blocking radiation, in fact the reason zinc is used is because the coffin can still be x-rayed at airports while sealed, what it does do is prevent contamination of ground water because it's hermetically sealed. The grave site in Moscow where they were buried is still radioactive to this day.

    Edit: although some reports say some liquidators were buried in lead coffins, I'm not sure about that.

    This is actually really interesting because after googling I'm also getting conflicting reports about the coffin material and the nature of the concrete encasement regarding the 23 graves in the Mitinskoye cemetery - some sources say lead, most say zinc, some say concrete slabs were used, some say a concrete border was used, and some say they were covered in marble like any other grave. I can't find verification that the gravesites are still radioactive, much less how much of a dose they are emitting. It doesn't help that Russia is still secretive about this, which in my eyes creates more public doubts and fears about the properties of radiation.

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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    DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    I assume the marble is referring to the decorative ceremonial cover added after the fact.

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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    I assume the marble is referring to the decorative ceremonial cover added after the fact.

    This is me just nitpicking, but concrete liners are often used in regular burials to prevent the grave from caving in. Marble, being a bit denser than concrete, would actually be even better at blocking radiation. Lead is obviously much better, but is a health hazard of its own.

    I did find horrifying accounts of people that were buried in lead coffins, including the three soldiers literally impaled by radioactive rods, a family that mistakenly ingested Caesium 137 powder and rubbed it on their bodies like glitter, and Marie Curie and her effects. The latter is actually interesting because she worked with Radium-226, which while radioactive isn't a big deal because it has a half life of 1600 years, but on the other hand alpha decays into Radon 222, which itself decays into a series of radioactive metals and gases, emitting a good amount of alpha, beta, and gamma radiation in the process. Also there was a rich guy who drank 1400 bottles of radium and lost most of his jaw and brain; he got a lead coffin.

    The common thread of these people is long term saturation and ingestion of large amounts of radioactive material (except for the impaled soldiers who got a huge dose in a split second) and in general IAEA recommendations are geared toward preventing the leaching of the physical radioactive contaminants into the environment, where they can be locally concentrated, instead of completely preventing external beam exposure, which is deemed negligible in internalized contamination.

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Easter of last year I was in the Alps to go skiing. The town we were at was famous for its natural springs, and one of the "attractions" at the hotel were radium showers, where you could shower in water containing radium.

    I chose not to partake.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    On a related note regarding radiation: Marie Curie’s papers are still radioactive, are stored in lead containers, and people are required to wear protection while examining them. Even her cookbook is still highly radioactive.

    Also apparently the doorknob to her office and the back of her chair. Not high levels, but detectable.

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    BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    I assume the marble is referring to the decorative ceremonial cover added after the fact.

    This is me just nitpicking, but concrete liners are often used in regular burials to prevent the grave from caving in. Marble, being a bit denser than concrete, would actually be even better at blocking radiation. Lead is obviously much better, but is a health hazard of its own.

    I did find horrifying accounts of people that were buried in lead coffins, including the three soldiers literally impaled by radioactive rods, a family that mistakenly ingested Caesium 137 powder and rubbed it on their bodies like glitter, and Marie Curie and her effects. The latter is actually interesting because she worked with Radium-226, which while radioactive isn't a big deal because it has a half life of 1600 years, but on the other hand alpha decays into Radon 222, which itself decays into a series of radioactive metals and gases, emitting a good amount of alpha, beta, and gamma radiation in the process. Also there was a rich guy who drank 1400 bottles of radium and lost most of his jaw and brain; he got a lead coffin.

    The common thread of these people is long term saturation and ingestion of large amounts of radioactive material (except for the impaled soldiers who got a huge dose in a split second) and in general IAEA recommendations are geared toward preventing the leaching of the physical radioactive contaminants into the environment, where they can be locally concentrated, instead of completely preventing external beam exposure, which is deemed negligible in internalized contamination.

    I always get a little queasy thinking about the Radium Girls, one of the most sobering examples of worker endangerment/occupational disease in US history.

    What Phillip Morris did later in the century about blowing smoke up the public's ass about the non-harmful nature of their products and manufacturing praxtices, the Radium Dial Company had on lock 30-40 years before.

    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
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    SealSeal Registered User regular
    Scott Manley (normally a space and astronomy enthusiast, but he's also done a series of videos on nuclear weapons) made a video that dives a little deeper into what happened with the reactor and the test they were trying to run.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3d3rzFTrLg

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    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    I always get a little queasy thinking about the Radium Girls, one of the most sobering examples of worker endangerment/occupational disease in US history.

    What Phillip Morris did later in the century about blowing smoke up the public's ass about the non-harmful nature of their products and manufacturing praxtices, the Radium Dial Company had on lock 30-40 years before.

    And the same methods are being used by climate change deniers and anti-vaxxers (measles isn't so bad!) and the NRA and so on. Not learning the lessons of the past has consequences in different forms for forever on.

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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Stumbled across this.
    https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/this-reactor-model-is-no-good-documents-show-politburo-skepticism-of-chernobyl-a-752696.html
    Excerpts from the minutes of the politburo, the inner circle of the Soviet party leadership, were later published, but only in fragments ... They reveal leaders who were overwhelmed by events because their underlings had lied to them for years.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Her husband was still radioactive even when he died. That's the reason for the zinc coffins and concrete burials.

    I looked it up, and hermetically sealed zinc coffins were actually common burials in the Soviet union outside of the Chernobyl incident. I can't get a verification that they were also encased in concrete; let me know if you do.

    They used to put Afghanistan War fatalities in zinc coffins. Hence the turn of phrase "boys in zinc"

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    SealSeal Registered User regular
    Why was that, overabundance of zinc due to high zinc quotas?

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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    It was cheap enough to be part of the military's standard coffin designs, basically. I don't know if there was a specific practical reason for the choice or not.

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    DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Zink lined coffins can be hermetically sealed and x-rayed, which is something you'd need to do when shipping bodies through a commercial airport.

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    y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Zink lined coffins can be hermetically sealed and x-rayed, which is something you'd need to do when shipping bodies through a commercial airport.

    Funny because if they can be x-rayed, they’re super poor at shielding radiation

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    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
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    MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Zink lined coffins can be hermetically sealed and x-rayed, which is something you'd need to do when shipping bodies through a commercial airport.

    Funny because if they can be x-rayed, they’re super poor at shielding radiation

    Hence all the concrete, presumably

    uH3IcEi.png
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I believe that they're used for air transport purposes, though I'm not really sure of the benefits. But to be buried in a zinc coffin was basically standard for any military, security service or personal who died on a government operation because that's just what they used.

    Incidentally the Soviet military slang term for a dead body being taken back home was Cargo-200, because the allotted weight allowance for a dead soldier plus coffin was 200 kilograms.

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    AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    This is one of the cleanest, most effective shows I've ever seen. Just perfect, minimalist design, excellent casting, restrained script, ideal choice of a residential area in Lithuania, exemplary pacing, just enough elaboration on side stories. All filmed in four months.

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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    This is a good thread talking about the show's title and font and how they are making fantastic choices:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/graphic_design/comments/burcqg/absolutely_love_the_font_choice_for_the_chernobyl/

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    No backwards Rs.

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    wazillawazilla Having a late dinner Registered User regular
    "I've already given my life, isn't that enough"

    "I'm sorry, no"

    oof, girl, damn

    Psn:wazukki
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    GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    They did a 6th episode of the podcast where they talk with Jared Harris. Russia's more recent accident with the nuclear powered cruise missile is discussed at the start of the podcast:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsFlWDPrxWM

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    MorranMorran Registered User regular
    Hey, was that chief pup snuffer Leo from A Way Out? So weird seeing a vidya boy in real life.

    Yup

    Fares Fares

    Way late to comment on this (just watched the series), but not only is the actor indeed Fares Fares, who starred in "A Way Out", he is also the brother of the director of the game (Josef Fares), who also directed "Brothers - a tale of two sons".

    As mentioned previously, the director of "Chernobyl", Johan Renck (also a swede), is most known (in Sweden) for his music career in the early 90s under the name "stakka bo", with his most famous song being "here we go".

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