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the PC game thread where we are still accountably talking about Baldur's Gate

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    I grew to hate Minsc in my recent playthrough of BG1 and 2.

    Edit: He is a character I liked when I was young but kind of grates on me now because I do not like that kind of comedic character.

    Couscous on
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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    Yeah, I used to love Minsc

    but nowadays I'm like how soon can I get rid of this meathead goober

    Bring back Xan, that's what I say

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    I grew to hate Minsc in my recent playthrough of BG1 and 2.

    He was one of my favorites when I originally played it (at like... 12 to 14?), I always kept him in my party, even if I shifted around other people

    And man, I cannot stand him if I go back to the games now

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    minsc is a fishmalk

    liEt3nH.png
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    DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    JUSTICE FOR YOSHIMO

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    A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    My current Divinity 2 group is Lohse - Fire/Poison mage, Ifan - Stabby rogue, Beast - Summoner, Zebby - 2hander with some necromancy.

    It's good times so far. The change in the Torturer talent is crazy good

    vm8gvf5p7gqi.jpg
    Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    minsc is a fishmalk

    Now look, let's not be mean.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I never made it out of Chapter 2 of BG2 when I first played it (I still played a whole lot of the game - I kept doing various sidequests even after I had gotten enough money, and had most of my party close to max level) and honestly that's probably a good thing because I had put a lot of personal investment into Yoshimo.

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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    Yoshimo is also
    the brother of one of Sarevok's accomplices from BG1, interestingly enough

    It's a damn shame you couldn't bring him back, though you could do something with his heart, right?

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Moriveth wrote: »
    Yoshimo is also
    the brother of one of Sarevok's accomplices from BG1, interestingly enough

    It's a damn shame you couldn't bring him back, though you could do something with his heart, right?
    oh no way

    pretty sure that gal was sarevok's girlfriend

    and yeah if you take his heart to the small church in waukeen's promenade, you can cleanse it

    it doesn't do much, aside from give you a big pile of XP, but it's nice nonetheless

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    SproutSprout Registered User regular
    As mentioned before, Mazzy is probably the best companion in BG2. She's just not in the overall conversation as much because she wasn't in BG1, she's kind of hidden away on the eastern edge of the map, and by the time players find her they've probably decided on who's in their party for the long haul. I don't think the BGs shared XP to people who aren't in the party, right? That strongly disincentivizes the sort of party rotation that was a great part of later BioWare titles.

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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Moriveth wrote: »
    Yoshimo is also
    the brother of one of Sarevok's accomplices from BG1, interestingly enough

    It's a damn shame you couldn't bring him back, though you could do something with his heart, right?
    oh no way

    pretty sure that gal was sarevok's girlfriend

    and yeah if you take his heart to the small church in waukeen's promenade, you can cleanse it

    it doesn't do much, aside from give you a big pile of XP, but it's nice nonetheless
    Okay I looked it up and I may be totally off base with that stuff, I thought it was mentioned before but now I can't find anything

    I did find it touching that Sarevok's Throne Of Bhaal ending has him burying her in her homeland

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    KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    If the rumors about a BG3 is true, I hope it is using upcoming D&D adventure with Avernus.

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    AstharielAsthariel The Book Eater Registered User regular
    Moriveth wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    Moriveth wrote: »
    Yoshimo is also
    the brother of one of Sarevok's accomplices from BG1, interestingly enough

    It's a damn shame you couldn't bring him back, though you could do something with his heart, right?
    oh no way

    pretty sure that gal was sarevok's girlfriend

    and yeah if you take his heart to the small church in waukeen's promenade, you can cleanse it

    it doesn't do much, aside from give you a big pile of XP, but it's nice nonetheless
    Okay I looked it up and I may be totally off base with that stuff, I thought it was mentioned before but now I can't find anything

    I did find it touching that Sarevok's Throne Of Bhaal ending has him burying her in her homeland

    I think it may be only confirmed in some deleted content for BG2 (restorable with Unfinished Buisness mod), but I am also not sure, it's been some time.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Sprout wrote: »
    As mentioned before, Mazzy is probably the best companion in BG2. She's just not in the overall conversation as much because she wasn't in BG1, she's kind of hidden away on the eastern edge of the map, and by the time players find her they've probably decided on who's in their party for the long haul. I don't think the BGs shared XP to people who aren't in the party, right? That strongly disincentivizes the sort of party rotation that was a great part of later BioWare titles.

    Yeah, party rotation was not really a thing in the BG games. Especially because there were significant swathes of BG2 where you literally could not.

    I think there might have been some idea, especially in the first game, that a character could die and that would just be the end of their story. Like, you weren't supposed to be able to afford resurrections, and if you don't reload, then whoops, find a new party member.

    That's completely conjecture based mostly just on the number of NPCs available in BG1 though.

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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    Yeah my appreciation for Mazzy has only grown over the years. She's just such a good person!

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    AstharielAsthariel The Book Eater Registered User regular
    If anyone would like to have more dialogues from party members, I recommend this series of mods: http://www.shsforums.net/forum/353-npc-iep/

    They just add a bunch of written content for flavour, and dont change anything in gameplay.

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Sprout wrote: »
    As mentioned before, Mazzy is probably the best companion in BG2. She's just not in the overall conversation as much because she wasn't in BG1, she's kind of hidden away on the eastern edge of the map, and by the time players find her they've probably decided on who's in their party for the long haul. I don't think the BGs shared XP to people who aren't in the party, right? That strongly disincentivizes the sort of party rotation that was a great part of later BioWare titles.

    Yeah, party rotation was not really a thing in the BG games. Especially because there were significant swathes of BG2 where you literally could not.

    I think there might have been some idea, especially in the first game, that a character could die and that would just be the end of their story. Like, you weren't supposed to be able to afford resurrections, and if you don't reload, then whoops, find a new party member.

    That's completely conjecture based mostly just on the number of NPCs available in BG1 though.

    it would make sense

    I can't imagine why else they'd give you so many gat dang rogues

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    SproutSprout Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Sprout wrote: »
    As mentioned before, Mazzy is probably the best companion in BG2. She's just not in the overall conversation as much because she wasn't in BG1, she's kind of hidden away on the eastern edge of the map, and by the time players find her they've probably decided on who's in their party for the long haul. I don't think the BGs shared XP to people who aren't in the party, right? That strongly disincentivizes the sort of party rotation that was a great part of later BioWare titles.

    Yeah, party rotation was not really a thing in the BG games. Especially because there were significant swathes of BG2 where you literally could not.

    I think there might have been some idea, especially in the first game, that a character could die and that would just be the end of their story. Like, you weren't supposed to be able to afford resurrections, and if you don't reload, then whoops, find a new party member.

    That's completely conjecture based mostly just on the number of NPCs available in BG1 though.

    There was also the bit where party members could get exploded/disintegrated/dissolved and just be... gone.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Sprout wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Sprout wrote: »
    As mentioned before, Mazzy is probably the best companion in BG2. She's just not in the overall conversation as much because she wasn't in BG1, she's kind of hidden away on the eastern edge of the map, and by the time players find her they've probably decided on who's in their party for the long haul. I don't think the BGs shared XP to people who aren't in the party, right? That strongly disincentivizes the sort of party rotation that was a great part of later BioWare titles.

    Yeah, party rotation was not really a thing in the BG games. Especially because there were significant swathes of BG2 where you literally could not.

    I think there might have been some idea, especially in the first game, that a character could die and that would just be the end of their story. Like, you weren't supposed to be able to afford resurrections, and if you don't reload, then whoops, find a new party member.

    That's completely conjecture based mostly just on the number of NPCs available in BG1 though.

    There was also the bit where party members could get exploded/disintegrated/dissolved and just be... gone.

    Yeah like, that always just meant it was time to reload for me, but I can see the idea that you wouldn't.

    The games have an interesting relationship with death and resurrection, between resurrecting at temples for relatively cheap and the whole thing that if the Bhaalspawn died you got an instant game over even if everyone was toting around their own rod of resurrection.

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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    Remember Shar-Teel

    She comes across like a man-hating feminist stereotype, which is... euuughhhh

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Quiet is not the hill I'd choose to die on

    that said, The Boss was pretty great, Meryl was alright, and I think that "Mama" as a (nick?)name in a world where magic-science-babies are the key to humanity is not necessarily a bad thing, depending how that plays out

    Fragile being a woman who mostly cries in the trailer on the other hand...eh

    e: one other thing that bothers me is the doll-face-like, perfect, uncanny valley skin the female characters have. That's a thing in many japanese games I could do without. DmC5 I think moved away from that, and I like that look better. Of course, weebs across the interwebs were angry about it, but they always are, so

    Fragile also seems to have another look that's heavy on the fascist regalia, so she may have something else going on there too.

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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    Grim Dawn and DLC are on super sale at Chrono.gg today.

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    I should finish my evil party campaign of BG2:EE sometime

    I think I have myself (mage), Hexxat, Dorn, Vicona, Edwin and Korgan

    gonna ditch Korgan for Sarevok come ToB

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    press x to tug at vines

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    https://www.vg247.com/2019/05/31/can-stories-apolitical-asked-video-game-writers-narrative-designers
    Not everyone agrees with this sentiment, however. Freelance games writer and narrative designer Chris Avellone believes stories can be apolitical, and that his are. “They may become political as societal norms change, but I believe it’s possible to do apolitical games,” he says. “I also don’t condone developers who want to do political games or make a statement – I think a game is served better by asking a question, provide a range of perspectives on the question, but then leaving the answer to the player. I try to frame any politics in the parameters of the world, the lore, and the franchise.

    “The reason I take this approach is because I view games as entertainment. If you’re purposely pushing an agenda or point of view in your game – especially a real-world one that’s clearly divorced from the game world – and you’re dictating that perspective as correct vs. asking a question or examining the perspective more broadly, then it’s left the gaming realm and the ‘game’ has become a pulpit.”
    “When I do apolitical design, I don’t view the narrative as having nothing to say: instead, the stories may have something to say in the context of the game world – the game’s commentary may be simply on the game world, gods, factions, or some other aspect of the lore or franchise itself and ideally, the player is part of the story and not simply there to passively listen to what the game is saying, but what they can bring to the story and the world through interacting with it,” Avellone explains. “I think a game, especially a role-playing game, can have a considerable amount to say by examining what the player brings to the equation and players asking themselves what kind of character and what kind of player they are when confronted with a situation that’s not clearly black and white.”
    All of that sounds extremely political.

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Sprout wrote: »
    As mentioned before, Mazzy is probably the best companion in BG2. She's just not in the overall conversation as much because she wasn't in BG1, she's kind of hidden away on the eastern edge of the map, and by the time players find her they've probably decided on who's in their party for the long haul. I don't think the BGs shared XP to people who aren't in the party, right? That strongly disincentivizes the sort of party rotation that was a great part of later BioWare titles.

    There were different level versions of the character when you first recruited them based on the PC’s level, but yeah after that nothing

    I played through BG2 (full runs, 100% with expansion) at least 15 times...the first couple to make sure I was able to do specific party comps with the built-in NPCs, a few runs mixing in modded NPCs and a few where I did single player multiplayer with my own min-maxed characters. Probably over 2000 hours of total playtime in that game.

    I also did a couple runs with a mod that updated BG1 to the BG2 ruleset and ran with my own characters from 0xp in Candle’s Keep to gibbing Melissan. Probably another 1000 hours there.

    I played through the IW:D series, Planescape and the NWN series after that. Haven’t played a BioWare or Black Isle->Obsidian game since BW moves to consoles.

    Sounds like I have quite a backlog to get to now...

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.vg247.com/2019/05/31/can-stories-apolitical-asked-video-game-writers-narrative-designers
    Not everyone agrees with this sentiment, however. Freelance games writer and narrative designer Chris Avellone believes stories can be apolitical, and that his are. “They may become political as societal norms change, but I believe it’s possible to do apolitical games,” he says. “I also don’t condone developers who want to do political games or make a statement – I think a game is served better by asking a question, provide a range of perspectives on the question, but then leaving the answer to the player. I try to frame any politics in the parameters of the world, the lore, and the franchise.

    “The reason I take this approach is because I view games as entertainment. If you’re purposely pushing an agenda or point of view in your game – especially a real-world one that’s clearly divorced from the game world – and you’re dictating that perspective as correct vs. asking a question or examining the perspective more broadly, then it’s left the gaming realm and the ‘game’ has become a pulpit.”
    “When I do apolitical design, I don’t view the narrative as having nothing to say: instead, the stories may have something to say in the context of the game world – the game’s commentary may be simply on the game world, gods, factions, or some other aspect of the lore or franchise itself and ideally, the player is part of the story and not simply there to passively listen to what the game is saying, but what they can bring to the story and the world through interacting with it,” Avellone explains. “I think a game, especially a role-playing game, can have a considerable amount to say by examining what the player brings to the equation and players asking themselves what kind of character and what kind of player they are when confronted with a situation that’s not clearly black and white.”
    All of that sounds extremely political.

    well it took a long time but chris avellone finally said something dumb

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    Bluedude152Bluedude152 Registered User regular
    The best part of the Mobile game thing is it is designed that you run out of energy at the child dying

    p0a2ody6sqnt.jpg
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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Actually, now that I think of it, one of my college roommates did a super hardcore Baldur's Gate 2 game where he wouldn't reload when he lost a party member (other than the Bhaalspawn, for obvious reasons) or resurrect anyone or anything, all at the highest difficulty

    He didn't use the stock NPCs though (or if he did, they didn't last very long), and instead would do it like, XCOM style making people that we knew into whatever he needed at the time to replace a fallen party member

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.vg247.com/2019/05/31/can-stories-apolitical-asked-video-game-writers-narrative-designers
    Not everyone agrees with this sentiment, however. Freelance games writer and narrative designer Chris Avellone believes stories can be apolitical, and that his are. “They may become political as societal norms change, but I believe it’s possible to do apolitical games,” he says. “I also don’t condone developers who want to do political games or make a statement – I think a game is served better by asking a question, provide a range of perspectives on the question, but then leaving the answer to the player. I try to frame any politics in the parameters of the world, the lore, and the franchise.

    “The reason I take this approach is because I view games as entertainment. If you’re purposely pushing an agenda or point of view in your game – especially a real-world one that’s clearly divorced from the game world – and you’re dictating that perspective as correct vs. asking a question or examining the perspective more broadly, then it’s left the gaming realm and the ‘game’ has become a pulpit.”
    “When I do apolitical design, I don’t view the narrative as having nothing to say: instead, the stories may have something to say in the context of the game world – the game’s commentary may be simply on the game world, gods, factions, or some other aspect of the lore or franchise itself and ideally, the player is part of the story and not simply there to passively listen to what the game is saying, but what they can bring to the story and the world through interacting with it,” Avellone explains. “I think a game, especially a role-playing game, can have a considerable amount to say by examining what the player brings to the equation and players asking themselves what kind of character and what kind of player they are when confronted with a situation that’s not clearly black and white.”
    All of that sounds extremely political.

    well it took a long time but chris avellone finally said something dumb

    not quite milkshake duck territory at least

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Actually, now that I think of it, one of my college roommates did a super hardcore Baldur's Gate 2 game where he wouldn't reload when he lost a party member (other than the Bhaalspawn, for obvious reasons) or resurrect anyone or anything, all at the highest difficulty

    He didn't use the stock NPCs though (or if he did, they didn't last very long), and instead would do it like, XCOM style making people that we knew into whatever he needed at the time to replace a fallen party member

    yeah you could do that if you played in multiplayer mode, but on your own. you'd have to save the game and go back to the lobby every time you made a new character though

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    TheySlashThemTheySlashThem Registered User regular
    I don't know who that is, but in this day and age, anyone who says we should "keep political agendas out of games" is immediately suspect, imo

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    I don't know who that is, but in this day and age, anyone who says we should "keep political agendas out of games" is immediately suspect, imo

    just one of the most competent and celebrated games writers, designers or narrative designs in the entire industry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Avellone

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I have to assume he is working on some bizarro definition of political there, because so many of the games he's worked on are damn near explicitly political

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    A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Sounds like a perfectly fine opinion to have, really. It's not the opinion I would have, but I can't fault him I guess?

    Like, I read that and thought "ok"

    With the caveat that I think his stuff has been political in the past. At least I thought so

    A Dabble Of Thelonius on
    vm8gvf5p7gqi.jpg
    Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    I have to assume he is working on some bizarro definition of political there, because so many of the games he's worked on are damn near explicitly political

    yeah it's kinda perplexing

    I assume he means games that are specifically made to talk about a specific political thing, or something? I really can't figure it out, honestly.

This discussion has been closed.