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[Slay the Spire] Roguelike excellence now on consoles! iOS later this year!

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Posts

  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Survivor is a bad shrug the shoulders/leap.

    Neutralize is a fine card.

    1 extra strike and 1 extra defend, two of the worst cards in the game, is bad.

    (I'm glad you've come around on dualcast :D)

    I only looked at watcher for a minute and yes, 2 energy costs is bad in early game, but watcher also generates a free energy card to help?

    No, Leap is a bad card because it blocks without doing anything else (And it does so on a class that's great at generating passive block). Survivor's discard is super relevant throughout the game. Defect needs like one extra defensive card early, and leap is generally the bottom of the pile - it's just too often a dud card. (Compare Charge battery which lets you pass an unused energy to the next turn, or the ilk).

    Also you... get survivor at the start of the game, for free. You have to luck into finding leap, which is a big big difference. Yes, having one more strike and defend is not great, but it's hardly the worst either

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    I'd rather have 4 strikes, 4 defends, and any common (or even no common!) than 5 strikes, 5 defends, and survivor.

  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited September 10
    Hmmm.

    The game tells me there are new unlocks remaining for ironclad and silent on the beta branch?


    Edit: Oh. I guess the beta branch doesn't use the normal game unlock progression. Nevermind!

    Burtletoy on
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII Registered User regular
    I love the sprite design for the new character, and the effects around her when you activate the different stances. A lot of the cards I've seen seem iffy but balance will come with time.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
    kime
  • UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
    edited September 10
    The new character has a deck archetype of saving all your damage cards then swapping stances and smacking your opponents to death
    I managed to kill Donu and Deca within 2 turns of wraith stance. I've not even unlocked divinity stance yet :D

    UrQuanLord88 on
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    edited September 10
    So far the character feels like you really have to combo out, which leads you very vulnerable to bad draws screwing you over. Deep in a20/act 3, but i think i'm dead to reptomancer - the other problem is you're just so SLOW to ramp up. Lots of eggs to juggle.

    I'll try and stream some of it tomorrow, and fumble around. It does feel like the class has too many expensive cards? Like you'd think being able to dodge in and out of calm would get you far, but it's nowhere near as reliable as you'd hope. I also have little idea how you block with this class, short of getting the power that lets you get a Saftey in your hand each turn.

    Also feels like there could really stand to be a third stance (that's not divinity) that gives you block on enter? Or draws some cards? The stance-dancing mechanic is super cool, but i think the class just needs... more of it, and more chances to do it, as it's very limited right now. A 3rd accessible stance would really smooth out the lumps (Rather than constantly being stuck with calm cards when you're in calm, or the ilk)

    The Zombie Penguin on
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  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    I love the sprite design for the new character, and the effects around her when you activate the different stances. A lot of the cards I've seen seem iffy but balance will come with time.

    it feels like they threw in way more cards than needed and are just testing which ones work better, since a lot of them seem very similar with a few small tweaks

    B.net: Naphtali#1830 | Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | PSN: EI-Naphtali | Wish List
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    I'm really, really surprised there's no defensive stance.

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    joshofalltradesakjakGoodKingJayIII
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    I'm really, really surprised there's no defensive stance.

    She really needs one TBH considering one of the main build types they seem to be pushing is Divinity, a mechanic that involves you delaying any damage done for more than one turn

    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
    Evil Multifarious
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Yeah, the stance dancing really needs to provide more options than churning cards for energy + damage

    I wonder why they left it out, or if there's a plan to add something like it

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    Duke 2.0GoodKingJayIII
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    I doubt they planned for that, there’s a fuck ton of cards as is.

    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    I'm really, really surprised there's no defensive stance.

    I haven't had any problems blocking with her, Alter Reality(?) (the power that gives you a retained 10 dmg attack or a 12 block card per turn) combined with the card that reduces all retained card costs meant I had hand full of 0-cost 12 blocks during my last run. The one before that I got a few of the UC block cards that retain and gain +block every turn they are retained. Also she gets Deva Form, which is 9 (12) plated armor.

    Did my second run today and it went a lot better though I got my scaling from Shuriken so I'm not sure how well she does without a relic strength source. Finished Woke Bird with max hp thanks to billions of free block and Bites. I did have a really crappy start. I got Unravel as my Neow option rare card and I basically never played it, with a class that relies on retained cards and combos playing your whole hand from left to right to random targets feels like a bad idea 95% of the time. Took almost 2 hours, looking forward to more cards having some sort of art so I can play a bit faster.

  • BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    edited September 10
    Early impressions of what works and what doesn't for the watcher.

    Divinity stance is one of the best ways to actually deal some damage, something the watcher is really bad at.

    The power that gives you 2/3 progress to divinity a turn seem to be the best way to get there.
    Prostrate and pray seem like OK ways to get there.
    the 2 energy for 5 progress do nothing else seems like the worst way to get there.

    Retain block cards seem good, retain damage cards seem bad to mediocre. Like the (x) put (x) retain damage cards in your hand is very bad. because they still cost 1. So paying 1 energy to add it to your hand and 1 to play it for 14 damage is bad. Retain block cards get even better with the power that lowers the costs of retained cards. It is worth having some(like one or two) retain damage cards in your deck for Divinity turns.

    The way the self buffing retain cards work is inconsistent. Sometimes I think they keep the buffs for the next time you draw them, sometimes they don't?

    Scry is OK. The card you draw when you dump it isn't enough of a pay off, but getting to decide what you draw is both really strong and really skill testing. The cards that do it aren't super good though, the damage common that draws a card is OK and the power is also OK.

    Stance switching is bad. The best use for it seems to be cheap way into wrath stance > do damage and kill them or end it with an empty body(block and drop stance card). Ideally you would mix in the 0 cost card that blocks for 9 when you're in wrath. Calm stance is best used so you can go off big when you do your wrath stance turn, but it doesn't seem worth it. and trying to dance back and forth multiple times in a turn doesn't seem to get you anywhere right now.

    Chain cards are bad. The "if your last cards was a _" cards. Are just cards from other classes with conditionals added to them. Like, the watcher has shrug it off, but only if you chain it right. Notably, chains last between turns.

    Damage commons mostly seem to suck, but you have to take them to get though act 1, and to deal any damage ever. The best ones seem to be the scry and draw a card and the sometimes apply vulnerable chain card.

    high priced rare attacks also suck, somehow even worse.
    3 energy deal 25, you don't get to choose where it goes? WTH? Dash+ that costs 3, and doesn't always give you the block? They are I guess supposed to combo with the block 8, play next attack free card. But that seems way too much work for too little pay off.

    Stand out cards.

    3 energy go intangible, deal 15 next turn is very good.

    Wish is next to useless, but wish+ is amazing when your deck has a couple of good 3 cost cards to use it with.

    Alpha is worth building a deck around, as you can usually get it online with 1 pass though your deck.

    The plated armor form [ 3 energy for 9/12 plated armor] is OK to good. and is really good with wish.

    Talk to the hand is a decent damage card that works like a permanent rage, but gets blocked by artifact.

    Block 2(3) for each card in your hand is good.

    Currently I don't think artifact interactions are working for many watcher cards. Like the go intangible deal 15 looks like a debuff but doesn't interact with artifact. The "kill yourself next turn card" and the "you can't leave wrath stance this turn" card are the same.

    BSoB on

    MNC Dover
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Stance related effects appear to be disconnected from status effects, yeah. That may be on purpose.

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    I wasn't going to try the beta because I'm happy to wait for these things to be "actually put together and fun to play", but the degree to which everyone is Boo-Hissing made me very curious.

    Naturally, the first thing I noticed that bothered me far more than is justifiable, was that her character screen image has no blindfold, but the character avatar does. ... !!!!!!! :P
    I dunno. I beat Act 1 A0 on my first go, but it definitely feels like playing your cards just takes time. Pretty sure I'll get flattened in Act 2 because I got no energy relics (runic pyramid felt smart though?), but I did get a rare card that auto-kills an enemy who has less than 30(40) life. This seemed like something I would have liked explored more, because circumventing block and intangible is definitely interesting, and I feel like there could have been more play around debuff effects with this character (turning them around on the enemy, or removing them from them for some benefit).

    Ultimately, I'm really curious where this goes, because I'm too lazy to look up if I ever posted about how a stance character was something I was hoping to see. However I expected the stances to do something like +/- STR and DEX and stuff, not the wonkiness this seems to entail. :pop:


    Also did an Ironclad run - Duplication Potion seems very strong (expected this) and new Calling Bell is 100% worth taking now, which is nice~

    Fencingsax
  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    I did get a rare card that auto-kills an enemy who has less than 30(40) life. This seemed like something I would have liked explored more, because circumventing block and intangible is definitely interesting

    Reading through Reddit threads seem to say it doesn't circumvent intangible but does cut through block. I had it during my first run and it's great for killing off lower hp enemies for sure.

  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    Spoilers for some unintuitive Watcher mechanic interactions. Some of those might be bugs but that's how things work at the moment.

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    I did get a rare card that auto-kills an enemy who has less than 30(40) life. This seemed like something I would have liked explored more, because circumventing block and intangible is definitely interesting

    Reading through Reddit threads seem to say it doesn't circumvent intangible but does cut through block. I had it during my first run and it's great for killing off lower hp enemies for sure.

    Does Judgment get through the Heart after you've hit 200 damage?

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  • BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    probably not since it doesn't go through intangible.


    Mirkel
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited September 10
    Mirkel wrote: »
    Spoilers for some unintuitive Watcher mechanic interactions. Some of those might be bugs but that's how things work at the moment.

    The one that really bothers me is that the reduction in cost power for retained cards doesn't affect them if they've been temporarily reduced to cost zero, by eg mummified hand

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    I think the new class is great, I'm not boo hissing at all

    It will need some tuning, but players need to figure out

    Yeah, when trying out a new thing you will see the flaws first. Some of those are there because this is beta, some of the perceived flaws are probably just players playing badly and not seeing the big picture.

    I've gotten about 3.5 runs now done and the damage side seems quite fiddly to me. Getting some block going is as easy as with any other class but getting Wrath or Divinity engine purring so you can start really doing damage feels harder than assembling the pieces for strength or poison or orb deck. It's most definitely a 4th character, even more complex than the Defect. Looking forward to see what sort of changes patches will bring.

    Also this is probably just me but having Blasphemy in my deck just makes me nervous I'll misclick it or think I have lethal but miscalculate. I'll probably skip it in the future just for those reasons.

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    I find the damage is not the difficult part if you have multiple sources of wrath. It's doing the damage and surviving that's hard.

    Just got my first win with a retain build focused on holding 0 cost big block cards to protect me on wrath turns, and it worked very well.

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    Duke 2.0
  • BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    edited September 11
    I keep dying at the Act 1 boss. :|

    I would definitely prefer that calm gave block instead of card draw.

    And my favorite update is that conditionals now have a gold outline when they are met :+1:

    Bedlam on
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    just got my second win in a row, feels good

    divinity builds work and are good. against time eater I was in divinity every turn.

    talk to the hand is probably broken.

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    edited September 11
    Big balance changes today.

    Lots of changes. Half of what I said a few posts back is obsolete.

    BSoB on

    ArcticLancerkime
  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    So I bought this on my Switch yesterday night and then, as is presumably traditional, stayed up until about 2:30 playing it.

    I've managed to beat Act 3 with the first two characters so far; the Ironclad one would've been a turn one kill except I guess that boss just resurrects itself the first time you kill it? And the Silent run before this one was going swimmingly because I was playing a deck with double Adrenaline that would play the whole deck several times in the first turn, and then timelord there pooped all over that strategy.

    Luckily I got the chance to redeem myself on the next run, and:

    un1yqi7iqtrc.jpg

    Thassa lotta poisson.

    Decklists:
    y1uq7jfkso31.jpg

    fw1nm7oxiqgt.jpg

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    is this how nations are born
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    BSoB wrote: »
    Big balance changes today.

    Lots of changes. Half of what I said a few posts back is obsolete.

    Yeah, this sort of thing is half the reason i've not been worried about any intial poor impressions - Megacrit is VERY data driven with their balance, and the core themes feel good of the character. everything else is just numbers tweaking. And i frankly trust their numbers tweaking way more than than most devs - there's very few cards in the game i think are broken.

    Like... maybe Intagible and Feed? and honestly, i dont think either of those break until a: Very high asension, and B: specific playstyles. Feed particuarly requires playing it Every Single Possible Time to truly see how broken it is. And broken in the other direction, like outright bad? They're changing those cards slowly, or those relics. (I am IN LOVE with the new relic changes. Sacred Bark is seriously spicy. Regen 10 potions is Caaahraaazy. 40 damage fire pots. 20 damage aoe explosie pots. 2 intangible ghost pots!?)

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    So I bought this on my Switch yesterday night and then, as is presumably traditional, stayed up until about 2:30 playing it.

    I've managed to beat Act 3 with the first two characters so far; the Ironclad one would've been a turn one kill except I guess that boss just resurrects itself the first time you kill it? And the Silent run before this one was going swimmingly because I was playing a deck with double Adrenaline that would play the whole deck several times in the first turn, and then timelord there pooped all over that strategy.

    Luckily I got the chance to redeem myself on the next run, and:

    un1yqi7iqtrc.jpg

    Thassa lotta poisson.

    Decklists:
    y1uq7jfkso31.jpg

    fw1nm7oxiqgt.jpg

    Yeah, pretty much tradtional! Grats on your first two wins.

    Now! Beat defect. Then beat the SECRET BOSS.

    Also climb the ascension ladder. Join us in the vaunted halls of A20.

    On that note: want to see me play the watcher at a20? You know you do!

    That's right folks, it's Zombie Penguin Spire Slaying Stream Time! Link in my signature as per usual, come and join in the fun and 'orrible death. Looking foward to discussing the class with you all =).

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    kimeMNC DoverArcticLancerAuralynxDuke 2.0
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Still terrible with defect

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Ok the sleeping boss was a rather nasty surprise. Ended up 2 HP short.

    kime
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Still terrible with defect

    What's giving you grief?

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Still terrible with defect

    What's giving you grief?

    Oh, the builds I seem to go for has a bit of a spinup time, so I tend to screw myself

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Still terrible with defect

    What's giving you grief?

    Oh, the builds I seem to go for has a bit of a spinup time, so I tend to screw myself

    Well, Focusing on builds in general may be mark one against you. At least if you're trying to group specific cards together. It's much better to think of cards as indivudal items and wether these help your current needs. To give an example, Claw - Claw is either: An early damage common, or B: a scaling damage source. you generally take Claw because of A, but also because it can become B, which is useful long term. But if your deck dosent need a scaling damage soruce that comes from attacks... then why take claw?

    That said, you're very correctly idetnfied one of Defect's key weaknesses. Defect generally has to setup, at which point once setup, it curb stomps things. This is why Snecko Eye/Powers (Creative AI/Echo Form, spiced with a Mummified Hand ideally) is so strong - Snecko Eye draws you cards and makes it easier to play your expensive setup cards.

    ON that note, The Watcher is really reminding me of the Defect. She's a LOT of fun - i'm yet to get a win on a20 with her, or even conk the A20 bosses to death, but i've gotten deep into act 3 a few times. She demands a looot of playing skill.

    So far, stuff i've noticed: Wallop is a good card, esp when in Wrath. Stance Dancing is crazy, crazy strong. the Empty Body/Mind/Fist cards are really, really good commons as a result. Double Divinity is crazy strong... if you can get it running. She still feels very, very combo orientated.

    The Uncommon attack that gives you Truth or Smite is a really good upgrade - it's basically a 2 cost attack that hits reasonbly hard, is flexible, and energy friendly. Combos well if you've got the Retain reduces E costs power too.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    New Hanging Kite is Dope.

  • MorranMorran Registered User regular
    How long have previous beta test for new characters been? Really looking forward to a new character, I'm starting to feel a bit stuck on A4-5 for the other characters.

    Can't participate in the beta due to playing on switch.

  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    edited September 11
    Defect, check. Went on to try Act 4 with this broken little thing:

    nlsk7vf5od1t.jpg

    I slammed the button to upgrade every card in exchange for being unable to heal on the second floor of Act 3, and proceeded to not take any damage until Act 3's boss, where I ended up taking about 10.

    Then didn't realize the guards had that turn around mechanic and ended up taking a single hit on accident, but that hit was about 40 damage so I went into the boss with 20something HP.

    Soooo that didn't go so well. Would've been curious to see how that deck did without that mistake, because regularly having 50ish block and 70ish damage a turn was nbd, didn't even particularly have to think about it.

    Defect seems really, really good.

    For comparison:

    Ironclad: 1 Act 3 win, 8 deaths.
    Silent: 2 Act 3 wins, 16 deaths.
    Defect: 2 Act 3 wins, 2 deaths (it says 1 victory and 3 deaths, so I'm guessing my Act 4 run just counts as a death).

    Oh, and one of those Defect losses is me noping out after the whale traded me a Lizard's Tail for my starting relic, because that seemed too boring.

    Surfpossum on
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  • BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    edited September 11
    One the changes they are trying out that we haven't talked about is move several relics around.

    From memory

    White elephant is no longer a boss relic.
    Orrery is now a shop relic.
    Meal ticket isn't a shop relic.
    Lizard Tail isn't a boss relic.

    Anybody notice anything else?
    I think White elephant and lizard tail are too good and need to be nerfed slightly to just be normal relics.

    But I really like the meal ticket change. and Orrery will depend on how much it ends up costing.

    BSoB on

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    I almost never took white elephant, so I'm happy to see it taken out of the boss pool

    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
    SurfpossumMNC DoverHefflingIncenjucar
  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    orrery is about 200g right now, so that's 5 cards for 200g. dang

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    Auralynx
  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    How can anyone afford to buy relics when all the gold I make goes directly into pulling cards out of my deck.

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