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[Slay the Spire] Silently Watching the Defective Ironclad Heart.

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Posts

  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    I wish I was even a quarter as good as jorbs

    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
    kimeMNC DoverTynnan
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Yeah I have no willpower, if I see something that would be incredible and make a unique fun run but could also destroy the run I take 100% of the time

    kimeTcheldorjakobagger
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    The top StS players have reached heights that I honestly didn't think possible several years ago. Like, 80% winrate for Heart kills on A20 or whatever. That's just bonkers.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
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  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    The top StS players have reached heights that I honestly didn't think possible several years ago. Like, 80% winrate for Heart kills on A20 or whatever. That's just bonkers.

    I remember reading some of the negative Steam reviews and people complaining on the Steam forums how the game is all about luck and how it sucks and how they never draw the right cards etc. Some people just don't understand how skill works in games like this at all. So bad they do not realize they are bad so it must be the game's fault if they lose.

    kime
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    The top StS players have reached heights that I honestly didn't think possible several years ago. Like, 80% winrate for Heart kills on A20 or whatever. That's just bonkers.

    I remember reading some of the negative Steam reviews and people complaining on the Steam forums how the game is all about luck and how it sucks and how they never draw the right cards etc. Some people just don't understand how skill works in games like this at all. So bad they do not realize they are bad so it must be the game's fault if they lose.

    In fairness, I said the same about A20 a couple years back. Not in a negative way, just a "know what you're getting yourself into" sort of way. And well, turns out no one was good enough at the time to know how wrong that was :D

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    The top StS players have reached heights that I honestly didn't think possible several years ago. Like, 80% winrate for Heart kills on A20 or whatever. That's just bonkers.

    I remember reading some of the negative Steam reviews and people complaining on the Steam forums how the game is all about luck and how it sucks and how they never draw the right cards etc. Some people just don't understand how skill works in games like this at all. So bad they do not realize they are bad so it must be the game's fault if they lose.

    you're think the genre name of "deckbuilding" would clue people in, but no.

  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    The top StS players have reached heights that I honestly didn't think possible several years ago. Like, 80% winrate for Heart kills on A20 or whatever. That's just bonkers.

    The game as of patch 2.2 is a easier than 1.0 was at A20, for sure (still fairly difficult for us mere mortals though)

    Not only because of watcher, but buffs across the board

    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
    Duke 2.0Tynnan
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    The top StS players have reached heights that I honestly didn't think possible several years ago. Like, 80% winrate for Heart kills on A20 or whatever. That's just bonkers.

    I remember reading some of the negative Steam reviews and people complaining on the Steam forums how the game is all about luck and how it sucks and how they never draw the right cards etc. Some people just don't understand how skill works in games like this at all. So bad they do not realize they are bad so it must be the game's fault if they lose.

    I have coworkers that have been playing the game for ages and haven't really pieced together how to consistently win a run. We're talking 500 hours of logged game time and haven't unlocked Ascension level 10 on any class (I'm honestly not sure they even made it to 5 but there's no achievement for that for me to be sure). I'm pretty sure a good chunk of this was played without thought and while high, but there's still a degree of "this game doesn't seem fair, I don't understand how you can win so often. I can't be that much worse than you." and that's really just how some people are going to look at it.

    NaphtaliWhelk
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited May 14
    Maybe eventually we will just get a catch-all thread for deckbuilder roguelikes but for now I figure this is as good a place as any to drop this recommendation:



    (Note: the video is from pre-release)

    Pawnbarian is a turn-based roguelike deckbuilder, where instead of cards you upgrade your chess pieces which tell your character how to move on the board and what happens when they do. So you might upgrade a bishop with the ability to attack in cardinal directions after completing its diagonal move, or maybe a rook with an ability that prevents one damage this turn after moving in a cardinal direction.

    It's a very minimalist game, but very addictive. Highly recommend.

    joshofalltrades on
    MNC DoverkimeCantidoElvenshae
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    The top StS players have reached heights that I honestly didn't think possible several years ago. Like, 80% winrate for Heart kills on A20 or whatever. That's just bonkers.

    I remember reading some of the negative Steam reviews and people complaining on the Steam forums how the game is all about luck and how it sucks and how they never draw the right cards etc. Some people just don't understand how skill works in games like this at all. So bad they do not realize they are bad so it must be the game's fault if they lose.

    I have coworkers that have been playing the game for ages and haven't really pieced together how to consistently win a run. We're talking 500 hours of logged game time and haven't unlocked Ascension level 10 on any class (I'm honestly not sure they even made it to 5 but there's no achievement for that for me to be sure). I'm pretty sure a good chunk of this was played without thought and while high, but there's still a degree of "this game doesn't seem fair, I don't understand how you can win so often. I can't be that much worse than you." and that's really just how some people are going to look at it.

    As good as StS is - and i think of the Rougelike cardgames on the market that i've played, it's still the best tuned in terms of fair, engaging difficulty at all levels - It fucking sucks at teaching you how to play it well.

    Which, to be fair - i dont think even the devs know how to play it well (I've had Casey tell me he thinks A20 heart is just no fun, while i think it's a really great evoactive challenge. So... Uh, one of the two devs is CLEARLY WRONG here.)

    Also on Rougelikes general stuff:

    ?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

    Backpack hero lets you lean into some real bullshit. (This was the final boss)

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    CantidoElvenshae
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Ive been interested in mobile deckbuilders and am sad that Monster Train has not digitized yet.

    I bounced hard off of Dawncaster when the the blood dog showed up because I'm not into that kind of inflexible optimization puzzle. I'm considering getting into Slay the Spire instead.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    I'm trying out Downfall and uh... Gosh these boss characters have complicated mechanics. Yeesh.

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
    Twitch: akThera
    Steam: Thera
    jakobaggerMNC Dover
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    As good as StS is - and i think of the Rougelike cardgames on the market that i've played, it's still the best tuned in terms of fair, engaging difficulty at all levels - It fucking sucks at teaching you how to play it well.

    Which, to be fair - i dont think even the devs know how to play it well (I've had Casey tell me he thinks A20 heart is just no fun, while i think it's a really great evoactive challenge. So... Uh, one of the two devs is CLEARLY WRONG here.)

    The game tends (or tended) to be tuned for meeting specific challenges that you would have to prepare for. This gives a lot of the difficulty in the game a dark souls like structure where it’s less about mastering the mechanics of the deck (but that is there) but mastering the landscape of the path. You pick cards in act 1 to beat specific challenges in act 2.

    I will watch jorbs play every once and a while and the amount of thought he puts into the path planning and card choices is very high. Like. He looks at the available paths before he chooses his start bonus and knows which start bonuses work with what paths.

    That makes an engaging challenge on higher difficulties for a group of people who like doing that. But it also makes the game seem blisteringly unfair for players who want a moment to moment experience. Who want to pick fun cards and make fun decks. Because very often the “fun” cards are traps. They can be good in the right deck or if you get a bunch but they don’t have the power required to beat the next boss unless you get lucky.

    One of the reasons the game got a lot easier in 2.2 was that the fun cards became less traps most of the time.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    If you pay some attention to what you are doing you can just YOLO your way through the lower ascensions, so I don't really see what's so blisteringly unfair about the game. A20 is there for the people who like that sort of challenge, it's never meant to be for everybody. And if somebody can't even win A0 games maybe this is the wrong genre for them altogether. That's the beauty of the ascension system, you can choose your own challenge level. It's no wonder tons of post-StS games have stolen that mechanic.

    The fact they've kept on tuning less-used cards to be less of a newbie traps is one of the things I do love about StS, many games just nerf whatever is too powerful but leave a lot of useless crap in the game. Since the veterans know to avoid those it doesn't affect them other than narrowing the amount of viable builds but newbies often try to make the crap work and then they fail pitifully. I always think useless cards (or units or talents or whatever) are a sign of a lazy developer.

    Ethea
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    There are absolutely still cards that do nothing (or worse than nothing) at A20

    But like you said, it isn’t as though A20 is the “right” way to play the game, so it’s mostly fine

    Naphtali
  • akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    In Backpack Hero I can't get out of the magma caves. The burns and poisons just end me and no matter how well my run is going I just can't keep up. wtf am I doing wrong? I don't even SEE enough potions to cleanse off all the crap.

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
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    Steam: Thera
  • AkimboEGAkimboEG Registered User regular
    edited May 16
    akjak wrote: »
    In Backpack Hero I can't get out of the magma caves. The burns and poisons just end me and no matter how well my run is going I just can't keep up. wtf am I doing wrong? I don't even SEE enough potions to cleanse off all the crap.

    Fire can be blocked like regular damage. Poison is more problematic, but you can sorta negate it with regen. You really need to sort out damage and/or defense scaling by zone three, or at least enter fights with plenty of extra energy usables.

    edit: The bracelets that give you rage / haste on kill are both ranked uncommon, but are probably the most consistently win-guaranteeing items I've found in the game (and imo should be bumped up to rare or legendary).

    AkimboEG on
    Give me a kiss to build a dream on; And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss; Sweetheart, I ask no more than this; A kiss to build a dream on
  • akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    AkimboEG wrote: »
    akjak wrote: »
    In Backpack Hero I can't get out of the magma caves. The burns and poisons just end me and no matter how well my run is going I just can't keep up. wtf am I doing wrong? I don't even SEE enough potions to cleanse off all the crap.

    Fire can be blocked like regular damage. Poison is more problematic, but you can sorta negate it with regen. You really need to sort out damage and/or defense scaling by zone three, or at least enter fights with plenty of extra energy usables.

    edit: The bracelets that give you rage / haste on kill are both ranked uncommon, but are probably the most consistently win-guaranteeing items I've found in the game (and imo should be bumped up to rare or legendary).

    One of my best runs I had the rage bracelet (that uses mana), nunchucks, and a barbell. That was funny.

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
    Twitch: akThera
    Steam: Thera
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    akjak wrote: »
    In Backpack Hero I can't get out of the magma caves. The burns and poisons just end me and no matter how well my run is going I just can't keep up. wtf am I doing wrong? I don't even SEE enough potions to cleanse off all the crap.

    Generally, I've just found raw damage the way to go . Like that screenshot above would trade some self damage with curses to empower the staff and then nuke things.

    Ways to get block for free so you can trade energy for damage helps. I honestly don't use consumables much - at least not cleansers. Healing items get regularly chowed down on, though. Vampire stuff can help as well

    With Burn specifically, it's deducted from your leftover block after things have attacked you. Poison is a lot harder to deal with, and it's mostly about mulching things before they can poison you

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    Ive been interested in mobile deckbuilders and am sad that Monster Train has not digitized yet.

    I bounced hard off of Dawncaster when the the blood dog showed up because I'm not into that kind of inflexible optimization puzzle. I'm considering getting into Slay the Spire instead.

    @Cantido Shiny Shoe announced they're working on a port back in March, no idea how far out it is from release

    STS is absolutely worth it on mobile, the only caveat is at least on android, don't sync it to the google play cloud, that causes issues with saves and resuming play. no idea about iOS

    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
    Cantido
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    .
    Naphtali wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    Ive been interested in mobile deckbuilders and am sad that Monster Train has not digitized yet.

    I bounced hard off of Dawncaster when the the blood dog showed up because I'm not into that kind of inflexible optimization puzzle. I'm considering getting into Slay the Spire instead.

    @Cantido Shiny Shoe announced they're working on a port back in March, no idea how far out it is from release

    STS is absolutely worth it on mobile, the only caveat is at least on android, don't sync it to the google play cloud, that causes issues with saves and resuming play. no idea about iOS

    Also, I find that once I touch a card in my hand on Android, that I have difficulty putting it back down. It's "sticky." How do you properly review your hand?

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    you could just click on the deck icon (top right) and find the cards there, then you can click on them to enlarge without the risk of playing them

    I already had a few hundred hours or so of play into the game before touching it on mobile so the limitations of the interface never caught up to me I support. huh.

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    Cantido
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