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[Slay the Spire] Slay the Spire 2 confirmed for EA 2025!

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    the only manipulable thing is pathing through the act to try to increase the chance of hitting a rare card from a card reward (elite encounters give an increased chance of seeing one than normal encounters), if you haven't seen one yet. but even then that will reset at the end of the act anyways (and is still RNG, you can go through an entire act and never get a rare card reward).

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited January 2023
    Seeing more cards does increase your odds of finding a rare. IIRC, you start at a 0% chance of getting a rare card option, and for every common you see, it goes up 1%. Uncommon cards don't change your odds. Once you see a rare it drops back to 0%.

    So sometimes if you're hunting for a rare, it's best to take more fights.

    joshofalltrades on
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    TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Card_Rewards

    Rare chance does start at 0, but it's more complex than that. There's a base rare chance of 3% for a regular hallway fight, and a modifier that starts at -5% and, as you said, increases by 1% every time a common card is rolled for a card reward.

    I didn't know that while the modifier reduces the rare chance below 0, it actually decreases the chance of an uncommon by a little, but that only impacts your rolls until your roll two commons.

    Also, rare chance in shops is impacted by these same probabilities, but doesn't change them: Commons in a shop don't increase your chance of a rare, and rares in a shop don't reset your chance modifier back to -5%.

    And Transform effects, like Pandora's Box a Neow reward, pay no attention to rarity: it removes the card and then adds a different non-basic card of the same color, each option equally likely. It's fun when you transform 8 and get 5 rares.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    What's this, a new StS player? Paging doctor @The Zombie Penguin, you're needed in the thread to break the game down to it's core pieces please. :)

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    It's worth noting that it's entirely possible, just incredibly rare to get a card reward on floor 1.

    Uh.... Otherwise, have fun. Elites are good, kill lots of elites.

    Focus on figuring out what your deck needs to beat the next floor. Card rewards are one of the best rewards possible in the game, but taking every card you see is one of the worst things you can do. These aren't as opposed as they sound

    Upgrades are good. Lots of upgrades can make for an easy win - I got mark of there bloom the other day and scored 10+ upgrades of it for a crushing victory on A20/heart

    You need less damage than you think to win, but you can't afford to dwardle either

    Elites are the best value/floor. Everything else is wildly subjective and depends on what you need at the time

    Removes are incredibly powerful due to Strike and Defend mostly being junk. This secretly makes Empty Cage, Astrolabe and Pandora's box some of the most powerful boss relics.

    Adding curses to your deck is almost never worth it, outside of events like Warped Tongs where you get a crazy pay off.

    Runic Pyramid is the single most broken relic in the game. Ironically it also makes one of the other most broken relics (Dead Branch) useless

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Runic Pyramid also makes Snecko Eye really risky, with some exceptions

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Snecko Eye is always risky :tongue:

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Runic Pyramid also makes Snecko Eye really risky, with some exceptions

    The things that Runic Pyramid does and the things that Snecko Eye does are just so heavily opposed that taking both is foolish in my books.

    Also ever since they buffed a lot of the cards, Snecko is much weaker. It's a lot more viable to make decks that are heavy on 0 and 1 cost cards now, or that try and setup infinites, which in general craters how effective Snecko can be

    It's still an immensely powerful relic, but it's not the powerhouse that it was - Runic Pyramid had thoroughly dethroned it, at least in the A20 meta

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    asofyeunasofyeun Registered User regular
    Do you think the devs will ever update Slay the Spire anymore? It kinda seems like they're content with how it is now and have moved on.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    From talking with Casey, one of the devs of Megacrit, StS is basically done.

    One is that they're heads down on other projects - I really would have hoped we had heard somethin *on* those other projects by now, but also COVID.

    But the biggest issue facing them is localization. Any changes they'd make would have to be re-localized across an insane amount of languages, and they crowd sourced the localization efforts originally.

    It's possible, though unlikely, we get another numerical balance patch sometime down the road, though i'd be surprised. But some of the deeper stuff like Watcher's easy acess to Rushdown powered infinites, or just Watcher In General would require more design time and work, to say nothing of locilzation.

    I definitely don't think we're going to see a fifth or sixth class, or more relics, even though i think these would both be good things for the game.

    My dream is it turns out what they're working on is Slay the Spire 2, but we'll see. The game is still the absolute high water mark for cardgame rougelikes, and honestly, for a lot of Rougelikes in general.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    some recent wins, by the by:


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    zip3pdxzj2ul.png

    It's been a hot minute since i won as Silent, apperently

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Downfall is good enough that I just consider it an official expansion. It needs some of the rough edges sanded down and some art is still just recolors of existing card artwork but they’re slowly shifting it all to original art and doing periodic balance passes.

    The Automaton is just so fun to play.

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    Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    Playing Downfall through various updates and reworks has been fun to watch. Lots of game design lessons learned. Guardian used to have a beam synergy archetype and greater gem abuse, Champ used to have a third stance for card draw, and Hexaghost used to have twice as many cards with variations of Apply Soulburn. Lopping off mechanics and reworks slowly grinding off rough edges into a fairly smooth surface. Not mirror polished like vanilla but impressive anyway.

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    SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    It's worth noting that it's entirely possible, just incredibly rare to get a card reward on floor 1.

    Uh.... Otherwise, have fun. Elites are good, kill lots of elites.

    Focus on figuring out what your deck needs to beat the next floor. Card rewards are one of the best rewards possible in the game, but taking every card you see is one of the worst things you can do. These aren't as opposed as they sound

    Upgrades are good. Lots of upgrades can make for an easy win - I got mark of there bloom the other day and scored 10+ upgrades of it for a crushing victory on A20/heart

    You need less damage than you think to win, but you can't afford to dwardle either

    Elites are the best value/floor. Everything else is wildly subjective and depends on what you need at the time

    Removes are incredibly powerful due to Strike and Defend mostly being junk. This secretly makes Empty Cage, Astrolabe and Pandora's box some of the most powerful boss relics.

    Adding curses to your deck is almost never worth it, outside of events like Warped Tongs where you get a crazy pay off.

    Runic Pyramid is the single most broken relic in the game. Ironically it also makes one of the other most broken relics (Dead Branch) useless

    Amazing, thank you!

    The first time I got runic pyramid, I also had something that was constantly putting unplayable cards on my hand, it was certainly a terrible combination. But! This second time I got it, it was just as broken as you say, using the Ironclad and basing all of my damage off of my block level, I had something like 4 upgraded body slam cards and a dual wield card, so I'd end up with with 9 copies in my hand at some points.

    And yes, I think one of the most important things to learn is to not take a card every time they are presented to you, I had a game with something like 40+ cards and I noticed just how much RNG I had given myself to get a decent play. I've been trying to stay around 25-30, taking out as many basic strikes/blocks as possible when I've replaced them with better cards.

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    Skip is just a viable pick as a card option, and often times the correct choice

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    SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    Oh wow, I made it to the heart and it got me in like 3 turns.

    I guess it's the "Your build isn't as good as you think it is" check.

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Satsumomo wrote: »
    Oh wow, I made it to the heart and it got me in like 3 turns.

    I guess it's the "Your build isn't as good as you think it is" check.

    The heart requires you to be building for it throughout your run. You need specific tools to deal with that specific fight.

    1) You need to be dealing high DPS, every turn. The heart scales very quickly and if you don’t deal damage on pace it will just smite you.

    2) You need a way to mitigate the very high damage it does. Apparitions are a good example.

    3) It deals damage to you for every card you play, so you need some way of preventing that. The ideal is Torii and Tungsten Rod but that’s the dream, not always what you get.

    There are things I’ll pick up just to deal with the heart. Thorns potions (or the relic) are very good because once every 3 turns the heart does a x15 multiattack. If you can block the damage it does a lot of passive damage to the heart in return. That’s just one example. There are lots of tools you can use.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Satsumomo wrote: »
    Oh wow, I made it to the heart and it got me in like 3 turns.

    I guess it's the "Your build isn't as good as you think it is" check.

    The heart (and the spear and shield) before it are some very hard checks on deck building skill, yeah.

    Josh hit the nutshell of it.

    On a20, the Spear and Shield asks you to:

    Prepare on Turn 1. Survive having *two* burns put ONTOP of your deck for turn 2, where the Spear will then multi attack you for 40. THen turn 3 the shield will slam you for 50 something. (And on one of the proceeding turns, it will have debuffed your strength or focus by 1).

    Then the heart asks you to: Turn one is "Free" and you get to setup. Then the heart will inflict you with 2 turns of Weak, Frail and Vulnerable + put one of every status into your draw pile randomly. Then it will either multi attack you for 3x15 or hit you for 67 damage - and then do whatever it didnt do the next turn.

    Turn four, it'll buff itself, cleansing any negative strength, then gaining additional strength, then additionally gaining 2 artifact charges.

    Turn seven, it buffs itself further, pushing the beat of death up to 3 damage for ever card played, and gaining Deadly Wounds - which makes it so any health damage sticks a wound into your discard pile. (The Book of Stabbing has the same ability).

    Practically speaking, you really need to be killing the heart around turn 8 at the latest. It's definitely possible to go longer than that, but those are usually slow, dwardly silent decks who are abusing Apparition while the boss cheese graters itself to death. Notably, past turn... 14? the heart gets pissed off and starts attacking for more than 999 damage - Which given the block cap is 999, well, uh, good luck if you were relying on Frost Orbs or other block shenanigans.

    Also in practice, the worst turns are the first 3. If you can get through those, you can usually beat the heart down pretty quickly. Artifact potions are incredibly strong because they block the vuln for you. Tactical suicide via a Fairy Potion or Lizard Tail can be a surprisingly effective trick - just let the heart's big attack kill you, get back up and go back to it! (...Just make sure you dont have Mark of the Bloom).

    Summed up, this means your deck needs to:

    Do about 100 damage a turn on average (The heart has a damage cap of 200 per turn, so going beyond that is pointless, and rare is the deck that can actually 4tk the heart - only the most degenerate decks have enough gas to slam 200 damage every turn)
    Be able to survive 45/67 damage back to back
    have a way to cope with conditions
    Have a way to deal with status effects flooding your deck (Med-Kit becomes an incredible relic just because of the heart fight - removing Wound and Burn from the fight is *so good*)
    Have a way to deploy your scaling/whatever you need to win fast enough to do all of the above.

    There are a lot of ways to pull this off though. Anchor + Fossilized Helix can do wonders. Piercing Wail, Dark Shackles. Infinites for damage, catalyst, strength shennagins. The Ironclad often wins by getting Feed, upgrading it some way, somehow, and then Feeding as much as possible - when you walk into the heartfight with 150 hp, it gets a LOT harder to just loose. Runic pyramid becomes so good because you can just say, abuse Ironclad's ridiclous draw powers and cards like Bloodletting (Which is already better with Runic Pyramid!) to let you go "You hit me for 67? Cool, i play Impervious". Or so you can always cast Dual Wield targeting Reaper.

    Hell, i once beat the heart by making infinite 0 cost reapers backed up with Magic Flower and like... 2 points of strength, and just drain-tanked it to death. Stupid? You bet! Did it work? Also you bet.

    Actually ironclad runs where the post game shows that i went int othe heart fight at like 30 hp, took 200+ damage during the fight, and walked out at full hp are not exactly uncommon. Hungryclad is a silly fellow who doth hungry things

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    My favorite little known gimmick with the spear and shield is if you pick up Prismatic Shard as a non-Defect character (preferably in the Act 4 shop or as late as possible so your deck can already be solid), the game assumes you’re the Defect and the shield will debuff your focus instead of strength

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    My favorite little known gimmick with the spear and shield is if you pick up Prismatic Shard as a non-Defect character (preferably in the Act 4 shop or as late as possible so your deck can already be solid), the game assumes you’re the Defect and the shield will debuff your focus instead of strength

    That is so fucking bizzare

    Also Prismatic Shard remains my single least favorite shop relic.

    If i had any skill at programming, i'd make an event for it properly

    In my head, it's something like an Act 1 only event that gives you three choices:

    Choose 1 of 3 cards of common rarity, drawn from the pool of the other three characters
    Choose 1 of 3 cards of uncommon rarity, drawn from the pool of the other three characters, take damage
    Take the prismatic shard itself. Get the relic, with the twist that now when you're offered card choices, you see 4 choices and it's always 1 from each class (So if you finish an act, you see 1 rare from each)

    All of that would make it an actually fun event to encounter, and actually give you reasons to take any of the above, rather than it being an excellent way to loose runs as it currently is.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Local Woman Kills Gigantic Evil Organ by being Clumsy Ghost.

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    CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    How do you make her good? I only have three unlocks for her remaining and whether I load up on poison or deck shenanigans, I get flattened.

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    TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    Defensively, Wraith Form is the single most powerful way to not die for a few turns, Footwork with Blur and Dodge and Roll can be quite strong, After Image is great with shivs and/or discard shenanigans, and Piercing Wail, Malaise, and just cards that give Weak generally are great at reducing damage coming your way.

    For dealing damage, poison is very strong. It helps if you can also defend yourself well (to let the poison tick more) or a few Catalyst (to apply silly amounts of poison).

    Blade Dance is very strong for a damage common, and pairs well with Finisher, Terror, Accuracy, Thousand Cuts, and Envenom.

    With combinations of Acrobatics, Calculated Gamble, Tactician, and Reflex, you can draw and play or discard lots of cards per turn, which can let you draw the cards you need on the turns you need them, or just protect you and kill the enemies with 0 cost cards, relics, and powers.

    Well Laid Plans is powerful, especially with cards like Catalyst, Piercing Wail, Wraith Form, and Grand Finale.

    It's difficult for Adrenaline to be any less than excellent.

    Nightmare can let you do some very, very silly things.

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    SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    Oh, I thought Downfall was 1 new character, not 7. Time to spend more time here.

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    ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    I've been poking at Downfall. It's an interesting change of pace, but something about it isn't grabbing me. I do appreciate the novelty of how well integrated thematically some elements are, but you can only beat up the wheel goblin so many times ... :P
    It might be as simple as the volume of reading is quite a bit after you've sunk so much time into the game already, but I think there's also a level of "the mechanics for each of these characters is a bit much." Maybe Champ will pleasantly just hit things, but all three of the Act 1 bosses have core mechanisms you're forced to engage with and make me feel like I'm not playing to the same level of space that the original classes offered. That said, Afterlife is a really good, fun keyword. Hexaghost is the first one I've had any desire to play again largely because of that and managing your wheel is fun (though I wish it scaled some like the actual fight).

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Tarantio wrote: »
    Defensively, Wraith Form is the single most powerful way to not die for a few turns, Footwork with Blur and Dodge and Roll can be quite strong, After Image is great with shivs and/or discard shenanigans, and Piercing Wail, Malaise, and just cards that give Weak generally are great at reducing damage coming your way.

    For dealing damage, poison is very strong. It helps if you can also defend yourself well (to let the poison tick more) or a few Catalyst (to apply silly amounts of poison).

    Blade Dance is very strong for a damage common, and pairs well with Finisher, Terror, Accuracy, Thousand Cuts, and Envenom.

    With combinations of Acrobatics, Calculated Gamble, Tactician, and Reflex, you can draw and play or discard lots of cards per turn, which can let you draw the cards you need on the turns you need them, or just protect you and kill the enemies with 0 cost cards, relics, and powers.

    Well Laid Plans is powerful, especially with cards like Catalyst, Piercing Wail, Wraith Form, and Grand Finale.

    It's difficult for Adrenaline to be any less than excellent.

    Nightmare can let you do some very, very silly things.

    Nightmare -> Wraith Form doesn’t get the attention Corruption/Dead Branch does, but it is no less goofy

    Nightmare -> Nightmare -> Wraith Form is even goofier

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Also I think beginner players very commonly overlook cards that put a timer on your play because it makes them nervous

    “Wraith form gives me defense down! I can’t deal with that”

    There are lots of alternate ways to get block, like Ornamental Fan + Blade Dance, or After Image

    Another card I see people pass by a lot that is crazy good is Panic Button

    There are lots of ways to deal with the downside of block cards not working, and sometimes (like if you have pellets) you can just ignore the downsides completely for a nutso zero cost massive block

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I've been doing a run here and there in Across the Obelisk and I think I can safely, legitimately say I hate it.

    The game is balanced around the meta-progression system. What this means is that it is impossible to win on your first run. Or your second. Or your third. They have designed the game such that until you grind out perk levels on your characters, enemies will outscale you pretty much by the end of the first act. So the early game experience is basically bashing your head against a wall until you finally break through and get your characters to a power level high enough to deal with the enemies.

    It's terrible game design. I don't mind meta-progression in general. It's fine to award the player with permanent bonuses that persist between runs. But to make them mandatory to even have a chance of clearing the game gives me the impression that they don't value my time.

    On top of this existing grind, there are many characters you can unlock for future playthroughs. But they start at level 1 which means that unlocking new characters just makes your grind longer.

    Contrast this with Slay the Spire, where although there are cards and relics locked from the beginning, a few runs on each character will unlock them, and they are dispensed mainly as a way of getting you accustomed to the systems at play, rather than as a way to force you to fail over and over until the things you need to win become available to you. It's entirely possible (and even simple) to win the first run you ever make, especially if you have played before. When I got the iOS version of StS I blew through my opening runs with no difficulty despite content being locked, because the balance was still good.

    It's possible that there is an incredible game here once you get past an invisible perk level threshold where you can actually compete with the enemies, but until then it just feels bad.

    My other major gripe is the initiative system. Everybody rolls initiative on their turns, including enemies, and then each character takes a turn in order. Like in StS, all block disappears at the end of a round (after every character in play has had a turn). This means if you have a character with low initiative, block cards are worse than pointless. They can block but it will disappear immediately, and in fights with high enemy initiative they can simply wreck your lines before you even get a chance to apply block.

    My other other major gripe is how often enemies purge debuffs or are just straight up immune to them. In StS when you go up against the Automaton you know it's going to have a certain amount of artifact you need to break through before your poison can start stacking. Across the Obelisk just straight up goes "oh, you built your scout with a bleed deck? That's cute, here are some tree enemies that are immune to bleed". Which makes thematic sense, but if you are only seeing bleed cards...

    TL;DR: Slay the Spire is a perfectly balanced game and imitators need to do better

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    So.... I don't think Across the Obelisk is quite that unbalanced. The biggest thing with it is that you can get a big jump-start on any run by using x% of the cash from the previous run, which really helps. But this may just be a thing where you need more practice. I dunno about you, but it took me a bunch of tries in Slay the Spire or FTL or such before I could get a win, but I started a new account on my phone for StS recently and was able to win with new stuff a lot!

    And to be clear, initiative isn't rolled. It's a set value that you can modify with items, cards, statuses, etc.

    StS is perfectly balanced, though :lol:

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    I don't think STS is perfectly balanced, esp. at high ascension, but its pretty good for the most part

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I think even the devs said it's balanced around A10 or something, and A11-20 are there for people who just want the extra challenge

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    asofyeunasofyeun Registered User regular
    jokes on them, i can lose at A0 just fine!

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Also I think beginner players very commonly overlook cards that put a timer on your play because it makes them nervous

    “Wraith form gives me defense down! I can’t deal with that”

    There are lots of alternate ways to get block, like Ornamental Fan + Blade Dance, or After Image

    Another card I see people pass by a lot that is crazy good is Panic Button

    There are lots of ways to deal with the downside of block cards not working, and sometimes (like if you have pellets) you can just ignore the downsides completely for a nutso zero cost massive block

    This. The other thing is that a lot of what makes a deck successful is building for specific breakpoints.

    Newer players may not know or understand those breakpoints and so can overemphasize one aspect of their deck. It’s like trying to stack poison or shivs. Like. Once you have a bouncing flask and like. The poison trippler you’re basically good.

    Players will take suboptimal cards that expand their deck and make it less likely that they top deck their important cards.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    How do you make her good? I only have three unlocks for her remaining and whether I load up on poison or deck shenanigans, I get flattened.

    Take Acrobatics.

    Okay,. So somewhat more seriously: Silent has probably the worst act 1 of any character. There's a bunch of reasons for this, but it is what it is.

    Acrobatics alone makes Sneaky Strike and Evciserate a lot better. One or two copies early on really helps grease things and help you find your needed cards

    Getting Glass Dagger, then upgrading it asap can't also get you through act 1. In general act 1 for her is scrabbling for enough damage to murk elites.

    A pair of Deadly Poison+ can be that, or similar..

    She's in general the queen of defense. No other character can match how strong her defenses are, not without a lot of effort. Wraith Form has already been mentioned, but there's also Footwork, Tough Bandages, After Image... She has a lot of ways to splice defensive options together. Piercing Wail of probably the single strongest block common in the game

    Her other issue is she starts with five strikes and five defends. Makes removes at a premium for her

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Yeah Acrobatics is a good option in almost every Silent deck

    Calculated Gamble too, and depending on what you have going on it’s one of those cards that may actually be better unupgraded

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Eh, i'm a pretty big propoent of upgraded Calculated Gamble. Free card draw like that is always valuable, and having it upgraded turns on a lot of bullshit. It's not like say, Limit Break, where your deck might be aggressive enough on strength/other damage scaling that the one time strength boost and then being down a card is more beneficial.

    @Cantido or others interested - i'm pretty easy to convince to do some tutorial streams if you're interested in such - I'd play at A20 and explain what i was picking and why, as well as where runs went wrong when they inevitably crash and burn (Jorbs i am not)

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited January 2023
    Some other stuff that can help with silent is your whale bonus

    Max hp: Worthless, dosent really do anyhting to make your act 1 better. Good if you have an easy act 1, but not my taste at all.
    1 hp enemies: Tough early act (3 fights into a forced elite before a campfire), or solid chances of sniping an elite or double elites can make this a strong pick
    Common Card: As long as you hit an attack or deadly poison, this is pretty good.
    random rare: Eratic. Unload, Glass Knife, Malaise, Die Die Die, Wraith Form, After Image Adrenaline are all great hits that can make your act 1 better. Envenom if you can get an upgrade on it asap. Doppleganger is nice with an upgrade too. The rest are pretty eh.
    Transform: Transform a defend, not a strike. Very voltaile, but can hit very hard.
    Gold: Is there a shop within the first 3 floors on a good route? Very good, especially if you can get the 250g option. (Again, though, volatile - a shop can whiff hard. Generally you want a shop that's giving you a powerful attack and/or relic)
    Colorless card: Very hard for this to be good. Rare Colorless card is a *lot* better, simply for the chance at hitting Hand of Greed (an incredible act 1 rare) or Apoth, and there's a few other Rare colorless cards that are very strong (Violence, Mayhem, Secret Technique, Panache and Sadistic Nature - the latter two need some enabling, but can be very nasty on silent)
    Remove a card: Eh? Not bad, not good. Remove a defend. If it's two, remove a defend and a strike. Can make you very strong very fast if you hit a good damage uncommon in your first couple of floors (Predator, Bouncing Flask)
    Upgrade a card: Neturalize, i guess? This is probably the weakest option of them all for Silent - Bash+, Zap+ and Eruption+ are all fantastic cards early act 1, and Neutralize+ isnt exactly *bad*, but it's a much more long term play.

    Trade starting relic: Just dont. Of all the starting relics, Silent's is by far the strongest. 2 extra cards on your most important turn is crazy good.

    Penalties:

    Loosing max hp is fine.
    All gold hurts, but might be worth it if there's not an early store.
    Damage can be bad, depends on your act and what you're getting for it - I'm a lot more willing to pay damage for Transforms or Rare than i am for colorless.
    Curse: Better be a store early to remove/strong bonus to make this worth while since it's functionally -1 remove and silent's starter deck is already clogged (This option also sucks for Watcher)

    Also dont sleep on Sneaky Strike. it's weirdly good

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited January 2023
    JUst following up the above:

    Here's what the first half of my Silent's Act 1 looks like

    xb5l7loymfb7.png

    It's not great! The best path is probably the rightmost one - three fights and two question marks into a campfire, followed by two elites, a fight, shop and a campfire. Very high chance that i just fuckin' die, So maybe the left most - which is mostly the same, just with a question instead of a fight is better

    9gesyamj6sui.png

    Given that, we can scratch 100 gold off the list.

    Random rare is very voltaile here. So i'm going to take double transform and hope like hell...

    And immediately get Envenom and Eviciserate for my troubles. Okay. Okay, we can work with this. That's spicy.

    And then here's the deck as of the first campfire:

    z1hbgxqs9lsh.png


    This is going to be the make or break moment, and chances are still high we die.

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    Having dipped back into STS after taking a break, I wish they added in an option to squash the map into one screen. Just to make it easier to look at the pathing in one go.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited January 2023
    And the deck wiped out mid act 2. Snecko Eye was probably a mistake, but it was that or black star. I think if I'd been able to find Concentration earlier (Which is normally a dead card but becomes incredible in Unceasing Top deck, as long as you do *not* put Reflex or Tactician in it), i could have comfortably taken Black Star and probably won the run as long as i also found a After Image & Med Kit.

    Edit: Yeah, i think this run will be fine. Took common relic as the starting bonus, first shop gave me Malaise. Let me just hit a Pandora's at the boss and... yeeeeah.

    lc1rsz5wy1jx.png

    Edit: Immediately, next treasure chest conatins Ninja Scroll. Opening hand does a bunch of damage and draws 4 cards? Sure, why not.

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