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[Slay the Spire] Slay the Spire 2 confirmed for EA 2025!

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Duke 2.0 wrote: »
    It’s an aesthetic opinion I don’t get. Occasional out of place art like the double orb walker relic event sure, the way enemies are animated is a little strange, but from menus to cards to effects all look like a perfectly fine style. Something more refined in my mind would be something like Monster Train which I consider less aesthetically pleasing than StS for it.

    Monster Train's art is technically better than StS - in the sense that it's legitimately better-crafted - but it's also busy and visually dense. The StS stuff is the good kind of minimalist.

    90% of working game artists would've made every one of the characters way busier, just out of habit.

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    ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    If you refine and refine and refine art enough, you get AI art. I'll take StS style weird but unique art over that any day of the week.

    What the actual fuck are you taking about?

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    ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Like, the "general take" the thread is producing right now is incredibly weird. Somehow "polished" is mutually exclusive from "charming" or "has character" which is ... frankly dumb. Look at everything Supergiant makes and tell me it isn't excellent, polished and iconic of their games. StS can absolutely maintain the overall aesthetic that's been established while also improving it. This doesn't somehow become inherently worse or less indie in the process.

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    TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    The worst part about the art is the animations. Everything just vaguely squashes and stretches without any character or expressiveness. The designs are decent and I really like the card art, relic art, and potion art, but the main game is definitely just, like... functional. Doesn't look bad, which is nice (and which already sets it apart from lots of other games, including Monster Train, which is definitely going for something but which is way too busy and garish IMO) but absolutely not memorable in any way.

    StS 2 from what little we see at least has a more interesting style but only by a little bit and it looks like it's otherwise going to be pretty much the same. Totally tolerable but a bit of a letdown. I'll be interested to see if they do anything nice with animation this time.

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Huh. This is the first I remember anyone complaining about StS graphics, I thought everyone liked it :lol:

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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    The game also sold and reviewed incredibly well, so clearly it's not an issue most people have, or at least not enough to bother them

    I'm sure there are other card games with better animations, but they're not STS.

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    CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    Slay the Spire has art and graphics. The style generally matches itself and it is functional. I wouldn't hold it out as an example of a game that has great art/graphics, but I wouldn't say that it has bad art/graphics either. It firmly sits in the space of Indie, Good Enough arts and graphics.

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Huh. This is the first I remember anyone complaining about StS graphics, I thought everyone liked it :lol:

    You can like a thing and still critique it!

    I like the changes to Ironclad and Silent's looks in the 2 teaser because they're good updates that clarify the characters' roles a little. I still thought the simplicity of the originals was a plus.

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    WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    I wonder if they'll keep the "evil shapes" group of enemies. I've always been a fan

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Like, the "general take" the thread is producing right now is incredibly weird. Somehow "polished" is mutually exclusive from "charming" or "has character" which is ... frankly dumb. Look at everything Supergiant makes and tell me it isn't excellent, polished and iconic of their games. StS can absolutely maintain the overall aesthetic that's been established while also improving it. This doesn't somehow become inherently worse or less indie in the process.

    Polished isnt mutually exclusive. but many companies do polished without charming or has character, and lots of glossy high polish art tends to just... blend into itself.

    I'll take a hundred StS, Dicey Dungeons, Grindstones over stuff like Monster Train any day.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I don't mind StS's art, but it could definitely use some sprucing up and maybe some animations.

    The one thing that always bothered me was The Ironclad holding a big ass sword and never swinging it. :)

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    WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    I've always wondered if the characters were 3-D models or some kind of warped sprite. If they swap to something more traditional, I hope they have combat animations.

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    ThisThis Registered User regular
    edited May 14
    Like, the "general take" the thread is producing right now is incredibly weird. Somehow "polished" is mutually exclusive from "charming" or "has character" which is ... frankly dumb. Look at everything Supergiant makes and tell me it isn't excellent, polished and iconic of their games. StS can absolutely maintain the overall aesthetic that's been established while also improving it. This doesn't somehow become inherently worse or less indie in the process.

    Polished isnt mutually exclusive. but many companies do polished without charming or has character, and lots of glossy high polish art tends to just... blend into itself.

    I'll take a hundred StS, Dicey Dungeons, Grindstones over stuff like Monster Train any day.

    I'm not sure why the only two options are
    a) keep the art as it is and don't improve it
    b) make it worse

    This on
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    ThisThis Registered User regular
    edited May 14
    Anyway for me, a lot of the graphic design in the game feels like placeholder level of quality, the card frames/art in particular. It's very dull and cheap seeming. And then the characters kind of look like something a semi-talented middle-school student might draw, and as mentioned by others the animations are not great. I just find the game to be, well, ugly overall. I played it on Game Pass for a few days and I didn't feel good.

    I'm happy for the many people who don't feel that way.

    This on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    This wrote: »
    Like, the "general take" the thread is producing right now is incredibly weird. Somehow "polished" is mutually exclusive from "charming" or "has character" which is ... frankly dumb. Look at everything Supergiant makes and tell me it isn't excellent, polished and iconic of their games. StS can absolutely maintain the overall aesthetic that's been established while also improving it. This doesn't somehow become inherently worse or less indie in the process.

    Polished isnt mutually exclusive. but many companies do polished without charming or has character, and lots of glossy high polish art tends to just... blend into itself.

    I'll take a hundred StS, Dicey Dungeons, Grindstones over stuff like Monster Train any day.

    I'm not sure why the only two options are
    a) keep the art as it is and don't improve it
    b) make it worse

    You're twisting my words something fierce there.

    There are other options. Executing those options well it's incredibly difficult, not to mention expensive. Art of super giants quality doesn't just happen.

    StS is not a game that is made out broken by it's art. It's the high water mark for gameplay and game design in this genre. The art is well, what the art is. Functional and immensely readable, but crude. Which is fine, because functional and immensely readable are what's important in this game.

    Would it be nicer to have richer art? Sure would. But it's way, way down on the scale in importance for what StS needs to do to do well

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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    I also disagree with the notion that Monster Train has better art because it has more of it

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    akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    I’ll throw in as someone who initially passed on StS because the art was so… spare. The character and monster designs are cool, but the cards themselves need a little something more.

    Honestly, it could be improved by just scaling everyone up slightly to use more of the screen space and see what detail there is more clearly.

    There’s nothing inherently wrong with a clean, simplistic character model. The different classes are distinct and pretty iconic by this point, and it def helps keep the playing field from getting too busy.

    Monster Train went a little too far the other way, but I do love some of the stuff there, like the lil sprite guys that get eaten. Most of the candle-folk are cool also.

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    ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    I also disagree with the notion that Monster Train has better art because it has more of it
    Did anybody ever say this? There's been an awful lot of random strawmaning here.

    This wrote: »
    Like, the "general take" the thread is producing right now is incredibly weird. Somehow "polished" is mutually exclusive from "charming" or "has character" which is ... frankly dumb. Look at everything Supergiant makes and tell me it isn't excellent, polished and iconic of their games. StS can absolutely maintain the overall aesthetic that's been established while also improving it. This doesn't somehow become inherently worse or less indie in the process.

    Polished isnt mutually exclusive. but many companies do polished without charming or has character, and lots of glossy high polish art tends to just... blend into itself.

    I'll take a hundred StS, Dicey Dungeons, Grindstones over stuff like Monster Train any day.

    I'm not sure why the only two options are
    a) keep the art as it is and don't improve it
    b) make it worse

    You're twisting my words something fierce there.

    There are other options. Executing those options well it's incredibly difficult, not to mention expensive. Art of super giants quality doesn't just happen.

    StS is not a game that is made out broken by it's art. It's the high water mark for gameplay and game design in this genre. The art is well, what the art is. Functional and immensely readable, but crude. Which is fine, because functional and immensely readable are what's important in this game.

    Would it be nicer to have richer art? Sure would. But it's way, way down on the scale in importance for what StS needs to do to do well
    I don't think they are twisting as much as you think, and I wouldn't single you out here. Part of my last response is because most of the conversation has been treating it as a given that any change would be worse. There's simply no entertaining that it could be improved, only that it's charming and better than other, worse visuals found in other games.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Improved is such a nebulous word though.

    On a technical level, yes, StS has crude use of perspective and proportion (the ironclad campfire graphic is fucking dire). There's absolutely technical improvements that could be made.

    But it's also just not that simple with art. A lot of StS is actually very strong in a technical level, use of colour especially. StS2 is looking to have even stronger use of colour

    Perhaps a better way to put is if you want to argue for improvement, improvement how? In what sense? Art is incredibly subjective - what's beautiful to me may be ugly to you. These are emotive topics, not logical proofs. 2+2 = banana, as it were

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    WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    Even so much as an outline will change how a lot of the things in the game are read.

    The original response you made, Arctic, said refined. I'm still unsure what that means other than it doesn't hit the mark for you.

    I personally think there's a lot of opportunity for expansion in animation and something more 3D, but a large part of the game's visual attraction to me is that it reminds me of an automated tabletop game.

    I have a buddy who doesn't want them to change a thing with the art. He says it's not because his computer is going on 14 years old, but the jury is still out on that one.

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    akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    Friends with potato computers are really harshing my gaming buzz. I have two friends who would absolutely play more stuff with us if their computers could handle them. One legitimately can't afford to upgrade, he gets a pass. The other just can't be arsed to do anything but complain about it, and vaguely say "next paycheck, for sure!" (he could afford to do it at any time)

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    EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    It would be cool for cards used to clear Asc 10 unlocked the ability to apply a foil effect to them.

    Once I clear Asc 20 allow me to unlock a foil graphic for the campfire :smiley:

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    StS meets claw games? What could go wrong?

    https://youtu.be/gBz5NZfXCw4?feature=shared

    I have no idea if this game is any good, but the concept is awesome!

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    ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Oh, before I forget this forever, somehow the cosmic timeline is an eerie beast:

    At the end of our game night Tuesday when we're just chatting, I mention the recent SU&SD review about StS's board game implementation. My lead in on this was that it's very hard for me to know what to think of Tom's remarks when he also suggests "having hundreds of hours in the game" and "only being at ascension 12" as it's a decent indication that Tom is not actually good at StS.
    After a bit of discussion the conversation pivots to one of my friends mentioning that he started playing StS recently. Without prompting he says, "I tried it years ago and I couldn't stick with it. The art drove me away." To which my other friend who has not played the game says, "Yeah, I never tried it because it didn't look like a finished game."

    Myself and the other person who has sunk significant time into the game were both like, "you just stop looking at it at some point."

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Aside from the animations being very basic o like the art. Actually kinda surprised so many people don't

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    VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular

    Myself and the other person who has sunk significant time into the game were both like, "you just stop looking at it at some point."

    My attention focuses on pretty much everything but the actual characters.

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I play very, very few AAA games, few of the popular games, not a lot of modern games. That may be why the art never stuck out to me as noteworthy? It seemed nice, I liked it enough, that's about it. Art is rarely a big priority for me anyways, but never once would I have thought the game looked "unfinished."

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    CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    Yeah, the art was always functional to me and generally inoffensive. It didn't actively get in my way of playing the game and was mostly all the same style, so I figured it was a stylistic choice for a developer without a super talented artist on staff or a limited art budget. Not all indies can be Supergiant Games.

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    ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    The point is more that my microcosm of a board game group does not likely consist entirely of outliers, and the people who were most put off by the art are the most casual video game players. I don't know that our community of largely hardcore StS nerds is a good representative of the norm.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    The point is more that my microcosm of a board game group does not likely consist entirely of outliers, and the people who were most put off by the art are the most casual video game players. I don't know that our community of largely hardcore StS nerds is a good representative of the norm.

    What do you mean, only 6.8% of players have beaten A20! and only 15% of players have beaten a10! Me and my 6k hours are clearly the average here!

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    ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Jokes aside, I'm honestly shocked A10 only has a 15% unlock rate. I would love to see stats about the player falloff curve ...
    I know one of my friends with 500 hours in the game pretty much only played it when he was high and just wanted to sling some cards. I don't know if he ever got to A5. <_<

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Jokes aside, I'm honestly shocked A10 only has a 15% unlock rate. I would love to see stats about the player falloff curve ...
    I know one of my friends with 500 hours in the game pretty much only played it when he was high and just wanted to sling some cards. I don't know if he ever got to A5. <_<

    As much as I love the game, Slay the Spire is very hard to learn.

    It's deceptively simple on the surface, but there's at least three distinct yet interlinked skillets to master (Drafting, Routing, and Playing). There's not elements of risk evaluation, which humans are notoriously bad at.

    And the fact that A10 is easier than AO, or that higher level ascensions actually make some enemies more predictable (Gremlin Nob always goes Buff, Vuln, Big hit, Big hit, repeat from vulnerable at high asc, he can just start swinging on low as ) isn't communicated.

    There's a lot of false perceptions too, like Awoken One being a hard counter to powers, or Time Eater hard countering spam decks. Which is more a product of players failing to identify what those bosses are doing correctly (both of them do the same thing, punish low impact card plays).Y all of which speaks to the average skill level

    And for many people they don't want to chase the difficulty. I'm so about the challenge, but I understand why folks are not. They're wrong, obviously=p, but I understand

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    ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    I agree with all of that, but I'm still inclined to believe that the early game is easier than you're making it out to be. I remember my very first run in the game I made it to and almost beat Awoken One. I remember hitting walls with certain characters, but I don't recall any of those being before A10 ...
    Like, statistically even if people are playing kinda bad and going very hard into one particular part of the character's kit, they should win the odd run.

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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    Regular STS isn't a cake walk for me and never has been, so I have no urge to play on Ascension

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    VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    Regular STS isn't a cake walk for me and never has been, so I have no urge to play on Ascension

    I play on A1 just for the added elites. I have cleared A10 with everyone (not necessarily with a Heart kill) but have no desire to grind further.

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    bloodatonementbloodatonement Registered User regular
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    Regular STS isn't a cake walk for me and never has been, so I have no urge to play on Ascension

    I play on A1 just for the added elites. I have cleared A10 with everyone (not necessarily with a Heart kill) but have no desire to grind further.

    Extra relics can really make things more manageable.

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    TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    I've beaten A20 with each character a few times but I generally play on A15, which feels much more reasonable.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Anything that's not A20 just feels boring to me these days. I don't try hard though, and wipe out plenty of runs. Hells, I'll even go X run is winnable, but it's going to require way more mental effort than I feel like spending and quit it if needed.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I've done A20 with all 4 characters and beaten the Heart, but A10 is my comfort zone.

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Incredibly silly fight today. Act 1, A18, I'm playing as the Silent and have shuriken Infinite Blades and Blade Dance. First elite is the Lagavulin. The fight very nearly ended in a draw- I was adding Dex faster than it could remove it, but also 0 damage shivs. Fortunately, damage pots to the rescue :D

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