[Book]: Rhymes With

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  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    I enjoyed Memory Called Empire but I had one problem that kept gnawing at me through the latter half of the book.

    (Latter half of book spoilers)
    So Yskander's whole thing was that he turned traitor by offering up the Imago technology to the Empire, which he could do because the Imago implants are super secret and it's a station-federal crime to expose them.

    ...Except that literally everyone on the station knows about the implants and imago lines and their pop culture media is full of references to it.

    I get that the Empire is supposed to not give a shit about anyone or anything outside of its borders but it seems impossible that they didn't already know about the machines. Even if the station didn't allow the export of any of their media, presumably there is an Imperial Ambassador on the station. Plus the apparently copious number of stationers who become imperial citizens.

    And then, whether the Emperor already knew aout the machines or learned about the tech from Yskander, why bother with the secrecy? Especially once his nominal source for an imago machine was dead? He could have either made a formal offer to the station to trade imago tech for a formal agreement to not conquer them. Or just have Yskander's body vanished, this implant removed, and then dump some of the apparently nigh-bottomless imperial coffers dumped into reverse engineering it. The imperial public would have been offended so maybe keep it kinda secret but there was no obvious reason for him to need to talk Mahit into giving it to him in a back-room deal.

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    I enjoyed Memory Called Empire but I had one problem that kept gnawing at me through the latter half of the book.

    (Latter half of book spoilers)
    So Yskander's whole thing was that he turned traitor by offering up the Imago technology to the Empire, which he could do because the Imago implants are super secret and it's a station-federal crime to expose them.

    ...Except that literally everyone on the station knows about the implants and imago lines and their pop culture media is full of references to it.

    I get that the Empire is supposed to not give a shit about anyone or anything outside of its borders but it seems impossible that they didn't already know about the machines. Even if the station didn't allow the export of any of their media, presumably there is an Imperial Ambassador on the station. Plus the apparently copious number of stationers who become imperial citizens.

    And then, whether the Emperor already knew aout the machines or learned about the tech from Yskander, why bother with the secrecy? Especially once his nominal source for an imago machine was dead? He could have either made a formal offer to the station to trade imago tech for a formal agreement to not conquer them. Or just have Yskander's body vanished, this implant removed, and then dump some of the apparently nigh-bottomless imperial coffers dumped into reverse engineering it. The imperial public would have been offended so maybe keep it kinda secret but there was no obvious reason for him to need to talk Mahit into giving it to him in a back-room deal.

    It's a flaw obviously, but I think there's good in universe explanations for why
    the emperor is sickly and not gonna last long, they don't have time to re-engineer the tech. Lsal has a huge support network built up around the tech, they can't just recreate it willy nilly. Plus they want to keep it on the down-low, so they can hardly launch a major research project anyway.

    And the empire doesn't keep an ambassador at lsal station. Ambassadors show up at the Capitol to receive culturing and demonstrate proper respect, the relationship doesn't go the other way.

    It's true that lsal openly discusses their imago tech in their own culture, but they're A - very small, there's plenty of other border states to pay attention to
    B - very far away, and this seems like very much a "space is ridiculously huge" sort of galaxy.
    C - Lsal really don't seem to do any kind of cultural exports at all, and one of the chapter notes mentions they even do stuff like recycling the plastic flimsies that magazines are printed on.
    D - nobody in the empire thinks there's anything of worth to find there in the first place. Three Seagrass is like the most enthusiastic xenophile in the capitol and not even she speaks a word of any other languages. Not even military intelligence cares about Lsal - if they choose to invade then they'll win easily, everyone knows it.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    credeikichrono_traveller
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    edited August 20
    200 pages in I’ve got suspicions about one or two things in Harrow and I feel like i should be taking copious notes

    These questions are not for answering, just for posterity. Please do not respond.
    -Is there any significance to which skull adorns which chapters. I can not yet discern a pattern.
    -Why does Ortus The First’s name matter? Why does Mercy say “who?” when Harrow mentions him? (I begin to suspect his true name may be Gideon and this is part of Harrow’s “work“)
    -why does Ortus 1st hate her? (Suspect we will find out)
    -Why does the Emperor’s name and title keep changing? So far he has been called John, God, Emperor, Kindly Prince, and finally Teacher (which is doubly confusing because of the character by this name in Gideon, who I do not believe was him).
    -Who is the Sleeper? Gideon? Coronabeth? Someone else?

    Why does Mercy keep vastly underestimating Harrows age

    knitdan on
    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    On the one hand, I already bought these once as e-books. On the other hand, I forgot what the question was.

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    Echo wrote: »
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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    I started rereading A Memory Called Empire, and gosh I really do just love this book. Like it is very space opera, the protagonist is from a little space station-nation on the edge of a bigass galactic empire, but instead of doing that typical vaguely fascist space opera thing where only the military can ever deal with anything, it's almost all just like, talking about cultural subtleties, an ambassador trying to seamlessly fit into a very foreign culture. And there's this complex balance between like, she's spent a decade+ learning the language and culture, so obviously she has a love and passion for this place, and her job as an ambassador is to bridge the divide between their two cultures for smooth communications, and at the same time it's also her job to preserve her own people's independence, both geographically and also keeping them from being washed away by the metropole's overwhelming and constant soft power flow of dramas and literature and poetry and art.

    Like I've compared to to Baru Cormorant before, and I'm not hating on Baru Cormorant by any means, but its concept of empire is a bit of a cardboard cutout, a hodgepodge of horrible imperialist policies from various empires to form a whole that is, at all times, morally odious but also distantly Over There, so that the book can talk about how Baru deals with her own learned self-hatred. Memory Called Empire is a bit less openly political (though its definitely still has politics) but it's also a bit of a wiser, more complex look at why someone would fall for a culture that is gradually but inexorably erasing their own.

    Anyway the book is also frequently quite funny, but often in that way of like a joke in a foreign language that requires copious translator's notes is. This scene, where Mahit the ambassador is settling into her first day of work - catching up on diplomatic mail - with her cultural attache, the imperial citizen Mahit Seagrass, I find just super charming. It's from quite early in the book, not spoilery:
    [...] Three Seagrass handed her the next infofiche stick, which turned out to be a thoroughly distracting mess concerning import fees on a shipping manifest that would have taken half an hour to sort out had it been answered when it was originally asked, back when Yskandr [the previous ambassador] had been alive. It took nearly three times that long for Mahit to solve, considering one of the parties had left the planet - that was the stationer - and another had married into citizenship and changed his name during the lag time. Mahit made Three Seagrass hunt down the new-made Teixcalaanlitzlim under his new name and issue him a formal summons to the Judicial Department of Interstellar Trade Licensing.
    "Just make sure he shows up to pay the import fees on the cargo he bought from one of my station's citizens, whatever his name is," Mahit told her.
    The name the man had chosen, it turned out, was Thirty-Six All-Terrain Tundra Vehicle, a revelation that produced in both Mahit and Three Seagrass a kind of stunned silence.
    "No one would actually name a child that," Three Seagrass complained after a moment. "He has no taste. Even if his parent or his creche was from a low-temperature planet with a lot of tundra in need of all-terrain vehicles."
    Mahit wrinkled her eyebrows in sudden puzzlement, remembering - vividly - the part of her early language training on Lsel when her entire class had been encouraged to make up Teixcalaanli names to call themselves while they were learning to speak. She's picked Nine Orchid, because the heroine of her then-favorite Teixcalaanli novel, about the adventures of the crechemate of the future Emperor Twelve Solar-Flare, had been called Five Orchid. It had felt very Teixcalaanli, picking a name based on one's favorite book. She'd thought the names the other children had chosen were much less successful, at the time, and had felt very superior. Now, in the center of Teixcalaanli space, the entire episode seemed not only appropriative but absurd. Nevertheless, she asked Three Seagrass, "Just how do you Teixcalaanlitzlim name yourselves?"
    "Numbers are for luck, or the qualities you want your child to have, or fashion. 'Three' is perennially popular, all the low numbers are; Threes are supposed to be stable and innovative, like a triangle. Doesn't fall over, can reach pinnacles of thought, that sort of thing. This person picking 'Thirty-Six' is just trying to look new-money City-dweller, it's a little silly but not that bad. The bad part is "All-Terrain Tundra Vehicle.' I mean. Blood and sunlight, it's technically permissible, that's an inanimate object or a piece of architecture, but it's so ... nice names are plants and flowers and natural phenomena. And not so many syllables."
    This was the most animated Mahit had seen Three Seagrass be so far, and it was really making it difficult for Mahit not to like her. She was funny. Thirty-Six All-Terrain Tundra Vehicle was funnier.
    "When I was learning the language," she said, deciding all at once to share, to offer something back for this little bit of cultural exchange - if they were going to work together they should work together - "we had to pretend to have Teixcalaanli-style names, and one of my classmates - the kind of person who scores perfectly on exams and has a terrible accent - called himself 2e Asteroid. The irrational number. He thought he was being clever."
    Three Seagrass contemplated this, and then snickered. "He was," she said. "That's hilarious."
    "Really?"
    "Enormously. It's like turning your whole persona into a self-deprecating joke. I'd buy a novel written by a Two-E Asteroid, it'd probably be satire."
    Mahit laughed. "The person in question wasn't subtle enough for satire," she said. "He was a dreadful classmate."
    "He sounds it," Three Seagrass agreed, "but he's accidentally subtle, which is even better."

    @Kana I literally wrote out that exact exchange and posted it on my blog as an example of why I love this book (I'm about 2/3 of the way through right now)

    I love it :D:D:D

    I also really wonder about the author's history with these feelings. She's a scholar of the Byzantine empire and has lived in Turkey, according to her back page, so I wonder if she went to Turkey and was like, I've been preparing my whole life for this, and then was like, oh shit, actually I am still so much on the outside, I mean I get the culture and the language and the history but also there is this sense in which I do not and I never will and aaaaaaa

    I have had really strong feelings like this--I mean I am nowhere near as good a slavicist as Mahit is a Teixcalaan expert but--there is the core of something very similar and it resonates so strongly.

    Of course there are a lot of other feelings and interesting elements of this book but the whole concept of being a fan of a culture and wanting and not wanting/being able or not able to be part of it is what really stands out to me.

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  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Read theough the night. Finished Harrow

    Holy fuck Holy fuck Holy fuck

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
    DevoutlyApatheticKanaA Dabble Of TheloniusEchoBrodyAioua
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Read theough the night. Finished Harrow

    Holy fuck Holy fuck Holy fuck

    Book starts a little slow but when it hits the gas it doesn't ever let up.

    knitdanKanaMoridin889Echo
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Read theough the night. Finished Harrow

    Holy fuck Holy fuck Holy fuck

    No Shit right? The day after I finished Harrow, I went back and re-read the last 25% or so to get it to really sink in.

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  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    I would have never guessed that I’d be cheering at

    Late Harrow Spoilers
    Friendly ghost summons his hero through the power of fanfiction. Said hero defeats unfriendly ghost, then goes off to help fight a Lovecraftian nightmare spawned by a murdered planet

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
    webguy20KanaSo It GoesBrodySummaryJudgment
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    I would have never guessed that I’d be cheering at

    Late Harrow Spoilers
    Friendly ghost summons his hero through the power of fanfiction. Said hero defeats unfriendly ghost, then goes off to help fight a Lovecraftian nightmare spawned by a murdered planet
    Them all deciding to just go off and fight the giant murder beast as an aside is awesome.

    Also the climax of the book have them maybe exploding the Sun, twice, and that is just a side effect!

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    Echowebguy20knitdanAntoshka
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    At this point I'm keeping this book unread just to see what Goodreads recommends based on it.

    zrcfefvbg2u7.png

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
    Brodychrono_traveller
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Lightbringer series finished. Boy it's been a while since I read the Bible.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited August 23
    I finished Gideon the Ninth last night. That whole last section was pure adrenaline it was very good and was still funny in ways that I felt fit the build up

    low spoils mostly just 2 great bits from the end sections
    I loved how the like intricate descriptions of rapier fighting changed as soon as Gideon brought her broadsword to a fight and that moment of realizing how different it was where it describes the rapier attack in the usual style and gideon "smacks the stupid fucking thing away"

    and of course "we do bones, motherfucker" is pure action movie finale.

    ugh I want to read Harrow right now though. This was supposed to be my taking a break from my other reads book, not a thing that I needed more of immediately!

    initiatefailure on
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  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited August 23
    I finished Gideon the Ninth last night. That whole last section was pure adrenaline it was very good and was still funny in ways that I felt fit the build up

    low spoils mostly just 2 great bits from the end sections
    I loved how the like intricate descriptions of rapier fighting changed as soon as Gideon brought her broadsword to a fight and that moment of realizing how different it was where it describes the rapier attack in the usual style and gideon "smacks the stupid fucking thing away"

    and of course "we do bones, motherfucker" is pure action movie finale.

    ugh I want to read Harrow right now though. This was supposed to be my taking a break from my other reads book, not a thing that I needed more of immediately!

    The best time to read Harrow is right after Gideon. The book has a fair amount of call backs and having Gideon fresh in the mind will be an immense help.

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  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    edited August 24
    I finally broke down and bought Gideon(already read, but wanted to be fresh)/Harrow, since who knows when the library will have it in. I love the language so much.

    Brody on
    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
    webguy20
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I started reading Gideon and, uh

    I don't really like it? The language of it feels really incongruous.

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    I started reading Gideon and, uh

    I don't really like it? The language of it feels really incongruous.
    I have it on audiobook and I stopped after two chapters. I am going to try again. The language of it drives me crazy too but I have weird pet peeves about narrator style and the like.

    no no no no noo no no no no no
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    The second book in the series makes it clear that Gideon's diction is not only done for artistic effect.
    "Why do some of these characters sound like they come from the early 21st century?", "Just who is the Immortal Emperor?" and "What's going on with this setting?" are feeling like connected mysteries.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Yeah I dunno if I care to stick around to fund out tbh. Some of the setting seems cool but I am well past enjoying something for the "world building" personally.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    I occasionally get curious what Clive Barker is doing other than writing the conclusion to any of the multiple series he has yet to finish so I googled him. It’s been a while since I checked what he’s up to and holy cats he looks incredibly unwell.

    I know he had health issues after a botched dental procedure a few years ago but he looks like that’s only the half of it. His ex husband alleges all sorts of things as well, but judging from those pictures I think I will have to give up on the hope of him finishing any of those stories.

    It feels like just when he should have been entering an imperial phase after Imajica he got sidetracked with a slew of side projects and movie deals that didn’t quite come off, and now it’s twenty five years later and it’s just too late.

  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Yeah I dunno if I care to stick around to fund out tbh. Some of the setting seems cool but I am well past enjoying something for the "world building" personally.

    Yea you either love Gideon and her deal or you don’t. I’ve never seen anyone middling about that book. Which is fine of course!

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Yeah I dunno if I care to stick around to fund out tbh. Some of the setting seems cool but I am well past enjoying something for the "world building" personally.

    Yea you either love Gideon and her deal or you don’t. I’ve never seen anyone middling about that book. Which is fine of course!

    It's a super fun book! I'm just chiming in for people who would be having fun except for the oddness of the language, since the second book certainly shows that this is a stylistic choice and not a weakness of the author.

  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Yeah, I got a mild shock at the difference in tone. They're definitely written in the tone of the respective protagonists.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
    Kana
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    I understand that it's kind of hard to discuss around personal reactions to a thing like tone, but I'm not really sure I get it. I think in that whole book, there were 2 lines that stood out to me as feeling a too much like a modern meme and beyond just who the character of Gideon is... and the Character of Gideon is pretty much exactly who I'd expert her to be from what she shows us.

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  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    At this point I'm keeping this book unread just to see what Goodreads recommends based on it.

    zrcfefvbg2u7.png

    little side project now that he's done singing for Journey?

    Just catch a glance of what could have done this
    Something 'bout how he walks reminds you of someone
    You look and see a gun, a man with no face, a golden halo that could be the sun
    Maguano
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I think that for me it stood out a bit, and I am not hugely enjoying it anyway tbh, I wouldn't want to say that it was so much an accusation of poor writing as... not resonating with my preferences? I dunno. It sounds pretty fan-fictiony at times, although most of the prose is pretty good. But largely I think it is relying on saying "isn't the setting cool?" and that doesn't do it for me although it is totally an element of the genre that popular and such so, I can't even really criticise that either.

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  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    There is a Reason Gideon talks like she does. It's more than just rebellious teen stuck in a nihilist necro convent for their lives too. No one else speaks that way there.

    Reason (Legit big Harrow the 9th end of book spoilers)
    She has been haunted by the ghost of her mother/progenitor for her whole life.

    How
    Revenants need physical anchors. First in her mothers bones, which she was the only one to visit, then in her sword that she trained with constantly, then in her very own body which led to issues in the second book. Mommy dearest swapped over to another corpse for a while, but it wasn't ideal

  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    It does seem like everyone bounces off it as an audiobook too.

    Dunno if the language or the number of characters or what.

  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    edited August 24
    Solar wrote: »
    Yeah I dunno if I care to stick around to fund out tbh. Some of the setting seems cool but I am well past enjoying something for the "world building" personally.

    It's definitely not a book about worldbuilding--I mean some people get into the world of it, but the author makes the protagonist a meathead so that we the readers aren't afflicted by the necromancy nerdery or setting details, because Gideon doesn't care. It's a book about character and character interaction--there's a bunch of friendships and romances and alliances and whatnot, and that's the core of it. It's the only book I've ever read that has what, 18 or so people, and you the reader actually have a good sense of every single character as a distinct person with feelings and needs and a distinct way about them. Also a book about hitting skeletons with swords, and a book about a locked house mystery/whodunit.

    It is written in an aggressively casual way with modern diction. If it bothers you that someone from a fantasy/scifi setting would speak in modern english instead of in english that has been made to be a bit more formal or less idiomatic in order to reflect that it's some other language in translation, or that the people are old timey/futuristic, this is not a book you'll enjoy.

    Even though I don't read fanfiction, there is something about it that is fanfictiony, as far as I can tell, and that makes me like it more but I understand how other people would like it less.

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    I haven't read harrow yet (soon!) but I think that even if the modern, casual tone weren't setting-relevant, it's a completely legit choice. No one writes in period-independent prose, as much as they might hope to aim for something era-neutral. It bothers me more when people choose to have their medieval fantasy kings and queens, who are speaking elvish anyway and we're just reading the english rendition of it, speak in a modern person's vague attempt at early modern english. It just ends up making the dialogue feel less fluid and fluent.

    Also I just finished A Memory Called Empire and it was just amazing; very engaging throughout, and with a focus on themes and events that you don't often see in the foreground in scifi.

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited August 24
    credeiki wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Yeah I dunno if I care to stick around to fund out tbh. Some of the setting seems cool but I am well past enjoying something for the "world building" personally.

    It's definitely not a book about worldbuilding--I mean some people get into the world of it, but the author makes the protagonist a meathead so that we the readers aren't afflicted by the necromancy nerdery or setting details, because Gideon doesn't care. It's a book about character and character interaction--there's a bunch of friendships and romances and alliances and whatnot, and that's the core of it. It's the only book I've ever read that has what, 18 or so people, and you the reader actually have a good sense of every single character as a distinct person with feelings and needs and a distinct way about them. Also a book about hitting skeletons with swords, and a book about a locked house mystery/whodunit.

    It is written in an aggressively casual way with modern diction. If it bothers you that someone from a fantasy/scifi setting would speak in modern english instead of in english that has been made to be a bit more formal or less idiomatic in order to reflect that it's some other language in translation, or that the people are old timey/futuristic, this is not a book you'll enjoy.

    Even though I don't read fanfiction, there is something about it that is fanfictiony, as far as I can tell, and that makes me like it more but I understand how other people would like it less.

    It's not a huge deal, I guess it just stands out? It does have a fan-fictiony vibe but that is I think largely because of the use of modern, and very American to my ears (which is odd because isn't the author a Kiwi?), diction (I used to read a lot of fanfiction and it shares that I think).

    Solar on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    The writer came out of Fanfic so the tone is not an accident

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    I started reading Gideon and, uh

    I don't really like it? The language of it feels really incongruous.
    I have it on audiobook and I stopped after two chapters. I am going to try again. The language of it drives me crazy too but I have weird pet peeves about narrator style and the like.

    I listened to the whole thing. It’s really confusing given there’s are 20+ characters with complicated names, often accompanied with nicknames or titles used by others, and only one narrator.

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud
  • AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I started reading Gideon and, uh

    I don't really like it? The language of it feels really incongruous.
    I have it on audiobook and I stopped after two chapters. I am going to try again. The language of it drives me crazy too but I have weird pet peeves about narrator style and the like.

    I listened to the whole thing. It’s really confusing given there’s are 20+ characters with complicated names, often accompanied with nicknames or titles used by others, and only one narrator.

    Isn't this normal? I mean, when reading the book, there is also only one narrator

    n57PM0C.jpg
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    edited August 25
    Antoshka wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I started reading Gideon and, uh

    I don't really like it? The language of it feels really incongruous.
    I have it on audiobook and I stopped after two chapters. I am going to try again. The language of it drives me crazy too but I have weird pet peeves about narrator style and the like.

    I listened to the whole thing. It’s really confusing given there’s are 20+ characters with complicated names, often accompanied with nicknames or titles used by others, and only one narrator.

    Isn't this normal? I mean, when reading the book, there is also only one narrator

    It's a lot easier for me to follow a conversational thread in a written book than speaking. Admittedly it's probably different for everyone, but with written books I have multiple voices in my head and can more easily remember names if I can spend a moment on them. The spoken narration only has the one voice, though she does her best to make differences, and I only get a second to focus on a name before the story moves on. Add on that Gideon has a ton of moving parts and at least for me it gets confusing fast.

    I generally prefer audio books but written lend themselves better to some stories, and Gideon is definitely one of those in my opinion. It's also why I'm reading The Tyrant Baru Cormorant on my kindle instead of listening to it.

    Quid on
    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloudwebguy20tynic
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    The writer came out of Fanfic so the tone is not an accident

    Also (Harrow Late Book Non-Plot Spoiler):
    It is heavily suggested that the entire culture was created whole-cloth by the Immortal God Emperor, who is very likely a guy from our time period named John who was the sole survivor of a nuclear war. Considering the whole "houses and swords" nature of the civilization he created and some of the things he says, it is probably correct that he was at least a bit of a nerd.

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Antoshka wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I started reading Gideon and, uh

    I don't really like it? The language of it feels really incongruous.
    I have it on audiobook and I stopped after two chapters. I am going to try again. The language of it drives me crazy too but I have weird pet peeves about narrator style and the like.

    I listened to the whole thing. It’s really confusing given there’s are 20+ characters with complicated names, often accompanied with nicknames or titles used by others, and only one narrator.

    Isn't this normal? I mean, when reading the book, there is also only one narrator

    It's a lot easier for me to follow a conversational thread in a written book than speaking. Admittedly it's probably different for everyone, but with written books I have multiple voices in my head and can more easily remember names if I can spend a moment on them. The spoken narration only has the one voice, though she does her best to make differences, and I only get a second to focus on a name before the story moves on. Add on that Gideon has a ton of moving parts and at least for me it gets confusing fast.

    I generally prefer audio books but written lend themselves better to some stories, and Gideon is definitely one of those in my opinion. It's also why I'm The Tyrant Baru Cormorant on my kindle instead of listening to it.
    Yeah Baru on audiobook is really challenging as well. I had to relisten several times and will need to relisten to both book 1 and 2 before getting to book 3.

    no no no no noo no no no no no
  • AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    edited August 24
    Quid wrote: »
    Antoshka wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I started reading Gideon and, uh

    I don't really like it? The language of it feels really incongruous.
    I have it on audiobook and I stopped after two chapters. I am going to try again. The language of it drives me crazy too but I have weird pet peeves about narrator style and the like.

    I listened to the whole thing. It’s really confusing given there’s are 20+ characters with complicated names, often accompanied with nicknames or titles used by others, and only one narrator.

    Isn't this normal? I mean, when reading the book, there is also only one narrator

    It's a lot easier for me to follow a conversational thread in a written book than speaking. Admittedly it's probably different for everyone, but with written books I have multiple voices in my head and can more easily remember names if I can spend a moment on them.

    This is very interesting to me, because I don't ever actually imagine written work as speech, and therefore never differentiate characters this way. It had never occurred to me as a reason, but it's probably part of why I can't stand audiobooks.

    Edit: ok, further reading on this includes the first and only scholarly paper I've seen that analyzes Yahoo Answers, but it looks like samples suggest most people do, in fact, process reading by imagining audible voices. Number and character vary. Best paper I found in a short search was
    https://doi.org/10.1016/j.concog.2017.01.003 , where they conducted a survey of ~1500 participants in 2014.

    Antoshka on
    n57PM0C.jpg
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Antoshka wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Antoshka wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I started reading Gideon and, uh

    I don't really like it? The language of it feels really incongruous.
    I have it on audiobook and I stopped after two chapters. I am going to try again. The language of it drives me crazy too but I have weird pet peeves about narrator style and the like.

    I listened to the whole thing. It’s really confusing given there’s are 20+ characters with complicated names, often accompanied with nicknames or titles used by others, and only one narrator.

    Isn't this normal? I mean, when reading the book, there is also only one narrator

    It's a lot easier for me to follow a conversational thread in a written book than speaking. Admittedly it's probably different for everyone, but with written books I have multiple voices in my head and can more easily remember names if I can spend a moment on them.

    This is very interesting to me, because I don't ever actually imagine written work as speech, and therefore never differentiate characters this way. It had never occurred to me as a reason, but it's probably part of why I can't stand audiobooks.

    Edit: ok, further reading on this includes the first and only scholarly paper I've seen that analyzes Yahoo Answers, but it looks like samples suggest most people do, in fact, process reading by imagining audible voices. Number and character vary. Best paper I found in a short search was
    https://doi.org/10.1016/j.concog.2017.01.003 , where they conducted a survey of ~1500 participants in 2014.

    Kinda hard to describe for me. I don’t generally imagine the sound so much as... the tone? The feel maybe? If that makes sense?

    I’m one of the weirdos without an internal monologue too which probably has something to do with it.

    Brains are weird.

    Antoshkaflamebroiledchicken
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