More games should try splitting the XP gain evenly between everyone who would receive it (as an option). That would serve dual purpose of keeping everyone leveled while also making the game a bit more difficult, you'd have to work a little harder to stay leveled or else use better tactics in boss fights.
My personal feeling is:
- Full XP sharing for everyone always forever
- Dead characters earn XP
- Full respecs available at all times; I will allow for respecs that cost resources, so long as the resources are not finite and can be obtained in 10-15 minutes of play.
As King of Games, I have now made these personal feelings into laws. My apologies to everyone who disagrees; you will find that our jails are only moderately hellish.
My personal feeling is:
- Full XP sharing for everyone always forever
- Dead characters earn XP
- Full respecs available at all times; I will allow for respecs that cost resources, so long as the resources are not finite and can be obtained in 10-15 minutes of play.
As King of Games, I have now made these personal feelings into laws. My apologies to everyone who disagrees; you will find that our jails are only moderately hellish.
This does not conflict with my recommendation above. 8-)
My personal feeling is:
- Full XP sharing for everyone always forever
- Dead characters earn XP
- Full respecs available at all times; I will allow for respecs that cost resources, so long as the resources are not finite and can be obtained in 10-15 minutes of play.
As King of Games, I have now made these personal feelings into laws. My apologies to everyone who disagrees; you will find that our jails are only moderately hellish.
This does not conflict with my recommendation above. 8-)
Fair enough, but I'm afraid you still have to go to jail. It's Monday, everyone goes to jail on Mondays.
It's kinda rough because then no one can let anyone out on Tuesday - they're all in jail. I will allow that the laws still need some work.
Yeah, having even dead character get XP is a level of "Fuck it, whatever" I'm not sure I want in an RPG. I just get flashbacks to when my tabletop DM would eventually cave to a really grumpy player's constant whining.
I mean, I get it. There is no one else at the table you are disenfranchising in a single player RPG. But there is still the dialog between yourself and the game designer. They created a world, and abstracted rules that govern that world, in an attempt to immerse you in it. And all the responses of "Too hard, make it easier!" just feels like it cheapens that communication.
Some systems are just annoying. Especially the half measures which just turn around and encourage unfun play to be "optimal". And JRPGs have certainly dug themselves a good hole by frequently introducing more characters than you need, and frequently requiring you to dig them out of your roster during certain story events.
But I think in part because most JRPGs went the way of the Monty Haul campaign early in their history, compared to western CRPGs more tightly scoped leveling. I think the average Gold Box game had you progressing through less than 10 levels? I think max level in Fallout was something like 20? The only deviation from this as far as CRPGs I remember is Might & Magic.
Compare that to 50 to 70 levels in your average JRPG. It wouldn't be uncommon for me to complete a dungeon in your average D&D inspire CRPG and only one character advanced a level. In your average JRPG it might be 5 or 10 levels for every character. I walked across a field in the DQXI demo and gained 2 or 3 levels.
Everything since that split seems to be JRPGs mostly digging themselves deeper into the design debt that choice has burdened them with. When the difference between a character not being utilized for 2 or 3 hours is no longer ~10 hitpoints, ~10% better chance to hit, and one more high level spell, and is instead the difference between the dungeon boss one shotting them or not, you made yourself a problem. You have to start jumping through a lot of complicated hoops to fix them in ways that are, IMHO, unsatisfying and broadly cheapen the entire experience. But it seems JRPG fans are addicted to big numbers, so what are you gonna do?
Yeah, having even dead character get XP is a level of "Fuck it, whatever" I'm not sure I want in an RPG. I just get flashbacks to when my tabletop DM would eventually cave to a really grumpy player's constant whining.
I mean, I get it. There is no one else at the table you are disenfranchising in a single player RPG. But there is still the dialog between yourself and the game designer. They created a world, and abstracted rules that govern that world, in an attempt to immerse you in it. And all the responses of "Too hard, make it easier!" just feels like it cheapens that communication.
Some systems are just annoying. Especially the half measures which just turn around and encourage unfun play to be "optimal". And JRPGs have certainly dug themselves a good hole by frequently introducing more characters than you need, and frequently requiring you to dig them out of your roster during certain story events.
But I think in part because most JRPGs went the way of the Monty Haul campaign early in their history, compared to western CRPGs more tightly scoped leveling. I think the average Gold Box game had you progressing through less than 10 levels? I think max level in Fallout was something like 20? The only deviation from this as far as CRPGs I remember is Might & Magic.
Compare that to 50 to 70 levels in your average JRPG. It wouldn't be uncommon for me to complete a dungeon in your average D&D inspire CRPG and only one character advanced a level. In your average JRPG it might be 5 or 10 levels for every character. I walked across a field in the DQXI demo and gained 2 or 3 levels.
Everything since that split seems to be JRPGs mostly digging themselves deeper into the design debt that choice has burdened them with. When the difference between a character not being utilized for 2 or 3 hours is no longer ~10 hitpoints, ~10% better chance to hit, and one more high level spell, and is instead the difference between the dungeon boss one shotting them or not, you made yourself a problem. You have to start jumping through a lot of complicated hoops to fix them in ways that are, IMHO, unsatisfying and broadly cheapen the entire experience. But it seems JRPG fans are addicted to big numbers, so what are you gonna do?
...I mean, sure, in D&D there's less levels, but every level matters way the hell more. In FF6 ten levels is a noticeable numerical advantage but little else. In D&D two levels is access to an entire new level of spells without which you have absolutely no goddamn chance of beating the dungeon (say, being too low level to have Mass Nullify Poison). In Western CRPGs missing experience is more punishing, not less, because of the combination of "experience is way more limited" and "every level matters more".
I'm playing Pathfinder Kingmaker as we speak, and the difference between going into a dungeon at level 9 and at level 11 is night and day. And of course experience is limited because enemies are largely placed and don't respawn. So turning on the option of "characters miss experience for not being in the party makes an already very hard game way harder.
I don't really see the point of having to level individual characters within your party. How does this make the game better? Either I'm going to be obsessive over it and constantly change out my party members to level them up evenly (instead of choosing characters that match my play-style or who are better suited for the current mission), or I'm going to leave some characters behind, and then never use them again because they're so under-leveled.
+6
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
The point is to take up time and extend the shelf life of the game with (presumably) the content you enjoy, specifically the game's combat. It's a cheap and low-effort timesink.
0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I don't really see the point of having to level individual characters within your party. How does this make the game better? Either I'm going to be obsessive over it and constantly change out my party members to level them up evenly (instead of choosing characters that match my play-style or who are better suited for the current mission), or I'm going to leave some characters behind, and then never use them again because they're so under-leveled.
Hmmm. Bit of a jump here, but that's how it worked in the Shadowrun games, didn't it? All your non-PCs leveled up at the same time. Yeah, I could see that system working real well.
For as much as I love DQ5, it not only had characters that didn’t level with the rest of the party, but characters that you didn’t get until the last section of the game that started at levels 1-5, and even beyond that were monster characters that you could get at the very end that would start at like 1-5 and be pretty useless until level 15 or 20, at which point they would start to grow obscenely powerful.
Ugh. So yeah, mainly whatever you do modern games, just try not to do that.
I don't really see the point of having to level individual characters within your party. How does this make the game better? Either I'm going to be obsessive over it and constantly change out my party members to level them up evenly (instead of choosing characters that match my play-style or who are better suited for the current mission), or I'm going to leave some characters behind, and then never use them again because they're so under-leveled.
Hmmm. Bit of a jump here, but that's how it worked in the Shadowrun games, didn't it? All your non-PCs leveled up at the same time. Yeah, I could see that system working real well.
This is generally the accepted non-wanker method, yes. When you level up your entire character stable levels with you. Easy, simple, and maximizes the players ability to try multiple characters while minimizing busywork time.
-Reduced exp gains for non active members
-A dynamic exp system, in which lower party members get more exp based on the fight difficulty
Ideally speaking, the system would be tuned enough that if you suddenly needed a party member that you haven't yet used, then simply having them in the party during the current dungeon brings them up to speed, at the same time not being so neglectfully underleveled that they can't survive the task period. Basically maintain a balance of not making it an ordeal to level up characters and keep them leveled, but also maintain somewhat the core gameplay loop of the RPG, which is to fight monsters and level up.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
The point is to take up time and extend the shelf life of the game with (presumably) the content you enjoy, specifically the game's combat. It's a cheap and low-effort timesink.
Not everyone wants that, though. Unless it's an mmo, I typically don't want anything that is a time sink. In an single player RPG, I usually just want to get to the next story part or progress in some way that isn't simply a few numbers getting higher. And I love raising stats as much as the next person.
I personally like when my inactive party members level, even if its a reduced rate. Like someone mentioned about FF10, I loved the combat system where you could swap everyone into a fight, but it felt completely tedious for me to have to do it for EVERY character EVERY fight just to land a single hit so they could qualify for exp.
And I like my dead characters getting exp...mostly because I know myself and if one of them dies on a huge boss fight, I'll end up reloading the game so they don't miss out on all that sweet exp. I don't WANT to do that but it's one of my gaming compulsions.
I've seen a few RPGs that let you toggle things like this, and I like that a lot since there is clearly no one way that is going to satisfy everyone.
If they do put out a Switch version of Overwatch, I hope it will allow you to import your existing stuff. I really don’t want to try to collect all of my skins etc again.
On the one hand I have no strong feelings towards Overwatch one way or the other, at least as a game.
On the other hand, the whole lootbox system is now anathema to me. And this is arguably the game that pioneered and normalized it. If there was any part of me that was interested in playing Overwatch, it's long gone now.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
@SatanIsMyMotor for the record in the future, to sell me on a game instantly just tell me that the game has a bitching synthwave soundtrack. Holy shit this game has great music.
... Talking about RAD. Okay I need to buy this soundtrack!
RAD looks neat but ive got my xbox gamepass goggles on all the time now after buying like 3 games and not playing them only to see them come to gamepass, im wary.
RAD looks neat but ive got my xbox gamepass goggles on all the time now after buying like 3 games and not playing them only to see them come to gamepass, im wary.
It's fun but yeah I know the feeling.
... This music though. I could just sit here and listen.
0
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Whelp, the September direct we were all expecting was apparently unofficially confirmed due to Amazon's goof. :P
I hope Overwatch for the Switch is touchscreen only.
Laughing my ass off at that is pretty much the only enjoyment I could derive from Overwatch again.
(I'm not saying it's a bad game, but it shares a special un-place in my heart nowadays. I look upon those times with agony of the 100s of dollars I spent on lootboxes like a raving madman. Yes, I know that means I am - or was - part of the problem.)
There's too many good games on the Switch. My backlog is beyond full, and there's always something else I want to get (Daemon x Machina, Astral Chain, the old RPGs (Planescape: Torment especially), etc.).
PSN/XBL/Nintendo/Origin/Steam: Nightslyr 3DS: 1607-1682-2948 Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
Hi, I know there's probably a Fire Emblem thread, but I'll ask: Is every single instance I'm forced to kill one of my former friends in Three Houses supposed to feel like ten stab wounds through the heart? Answers on a postcard please.
God, the church's invasion of Garreg Mach in the Black Eagles storyline (which I played through yesterday) is still haunting me this morning. If they're trying to depict how waging war over an ideal still compromises your morality and humanity, they fucking succeeded.
Posts
- Full XP sharing for everyone always forever
- Dead characters earn XP
- Full respecs available at all times; I will allow for respecs that cost resources, so long as the resources are not finite and can be obtained in 10-15 minutes of play.
As King of Games, I have now made these personal feelings into laws. My apologies to everyone who disagrees; you will find that our jails are only moderately hellish.
This does not conflict with my recommendation above. 8-)
It was like "wait... You can do that?!" Levels of realization
Should they get EVEN MORE EXPERIENCE because death is a really great learning experience?
Imagine trying to finish every boss fight with all your characters dead but one for maximum XP gain.
It's kinda rough because then no one can let anyone out on Tuesday - they're all in jail. I will allow that the laws still need some work.
Switch - SW-3699-5063-5018
I mean, I get it. There is no one else at the table you are disenfranchising in a single player RPG. But there is still the dialog between yourself and the game designer. They created a world, and abstracted rules that govern that world, in an attempt to immerse you in it. And all the responses of "Too hard, make it easier!" just feels like it cheapens that communication.
Some systems are just annoying. Especially the half measures which just turn around and encourage unfun play to be "optimal". And JRPGs have certainly dug themselves a good hole by frequently introducing more characters than you need, and frequently requiring you to dig them out of your roster during certain story events.
But I think in part because most JRPGs went the way of the Monty Haul campaign early in their history, compared to western CRPGs more tightly scoped leveling. I think the average Gold Box game had you progressing through less than 10 levels? I think max level in Fallout was something like 20? The only deviation from this as far as CRPGs I remember is Might & Magic.
Compare that to 50 to 70 levels in your average JRPG. It wouldn't be uncommon for me to complete a dungeon in your average D&D inspire CRPG and only one character advanced a level. In your average JRPG it might be 5 or 10 levels for every character. I walked across a field in the DQXI demo and gained 2 or 3 levels.
Everything since that split seems to be JRPGs mostly digging themselves deeper into the design debt that choice has burdened them with. When the difference between a character not being utilized for 2 or 3 hours is no longer ~10 hitpoints, ~10% better chance to hit, and one more high level spell, and is instead the difference between the dungeon boss one shotting them or not, you made yourself a problem. You have to start jumping through a lot of complicated hoops to fix them in ways that are, IMHO, unsatisfying and broadly cheapen the entire experience. But it seems JRPG fans are addicted to big numbers, so what are you gonna do?
Kind of giving me a modern day much tighter Shenmue with better action vibe with what those reviews are saying.
What?
...I mean, sure, in D&D there's less levels, but every level matters way the hell more. In FF6 ten levels is a noticeable numerical advantage but little else. In D&D two levels is access to an entire new level of spells without which you have absolutely no goddamn chance of beating the dungeon (say, being too low level to have Mass Nullify Poison). In Western CRPGs missing experience is more punishing, not less, because of the combination of "experience is way more limited" and "every level matters more".
I'm playing Pathfinder Kingmaker as we speak, and the difference between going into a dungeon at level 9 and at level 11 is night and day. And of course experience is limited because enemies are largely placed and don't respawn. So turning on the option of "characters miss experience for not being in the party makes an already very hard game way harder.
Hmmm. Bit of a jump here, but that's how it worked in the Shadowrun games, didn't it? All your non-PCs leveled up at the same time. Yeah, I could see that system working real well.
Ugh. So yeah, mainly whatever you do modern games, just try not to do that.
This is generally the accepted non-wanker method, yes. When you level up your entire character stable levels with you. Easy, simple, and maximizes the players ability to try multiple characters while minimizing busywork time.
-Reduced exp gains for non active members
-A dynamic exp system, in which lower party members get more exp based on the fight difficulty
Ideally speaking, the system would be tuned enough that if you suddenly needed a party member that you haven't yet used, then simply having them in the party during the current dungeon brings them up to speed, at the same time not being so neglectfully underleveled that they can't survive the task period. Basically maintain a balance of not making it an ordeal to level up characters and keep them leveled, but also maintain somewhat the core gameplay loop of the RPG, which is to fight monsters and level up.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Not everyone wants that, though. Unless it's an mmo, I typically don't want anything that is a time sink. In an single player RPG, I usually just want to get to the next story part or progress in some way that isn't simply a few numbers getting higher. And I love raising stats as much as the next person.
I personally like when my inactive party members level, even if its a reduced rate. Like someone mentioned about FF10, I loved the combat system where you could swap everyone into a fight, but it felt completely tedious for me to have to do it for EVERY character EVERY fight just to land a single hit so they could qualify for exp.
And I like my dead characters getting exp...mostly because I know myself and if one of them dies on a huge boss fight, I'll end up reloading the game so they don't miss out on all that sweet exp. I don't WANT to do that but it's one of my gaming compulsions.
I've seen a few RPGs that let you toggle things like this, and I like that a lot since there is clearly no one way that is going to satisfy everyone.
Looks like it may have been listed prematurely.
I would totally buy Overwatch on Switch.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Labo mechsuit you say?
On the other hand, the whole lootbox system is now anathema to me. And this is arguably the game that pioneered and normalized it. If there was any part of me that was interested in playing Overwatch, it's long gone now.
Blah, I dun speak good. Never mind my brain ramblings
D va or go home
... Talking about RAD. Okay I need to buy this soundtrack!
It's fun but yeah I know the feeling.
... This music though. I could just sit here and listen.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
Laughing my ass off at that is pretty much the only enjoyment I could derive from Overwatch again.
(I'm not saying it's a bad game, but it shares a special un-place in my heart nowadays. I look upon those times with agony of the 100s of dollars I spent on lootboxes like a raving madman. Yes, I know that means I am - or was - part of the problem.)
There's too many good games on the Switch. My backlog is beyond full, and there's always something else I want to get (Daemon x Machina, Astral Chain, the old RPGs (Planescape: Torment especially), etc.).
Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia