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[nba] franken-warriors rise as curse of the brook settles over lakers

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Yeah, the Warriors have a lot of turnovers because of their offense - everyone is constantly moving and the ball gets thrown around trying to find a great shot. The Celtics have a lot of turnovers because their primary ball handlers don't actually have handles and make terrible decisions. They also hunt for fouls instead of just, like, playing the game.

  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    the celtics blitzed all the p&rs and shut down steph because of it, but got absolutely torched inside doing it and made themselves dead tired in the process

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  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    Yeah, the Warriors have a lot of turnovers because of their offense - everyone is constantly moving and the ball gets thrown around trying to find a great shot. The Celtics have a lot of turnovers because their primary ball handlers don't actually have handles and make terrible decisions. They also hunt for fouls instead of just, like, playing the game.

    The obnoxious thing about the Celtics is they are fully capable of playing smooth, assist heavy, ball moving basketball. And are utterly dominant when they do. But 80% of the time they just DON’T. Stagnant, iso heavy matchup hunting (even if it worked game 3). Maybe it’s playoff defenses because they did it constantly in regular season, but it’s like dudes. Pls

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Well if the Celtics want to win the title they’re gonna have to think about winning the next two games

    Yo, what up Magic

    KasynRingo
  • marajimaraji Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Yeah, the Warriors have a lot of turnovers because of their offense - everyone is constantly moving and the ball gets thrown around trying to find a great shot. The Celtics have a lot of turnovers because their primary ball handlers don't actually have handles and make terrible decisions. They also hunt for fouls instead of just, like, playing the game.

    The obnoxious thing about the Celtics is they are fully capable of playing smooth, assist heavy, ball moving basketball. And are utterly dominant when they do. But 80% of the time they just DON’T. Stagnant, iso heavy matchup hunting (even if it worked game 3). Maybe it’s playoff defenses because they did it constantly in regular season, but it’s like dudes. Pls

    They tend to fall back on iso nonsense when they panic. For most of the series they avoided it, but once they got close in the fourth quarter of game 4 it was like reality closed in and they reverted back to form: chucking up bad threes early in the shot clock, actual shooters deferring to Smart, and generally looking unprepared.

    It was funny hearing people declare the Celtics ready to ascend after game three, with takes like “the Warriors have no way to answer when they play like that” - and, yeah, but are they going to play like that? has been the question all season.

    y2jake215Ringo
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    edited June 14


    I had been looking for these stats, not actually as bad as I expected post injury (wondering what the turnover numbers are though). Thread also implying Tatum has a torn labrum which would suck but also fits a lot of what we’ve seen. I had one, they stink.

    y2jake215 on
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    marajiTicaldfjamRingo
  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    So, not at all trying to jinx the Warriors here. No, definitely not. But, assuming the Warriors win, and Steph Curry gets MVP, even despite the fact that he is obvs a terrible shooter now (I mean 0-9, what a chump), where do we think another title put Curry in the all-time rankings?

    I feel like it has to unequivocally move him above Durant, putting him second of all guys from his era (behind either Lebron or Dame, you know, depending on your taste). Does he get to start being talked about in the Magic, Bird, Wilt group in the 4-8 all time range? Or is he still just outside of that? I think in my mind, it's probably putting him into the Shaq, Duncan, Dr. J., Jerry West kind of tier of a generational talent with a lot of success, both individual and team, but where you could point to someone else from their generation as being more impactful (again, Dame obvs). So, like 8-12 type of range. If he were to get another title, or another MVP after this one, then I think you have to start putting him int the Magic-Bird level group.

    Jebus314
  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    burbo wrote: »
    I feel like it has to unequivocally move him above Durant, putting him second of all guys from his era (behind either Lebron or Dame, you know, depending on your taste).

    The troll is strong with this one

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited June 14
    burbo wrote: »
    So, not at all trying to jinx the Warriors here. No, definitely not. But, assuming the Warriors win, and Steph Curry gets MVP, even despite the fact that he is obvs a terrible shooter now (I mean 0-9, what a chump), where do we think another title put Curry in the all-time rankings?

    I feel like it has to unequivocally move him above Durant, putting him second of all guys from his era (behind either Lebron or Dame, you know, depending on your taste). Does he get to start being talked about in the Magic, Bird, Wilt group in the 4-8 all time range? Or is he still just outside of that? I think in my mind, it's probably putting him into the Shaq, Duncan, Dr. J., Jerry West kind of tier of a generational talent with a lot of success, both individual and team, but where you could point to someone else from their generation as being more impactful (again, Dame obvs). So, like 8-12 type of range. If he were to get another title, or another MVP after this one, then I think you have to start putting him int the Magic-Bird level group.

    Steph is with Bird and Magic- transformative guys anchoring championship dynasties who lost prime years to injury/illness and thus not in the MJ/Lebron conversation. Actually he might be better than Bird/Magic, as he’s been more impactful.

    Captain Inertia on
    tzeentchlingRingo
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Depends on how you define "impact", too.

    Bird and Magic are Top 10 if only because they pretty much catapulted basketball from a relatively popular, but still niche sport like tennis into the national consciousness. Besides Michael Jordan or historical, foundational athletes like Wilt Chamberlain, there are very few players who had as much of a cultural impact as Bird and Magic, regardless of their actual skills on the floor and how they compare against everyone else.

    I'm not sure Steph is in the same category as those guys from a cultural perspective, but he arguably is. If he isn't, then he's as close as you can get without being in that same tier.

    However, in terms of impact on how the game of basketball is played, he is undoubtedly Top 5. An entire generation of players are growing up and emulating his style of play, and we will almost certainly see a corresponding rise in 3P% as a consequence, which will change how the game is played even more than it has changed already.

    If you're asking which player you would take to build a team around, then he's probably up there, too. But he'd likely still be below players like Jordan or Kareem or LeBron who could have an impact on both sides of the floor and are not as dependent upon their teammates to make open shots. Like, if I take Steph then there's no guarantee I can get a good wing or paint defender to fill the rest of my team. But that's more of a theoretical issue than a real one... If you had the same budget and the same GM and they had to build a team around a single player, Steph is arguably in the same category as those GOAT players because he doesn't require the offense to be run through him in order to add value, and filling out your roster would be an intentional exercise.

    MagellRingo
  • The Cow KingThe Cow King a island Registered User regular
    edited June 15
    Steph has given us Holey Moley that's a significant piece of culture

    The Cow King on
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    RingoCarpy
  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    TelMarine wrote: »
    burbo wrote: »
    I feel like it has to unequivocally move him above Durant, putting him second of all guys from his era (behind either Lebron or Dame, you know, depending on your taste).

    The troll is strong with this one

    How dare you imply that not everything I type on this basketball thread is not 100% good faith, open-hearted, well researched earnestness! The impugnment of my character is staggering! My word! Huff huff! Puff puff!

    (sorry, I've been watching a bit of Gilded Age with my partner)

  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    Depends on how you define "impact", too.

    Bird and Magic are Top 10 if only because they pretty much catapulted basketball from a relatively popular, but still niche sport like tennis into the national consciousness. Besides Michael Jordan or historical, foundational athletes like Wilt Chamberlain, there are very few players who had as much of a cultural impact as Bird and Magic, regardless of their actual skills on the floor and how they compare against everyone else.

    I'm not sure Steph is in the same category as those guys from a cultural perspective, but he arguably is. If he isn't, then he's as close as you can get without being in that same tier.

    However, in terms of impact on how the game of basketball is played, he is undoubtedly Top 5. An entire generation of players are growing up and emulating his style of play, and we will almost certainly see a corresponding rise in 3P% as a consequence, which will change how the game is played even more than it has changed already.

    If you're asking which player you would take to build a team around, then he's probably up there, too. But he'd likely still be below players like Jordan or Kareem or LeBron who could have an impact on both sides of the floor and are not as dependent upon their teammates to make open shots. Like, if I take Steph then there's no guarantee I can get a good wing or paint defender to fill the rest of my team. But that's more of a theoretical issue than a real one... If you had the same budget and the same GM and they had to build a team around a single player, Steph is arguably in the same category as those GOAT players because he doesn't require the offense to be run through him in order to add value, and filling out your roster would be an intentional exercise.

    I agree with a lot of what you wrote, his on-court stylistic impact is pretty powerful, and his off ball gravity is the toughest to quantify. I agree with the team building, on offense, he can fit with anyone, but not as much on D. If we start stacking up on court accomplishments though, it's still hard to put him past, say, Shaq (4 titles, 3 as best player, 1 MVP, undoubtably most impactful force in the game for several years, crazy playoff performances, influenced rule changes, etc.) and Duncan (5 titles, 3-4 as best player, 2 MVPs, defensive players of the year, super good longevity, crazy consistency, but almost no cultural or stylistic impact). He still feels very much on the level with those guys, to me.

  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    You can’t be a top 10 player if you didn’t appear in one of the space jams, sorry steph

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    burboThe Cow King
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I think to build a team around, MJ is 1A, Lebron is 1B
    Duncan might be 3 to me…Russell was my easy #3 until I just started doubting how he’d work offensively given what all the other guys across the history of the NBA can bring…

    Fwiw, Kobe and Shaq are way way way fucking down this particular list

  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    You can’t be a top 10 player if you didn’t appear in one of the space jams, sorry steph

    Shawn Bradley = Absolute Legend

    TicaldfjamCaptain Inertia
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    I think to build a team around, MJ is 1A, Lebron is 1B
    Duncan might be 3 to me…Russell was my easy #3 until I just started doubting how he’d work offensively given what all the other guys across the history of the NBA can bring…

    Fwiw, Kobe and Shaq are way way way fucking down this particular list

    I understand Kobe, but you'd drop Shaq?!?!? He was so dominant that teams would hire 7 foot guys who couldn't play just so they could foul him. We're talking about prime Shaq, right? There are very, very few players I'd take over Shaq in his prime...

    burboRingoThe Cow Kingqwer12
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited June 14
    Shaq played against all the HoF Cs in the twilights of their careers (Ewing, Robinson, notably outplayed by Olajuwon in 95) and the next tier down was Zo and Dikembe

    The next generation up mustered Ben Wallace and Yao (if healthy), and KG and Duncan if you want to play them out of position

    Shaq was great, but probably not that great

    Like for example, just for Cs, I’d take Russell, Kareem, Wilt, Jokic, and Hakeem before him

    Captain Inertia on
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Shaq was a god damn force of nature.

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  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    Shaq is probably the person I would like to guard least in the history of the nba

    Unless there’s some very sweaty guy

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    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    edited June 15
    Shaq did things that I wouldn’t think were possible to do if I didn’t see him do them. Dude was beyond unstoppable

    Knight_ on
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  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Shaq is probably the person I would like to guard least in the history of the nba

    Unless there’s some very sweaty guy

    Shaq himself was pretty darn sweaty

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
    Captain InertiaThe Cow KingmarajiCarpy
  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    Anyone who was a Kings fan at the turn of the millenium knows how goddam terrifying Shaq was. It just felt so helpless playing against him.

    RingoTicaldfjam
  • The Cow KingThe Cow King a island Registered User regular
    edited June 15
    Shaq did hilariously prove that zone defense isn't a forbidden beast

    As I claimed earlier he wasn't why it was unbanned but since it was banned to stop dude from getting to the paint by clogging the lane Shaq was like ok np lol

    The Cow King on
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  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    There is a clip coming up on TikTok for me all the time - interview with Kobe, where the interviewer asks "Where would Shaq be, if he had your work ethic / be in the gym as much as you?"

    And Kobe says "Greatest of all time. No doubt. I'd have fucking 12 rings by now if he went to the gym".

    First minute of this clip:

    RingoInquisitor77
  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Mavs giving up essentially 5 players (4 players + 1st round pick) for Christian Wood. Seems to be a nice win for the Mavericks, although I'm curious to see how Christian Wood pans out. He has put up numbers, but on bad teams.

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  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Oh wow, this fucking hilarious. That song hit for Andrew, haha

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular

    TheBigEasy
  • marajimaraji Registered User regular


    Still makes me laugh every time.

    R-demKnight_RingotzeentchlingThe Cow King
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    Zach Zarba tonight? GG warriors, congrats

    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    79ob0k3y1jp9.jpeg

    💀

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    MagellTelMarinetzeentchlingInquisitor77marajiMsAnthropyPreacherA Kobold's KoboldCarpyButters
  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Zach Zarba tonight? GG warriors, congrats

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    Captain InertiaMagellmaraji
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    TelMarine wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Zach Zarba tonight? GG warriors, congrats


    that guy (a warriors fan) is being sincere though

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    maraji
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    edited June 16
    Also Cs in 7

    53046zi8tpjd.jpeg

    y2jake215 on
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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited June 16
    For what it’s worth, the Cs were only ever going to win the series in 7 if they were going to win at all

    Captain Inertia on
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    TelMarine wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Zach Zarba tonight? GG warriors, congrats


    that guy (a warriors fan) is being sincere though

    Also the spread moved half a point to the warriors after the refs were announced lol

    Ideally… that shouldn’t happen

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    TelMarine
  • marajimaraji Registered User regular
    NBA is probably the league where the ref assignments matter the most, for a variety of reasons.

    Oh, and Angel Hernandez.

    y2jake215
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    maraji wrote: »
    NBA is probably the league where the ref assignments matter the most, for a variety of reasons.

    Oh, and Angel Hernandez.

    Nah, football is where it's at. Every down has something you can call, if you really wanted to.

  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    Is everyone ready

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
  • marajimaraji Registered User regular
    maraji wrote: »
    NBA is probably the league where the ref assignments matter the most, for a variety of reasons.

    Oh, and Angel Hernandez.

    Nah, football is where it's at. Every down has something you can call, if you really wanted to.

    Maybe, but the NBA refs constantly insert themselves into the game flow, and tend to shape the style of game. And are also very protected from (in game) criticism of this. In the NFL you get bad refs, and sometimes variation in how a crew calls PI, but it’s not something that routinely affects team game plans like the NBA.


    Also there’s the whole ref gambling fiasco.

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