[MCU] Nevermind, just a case of the ol' ALF method.

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  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    Capt Howdy wrote: »
    What are the chances Keaton would agree to only be allowed to play The Vulture in Disney produced Marvel films? Or JK Simmons with Triple J?

    I mean hell, if they decide to do an alternate universe thing where they codify that Venom/Morbius is happening in the Raimiverse, and Keaton is playing the Raimiverse version of Vulture, and JK is playing his old Ramiverse version of JK (complete with full head of hair), I would be ok with that! It sets the groundwork for alternate realities to the MCU that have been hinted at in Dr. Strange and allows Sony to maintain a certain degree of freedom with their Universe without necessarily stepping on Marvel's dick. Not a bad compromise.

    Then again, if this is the Raimiverse, then how do we explain Venom not being the same one as in Spider Man 3?

    Ah, isn't being a nerd fun?

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Capt Howdy wrote: »
    What are the chances Keaton would agree to only be allowed to play The Vulture in Disney produced Marvel films? Or JK Simmons with Triple J?

    I mean hell, if they decide to do an alternate universe thing where they codify that Venom/Morbius is happening in the Raimiverse, and Keaton is playing the Raimiverse version of Vulture, and JK is playing his old Ramiverse version of JK (complete with full head of hair), I would be ok with that! It sets the groundwork for alternate realities to the MCU that have been hinted at in Dr. Strange and allows Sony to maintain a certain degree of freedom with their Universe without necessarily stepping on Marvel's dick. Not a bad compromise.

    Then again, if this is the Raimiverse, then how do we explain Venom not being the same one as in Spider Man 3?

    Ah, isn't being a nerd fun?

    no!

    it's exhausting and tedious!

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  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    Capt Howdy wrote: »
    What are the chances Keaton would agree to only be allowed to play The Vulture in Disney produced Marvel films? Or JK Simmons with Triple J?

    I mean hell, if they decide to do an alternate universe thing where they codify that Venom/Morbius is happening in the Raimiverse, and Keaton is playing the Raimiverse version of Vulture, and JK is playing his old Ramiverse version of JK (complete with full head of hair), I would be ok with that! It sets the groundwork for alternate realities to the MCU that have been hinted at in Dr. Strange and allows Sony to maintain a certain degree of freedom with their Universe without necessarily stepping on Marvel's dick. Not a bad compromise.

    Then again, if this is the Raimiverse, then how do we explain Venom not being the same one as in Spider Man 3?

    Ah, isn't being a nerd fun?

    That would be so confusing to general audiences though.

    Like you can do alternate realities, or films disconnected from the MCU or other properties, but casting the same actors for the same roles only tweaked, would confuse the hell out of 90% of the audience.

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  • Ravenhpltc24Ravenhpltc24 So Raven Registered User regular
    New footage in this "special look" trailer for Black Widow -- this looks better than the first trailer imo. The final stare down is :+1:

    (V) ( ;,,; ) (V)
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  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Capt Howdy wrote: »
    What are the chances Keaton would agree to only be allowed to play The Vulture in Disney produced Marvel films? Or JK Simmons with Triple J?

    I mean hell, if they decide to do an alternate universe thing where they codify that Venom/Morbius is happening in the Raimiverse, and Keaton is playing the Raimiverse version of Vulture, and JK is playing his old Ramiverse version of JK (complete with full head of hair), I would be ok with that! It sets the groundwork for alternate realities to the MCU that have been hinted at in Dr. Strange and allows Sony to maintain a certain degree of freedom with their Universe without necessarily stepping on Marvel's dick. Not a bad compromise.

    Then again, if this is the Raimiverse, then how do we explain Venom not being the same one as in Spider Man 3?

    Ah, isn't being a nerd fun?

    That would be so confusing to general audiences though.

    Like you can do alternate realities, or films disconnected from the MCU or other properties, but casting the same actors for the same roles only tweaked, would confuse the hell out of 90% of the audience.

    Well, we don't want to do that! Everyone knows that there are only so many actors to go around, they HAD to cast Michael Keaton, right? I mean, who else could they have gotten to play the unknown character who is totally not the Vulture even though he's played by the same actor and wearing the same clothes? That would be confusing!

    ooooooor...

    Maybe the possibility exists Sony and Disney have made nice and Morbius and Venom are part of the MCU now

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    I don't think they're part of the MCU, there's the MCU and there's the Sonyverse, and Holland and people in his movies seem like fair game. I don't think you're gonna see Iron Man posters or anything like that. In fact what we saw in the trailer may very well be the extent of it. I do think they'll save the big cameos for Venom 2.

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  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    The door to the MCU is a one way street, and i am pretty sure the Marvel bouncer is gonna bounce anything not up to snuff.
    Tom Holland? Dudes a treasure, he is in and drinks are on the house.
    Keaton? Always does a good job. He is in.
    JK Simmons? Perfection is never to be ignored, give him the special table in the back and break out the expensive stuff.

    Venom? OH we're sorry man. Invitation only. You understand. There is a little place down the street i hear they're great. Yea its called Sony's. It has a cover fee but if you're thirsty....
    I'm sorry Leto who? No sir. No i'm very sorry you're not on the list here. No. Sir i did check it twice. Sir....I....Sir......Damnit someone get the bouncer over here!
    *gets flexed on by Ali*

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  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    I'm hoping Taskmaster is not the big bad in the Black Widow movie and he's just a merc like his comic incarnation.

    He's much more interesting to me that way.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    What’s that villain’s name again?

    Cause I ain’t gonna lie, seeing him copy Hawkeye, Cap, and Widow like that is pretty cool.

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    I don’t know what to say. Trailers, especially comic book trailers, have a history of lying or blowing minor things out of proportion.

    Maybe the plan all along was for a Sony/MCU crossover. Maybe it’s a marketing trick to build hype and Keaton is just a minor scene in the middle of the movie. It’s hardly the first time something like this has happened.

    When Marvel confirms a crossover with Sony, I’ll believe it. Until then it’s just hype to me.

    What's really funny to me is that is really 'on brand' for comics media in general.

    Comics have always been on Big Events like characters getting married, or YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHO DIES IN THIS ISSUE style hooks (don't worry, they walk it off shortly thereafter, if not in that very issue, or it was a dream, or an illusion, or clones, or another reality, or robots, or or or or), etc.

    Building hype in their marketing has been an artform for comics in particular for longer than most forumers here have been alive.

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    What’s that villain’s name again?

    Cause I ain’t gonna lie, seeing him copy Hawkeye, Cap, and Widow like that is pretty cool.

    Taskmaster

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    I'm hoping Taskmaster is not the big bad in the Black Widow movie and he's just a merc like his comic incarnation.

    He's much more interesting to me that way.

    Marvel Heroes had my favorite version of the character:

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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    I think in Sony's movies, the events of the MCU are "canon", and they'll include references to as much of it as they are contractually permitted to. In the MCU, Sony's movies are not canon unless they're feeling really generous and make individual exceptions. Maybe Tom Hardy Venom makes it into an MCU movie at some point, but that is not an admission that his movies are canonical.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I still want to see him try to copy someone and just ineffectually punch a wall.
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  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    I'm hoping Taskmaster is not the big bad in the Black Widow movie and he's just a merc like his comic incarnation.

    He's much more interesting to me that way.

    Marvel Heroes

    RIP

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    I'm hoping Taskmaster is not the big bad in the Black Widow movie and he's just a merc like his comic incarnation.

    He's much more interesting to me that way.

    Marvel Heroes had my favorite version of the character:


    This is fucking amazing.

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  • RingoRingo HE KEEPS REPEATING THE LINE I'M GONNA CRY BLEASE LET HIM LIVE YOU MADE ME WATCH SO MUCH KISSING IN THIS FILM LET INIGO LIVERegistered User regular
    And it's been Taskmaster's gimmick since the beginning!

    He makes money training villains and henchmen. His mercing stuff was less prominent before the last decade

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    Like them a lot, but Drow Shadow Monk for Spider-Man does not fit (Drow Shadow Monk is obviously Nightcrawler). Spider-Man is probably more Drunken Master Monk.

    Except consider: what animal is most strongly associated with the drow?

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    jdarksun wrote: »
    No way. A reference to both Spidey himself and an appearance by an actor who recently played a well-liked version of a Spidey villain appearing together in the same preview? There's no way that's a coincidence. This was totally designed to be picked up on by nerds like us. I mean, they directly name drop the Spidey movies in the opening crawl. This is not an accident. This is absolutely meant to be a bridge to the MCU.
    It's a one-way street relationship. The Sonyverse can reference stuff that happens in the MCU, but - right now - the Sonyverse characters aren't going to show up in the MCU. Spider-man is basically the only one that's allowed to go back and forth.
    Oh?

    Are we ignoring the other posts being made about how Michael Keaton is wearing the exact same clothes he wore in Homecoming or that JK Simmons is rumored to be in this? More coincidences or intentional fan baiting?

    I don't recall any such explicit references to Spidey in Venom, Raimi version or otherwise?
    No; Homecoming and Far From Home aren't really in the MCU, they're MCU adjacent (edit: strictly speaking they ARE MCU, I'm wrong. one sec, i've got another post). They're part of the Sonyverse. Sure, they showed up in "Phase whatever" but because of licensing and shit the only characters that come from the Sonyverse to the MCU are Spider-man (and Aunt May for like five seconds in Endgame).

    So like Spider-Man and Venom might team up with Morbius to fight Carnage in Venom 3: Maximum Carnage, and they might have tea and talk about the Snapture, but Spidey ain't saying shit about it to his pals Stature and Ironheart in Avengers 5: Young Avengers.

    jdarksun on
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    No way. A reference to both Spidey himself and an appearance by an actor who recently played a well-liked version of a Spidey villain appearing together in the same preview? There's no way that's a coincidence. This was totally designed to be picked up on by nerds like us. I mean, they directly name drop the Spidey movies in the opening crawl. This is not an accident. This is absolutely meant to be a bridge to the MCU.
    It's a one-way street relationship. The Sonyverse can reference stuff that happens in the MCU, but - right now - the Sonyverse characters aren't going to show up in the MCU. Spider-man is basically the only one that's allowed to go back and forth.
    Oh?

    Are we ignoring the other posts being made about how Michael Keaton is wearing the exact same clothes he wore in Homecoming or that JK Simmons is rumored to be in this? More coincidences or intentional fan baiting?

    I don't recall any such explicit references to Spidey in Venom, Raimi version or otherwise?
    No; Homecoming and Far From Home aren't really in the MCU, they're MCU adjacent. They're part of the Sonyverse. Sure, they showed up in "Phase whatever" but because of licensing and shit the only characters that come from the Sonyverse to the MCU are Spider-man (and Aunt May for like five seconds in Endgame).

    Gonna need a citation needed on this one, as this is saying some very, very explicit things about a contract nobody here has seen.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Don’t forget Ned in Infinity War, the guy in the chair gets credit too!

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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    No way. A reference to both Spidey himself and an appearance by an actor who recently played a well-liked version of a Spidey villain appearing together in the same preview? There's no way that's a coincidence. This was totally designed to be picked up on by nerds like us. I mean, they directly name drop the Spidey movies in the opening crawl. This is not an accident. This is absolutely meant to be a bridge to the MCU.
    It's a one-way street relationship. The Sonyverse can reference stuff that happens in the MCU, but - right now - the Sonyverse characters aren't going to show up in the MCU. Spider-man is basically the only one that's allowed to go back and forth.
    Oh?

    Are we ignoring the other posts being made about how Michael Keaton is wearing the exact same clothes he wore in Homecoming or that JK Simmons is rumored to be in this? More coincidences or intentional fan baiting?

    I don't recall any such explicit references to Spidey in Venom, Raimi version or otherwise?
    No; Homecoming and Far From Home aren't really in the MCU, they're MCU adjacent. They're part of the Sonyverse. Sure, they showed up in "Phase whatever" but because of licensing and shit the only characters that come from the Sonyverse to the MCU are Spider-man (and Aunt May for like five seconds in Endgame).

    So like Spider-Man and Venom might team up with Morbius to fight Carnage in Venom 3: Maximum Carnage, and they might have tea and talk about the Snapture, but Spidey ain't saying shit about it to his pals Stature and Ironheart in Avengers 5: Young Avengers.

    Parker is literally on a bus with his school mates in Infinity War, and Ned makes a distraction for Peter to get away in his suit.

    What other characters make sense in the context of what happened in Infinity War? Have Thanos dangle Mary Jane over a ledge?

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    Like them a lot, but Drow Shadow Monk for Spider-Man does not fit (Drow Shadow Monk is obviously Nightcrawler). Spider-Man is probably more Drunken Master Monk.

    Except consider: what animal is most strongly associated with the drow?

    The white haired Drizzt?

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    Like them a lot, but Drow Shadow Monk for Spider-Man does not fit (Drow Shadow Monk is obviously Nightcrawler). Spider-Man is probably more Drunken Master Monk.

    Except consider: what animal is most strongly associated with the drow?

    The white haired Drizzt?

    Spiders

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    Like them a lot, but Drow Shadow Monk for Spider-Man does not fit (Drow Shadow Monk is obviously Nightcrawler). Spider-Man is probably more Drunken Master Monk.

    Except consider: what animal is most strongly associated with the drow?

    The white haired Drizzt?

    Spiders

    Is that what Lolth resembles?

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    Like them a lot, but Drow Shadow Monk for Spider-Man does not fit (Drow Shadow Monk is obviously Nightcrawler). Spider-Man is probably more Drunken Master Monk.

    Except consider: what animal is most strongly associated with the drow?

    The white haired Drizzt?

    Spiders

    Is that what Lolth resembles?

    It’s part of her portfolio.

    Edit: I just realized I didn’t even have to look that up. I just know it offhand.

    Goddamn I’m such a fucking nerd!

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    No way. A reference to both Spidey himself and an appearance by an actor who recently played a well-liked version of a Spidey villain appearing together in the same preview? There's no way that's a coincidence. This was totally designed to be picked up on by nerds like us. I mean, they directly name drop the Spidey movies in the opening crawl. This is not an accident. This is absolutely meant to be a bridge to the MCU.
    It's a one-way street relationship. The Sonyverse can reference stuff that happens in the MCU, but - right now - the Sonyverse characters aren't going to show up in the MCU. Spider-man is basically the only one that's allowed to go back and forth.
    Oh?

    Are we ignoring the other posts being made about how Michael Keaton is wearing the exact same clothes he wore in Homecoming or that JK Simmons is rumored to be in this? More coincidences or intentional fan baiting?

    I don't recall any such explicit references to Spidey in Venom, Raimi version or otherwise?
    No; Homecoming and Far From Home aren't really in the MCU, they're MCU adjacent. They're part of the Sonyverse. Sure, they showed up in "Phase whatever" but because of licensing and shit the only characters that come from the Sonyverse to the MCU are Spider-man (and Aunt May for like five seconds in Endgame).

    Gonna need a citation needed on this one, as this is saying some very, very explicit things about a contract nobody here has seen.
    Sure, I fucked up explaining it and got some stuff wrong. base details are a simple web search away. Sony agreed to share Spider-Man with Marvel for three Marvel helmed movies (Civil War, Infinity War, Endgame) and two Sony-helmed movies (Homecoming, Far From Home). Sony and Marvel tried to renegotiate for a third Sony-helmed movie tied to the MCU, shit fell apart, they parted ways. Spider-Man would never show up in the Marvel-helmed movies again, and the Sony-helmed movies wouldn't be able to reference stuff that happened in the Marvel-helmed movies.

    Which is what I mean when I say the Sonyverse is MCU adjacent: at any time, the two companies could part ways and cooperation could stop. Homecoming and Far From Home were Sony-helmed movies, and Keaton's Vulture is Sony-owned so if/when Marvel and Sony stop playing nice, Keaton's Vulture will still keep showing up in Sony movies. Same with J. K. Simmons' J. Jonah Jameson, references to Morbius, Mysterio, Venom, and any of the other Sony owned characters. But Happy Hogan wouldn't be coming back, nor would Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Talos, Soren, etc.

    The same goes for the MCU, and it's why we're suuuuper unlikely to see Morbius or Venom or whomever show up in a Marvel-helmed movie (nothing tied to characters they might lose). Marvel only has rights to use Spider-Man in one Marvel Studios film (and one Sony-helmed Spider-Man movie will be MCU), but unless they renegotiate again (possible, but Disney straight up buying Spider-Man for $5-10 billion seems more likely) the most that we're going to see of the Sonyverse and the MCU playing nicely is those two movies.

    So, yeah, because of all that, "Morbius is in the MCU because Vulture was in the MCU" isn't really an accurate statement. Sony owns the rights to Morbius and Vulture. Marvel doesn't. Vulture being in an MCU movie doesn't make every movie with Vulture MCU. If/when the two studios part ways again, Morbius and Vulture will continue on with setting up the Sinister Six or whatever, and Spider-Man will cease showing up in the MCU.

  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    The implication is that Marvel is loosening a bit with regards to Sony nodding to their properties, which let's be honest... Sony is never selling Spider-Man and Marvel holds all the power in their negotiations.

    So yes, the Sony films are far from MCU, but they are now allowed to hint at things Marvel would never have allowed before.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Taskmaster is first and foremost all about getting that paper. He does not give a shit about your lofty villain ideals, he just wants to get fuckin paid.

    Which is why he's the perfect foil to Deadpool. The straight-man to his loose canon. Tasky is all "God dammit wade I want to get paid" and Deadpool is all "Yeah but I just shot the client"

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  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Taskmaster is first and foremost all about getting that paper. He does not give a shit about your lofty villain ideals, he just wants to get fuckin paid.

    In support of Munkus' point I would like to submit exhibit A:
    kTEELRo.jpg

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    That's a good one.

    I think there are also panels out there of the world going to shit and Taskmaster deciding "fuck it" and going to the basement with a beer to chill out until things blow over

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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    https://www.slashfilm.com/new-mutants-original-cut/

    So here's a shocker. Not only is New Mutants actually coming out, we are getting the original director's cut. Apparently none of the reshoots the Fox producers were demanding actually happened. It was all just rumors. The version that is coming to theaters is the version they finished back in 2018. It seems that someone at Disney thought the movie finally deserved to see the light of day. After the wet fart that was Dark Phoenix, I had no hope for the movie ever seeing the inside of a theater. I was expecting New Mutants to be unceremoniously dumped to Disney+ as a way to keep subscriptions up until the other big shows get going. But here we are and the director's original vision is at least being highlighted for all to see, good or bad. I might just got see it for the spectacle even if it's bad.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    DOOM can attest to that middle bit; every time he's succeeded in his grand design(s), we've seen that actually ruling is a matter of obligation, and what truly interests and satisfies him is conquering, striving, challenging himself and proving himself better than his opponents/rivals.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    DOOM can attest to that middle bit; every time he's succeeded in his grand design(s), we've seen that actually ruling is a matter of obligation, and what truly interests and satisfies him is conquering, striving, challenging himself and proving himself better than his opponents/rivals.

    There's a story where Doom conquers the world (via using the Purple Man to mind control on a global scale) but gets so tired of all the minutia that when the Avengers manage to rally and show up to wreck his shit, Doom chooses to not activate his contingency plan and just let's them win.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    That's the main one I'm thinking of, yes.

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    DOOM can attest to that middle bit; every time he's succeeded in his grand design(s), we've seen that actually ruling is a matter of obligation, and what truly interests and satisfies him is conquering, striving, challenging himself and proving himself better than RICHARDS.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    He's had others, but none with the same longevity or intensity.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Have the heroes ever just stood down and let Doom win, on the basis that he's actually shown himself to be a pretty good ruler? Just agree to let us stop criminals and punch aliens if they invade, and we'll let you try to introduce your worldwide DOOM healthcare initiative.
    Maybe RICHARDS would have to fake his death and go into hiding so DOOM wouldn't get distracted.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Have the heroes ever just stood down and let Doom win, on the basis that he's actually shown himself to be a pretty good ruler? Just agree to let us stop criminals and punch aliens if they invade, and we'll let you try to introduce your worldwide DOOM healthcare initiative.
    Maybe RICHARDS would have to fake his death and go into hiding so DOOM wouldn't get distracted.

    On some level, that's the backstory for Hickman's Secret Wars run. It's a lot more complicated, but the retconned reality that everyone lives in is one where most of the heroes and villains have done just that.

    Moridin889Dark Raven XBobbleFencingsax
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    This reminds me of an 80’s episode of Ninja Turtles, where the turtles go to a reality or timeline where Shredder is ruler of Earth.

    Shredder is exasperated of being ruler because of how tedious all the work is and begs the turtles to save him from it.
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    Mild Confusion on
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    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
    EmperorSethLocal H JayFryRingoFencingsaxBobblekimeGiantGeek2020
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