US Immigration Policy - Step 1: 100 days of deportation moratorium

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    One focus of Biden's first 100 days is immigration reform. That means closing the concentration camps, right?

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/527470-immigration-executive-action-top-biden-preview-of-first-100-days

    Probably not in that it's likely a far longer and more complicated process then "close the camps" implies. And it's not a problem likely solvable just by yelling at Biden more.

    Shit, look at Obama's attempts to Gitmo.

    The problem with Gitmo is he needed congressional approval for funding of transferring prisoners. I don't believe the president needs authorization for any of this.

    I may be wrong, though.

    The bulk of the bullshit here was done via executive order and DHS head action. It can be undone the same way.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    One focus of Biden's first 100 days is immigration reform. That means closing the concentration camps, right?

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/527470-immigration-executive-action-top-biden-preview-of-first-100-days

    Probably not in that it's likely a far longer and more complicated process then "close the camps" implies. And it's not a problem likely solvable just by yelling at Biden more.

    Shit, look at Obama's attempts to Gitmo.

    The problem with Gitmo is he needed congressional approval for funding of transferring prisoners. I don't believe the president needs authorization for any of this.

    I may be wrong, though.

    If it’s anything but

    “Deport them” or “let them go with no support” he probably does. Federal funding to provide housing for even a short period? Probably

    He can end the policy but there will still be thousands of people who need to move to the equivalent of a halfway house and that takes money

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    One focus of Biden's first 100 days is immigration reform. That means closing the concentration camps, right?

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/527470-immigration-executive-action-top-biden-preview-of-first-100-days

    Probably not in that it's likely a far longer and more complicated process then "close the camps" implies. And it's not a problem likely solvable just by yelling at Biden more.

    Shit, look at Obama's attempts to Gitmo.

    The problem with Gitmo is he needed congressional approval for funding of transferring prisoners. I don't believe the president needs authorization for any of this.

    I may be wrong, though.

    If it’s anything but

    “Deport them” or “let them go with no support” he probably does. Federal funding to provide housing for even a short period? Probably

    He can end the policy but there will still be thousands of people who need to move to the equivalent of a halfway house and that takes money

    Yup. Which is basically exactly the same issue Gitmo had. Obama needed money to put them someplace else.

  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    The other problem is didn’t ICE and DHS almost totally ignore Obama’s orders? Particularly ones like “don’t murder” and “immigrants are people”.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    The other problem is didn’t ICE and DHS almost totally ignore Obama’s orders? Particularly ones like “don’t murder” and “immigrants are people”.

    That problem is not going to go away after 4 years of hiring psychos.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    The other problem is didn’t ICE and DHS almost totally ignore Obama’s orders? Particularly ones like “don’t murder” and “immigrants are people”.

    They were extremely openly resistant to all the Obama admins attempts to make them less outright racist and horrible to immigrants. And we're not even talking strong measures here either.

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  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    The other problem is didn’t ICE and DHS almost totally ignore Obama’s orders? Particularly ones like “don’t murder” and “immigrants are people”.

    That problem is not going to go away after 4 years of hiring psychos.

    I’m just wondering how much Biden can actually do without any help from the Legislature or the Courts. It seems like ICE may have made his only option “burn the fucker down” which I would not be opposed to, honestly.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    The other problem is didn’t ICE and DHS almost totally ignore Obama’s orders? Particularly ones like “don’t murder” and “immigrants are people”.

    That problem is not going to go away after 4 years of hiring psychos.

    I’m just wondering how much Biden can actually do without any help from the Legislature or the Courts. It seems like ICE may have made his only option “burn the fucker down” which I would not be opposed to, honestly.

    I doubt he can just close ICE down by executive order, either.

    Looking forward to hearing a lot about "Biden didn't close ICE down, did he? Both sides as bad as the other!" from the usual suspects in the future.

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Yeah the problem is, the DHS had an executive level origin, but then the legislative branch made a bill and formed it by law. So it's out of the Administration's direct hands.

    Still, that doesn't mean the administration couldn't or shouldn't talk about the problems in DHS. Like the accountability problems, or its existence.

    Edit - Specifically it existed for like a year as the OHS; Office of Homeland Security.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    The other problem is didn’t ICE and DHS almost totally ignore Obama’s orders? Particularly ones like “don’t murder” and “immigrants are people”.

    That problem is not going to go away after 4 years of hiring psychos.

    I’m just wondering how much Biden can actually do without any help from the Legislature or the Courts. It seems like ICE may have made his only option “burn the fucker down” which I would not be opposed to, honestly.

    Trump has shown that you can do a hell of a lot to subvert the functioning of the government via executive orders and malicious managers. Bury them in paperwork requirements, move their offices to the basement, buy the really bad toilet paper. Keep them the hell inside doing scutwork instead of outside hurting people.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • RingoRingo He/Him Bury me at Lone Tree DenRegistered User regular
    edited November 2020
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    The other problem is didn’t ICE and DHS almost totally ignore Obama’s orders? Particularly ones like “don’t murder” and “immigrants are people”.

    That problem is not going to go away after 4 years of hiring psychos.

    I’m just wondering how much Biden can actually do without any help from the Legislature or the Courts. It seems like ICE may have made his only option “burn the fucker down” which I would not be opposed to, honestly.

    Trump has shown that you can do a hell of a lot to subvert the functioning of the government via executive orders and malicious managers. Bury them in paperwork requirements, move their offices to the basement, buy the really bad toilet paper. Keep them the hell inside doing scutwork instead of outside hurting people.

    Institute a payroll and hiring freeze

    Then relocate every ICE position to a single office in Idaho

    And then furlough everyone who hasn't quit

    Ringo on
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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    "We are announcing a new, 21st century initiative for ICE. We have an ICE reform package before congress that will give us the funding we need, but in the mean time we have no choice to but to scale back operations. ICE is broke, and until Mitch Mcconnel holds a vote on the funding package, the situation is going to get worse.."

    - All ICE employees are put in basement, have their guns taken away, and are shown training slideshows all day every day

    any complaints can be directed to Mitch Mcconnell for "defunding ICE"

    Trump's playbook was to predict a problem, muck everything up with executive action to cause the problem, and then to blame the opposition for not solving the problem he predicted. Dems can do that too

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  • RingoRingo He/Him Bury me at Lone Tree DenRegistered User regular
    Actually, you know what? Just reassign their entire staff to digging a moat around the entire Canadian border. Anybody so keen on Trump's immigration policy should have to see it through to its logical conclusion.

    Then reallocate their entire budget to housing for detainees

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  • GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Actually, you know what? Just reassign their entire staff to digging a moat around the entire Canadian border. Anybody so keen on Trump's immigration policy should have to see it through to its logical conclusion.

    Then reallocate their entire budget to housing for detainees

    No.

    Reassign 3/4 the staff to digging a moat to stop the canadians and 1/4 to filling that moat back in to stop the canadian boats.

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  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Maintening the US-Canada border free of trees should be enough busy work, and is actually required.

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  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    Garthor wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    Actually, you know what? Just reassign their entire staff to digging a moat around the entire Canadian border. Anybody so keen on Trump's immigration policy should have to see it through to its logical conclusion.

    Then reallocate their entire budget to housing for detainees

    No.

    Reassign 3/4 the staff to digging a moat to stop the canadians and 1/4 to filling that moat back in to stop the canadian boats.

    Please no. There is some incredible wilderness land along that border and we’ve already fucked up the southern one.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Tynnan wrote: »
    Garthor wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    Actually, you know what? Just reassign their entire staff to digging a moat around the entire Canadian border. Anybody so keen on Trump's immigration policy should have to see it through to its logical conclusion.

    Then reallocate their entire budget to housing for detainees

    No.

    Reassign 3/4 the staff to digging a moat to stop the canadians and 1/4 to filling that moat back in to stop the canadian boats.

    Please no. There is some incredible wilderness land along that border and we’ve already fucked up the southern one.

    I'm pretty sure none of these proposals are actually serious.

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  • RingoRingo He/Him Bury me at Lone Tree DenRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Tynnan wrote: »
    Garthor wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    Actually, you know what? Just reassign their entire staff to digging a moat around the entire Canadian border. Anybody so keen on Trump's immigration policy should have to see it through to its logical conclusion.

    Then reallocate their entire budget to housing for detainees

    No.

    Reassign 3/4 the staff to digging a moat to stop the canadians and 1/4 to filling that moat back in to stop the canadian boats.

    Please no. There is some incredible wilderness land along that border and we’ve already fucked up the southern one.

    I'm pretty sure none of these proposals are actually serious.

    I was serious about putting them in Idaho

    Sorry Idaho

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/daca-restored-dreamers/2020/12/04/37254908-367a-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html

    DACA is back on, meanwhile Trump is attempting to get as much of his shitty wall up as possible.

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    It's not over yet to be clear. From the article,
    But the immigrants known as “dreamers” are not necessarily in the clear. Attorneys general in Texas and other states have asked a federal judge to declare DACA unlawful and to provide for an orderly wind down of it. A hearing in that case is scheduled for later this month.

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  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    It seems that some lawyers in ICE were attempting to follow judicial orders but ran face first into the rest of the administration.

    From Buzzfeed.
    Buzzfeed wrote:
    Later that afternoon, Lynch said, the personnel were told by ICE officials in Washington, DC, that Homeland Security had determined the children should not be brought back on the flight returning to the US.

    ICE officials maintained that they would never ignore a court order.

    “The implication that [ICE] would knowingly disregard a judge’s order is completely false,” said Danielle Bennett, an agency spokesperson, in an email. “While ICE is a large, complex law enforcement agency with a multi-faceted mission and personnel stationed at hundreds of locations throughout the world, agency personnel work diligently to uphold the rule of law, which includes enforcement of and compliance with binding court orders.”

    Sarah Pierce, an analyst at the Migration Policy Institute, said the emails are another indication that the administration was determined to turn away immigrants at “any possible step.”

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  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    It seems that some lawyers in ICE were attempting to follow judicial orders but ran face first into the rest of the administration.

    From Buzzfeed.
    Buzzfeed wrote:
    Later that afternoon, Lynch said, the personnel were told by ICE officials in Washington, DC, that Homeland Security had determined the children should not be brought back on the flight returning to the US.

    ICE officials maintained that they would never ignore a court order.

    “The implication that [ICE] would knowingly disregard a judge’s order is completely false,” said Danielle Bennett, an agency spokesperson, in an email. “While ICE is a large, complex law enforcement agency with a multi-faceted mission and personnel stationed at hundreds of locations throughout the world, agency personnel work diligently to uphold the rule of law, which includes enforcement of and compliance with binding court orders.”

    Sarah Pierce, an analyst at the Migration Policy Institute, said the emails are another indication that the administration was determined to turn away immigrants at “any possible step.”

    I think this is important context because it's not the massive bureaucracy that caused them to let the kids get off the plane:
    The ICE lawyer, Adam Loiacono, sent the email in response to a request for advice on how to handle the group considering the judge’s order.

    “Plane just landed in Guatemala. Need to know STAT because once we take them off the plane, they are essentially turned over to Guatemala officials. Please advise soonest,” wrote a lead official overseeing ICE deportation flights.

    Loiacono wrote back soon after, saying he believed that the children should have stayed on the plane and been returned to the US.

    They asked, legal weighed in, they ignored legal and violated a judges order.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Why would they listen to a judge, when they won't face any consequences if they just do whatever the fuck they feel like?

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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Why would they listen to a judge, when they won't face any consequences if they just do whatever the fuck they feel like?

    The judge has made his decision, now let him enforce it!

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    Time for me to get pissed off.
    Congress will approve $1.375 billion for a wall along the southern border as part of the $1.4 trillion omnibus spending bill for the next fiscal year, according to GOP sources.

    Congress is expected to pass the measure on Monday along with a $900 billion COVID-19 relief bill. The White House signaled Sunday evening that President Trump would sign it.

    Trump had previously given conflicting signals on whether he'd support the massive package, which congressional leaders in both parties backed on Sunday. The money for the border wall, which matches the funding included last year for Trump's signature issue, could represent another reason for Trump to sign the bill.

    Funding for the wall has been a regular sticking point in annual spending bills, and led to the nation's longest government shutdown in December 2018.

    Budget law requires the government to spend appropriated funds, but it is unclear whether President-elect Joe Biden will seek a way to circumvent the law or whether Congress would take action to enforce the law.

    The funding for the wall in this measure would continue after Trump leaves office.
    Our political parties are both fucking poison and full of bigots & military isolationists. Fuck. Off. Forever.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Keep in mind the Covid spending is 900x the wall budget, and the wall work is something that can be delayed or canceled if Dems get power.

    It's bad, but a) it's fixable depending on how GA goes, and b) this is super not a "both parties suck" situation

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    Trying to insist that there aren't isolationist or racially bigoted people within Democratic Party ranks is foolish. Yes that's open advertising what the GOP is about but Democrats don't turn those types of people away either.

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  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    But that's not what kime said?

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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Trying to insist that there aren't isolationist or racially bigoted people within Democratic Party ranks is foolish. Yes that's open advertising what the GOP is about but Democrats don't turn those types of people away either.

    Good thing no one is doing that!

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    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    But that's not what kime said?
    It is by extension of "this is not a 'both parties suck' situation." When we're in a two party system and both have members willing to vote on terrible things like this, both parties get to have responsibility and blame.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Your choices are not fund wall or not. They are "keep the government running until January 20 in the middle of a pandemic and give .1% of the budget to fund the wall" or not. Because this is a high priority thing for the fascists who currently hold 2/3 of the relevant decision making bodies.

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    I wonder if I'll ever know what it's like to tell people who belong to marginalized groups, "you have to take the bigotry you get because that's just how our system works."

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder if I'll ever know what it's like to tell people who belong to marginalized groups, "you have to take the bigotry you get because that's just how our system works."

    The last shutdown you basically got to do this! When the poor suffered because the Dems made an ideological stand against funding the wall.

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder if I'll ever know what it's like to tell people who belong to marginalized groups, "you have to take the bigotry you get because that's just how our system works."

    The last shutdown you basically got to do this! When the poor suffered because the Dems made an ideological stand against funding the wall.
    You may have not noticed, probably because I'm guessing you don't live in the poverty line, but the suffering was going on before and after the stand and is still going on today. Don't try to leverage my situation in America against me or tell me what the causes are and are not, as if I'm stupid.

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  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Henroid wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder if I'll ever know what it's like to tell people who belong to marginalized groups, "you have to take the bigotry you get because that's just how our system works."

    The last shutdown you basically got to do this! When the poor suffered because the Dems made an ideological stand against funding the wall.
    You may have not noticed, probably because I'm guessing you don't live in the poverty line, but the suffering was going on before and after the stand and is still going on today. Don't try to leverage my situation in America against me or tell me what the causes are and are not, as if I'm stupid.

    Nobody thinks you're stupid, nobody's treating you like you're stupid. What are you trying to accomplish here?

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder if I'll ever know what it's like to tell people who belong to marginalized groups, "you have to take the bigotry you get because that's just how our system works."

    Look I get that you're the only righteous person in the thread, but let's try and move past how cool you are for a second.

    Curious, do you think another shutdown would be the way forward? As in, shut down the government until there is no wall funding (which will be weeks if the Dems get the Senate, months? otherwise)? Do you think that would help more people?

    I am skeptical, but dunno if you think otherwise.

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder if I'll ever know what it's like to tell people who belong to marginalized groups, "you have to take the bigotry you get because that's just how our system works."

    Look I get that you're the only righteous person in the thread, but let's try and move past how cool you are for a second.

    Curious, do you think another shutdown would be the way forward? As in, shut down the government until there is no wall funding (which will be weeks if the Dems get the Senate, months? otherwise)? Do you think that would help more people?

    I am skeptical, but dunno if you think otherwise.
    How exactly would a government shutdown affect my situation? A situation that is already fucked?

    Oh, do you mean things like the one-time $600 that wouldn't actually save me from this situation? Or anyone else for that matter with their own?

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  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Henroid wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder if I'll ever know what it's like to tell people who belong to marginalized groups, "you have to take the bigotry you get because that's just how our system works."

    Look I get that you're the only righteous person in the thread, but let's try and move past how cool you are for a second.

    Curious, do you think another shutdown would be the way forward? As in, shut down the government until there is no wall funding (which will be weeks if the Dems get the Senate, months? otherwise)? Do you think that would help more people?

    I am skeptical, but dunno if you think otherwise.
    How exactly would a government shutdown affect my situation? A situation that is already fucked?

    Oh, do you mean things like the one-time $600 that wouldn't actually save me from this situation? Or anyone else for that matter with their own?

    So, are you advocating against the compromise, and in favor of not only no relief of any kind, pathetic or otherwise, but also a government shutdown on top of that?

    Because to me that feels accelerationist.

    Also please please understand I'm not assigning any value here, I'm not judging your position, I'm trying to make sure I know your position (and I think others are as well).

    Tox on
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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder if I'll ever know what it's like to tell people who belong to marginalized groups, "you have to take the bigotry you get because that's just how our system works."

    Look I get that you're the only righteous person in the thread, but let's try and move past how cool you are for a second.

    Curious, do you think another shutdown would be the way forward? As in, shut down the government until there is no wall funding (which will be weeks if the Dems get the Senate, months? otherwise)? Do you think that would help more people?

    I am skeptical, but dunno if you think otherwise.
    How exactly would a government shutdown affect my situation? A situation that is already fucked?

    Oh, do you mean things like the one-time $600 that wouldn't actually save me from this situation? Or anyone else for that matter with their own?

    So... is that a yes? You think they should have shut down the government for weeks/months? Just like, answer the question or don't respond, don't reply and then dodge it :P

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Henroid wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder if I'll ever know what it's like to tell people who belong to marginalized groups, "you have to take the bigotry you get because that's just how our system works."

    Look I get that you're the only righteous person in the thread, but let's try and move past how cool you are for a second.

    Curious, do you think another shutdown would be the way forward? As in, shut down the government until there is no wall funding (which will be weeks if the Dems get the Senate, months? otherwise)? Do you think that would help more people?

    I am skeptical, but dunno if you think otherwise.
    How exactly would a government shutdown affect my situation? A situation that is already fucked?

    Oh, do you mean things like the one-time $600 that wouldn't actually save me from this situation? Or anyone else for that matter with their own?

    "I'm fucked either way so fuck everyone else too"?

    I can't possibly be understanding you correctly... right?

    edit: as in, that's how your post reads and I am genuinely taken aback, so I hope I'm reading it wrong

    Calica on
    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
    Kamar
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