US Immigration Policy - ICE engages in literal genocide via hysterectomies

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    If the goal is sterilization, why hysterectomies when salpingectomies are faster and less invasive?

    Not that that would be better, obviously :bigfrown: It just strikes me as weird.

    IANAD, so I don't know the answer, but maybe it be that the former has more/easier medical justifications behind it? The discussion earlier talked about hysterectomies having reasons beyond sterilization for it's implementation (cancer prevention/treatment), and that the sterilization was a side effect of that.

    ie, they're still playing the "plausible deniability" game still, rather than outright Jessoping this with a "Damn right we're sterilizing these people".

    Some conservatives still show discomfort to the full fascist ideaology, so if they can be given cover that, in this case, "they're performing a legitimate medical procedure, for the sake of the patient, the sterilization is an unfortunate side effect", then that gives them the fig leaf they need to suppress their conscience until they can finally kill it.

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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    If the goal is sterilization, why hysterectomies when salpingectomies are faster and less invasive?

    Not that that would be better, obviously :bigfrown: It just strikes me as weird.

    IANAD, so I don't know the answer, but maybe it be that the former has more/easier medical justifications behind it? The discussion earlier talked about hysterectomies having reasons beyond sterilization for it's implementation (cancer prevention/treatment), and that the sterilization was a side effect of that.

    ie, they're still playing the "plausible deniability" game still, rather than outright Jessoping this with a "Damn right we're sterilizing these people".

    Some conservatives still show discomfort to the full fascist ideaology, so if they can be given cover that, in this case, "they're performing a legitimate medical procedure, for the sake of the patient, the sterilization is an unfortunate side effect", then that gives them the fig leaf they need to suppress their conscience until they can finally kill it.

    I'm pretty sure that's bullshit, but then again it's the kind of bullshit old white conservatives are likely to believe, so :sad:

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    A US magazine has apparently named the doctor. Not linking it because there's also apparently a second doctor in New York with the same name.


    Also, the original job description was found.

    Apparently qualifications or certifications weren't important, but he needed "philosophical loyalty"

    And got 400k for it

    https://www.npr.org/2019/07/22/744206063/job-posting-for-doctor-at-an-immigrant-detention-facility-catches-peoples-attent

    Why is this supposed to be the job listing? The NPR article here, from last year, says the job is in rural Louisiana. The whistleblower report is about a facility in Georgia. Am I missing something that says they are the same?

  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    If the goal is sterilization, why hysterectomies when salpingectomies are faster and less invasive?

    Not that that would be better, obviously :bigfrown: It just strikes me as weird.

    Sing it with me now, :whistle: the cruelty is the poiiiiiiiiint! :whistle:

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    If the goal is sterilization, why hysterectomies when salpingectomies are faster and less invasive?

    Not that that would be better, obviously :bigfrown: It just strikes me as weird.

    IANAD, so I don't know the answer, but maybe it be that the former has more/easier medical justifications behind it? The discussion earlier talked about hysterectomies having reasons beyond sterilization for it's implementation (cancer prevention/treatment), and that the sterilization was a side effect of that.

    ie, they're still playing the "plausible deniability" game still, rather than outright Jessoping this with a "Damn right we're sterilizing these people".

    Some conservatives still show discomfort to the full fascist ideaology, so if they can be given cover that, in this case, "they're performing a legitimate medical procedure, for the sake of the patient, the sterilization is an unfortunate side effect", then that gives them the fig leaf they need to suppress their conscience until they can finally kill it.

    This is probably it, there are a lot of legitimate medical reasons someone might do a hysterectomy, salpingectomies are only medically indicated in ectopic pregnancies or cancer of the tube itself, both pretty rare conditions.

    Like if you had a population of 100 women and said there were 10 ectopic pregnancies in that population that would throw up some serious alarm bells that would probably get immediately investigated, wheras 10 cases of severe endometriosis or ovarian cysts wouldn’t raise much of an eyebrow.

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  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    Because the cruelty is the point. They want it to be invasive.

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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    Yeah it's not a matter of being efficient, it's that they want to actively punish so that it serves as a "deterrent" to future "criminals." Which is doubly fucked up because this was supposed to be a secret.

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Could be that they were having trouble finding anyone willing to just go full on "fuck my oath, doin' harm erryday without even a thin veil of plausible deniability, oh yeah!"

    Cruelty for cruelty's sake is definitely on brand for this admin, but with them attempting (and failing) to keep it a secret, it seems more likely (to me) to be a factor in getting someone willing to do the work, and perhaps a hint of self awareness that everyone in the chain could get in some hot water if Trump doesn't get another 4 years of genocid'in on.

    (yes yes, nobody will be punished, eat at Arby's, etc, etc, even cruel fuckers can be self aware enough to want to cover their asses enough to possibly avoid actual ramifications on the off chance that some show up on a blue moon)

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  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Calica wrote: »
    If the goal is sterilization, why hysterectomies when salpingectomies are faster and less invasive?

    Not that that would be better, obviously :bigfrown: It just strikes me as weird.

    I can see three reasons.

    a. There are basically three reasons to perform a salpingectomy.
    1. Cancer
    2. Ectopic pregnancy
    3. Sterilization

    In both case 1 and 2 the team performing the surgery might start asking questions if perfectly healthy tissue is removed (and there is no indications of either condition). Hysterectomies on the other hand is the "treatment of last resort" for a very wide range of conditions.

    b. Being invasive is probably the point. This is a group of people that are powertripping and getting off on tormenting people. Because it's definitely a group of people. You can't do a sociopathic act like this without the direct or indirect (ie, blind eye) support of guards and administration.

    c. While a salpingectomy prevents natural fertilization, IVF is still possible. The guy responsible wanted certain, and unrepairable, sterility.

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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    I don't know how reliably a source Democracy Now! is (though I see their name often enough), but:
    UPDATE: Pauline Binam's deportation has been halted, supporters say. Binam, who has lived in the U.S. since age 2, says she was involuntarily sterilized while in ICE custody and was set to be deported to Cameroon today after her story became widely publicized.
    Running a search on her name doesn't bring up anything from any outlet like MSNBC tier and such. If this info is true, it goes to show that awareness alone DOES have some sort of usefulness. Bigots like to operate in the dark as much as possible and ICE is no exception.

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  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    And apparently hysterectomies is just the sterilization surgery that has gotten the most attention.
    At least those campaigning for Pauline Binams rights claim that she was sterlized through...a salpingectomy.

    So the answer to the "Why didn't they do [horrifying thing X] instead" question is in 2020 "Oh they did that too".

    @Calica

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I don't know how reliably a source Democracy Now! is (though I see their name often enough), but:
    UPDATE: Pauline Binam's deportation has been halted, supporters say. Binam, who has lived in the U.S. since age 2, says she was involuntarily sterilized while in ICE custody and was set to be deported to Cameroon today after her story became widely publicized.
    Running a search on her name doesn't bring up anything from any outlet like MSNBC tier and such. If this info is true, it goes to show that awareness alone DOES have some sort of usefulness. Bigots like to operate in the dark as much as possible and ICE is no exception.

    Does spanish language nbc news (via telemundo) count?

    Because:

    https://www.telemundo.com/noticias/noticias-telemundo/inmigracion/ice-busca-deportar-una-migrante-que-fue-esterilizada-sin-su-consentimiento-activistas-tmna3834833

  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    Not only does it count but it quadruple counts given what thread we're in. Thank you.

    God I wish my family taught me Spanish so I could actually run through some foreign news sites for citation purposes.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    If the goal is sterilization, why hysterectomies when salpingectomies are faster and less invasive?

    Not that that would be better, obviously :bigfrown: It just strikes me as weird.

    IANAD, so I don't know the answer, but maybe it be that the former has more/easier medical justifications behind it? The discussion earlier talked about hysterectomies having reasons beyond sterilization for it's implementation (cancer prevention/treatment), and that the sterilization was a side effect of that.

    ie, they're still playing the "plausible deniability" game still, rather than outright Jessoping this with a "Damn right we're sterilizing these people".

    Some conservatives still show discomfort to the full fascist ideaology, so if they can be given cover that, in this case, "they're performing a legitimate medical procedure, for the sake of the patient, the sterilization is an unfortunate side effect", then that gives them the fig leaf they need to suppress their conscience until they can finally kill it.

    This is probably it, there are a lot of legitimate medical reasons someone might do a hysterectomy, salpingectomies are only medically indicated in ectopic pregnancies or cancer of the tube itself, both pretty rare conditions.

    Like if you had a population of 100 women and said there were 10 ectopic pregnancies in that population that would throw up some serious alarm bells that would probably get immediately investigated, wheras 10 cases of severe endometriosis or ovarian cysts wouldn’t raise much of an eyebrow.

    Yeah, as far as I understand it hysterectomies can be done for a lot of reasons which is why there are so many unnecessary ones done in the US. It's technically a valid treatment for a bunch of things, even if there's a bunch of cases where you should have done something else or tried something else first. It's the kind of thing you could send someone out to get and individually it wouldn't look out of place. It's only at the aggregate level that someone might start going "They are really doing a lot of these" and raise some red flags.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Not only does it count but it quadruple counts given what thread we're in. Thank you.

    God I wish my family taught me Spanish so I could actually run through some foreign news sites for citation purposes.

    I do find it... Interesting... that this story has been taken up by foreign and spanish language sites (dailymirror.uk, bbc, telemundo) but no mainstream US news sites have taken it up yet.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Not only does it count but it quadruple counts given what thread we're in. Thank you.

    God I wish my family taught me Spanish so I could actually run through some foreign news sites for citation purposes.

    I do find it... Interesting... that this story has been taken up by foreign and spanish language sites (dailymirror.uk, bbc, telemundo) but no mainstream US news sites have taken it up yet.

    I'm seeing nothing on any english language sites. US-based or international. There's basically nothing about Pauline Binam period in google except for a smattering of random pages about her deportation that don't link back to anything major or minor. The DemocracyNow link is literally the only news or news-like link I can find on the subject.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Not just the Pauline Binam aspect but the hysterectomy story in general. What I have actually seen on mainstream US news sites has generally been very soft-balled if mentioned at all compared to the equivalent British sites.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Not only does it count but it quadruple counts given what thread we're in. Thank you.

    God I wish my family taught me Spanish so I could actually run through some foreign news sites for citation purposes.

    I feel like it kinda doesn't count? I feel like this should be news spread everywhere in the US, and by far most people here speak English. It's good that this news is being reported in Spanish from a cultural standpoint, sure, but it also means that most media doesn't consider it newsworthy. Which is bad, imo.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Not just the Pauline Binam aspect but the hysterectomy story in general. What I have actually seen on mainstream US news sites has generally been very soft-balled if mentioned at all compared to the equivalent British sites.

    I can find articles from what looks like every major source in the US on the ICE hysterectomies story. It's all over the place and there's articles about it various reactions to it as well. They are absolutely covering the story as far as I can see. It's only Pauline Binam who gets zero mentions anywhere on google that I can find.

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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    IANAD. I do work in surgery.

    Hysterectomies don't take very long. They're relatively common procedures and there are a lot of reasons to have one that have nothing to do with family planning. People of all ages get hysterectomies and unlike a salpingo-oophorectomy you don't run in to issues with hormone replacement therapy, which I'm sure the government wouldn't want to provide to an "illegal" person they're trying to sterilize and then throw out of the country. People try to preserve ovaries because of all the things that go along with menopause and so perhaps they can try a surrogate someday.

    You can diagnose plenty of conditions for which one of the answers would be hysterectomy without raising much alarm. Heavy periods, endometriosis, lower back pain, prolapse, pelvic inflammatory disease(PID), uncontrollable bleeding after a miscarriage or birth.

    This is a crime. The physician should be in The Hague tomorrow shitting themselves because justice for genocide is 30 years in a box.

    Edit: I'll grant the nurse, anesthesia provider and surgical technologist a little bit of leniency because they don't diagnose anything and are there specifically to facilitate a safe surgery with the best outcome for the patient - but they should definitely be interviewed about the conduct of the surgeon. Sketchy awful surgeons don't just become sketchy and awful one day after being upstanding for years.

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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Not just the Pauline Binam aspect but the hysterectomy story in general. What I have actually seen on mainstream US news sites has generally been very soft-balled if mentioned at all compared to the equivalent British sites.

    I can find articles from what looks like every major source in the US on the ICE hysterectomies story. It's all over the place and there's articles about it various reactions to it as well. They are absolutely covering the story as far as I can see. It's only Pauline Binam who gets zero mentions anywhere on google that I can find.

    We’re about a day ahead of the mainstream news on this story. Binam was mentioned this morning on NPR

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Not just the Pauline Binam aspect but the hysterectomy story in general. What I have actually seen on mainstream US news sites has generally been very soft-balled if mentioned at all compared to the equivalent British sites.

    I can find articles from what looks like every major source in the US on the ICE hysterectomies story. It's all over the place and there's articles about it various reactions to it as well. They are absolutely covering the story as far as I can see. It's only Pauline Binam who gets zero mentions anywhere on google that I can find.

    It may just be my luck, I saw it front page on bbc and actually in some random news aggregator thing from DailyMirror (with the usual tabloid headline capitals). While the big us sites didn’t seem to frontpage it and seemed to avoid putting the meat of the story in the headlines or first few paragraphs, generally having a more generic “medical neglect and mistreatment” bent to them.

  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    edited September 17
    Elldren wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Not just the Pauline Binam aspect but the hysterectomy story in general. What I have actually seen on mainstream US news sites has generally been very soft-balled if mentioned at all compared to the equivalent British sites.

    I can find articles from what looks like every major source in the US on the ICE hysterectomies story. It's all over the place and there's articles about it various reactions to it as well. They are absolutely covering the story as far as I can see. It's only Pauline Binam who gets zero mentions anywhere on google that I can find.

    We’re about a day ahead of the mainstream news on this story. Binam was mentioned this morning on NPR

    Why? I know MSM is often burn-it-to-the-ground awful, but I want to know why this story in particular was delayed? It may not be front page news but it absolutely worth it's own page online.

    EDIT: I ask this specifically in relation to immigration policy, not as a general media question.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Not just the Pauline Binam aspect but the hysterectomy story in general. What I have actually seen on mainstream US news sites has generally been very soft-balled if mentioned at all compared to the equivalent British sites.

    I can find articles from what looks like every major source in the US on the ICE hysterectomies story. It's all over the place and there's articles about it various reactions to it as well. They are absolutely covering the story as far as I can see. It's only Pauline Binam who gets zero mentions anywhere on google that I can find.

    We’re about a day ahead of the mainstream news on this story. Binam was mentioned this morning on NPR

    Why? I know MSM is often burn-it-to-the-ground awful, but I want to know why this story in particular was delayed? It may not be front page news but it absolutely worth it's own page online.

    EDIT: I ask this specifically in relation to immigration policy, not as a general media question.

    Presumably because they had to have someone find out about what was going on. I'm only seeing an NPR story and it's ~12 hours behind when DemocracyNow reported on the situation. And includes later details about the situation. And given there was basically nothing anywhere about Binam before that point that I could find, they probably first heard about it the way we did.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/913698689/ice-almost-deported-immigrant-woman-who-says-she-got-unwanted-surgery-while-deta
    As explosive allegations were coming to light about immigrant women who say they've been subjected to unwanted hysterectomies and other gynecological procedures, one of those detainees was put on a plane back to her home country.

    Pauline Binam was nearly deported Wednesday by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement to Cameroon, a country she left when she was 2 years old. Binam, now 30, was on the tarmac when members of Congress say they intervened.

    So my best guess would be the story blows up on social media, NPR tells someone to look into it and then the story gets delayed a bit to include her not getting deported. At which point it gets printed up last night and sent out with Morning Edition this morning.

    Still no other outlets covering it that I can see. That might take till later today but who knows.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    Some additional details at least about this specific situation from the NPR story:
    Binam's lawyer, Vân Huynh, says her client sought treatment for an irregular menstrual cycle and thought she was getting a routine procedure known as dilation and curettage to remove tissue from her uterus last year.

    "When she woke up from the surgery, the doctor informed her that they had to remove one of her fallopian tubes," says Huynh, with the non-profit Georgia Latino Alliance for Human Rights, which also helped prepare the whistleblower complaint.

    "Of course, Pauline was very upset and sort of appalled that this had happened without her consent," Huynh says.

    The long-term medical implications are not clear, but that the procedure could prevent Binam from conceiving a child, Huynh says.

    Which gives an example of how this can play out. But also they only removed one of the fallopian tubes which at least, from my understanding, would not prevent her from having children. (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/female-infertility/expert-answers/pregnancy/faq-20058418) Which would make this a poor attempt at sterilization in a way that would be very obvious to the doctors doing the surgery.

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    So it could just be a case of the government hiring a complete sociopath who was trying to scam the government by performing unnecessary surgeries without consent on prisoners who have not actually been adjudicated guilty of any crime and the government not actually having any oversight at all to prevent this?

    Jealous Deva on
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Consent is a thing that hospital systems care about at least as much as the surgeon. "The Consent" is an actual signed document. It's not a verbal agreement or understanding the way we use the word in normal life.

    It's also always an informed consent. You cannot consent to something without having it first explained.

    Depending on what the paperwork shows for time/date/consented procedures there might not be a way to prove otherwise.

    It's important they interview and investigate.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Not just the Pauline Binam aspect but the hysterectomy story in general. What I have actually seen on mainstream US news sites has generally been very soft-balled if mentioned at all compared to the equivalent British sites.

    I can find articles from what looks like every major source in the US on the ICE hysterectomies story. It's all over the place and there's articles about it various reactions to it as well. They are absolutely covering the story as far as I can see. It's only Pauline Binam who gets zero mentions anywhere on google that I can find.

    We’re about a day ahead of the mainstream news on this story. Binam was mentioned this morning on NPR

    Why? I know MSM is often burn-it-to-the-ground awful, but I want to know why this story in particular was delayed? It may not be front page news but it absolutely worth it's own page online.

    EDIT: I ask this specifically in relation to immigration policy, not as a general media question.

    Presumably because they had to have someone find out about what was going on. I'm only seeing an NPR story and it's ~12 hours behind when DemocracyNow reported on the situation. And includes later details about the situation. And given there was basically nothing anywhere about Binam before that point that I could find, they probably first heard about it the way we did.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/913698689/ice-almost-deported-immigrant-woman-who-says-she-got-unwanted-surgery-while-deta
    As explosive allegations were coming to light about immigrant women who say they've been subjected to unwanted hysterectomies and other gynecological procedures, one of those detainees was put on a plane back to her home country.

    Pauline Binam was nearly deported Wednesday by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement to Cameroon, a country she left when she was 2 years old. Binam, now 30, was on the tarmac when members of Congress say they intervened.

    So my best guess would be the story blows up on social media, NPR tells someone to look into it and then the story gets delayed a bit to include her not getting deported. At which point it gets printed up last night and sent out with Morning Edition this morning.

    Still no other outlets covering it that I can see. That might take till later today but who knows.

    The story first broke with the only source being the nurse that filed the whistle-blower complaint. Generally a story this explosive would warrant more than one source.

    We are getting NPR coverage now because several potential victims have come forward the last few days corroborating the accusations.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Just.... why would any not-racist person want to deport someone from the US who is 30 and has lived here since they were 2?

    Sigh

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Just.... why would any not-racist person want to deport someone from the US who is 30 and has lived here since they were 2?

    Sigh

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Just.... why would any not-racist person want to deport someone from the US who is 30 and has lived here since they were 2?

    Sigh

    It's not racist if the person is brown

    what

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I was discussing matters with my coworker and he agreed that illegally sterilizing migrants is bad, but only because they're trying to hide it, it should be done openly and universally if "They want to consume our resources" and now I want to flip my desk and go home

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    I was discussing matters with my coworker and he agreed that illegally sterilizing migrants is bad, but only because they're trying to hide it, it should be done openly and universally if "They want to consume our resources" and now I want to flip my desk and go home

    Fuck OFF

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    "If we let them just take our country who's left? China? like that's better for the world"

    it's a good thing he left the room when he did because otherwise good chance i wouldnt have a job

    I'm red with fuckin anger over, this dipshit's parents were immigrants!

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I don't suppose your HR would care about that?

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Not only does it count but it quadruple counts given what thread we're in. Thank you.

    God I wish my family taught me Spanish so I could actually run through some foreign news sites for citation purposes.

    I do find it... Interesting... that this story has been taken up by foreign and spanish language sites (dailymirror.uk, bbc, telemundo) but no mainstream US news sites have taken it up yet.

    I'm straight up pissed. My mom and dad need to see this shit on the national news to be aware of it. I wouldn't be surprised if they think ice is doing a good job and only rounding up the bad hombres, as Trump puts it.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Just.... why would any not-racist person want to deport someone from the US who is 30 and has lived here since they were 2?

    Sigh

    Immigration enforcement has become about being cruel as a message. When CPB manages to find migrants crossing illegally they don't just detain them. They confiscate everything they have on them, cut it to pieces with a knife, throw it on the ground, and then urinate on it or desecrate it in some other fashion. They are trying to make their experience as miserable as possible so that they don't continue trying to cross.

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  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    I was discussing matters with my coworker and he agreed that illegally sterilizing migrants is bad, but only because they're trying to hide it, it should be done openly and universally if "They want to consume our resources" and now I want to flip my desk and go home

    Don't talk politics at work. Nothing good comes from it.

    If a movement doesn't have someone that can sit down opposite those in a position of power and strike a deal, how can that movement achieve success?
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    https://www.npr.org/sections/live-coverage-threats-to-the-homeland-hearing/2020/09/17/913926695/without-dhs-witnesses-in-hearing-whistleblower-claims-likely-go-unaddressed?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr
    The empty chair at the House Homeland Security Committee on Thursday can't answer members' questions about the recent goings-on within the Department of Homeland Security.

    Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf rejected a subpoena to appear, but DHS says acting Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli was prepped in his place.

    Majority Democrats on the committee suggested Thursday that the move was an attempt to shield department leadership from facing difficult problems within the sprawling department.

    The House held a hearing today to address, at least in part, this issue. HHS Secretary just refused to show.

  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    I was discussing matters with my coworker and he agreed that illegally sterilizing migrants is bad, but only because they're trying to hide it, it should be done openly and universally if "They want to consume our resources" and now I want to flip my desk and go home

    Don't talk politics at work. Nothing good comes from it.

    That's part of what led to my mental breakdown. Wasn't me talking politics, just working with a couple of Alex jones listening right wing nut heads and hearing them talk. I was a frothing , seething in rage like a dog, but I just smiled.

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