US Immigration Policy - ICE engages in literal genocide via hysterectomies

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    You know, it's darkly amusing to see that some of y'all who worked in awful places in 2018 and 2016 still work there now (or I guess new and exciting places filled with awful people).

    If HR didn't give a shit when you were pulling your hair out a half decade ago, I guess they probably won't now either.

    Don't get me wrong, I get that venting can be cathartic.

    It's more of a "the more things change, the more they stay the same" kind of vibe. A hint of shitstalgia.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Just.... why would any not-racist person want to deport someone from the US who is 30 and has lived here since they were 2?

    Sigh

    Because they're criminals.
    Or at least that's the excuse they use here to deport kiwis in the same situation from Aus.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 24
    The Trump administration continues to be full of racist fuckers.

    Policy Counsel at @immcouncil. Formerly immigration lawyer at @LegalAidNYC through @IJCorps .

    Student visa would be limited to 2 years for:

    *Natives or citizens of countries on the State Sponsor of Terrorism List (Iran, Syria, Sudan, PRK)
    *Citizens of countries with >10% overstay rate
    *Unaccredited school
    *School that doesn't use E-Verify
    Under DHS's new proposal, citizens or people born in the following countries would be banned from getting student visas longer than 2 years:

    - Afghanistan
    - Benin
    - Bhutan
    - Burkina Faso
    - Burundi
    - Cameroon
    - Central African Republic
    - Chad
    - Congo (DRC)
    - Congo (ROC)
    Citizens or people born in countries that would be banned from student visas lasting over 2 years:

    - Côte d'Ivoire
    - Djibouti
    - Equatorial Guinea
    - Eritrea
    - Ethiopia
    - Gabon
    - The Gambia
    - Ghana
    - Guinea
    - Guinea-Bissau
    - Guyana
    - Haiti
    - Iran
    - Iraq
    - Kenya
    - Kosovo

    /cont'd
    Citizens or people born in countries that would be banned from student visas lasting over 2 years:

    - Kyrgyzstan
    - Liberia
    - Libya
    - Malawi
    - Mali
    - Mauritania
    - Moldova
    - Mongolia
    - Nepal
    - Niger
    - Nigeria
    - North Korea
    - Papua New Guinea
    - Philippines
    - Rwanda
    - Samoa

    /cont'd
    Citizens or people born in countries that would be banned from student visas lasting over 2 years:

    - Senegal
    - Sierra Leone
    - Somalia
    - South Sudan
    - Sudan
    - Syria
    - Tajikistan
    - Tanzania
    - Togo
    - Tonga
    - Turmenistan
    - Tuvalu
    - Uganda
    - Uzbekistan
    - Vietnam
    - Yemen
    - Zambia
    Most of those countries would be subject to restrictions because of the "10% visa overstay" threshold.

    Here's an example of how that creates absurd results. In 2019, five students from Tuvalu departed the US on time, and one didn't.

    That one person put the overstay rate at 17%.

    It doesn't even matter where you grew up. If you were born there, fuck you.

    Couscous on
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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    Literally saying "fuck you, you don't get an education here"

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Literally saying "fuck you, you don't get an education here"

    Not sure if it applies in the US as much as it does here in Australia, but a good portion of university costs are subsidized/mitigated by foreign students paying full rate.

    JragghenSpecial K
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Literally saying "fuck you, you don't get an education here"

    Not sure if it applies in the US as much as it does here in Australia, but a good portion of university costs are subsidized/mitigated by foreign students paying full rate.

    Oh they are for sure charged a lot.

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  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    Just to push back on, “Don’t talk politics at work,” a bit:

    Sometimes the loudest people in your workplace are not representative of the dominant mindset. Sometimes others like you are frustrated and appalled, but don’t feel capable of speaking up for a variety of reasons. Often, one person speaking against the loudest people cracks open a dam of dissent.

    If nothing else, I do think there’s some value in expressing opposition so that potential allies know they aren’t alone. It’s probably safer for your career to stay quiet, but you do risk missing out on potential partnerships for change.

    Caveat: Everybody knows their own workplace best, and their capacity for risk. But there are risks in silence as well.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited September 24
    I became known as "the guy who knows a lot about politics and will totally talk about it, but doesn't get in peoples' faces about it and will attempt to give you an honest answer about how he thinks, given your particular situation and views, it would make sense to look into" in my workplace. Like, folks would ask me who they should look into in the Democratic primary, and I know enough about them to generally be able to point them in the direction of the 3-4 people closest to their views, without underhandedly pushing my own aside from saying who I'm supporting. In 2016, it was the same with Republicans.

    I've ended up having two different managers who ended up asking me about current events and stuff because they were too busy with their kids to stay on top of things.

    Jragghen on
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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    I'm not asking this to justify what the above restrictions are doing, but I'm curious about it; as far as majoring in any given subject goes, how many subjects is the USA the best in the world in for education at the college level?

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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I'm not asking this to justify what the above restrictions are doing, but I'm curious about it; as far as majoring in any given subject goes, how many subjects is the USA the best in the world in for education at the college level?

    Our universities do a ton of cutting-edge research.

    ...for now.

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I'm not asking this to justify what the above restrictions are doing, but I'm curious about it; as far as majoring in any given subject goes, how many subjects is the USA the best in the world in for education at the college level?

    Our academic institutes and the research they do is the best in the world.

    The rest of the world is comparable here and there in quality, but we have five to eight of the top institutions worldwide in any research category. We win in quantity and quality, and the same goes in second tier research.

    Also there are close networks between to US academic institutes that are harder between the world class international ones.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Emphasis on the “for now.” When we are no longer brain draining the entire world I bet that advantage doesn’t last.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2
    I am not sure if this should go in the election thread or the immigration thread.

    If you were wondering if Trump's wife was also terrible, of course the answer was yes

    CNN video of Melania Trump saying “Give me a fucking break” in response to being asked about child separations in 2018

    Couscous on
  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    I am not sure if this should go in the election thread or the immigration thread.

    If you were wondering if Trump's wife was also terrible, of course the answer was yes

    CNN video of Melania Trump saying “Give me a fucking break” in response to being asked about child separations in 2018

    Some people want to believe that Melania is a normal person trapped in a loveless, possibly abusive marriage to an imbecile.

    These people forget that she's also one of the original generation Obama birthers and is also a generally horrible person.

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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    I am not sure if this should go in the election thread or the immigration thread.

    If you were wondering if Trump's wife was also terrible, of course the answer was yes

    CNN video of Melania Trump saying “Give me a fucking break” in response to being asked about child separations in 2018

    Some people want to believe that Melania is a normal person trapped in a loveless, possibly abusive marriage to an imbecile.

    These people forget that she's also one of the original generation Obama birthers and is also a generally horrible person.

    I can see why they'd think that, except she's all but explicitly said she married Trump for his money. Obviously no one deserves to be treated the way Trump treats people, but it's pretty clear she knew what she was signing up for and made a choice.

    And I mean, if you're willing to put up with him for a decade or two, it's not exactly an irrational decision. Women have been selling their bodies and happiness for security since before civilization was a thing, and she'll probably still have quite a few good years left after Trump dies of old age.

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    I am just absolutely dumbfounded that they have her clearly saying such terrible things...on tape.

    Good, fuck every single one of them. They’re all horrible.

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  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    sorry I know that everything in that clip is horrifying and the truly horrifying part is the blasé acceptance of genocide

    but did that lady seriously say "who gives a fuck about Christmas" on a conversation she knew was being taped?

    does she understand what team she's playing for rn?

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited October 2
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    sorry I know that everything in that clip is horrifying and the truly horrifying part is the blasé acceptance of genocide

    but did that lady seriously say "who gives a fuck about Christmas" on a conversation she knew was being taped?

    does she understand what team she's playing for rn?

    Quiet part loud?

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    In case anyone was curious, legal immigration is moving forward again, albeit slowly. My wife finally had her interview (it was supposed to be a while ago), and it sounds like actually getting everything after the interview is going to take some time still (I'd heard for a bit it was immediate after the interview?)

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    In case anyone was curious, legal immigration is moving forward again, albeit slowly. My wife finally had her interview (it was supposed to be a while ago), and it sounds like actually getting everything after the interview is going to take some time still (I'd heard for a bit it was immediate after the interview?)

    Yeah, things are happening, just hideously slowly :(

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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    It turns out everything we thought was horrible and abhorrent is even worse than we thought.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/family-separation-border-immigration-jeff-sessions-rod-rosenstein.html
    But the attorney general at the time, Jeff Sessions, made it clear what Mr. Trump wanted on a conference call later that afternoon, according to a two-year inquiry by the Justice Department’s inspector general into Mr. Trump’s “zero tolerance” family separation policy.

    “We need to take away children,” Mr. Sessions told the prosecutors, according to participants’ notes. One added in shorthand: “If care about kids, don’t bring them in. Won’t give amnesty to people with kids.”

    They were explicitly targeting children for punishment as a supposed deterrent.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I'm just glad that the duplicitious shit Rosenstein's stick is all over this. He traded on his "one good justice department" shit for not shutting down Mueller while doing this fucking garbage. Fuck you Rod.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    It turns out everything we thought was horrible and abhorrent is even worse than we thought.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/family-separation-border-immigration-jeff-sessions-rod-rosenstein.html
    But the attorney general at the time, Jeff Sessions, made it clear what Mr. Trump wanted on a conference call later that afternoon, according to a two-year inquiry by the Justice Department’s inspector general into Mr. Trump’s “zero tolerance” family separation policy.

    “We need to take away children,” Mr. Sessions told the prosecutors, according to participants’ notes. One added in shorthand: “If care about kids, don’t bring them in. Won’t give amnesty to people with kids.”

    They were explicitly targeting children for punishment as a supposed deterrent.

    While I'm perfectly fine with rubbing their evil faces in their evil shit, we knew this. It's been one of the reasons I was so exasperated with people going "but both sides~"

    https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/39493727#Comment_39493727

    The entire purpose was to be cruel and comically evil so that A. they got to be cruel and B. people would supposedly be deterred.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    It turns out everything we thought was horrible and abhorrent is even worse than we thought.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/family-separation-border-immigration-jeff-sessions-rod-rosenstein.html
    But the attorney general at the time, Jeff Sessions, made it clear what Mr. Trump wanted on a conference call later that afternoon, according to a two-year inquiry by the Justice Department’s inspector general into Mr. Trump’s “zero tolerance” family separation policy.

    “We need to take away children,” Mr. Sessions told the prosecutors, according to participants’ notes. One added in shorthand: “If care about kids, don’t bring them in. Won’t give amnesty to people with kids.”

    They were explicitly targeting children for punishment as a supposed deterrent.

    Nuremberg these mofos.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    The Republicans stated that was the point ages ago.

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The Republicans stated that was the point ages ago.

    Yes and if we eventually get to the same outcome as Nuremberg just needing more ropes I'm fine with that.

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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    I can't believe I'm saying that but it isn't new information at all.

    fml

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I can't believe I'm saying that but it isn't new information at all.

    fml

    Not really but it's more documents and witnesses. If we as a nation finally have the guts to actually prosecute Republican crimes.

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Mexico has been conducting their own investigation and have have identified two women who were operated on without their consent. The interviews are ongoing so they will likely find more.

  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    ICE tortured Africans to try and get them to sign deportation documents, and after that still didn't work, they forcibly took their fingerprints and used that as signatures.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/22/us-ice-officers-allegedly-used-torture-to-make-africans-sign-own-deportation-orders
    US immigration officers allegedly tortured Cameroonian asylum seekers to force them to sign their own deportation orders, in what lawyers and activists describe as a brutal scramble to fly African migrants out of the country in the run-up to the elections.

    Many of the Cameroonian migrants in a Mississippi detention centre refused to sign, fearing death at the hands of Cameroonian government forces responsible for widespread civilian killings, and because they had asylum hearings pending.

    According to multiple accounts, detainees were threatened, choked, beaten, pepper-sprayed and threatened with more violence to make them sign. Several were put in handcuffs by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) officers, and their fingerprints were taken forcibly in place of a signature on documents called stipulated orders of removal, by which the asylum seekers waive their rights to further immigration hearings and accept deportation.
    Also yeah, lawyers and activists are saying the ramped up deportation efforts over the last few weeks are motivated by trying to get people out of the country before they can vote (remember that deportation isn't reserved for illegal immigrants). So... sorry that the election spills over into yet another issue / thread.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Fucking hell.

    We have GOT to root this shit out, completely. And criminal charges damned well need to be pressed against the rank and file as well as all the layers of management that have ordered, aided, and abetted this crap. What the fucking fuck.

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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    They has their hearings pending. And there's this mad scramble to kick them out anyway. "Law and order" my ass.

    We need Nuremberg style trials for these fuckers. Remember kids, ICE needs to be abolished and held accountable in the aftermath.

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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    "Abolish ICE", more like "Prosecute ICE" and "Salt the earth the ICE walked on"

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  • BigJoeMBigJoeM Registered User regular
    Ratify the Rome statute and send these Nazi fucks to the Hague.

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Reading the WaPo article yesterday about child separations, and the 545 children the US can not locate parents for...which is to say the 545 children we kidnapped...I was horrified to realize that one of my primary emotions was relief that the number was so small.

    Like, I was aware of the policy and the implications and the intent and the result. I was horrified at what my country had done. But I had for some reason thought the number was much higher. So knowing that our government “only” kidnapped like six hundred kids was a relief to me.

    Fuck this reality.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    545 is what the Trump administration will admit to.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Reading the WaPo article yesterday about child separations, and the 545 children the US can not locate parents for...which is to say the 545 children we kidnapped...I was horrified to realize that one of my primary emotions was relief that the number was so small.

    Like, I was aware of the policy and the implications and the intent and the result. I was horrified at what my country had done. But I had for some reason thought the number was much higher. So knowing that our government “only” kidnapped like six hundred kids was a relief to me.

    Fuck this reality.

    That were recorded.

    Given the deliberate fuckery, I would be surprised if that was all.

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Reading the WaPo article yesterday about child separations, and the 545 children the US can not locate parents for...which is to say the 545 children we kidnapped...I was horrified to realize that one of my primary emotions was relief that the number was so small.

    Like, I was aware of the policy and the implications and the intent and the result. I was horrified at what my country had done. But I had for some reason thought the number was much higher. So knowing that our government “only” kidnapped like six hundred kids was a relief to me.

    Fuck this reality.

    That were recorded.

    Given the deliberate fuckery, I would be surprised if that was all.

    Oh for sure. That’s a baseline number. But I thought it was like an order of magnitude higher. I figured 5K or more. So still.

    I’m sure the Germans have a word for “sad relief that the horrible thing you thought was gigantic is smaller, but still horrible.”

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Cant have a brain drain if you refuse to teach them

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    "Abolish ICE", more like "Prosecute ICE" and "Salt the earth the ICE walked on"

    Well yes you often do put salt down on the ice before you walk on it....

    ToxElvenshae
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