US Immigration Policy - Incoming administration promises vague reform in 1st 100 days

17677788082

Posts

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Reading the WaPo article yesterday about child separations, and the 545 children the US can not locate parents for...which is to say the 545 children we kidnapped...I was horrified to realize that one of my primary emotions was relief that the number was so small.

    Like, I was aware of the policy and the implications and the intent and the result. I was horrified at what my country had done. But I had for some reason thought the number was much higher. So knowing that our government “only” kidnapped like six hundred kids was a relief to me.

    Fuck this reality.
    Sorry to do this but the 600 is only the kids where we can’t find their parents. There are thousands more where we know where their parents are

    wbBv3fj.png
    RingoBlackDragon480ElldrenExtreaminatusElvenshaeCouscous
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Reading the WaPo article yesterday about child separations, and the 545 children the US can not locate parents for...which is to say the 545 children we kidnapped...I was horrified to realize that one of my primary emotions was relief that the number was so small.

    Like, I was aware of the policy and the implications and the intent and the result. I was horrified at what my country had done. But I had for some reason thought the number was much higher. So knowing that our government “only” kidnapped like six hundred kids was a relief to me.

    Fuck this reality.

    Sorry to do this but the 600 is only the kids where we can’t find their parents. There are thousands more where we know where their parents are

    I’m well aware.

    The former just trouble me more, since that’s a harm that’s much harder to rectify. Sort of like people falsely imprisoned versus falsely executed. Both are horrifying, but the latter are usually considered worse for obvious reasons.

    I’m still hopeful that a concerted effort can see
    most of the 545 kids returned, for what it’s worth. But of course I have to trust that the effort will be taken, which under the current administration...

    ElvenshaeGnome-Interruptus
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Many of the 545 children will never see their parents again, because their parents were either killed when they got back home, or had to go into hiding. Remember, the parents fled their countries for a reason. It was more dangerous for them there than here. Perhaps when they grow up they will be able to trace what happened to them.

    BigJoeMFencingsaxOrcaShadowfireStabbity StyleJragghenRingoShadowhopepainfulPleasanceElldrenElvenshaeMan in the MistsRhesus PositiveGnome-Interruptus
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    The only thing that could make ICE more villanous right now is if they started wearing unit badges with skulls on them. Or rats anuses I guess.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    Orca
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    The only thing that could make ICE more villanous right now is if they started wearing unit badges with skulls on them. Or rats anuses I guess.

    Given the shit they've done, I think they'd be happy to have badges with skulls on them.

    The answer to this universal question...

    ...is a resounding "Yep!" from ICE.

    RingoCommander ZoomkimeBlackDragon480FencingsaxZonugalemp123ShadowfireElldrenExtreaminatusElvenshaeMan in the MistsKamarMartini_PhilosopherRhesus PositiveIncenjucarTicaldfjamGnome-InterruptusTNTrooperMrVyngaardnever die
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    I don't know whether this constitutes good news at this point, but it's a different sort of news than this thread usually gets, so why not share it. Mrs. Jragghen is officially a citizen now.

    autono-wally, erotibot300KamarMartini_PhilosopherSlacker1913ArdolCommander ZoomkimeSpecial KMarty81GnizmoMadicanOrcaMorganVsilence1186Kayne Red RobeTynnanjmcdonaldKrieghundExtreaminatusshrykeGoumindongHefflingBlackDragon480HenroidMillBullheadIncenjucarShadowfireFencingsaxemp123JaysonFourboogedybooElvenshaeAntoshkaAimElldrenForarMan in the MistsRingoCelestialBadgerButtersGnome-InterruptusCojo MojoHappylilElfAegisSummaryJudgmentthatassemblyguyShadowhoperagnarok7331zagdrobTNTrooperSmrtnikMrVyngaardEtheaDoctorArchCalicaBandableSyngynenever die
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    I don't know whether this constitutes good news at this point, but it's a different sort of news than this thread usually gets, so why not share it. Mrs. Jragghen is officially a citizen now.

    Just another advanced form of voter fraud. I mean, she becomes a citizen a week before the election? :)

    Alternately, if things go badly next week, this could be something she brings up every day as a reason to blame you any time she's having a down moment.

    JragghenBullheadFencingsaxElvenshae
  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Stephen Miller has a huge-ass pile of terrible, evil executive orders ready for Trump after the election. Supposedly they're meant for the second term, but they could very well be whipped out Wednesday. Among them are eliminating all refugee admissions and ending birthright citizenship.

    Although considering what all has been happening these last four years, whatever does happen will certainly be even worse than that.

    ElvenshaeRingoCelestialBadgerJragghenShadowfireBlackDragon480MrVyngaard
  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    edited October 31
    The argument that an Executive Order can undo birthright citizenship is extraordinarily flimsy. The 14th Amendment flat out says “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.” The theoretical argument they would use is that illegal immigrants are not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" which is a poor argument in many ways. For one, if the USA has the power to imprison or expel illegal immigrants, that is an example of being subject to the jurisdiction of the USA. If illegal immigrants are not subject to the jurisdiction of the USA, then you can't prosecute them for any crimes! This is both patently false and also not an argument any government should be willing to entertain. Secondly it's not even the parents that matter, it's the baby. So even if you claim that illegal alien parents are not subject to the jurisdiction of the USA (which is still a patently absurd argument), you would have to also claim that somehow the baby is also not subject to the jurisdiction of the USA, which if you accept that babies are not under the jurisdiction (wtf?) then that would logically apply to ALL babies.

    The arguments are nonsensical, so I give it a 50/50 chance of the current SCOTUS allowing it.

    chrisnl on
    steam_sig.png
    Commander ZoomJragghenkimeFencingsaxCelestialBadgerToxBlackDragon480emp123Gnome-InterruptusElvenshaeForarShadowhopeArdolTNTrooperKayne Red RobeSmrtnikElldrenDoctorArchtynic
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    It'd be another thing on the pile to justify court packing.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
    Havelock2.0MillshrykeTicaldfjamElvenshaeFencingsaxMan in the MistsArdolElldrenDoctorArch
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    So, does that mean everyone has to pass a citizenship test to become an American?

    Cause I'd pay good cash money to watch Donald take the test.

    "Mr President, how many branches of government are there, and what are their names?"

    ShadowhopeRhesus PositiveBlackDragon480ElvenshaeDoodmannJaysonFourLord Palington
  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    So, does that mean everyone has to pass a citizenship test to become an American?

    Cause I'd pay good cash money to watch Donald take the test.

    "Mr President, how many branches of government are there, and what are their names?"

    I think the goal of removing birthright citizenship is to make it such that only the children of citizens are automatically citizens. There is substantial precedent (haha precedent, like that matters with these chucklefucks) that the parents citizenship status does not matter, such as a ruling (I forget the case, but it was a SCOTUS ruling) that even while the Chinese Exclusion Act was somehow a thing, that the children of Chinese immigrants (who were not citizens because racism) were citizens if born in the USA. To allow an EO to change that would mean saying that case was decided wrongly, and also probably a ton of other cases. Under any normal SCOTUS this would never be attempted because it is blatantly against all previous rulings.

    So, like a 50/50 shot I guess.

    steam_sig.png
    FencingsaxshrykeJaysonFourElldren
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    So, does that mean everyone has to pass a citizenship test to become an American?

    Cause I'd pay good cash money to watch Donald take the test.

    "Mr President, how many branches of government are there, and what are their names?"

    I think the goal of removing birthright citizenship is to make it such that only the children of citizens are automatically citizens. There is substantial precedent (haha precedent, like that matters with these chucklefucks) that the parents citizenship status does not matter, such as a ruling (I forget the case, but it was a SCOTUS ruling) that even while the Chinese Exclusion Act was somehow a thing, that the children of Chinese immigrants (who were not citizens because racism) were citizens if born in the USA. To allow an EO to change that would mean saying that case was decided wrongly, and also probably a ton of other cases. Under any normal SCOTUS this would never be attempted because it is blatantly against all previous rulings.

    So, like a 50/50 shot I guess.

    Oh, fully aware of what the intent is from these malicious fuckers.

    But they're also incompetent malicious fuckers, so imagining everyone is stripped of citizenship until the test is sat, and imagining getting to watch Donald sit it, because the EO is so poorly worded (see the first couple iterations of the Muslim Ban), I would pay cash money for.

    "Donald. DONALD! You fill in one bubble per question, not join the dots!"
    "I drew a clock! Also, person man woman pencil paper! I R genious!"

    TicaldfjamRhesus PositiveBlackDragon480ElvenshaeElldren
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    The law is not like computer code. Even a poorly worded order will not effect "the right people"

    wbBv3fj.png
    shrykeMayabird
  • HenroidHenroid Wear your damn plague masks! Registered User regular
    People who hate birthright citizenship never consider that's how they have it.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    I stream at night, 11pm PST - /henroidt on Twitch
    CelestialBadgerElvenshaeFiendishrabbitSpecial KBigJoeMOrcakimeTicaldfjamBullheadArdolCommander ZoomDarkPrimusBlackDragon480IncenjucarKayne Red RobeMartini_PhilosopherFencingsaxToxStabbity StyleArbitraryDescriptoremp123ButtersMan in the MistsShadowfireHappylilElfJaysonFourpainfulPleasanceElldrenMrVyngaardHefflingKamarMunkus BeavertynicDee Kaenever die
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    If an executive order can override birthright citizenship, an executive order can override any part of the Constitution.

    dt3GeqU.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
    OrcaIncenjucarshrykeKayne Red RobeDoodmannSmrtnikFencingsaxZonugalStabbity StyleBullheademp123TicaldfjamMillMayabirdMan in the MistsShadowfireElvenshaeFiendishrabbitKruiteJaysonFourpainfulPleasanceElldrenMrVyngaardDoctorArchKamarzagdrobMunkus Beavernever die
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Yeah, there's no way this should fly but I suspect the whole point is to just try and be seen doing it, with a side of "we'll see what the hacks we packed the courts with say".

    Miller knows this is his one and only shot to live his dream. He can spend the rest of his life reliving his own equivalent of the high school football championship game.

    MorganVHappylilElfMrVyngaardGnome-Interruptus
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I think we should revoke birthright citizenship solely for Stephen Miller and send him back to Russia (where his ancestors fled from in the early 20th century.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Miller_(political_advisor)#Early_life

    BullheadTicaldfjamElvenshaeMrVyngaardExtreaminatus
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    I think we should revoke birthright citizenship solely for Stephen Miller and send him back to Russia (where his ancestors fled from in the early 20th century.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Miller_(political_advisor)#Early_life

    I'd say do it for the Trumps too (after they've served their time), back to Germany, but I think Biden wants to repair relations with Germany, not destroy them.

    Commander ZoomCelestialBadgerBullheadTicaldfjamMan in the Mists
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited October 31
    Henroid wrote: »
    People who hate birthright citizenship never consider that's how they have it.

    There’s usually some European who makes a big deal of their country not having it before shutting up as people Google pages of stories about how their governments use that permanent noncitizen status to abuse the shit out of people who were born and raised in their countries.

    Phillishere on
    Phoenix-DElvenshaeElldrenKamar
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    I am not a fan of joking about revoking anyone's citizenship, even if the person is loathsome and wishes to revoke citizenships from people.

    Especially when you can just... wish for them to go to jail for life and have all their assets seized, for all the crimes they've been committing.

    dt3GeqU.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
    IncenjucarBigJoeMFencingsaxAistanJragghenMayabirdElvenshaeElldrenzagdrobKayne Red Robe
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I am not a fan of joking about revoking anyone's citizenship, even if the person is loathsome and wishes to revoke citizenships from people.

    Especially when you can just... wish for them to go to jail for life and have all their assets seized, for all the crimes they've been committing.

    Just join the International Criminal Court.

    BigJoeM
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I am not a fan of joking about revoking anyone's citizenship, even if the person is loathsome and wishes to revoke citizenships from people.

    Especially when you can just... wish for them to go to jail for life and have all their assets seized, for all the crimes they've been committing.

    Just join the International Criminal Court.

    You forgot to @ the United States.

    dt3GeqU.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
    MayabirdElvenshaeRhesus PositiveMrVyngaard
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I am not a fan of joking about revoking anyone's citizenship, even if the person is loathsome and wishes to revoke citizenships from people.

    Especially when you can just... wish for them to go to jail for life and have all their assets seized, for all the crimes they've been committing.

    Just join the International Criminal Court.

    If only we would.

    TicaldfjampainfulPleasanceGnome-InterruptusCalica
  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The law is not like computer code. Even a poorly worded order will not effect "the right people"

    louisiana-literacy-1.jpg
    louisiana-literacy-1b.jpg

    louisiana-literacy-2.jpg

    louisiana-literacy-2b.jpg

    louisiana-literacy-3.jpg

    louisiana-literacy-3b.jpg

    Pass/fail: Are you a white man of wealth who can avoid this test or not?

    Jragghenautono-wally, erotibot300DarkPrimusPolaritieStabbity StyleMan in the MistsArdolElvenshaekimeTicaldfjamIncenjucarRickRudeAistanRhesus PositiveFencingsaxKoopahTroopahRingoMartini_PhilosopherGnome-InterruptusTNTrooper
  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Despite some SERIOUS wording flaws, I guaran-dam-tee you that immigrants will probably pass that at a better rate than your average "natural born" american. Heck, i'm pretty good at tests and word puzzles and with 1 failure meaning I fail the test I'm pretty sure *I* couldn't pass the test, other than the optional test noted below.

    TicaldfjamOrcaBlackDragon480KoopahTroopahShadowfirezagdrob
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Despite some SERIOUS wording flaws, I guaran-dam-tee you that immigrants will probably pass that at a better rate than your average "natural born" american. Heck, i'm pretty good at tests and word puzzles and with 1 failure meaning I fail the test I'm pretty sure *I* couldn't pass the test, other than the optional test noted below.

    I have a degree in English and I couldn't pass the test because it's nonsensical.

    TicaldfjamJragghenHenroidTynnanForarelectricitylikesmeFiendishrabbitHappylilElfRhesus PositiveStabbity StyleErlecFencingsaxCelestialBadgerSoggybiscuitPolaritieKoopahTroopahElldrenZonugalToxButtersDevoutlyApatheticIlpalaLord PalingtonMartini_PhilosopherShadowfireElvenshaeshrykeSleepAridholArdolzagdrobemp123CalicaFlying CouchMunkus BeaverMetzger MeisterMadicanDee Kaenever dieKetBra
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Its both nonsensical and deliberately ambiguous. You cannot pass if your examiner doesn't want you to.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
    JragghenTynnanIncenjucarMan in the MistsAistanHappylilElfRhesus PositivePhoenix-DStabbity StyleFencingsaxCelestialBadgerpainfulPleasanceSoggybiscuitKoopahTroopahMayabirdElldrenRingoDarkPrimusZonugalMillSlacker1913ButtersDevoutlyApatheticautono-wally, erotibot300Martini_PhilosopherGnome-InterruptusadejaanShadowfireElvenshaeshrykeSpoitSleepTNTrooperArdoljmcdonaldzagdrobemp123Kayne Red RobeCalicaFlying CouchMunkus BeaverGnizmoSmrtniktynicDee Kaenever dieKetBra
  • HenroidHenroid Wear your damn plague masks! Registered User regular
    I remember listening on the Howard Stern Show them doing a bit where they gave staff members the test and there was a lot of crazy shit in it. The citizenship test is kind of a loyalty / exceptionalism thing.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    I stream at night, 11pm PST - /henroidt on Twitch
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    I didn't get all the way through that test, but it's pretty damn tricky dicky. There were a few that I had to think about, especially the circle one. Also what's a line around? Does a circle around it disqualify you does it have to be a rectangle?

    Plus you only have 10 minutes to take the test, which means you're rushing. I'm guessing most people would fail that test.

  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Especially since you have 20 seconds to answer each question, and any incorrect answer means a fail. (Bonus that several questions are ambiguous.)

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
    RickRudeMan in the MistsRhesus PositiveFencingsaxToxautono-wally, erotibot300Elvenshae
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Most of the sentences in the tests literally do not have a real meaning. They're like a freaking koan written by racist assholes.

    Phoenix-DAiouaFencingsaxCelestialBadgerpainfulPleasanceMayabirdTicaldfjamElldrenRingoDarkPrimusJragghenMrVyngaardIlpalaTynnanDoctorArchShadowfireshrykeElvenshaeAridholArdolKayne Red RobeCalicaMunkus BeaverMan in the Miststynicnever dieKetBra
  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    30 questions in 10 minutes means averaging 20 seconds per question. Even ignoring the confusing or even downright nonsensical instructions, and knowing that one wrong answer means failing, that is a very high pressure environment. The truly evil part of that test is that a question like "Draw five circles that one common inter-locking part" can mean a whole lot of different things, so even if you somehow manage to make a drawing that satisfies one interpretation of the instructions they person grading the exam can simply pick a different interpretation and bam, you fail. Or the one where you are supposed to write in the third square the second letter of the fourth word. Well which one is the third square? Most people would say the right-most one, but the grader can interpret it however he likes. Then the second letter of the fourth word, well do you mean the second letter of the fourth word of the instruction for this step, or the second letter of the fourth word of the entire test? Answer: whichever one ends up in you failing. It is a test that is just designed to be impossible to pass if the person administering the test doesn't want you to.

    Heck even a simple one, like writing the word vote upside down but with the letters in the proper order can be interpreted in more than one way, and again it will be whichever way gives the result desired by the test administrator. The fact that any jurisdiction ever got away with things like that literacy test is shameful.

    steam_sig.png
    OrcaForarAistanRhesus PositiveMorganVJragghenkimeautono-wally, erotibot300Gnome-InterruptusDoctorArchElvenshaeArdolFrozenzenCalica
  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    edited November 1
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Most of the sentences in the tests literally do not have a real meaning. They're like a freaking koan written by racist assholes.

    Yes, that's the point. Y'all, stop trying to answer the questions. The test is written so that it cannot actually be passed; it's just an excuse to disenfranchise people whose skin tone is too dark (or if they just don't like someone or whatever). The "test giver" at the courthouse can just point at any question and claim "you did this wrong" and deny a person's rights. That's it. This test is absolutely not in good faith, and nothing of its ilk past and present ever has been.

    Mayabird on
    ElldrenDarkPrimusCelestialBadgerJragghenNobodykimeBlackDragon480PhillishereMrVyngaardIncenjucarRhesus PositiveTynnanGnome-InterruptusFencingsaxShadowfireshrykeAistanElvenshaeArdolPhoenix-Dzagdrobemp123chrisnlKayne Red RobeCalicaMan in the MistsSmrtniktynicnever die
  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular


    I am not a person who swears, but Jesus fucking Christ.

    Buzzfeed reporter: White House proclaims today “National day of remembrance for Americans killed by illegal aliens”

    nUzGRMY.gif
    twitch.tv/Taramoor
    @TaramoorPlays
    IncenjucarBlackDragon480TicaldfjamElldrenLeperMessiah
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Can tomorrow be "National day of remembrance for illegal aliens killed by American citizens"?

    Republicans = so fucking racist.

    IncenjucarBlackDragon480BigJoeMJaysonFourDarkPrimusForarPolaritieStabbity StyleRhesus PositiveOrcaCommander ZoomCantidoMartini_PhilosopherFencingsaxDoctorArchShadowfireshrykeZomroElvenshaeAridholTNTrooperArdolElldrenzagdrobemp123CalicaKoopahTroopahMan in the MistsFiendishrabbit
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Can tomorrow be "National day of remembrance for illegal aliens killed by American citizens"?

    Republicans = so fucking racist.

    What about National Day of Rememberance for Native Americans killed by Colonialists?

    Also, throw in some reparations there, including some of the land seized, especially those done in violation of treaties.

    OrcaCelestialBadgerJaysonFourForarBlackDragon480
  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    If an executive order can override birthright citizenship, an executive order can override any part of the Constitution.

    This is what God Emperor Trump desires.

    If a movement doesn't have someone that can sit down opposite those in a position of power and strike a deal, how can that movement achieve success?
    JaysonFourTicaldfjamElvenshae
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 1
    Heffling wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    If an executive order can override birthright citizenship, an executive order can override any part of the Constitution.

    This is what God Emperor Trump desires.

    Or at least, it’s what he has been told should be a priority by “C+ Santa Monica Fascist” Steven Miller.

    Note that I’m not denying Trump’s racism, but his incuriosity and general laziness makes me generally assume that when it’s specific action desired, the particulars likely came from that faction.

    Calling Mexicans rapists and murderers is entirely on brand, but specific legal actions generally seems to stem from one of the more focused/actively dedicated racists in his orbit.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
    TicaldfjamkimeBlackDragon480MorganVFencingsaxGnome-InterruptusElldrenelectricitylikesmeMan in the Mists
  • HenroidHenroid Wear your damn plague masks! Registered User regular
    Do proclamations like that last only for the day and year they are issued or are they a "from now on" sort of thing?

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    I stream at night, 11pm PST - /henroidt on Twitch
Sign In or Register to comment.