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US Immigration Policy - Travel advisory: don't go to the South if you're Hispanic/Latino

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Posts

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Ilpala wrote: »
    "ICE makes targeted arrests every day; ICE does not conduct “raids”"

    This was just LAST MONTH

    They’re trying to make you see five lights when there are four.

    Nope. That episode involved the Cardassian trying to break Picard’s mind. Some quality 1984 action where he actually believes that there are five lights. This is just bullshitting and figuring that nobody will call them on it.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    CaptainPeacock
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger regular Registered User regular
    The right could use ICE to terrify Hispanic voters by “accidentally” deporting Hispanic US citizens caught without their papers near polling stations.

    YoutubekimeOrcaMrVyngaardJaysonFourCantido
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    The right could use ICE to terrify Hispanic voters by “accidentally” deporting Hispanic US citizens caught without their papers near polling stations.

    ICE doesn't seem to need the right to tell them to do that.

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    Man in the Mists
  • NobeardNobeard regular North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    "ICE does not need a warrant to make an arrest"

    ...if they can just snap up everyone, I fully expect to see them grab local and state-level opponents to intimidate Trump's opponents, and then outright disappear people who raise too much fuss.

    Like all bullies, ICE targets people that can't fight back. Now way they would go after anyone who has actual power.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
    Commander Zoom
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger regular Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    The right could use ICE to terrify Hispanic voters by “accidentally” deporting Hispanic US citizens caught without their papers near polling stations.

    ICE doesn't seem to need the right to tell them to do that.

    ICE are part of the right.

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  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    ICE absolutely is going to try interfering with the election, and the only possible effective response is for citizens to make it impossible for ICE agents to operate openly/freely.

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    The only thing that routinely stymies ICE is an informed public that refuses to be complicit. It means having anti-ICE activists at likely Target polls.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger regular Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    The only thing that routinely stymies ICE is an informed public that refuses to be complicit. It means having anti-ICE activists at likely Target polls.

    Just having a raid in the neighborhood the previous day would spook voters into staying home. They don't actually have to be pulling people off line at the polls.

    A while back ICE announced raids in my city and the streets were weirdly empty of Hispanic people that day. They can't all have been undocumented. This inspires fear.

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  • MillMill regular Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure people would start shooting ICE if they tried that shit and some states and localities start arresting the fuckers for electioneering. So my gut tells me ICE probably won't attempt this shit; especially, since that gives plenty of ammo to the abolish ICE stance. No way they convince anyone that targeted raids near polling places or "accidental" detention of non-whites right before the election, wasn't some shitty attempt to help the GOP win. Hell, as fucking garbage as the GOP is, some of them are probably smart enough to tell ICE to do absolutely nothing of the sort because there will be a public backlash. Likely a shut down where the GOP ends up eating shit and every fucker in ICE is out of job, starving on the street.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    The next election is going to determine if the supreme court is entirely under conservative control for most of the rest of our generation, and will cement white supremacists power in the states as there will be nothing left to hold Trump back.

    I'm pretty sure ICE isn't going to skip that opportunity.

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  • MillMill regular Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    No, they'll skip it because there are enough people on the right that get exactly what will happen.

    ICE fuckers try this cute stunt, setting off the public backlash. Where a ton of people that were either going to sit the election out, vote third party or reluctantly vote republican decide they really don't want to risk a republican sweep, so they show up and vote democratic. You also probably get several ICE fuckers that get the shit kicked out of them at a polling station and probably several that get round up by the cops because their very presence is interfering with the elections. This results in the democrats likely getting seats they'd have otherwise lost. Now you have a Democratic majority that will be showing mid-January of 2021 that wants ICE's head on a platter for their fuckery and the public strongly in favor. They also will have 2.5 months to craft the bill to cut all funding to ICE and close out the shitty agency ASAP, that likely gets passed in the quickest time possible once everyone is sworn in. You may also end up with a GOP minority that is very displeased with how ICE just cost them several seats, possible state legislatures and likely hosed their reputation, so they may happily sign off on a bill that curb stomps ICE.

    I mean there is a reason the GOP opts for gerrymandering, both sides-ism and difficult to get IDs to steal power. They know they don't have the ability to keep power if they don't have some thin veneer of legitimacy and ICE raids timed to fuck with the vote will lack that legitimacy and may actually have the opposite effect of what was desired.

    Mill on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Public backlash means nothing when the vote is done already.

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  • MillMill regular Registered User regular
    The public backlash will happen before the vote finishes because ICE pulling shit like that right before the vote or during the election will make the news; especially, if it results in some fucking ICE goons getting the shit kicked out of them at the polls.

  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    The public backlash will happen before the vote finishes because ICE pulling shit like that right before the vote or during the election will make the news; especially, if it results in some fucking ICE goons getting the shit kicked out of them at the polls.

    Do you actually think people are going to publicly attack federal agents at polling centers?

    Do you actually think local law enforcement is going to do anything against federal agents at polling centers?

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  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    The public discourse would be summarized as, "Well, I guess it's good if they're keeping non-citizens away from the polls? They shouldn't be voting anyway." It would absolutely not result in the needed beatdown of ICE.

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  • MillMill regular Registered User regular
    Here's the thing, in order for this to have the desired effect. They'd have to target a polling that predominantly has the group they want to intimate. That has the effect of putting them in contact with someone that isn't going to let that shit slide. During their last round of raids, they had to contend with people doing everything they legally can to impede ICE's ability to round up people. During those raids ICE was able to argue they legal authority to round those people able. Showing up on election day to a polling place that is predominantly Hispanic or Latino, is not going to be something that people view as being legal, it's going to be viewed as an illegal attempt to prevent people from voting because keep in mind, this is also going to be at location where people don't buy into the whole "OMG the illegals are voting and stealing our elections," this is in a location where that logic viewed as BS designed to attempt to steal elections. If a state apparatus makes an attempt to force an election result, it's going to likely turn violent because at that point people are going to be like "well the government is trying to steal power from us! Well fuck them, the gloves are coming off!"

    Also given that elections are state matters and a fair number of states aren't happy with ICE's fuckery around the court houses. No, I see number of localities and states getting really pissed when ICE brings in a ton of negative attention, by interfering with their elections. There will be a fair number of ICE fuckers quickly removed from the vicinity. I also see them not having much luck arguing their cases before the courts because even a fair number of republican judges aren't buying into the "OMG mass number of illegals illegally voting" thing. It's actually a very good way for ICE to kill themselves as an agency; especially, if they are suffering the same issues CBE is facing, where despite finally able to be as shitty as the racist shit lords want to be, well morale is terrible because a ton of people fucking hate them and they have to deal with it constantly. Seriously, fucks, quit with the nihilism, ICE isn't going to attempt to fuck with elections.

    They're going to continue doing their shit the way they've been, which involves a ton of "we're cowardly fuckers, that do not want to put ourselves to close to anyone that will shut our shit down." Showing up the polls where there are likely going to be lines, is to going to put them in the vicinity of a shit ton of people that will not tolerate their shit.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    Whenever somebody tells me, "there's no way they're going to cross this line in the sand," I just glance at the whole fucking beach that's been run roughshod over.

    Like yeah, I'd sure like to hope there's certain lines they won't cross, too. But I'm not going to just sit back and relax and assume they won't try anything, because complacency will only encourage bad behavior.

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  • KamarKamar regular Registered User regular
    It's odd to me that the thread opinion is "This is going to happen, it is going to work, we have zero recourse, Trump will win."

    That's cool, I guess.

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudCantido
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Kamar wrote: »
    It's odd to me that the thread opinion is "This is going to happen, it is going to work, we have zero recourse, Trump will win."

    That's cool, I guess.

    Hope for the best but plan for the worst. If we just shrug and say "well surely they'd never do THAT" then when they DO do that, we're caught with our pants down.

    DarkPrimus on
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  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    Kamar wrote: »
    It's odd to me that the thread opinion is "This is going to happen, it is going to work, we have zero recourse, Trump will win."

    That's cool, I guess.

    I don't think anyone has said we have absolutely zero recourse. There are many ways for citizens to resist these types of organizations, and always have been. The fundamental thing we need is for everyone to have zero tolerance for ICE activity happening around them.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham regular Registered User regular
    WACriminal wrote: »
    Kamar wrote: »
    It's odd to me that the thread opinion is "This is going to happen, it is going to work, we have zero recourse, Trump will win."

    That's cool, I guess.

    I don't think anyone has said we have absolutely zero recourse. There are many ways for citizens to resist these types of organizations, and always have been. The fundamental thing we need is for everyone to have zero tolerance for ICE activity happening around them.

    In addition, while I'm sure it will happen, if organizations on the left are present and ready to tell them to piss off, including local law enforcement having explicit orders to prevent them arresting anyone within 5 miles of a polling station, the effects can be minimized.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    IncenjucarElvenshaeWACriminalMan in the Mists
  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead regular Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    WACriminal wrote: »
    Kamar wrote: »
    It's odd to me that the thread opinion is "This is going to happen, it is going to work, we have zero recourse, Trump will win."

    That's cool, I guess.

    I don't think anyone has said we have absolutely zero recourse. There are many ways for citizens to resist these types of organizations, and always have been. The fundamental thing we need is for everyone to have zero tolerance for ICE activity happening around them.

    In addition, while I'm sure it will happen, if organizations on the left are present and ready to tell them to piss off, including local law enforcement having explicit orders to prevent them arresting anyone within 5 miles of a polling station, the effects can be minimized.

    Heck, you can even do this anyways, even if ICE doesn't show, as a demonstration of solidarity with your immigrant population. The mere threat of ICE, who is now known to detain and even deprt actual US citizens for the crime of having Hispanic sounding last names, might be enough to keep perfectly legal immigrants and US citizens from heading to the polls out of fear.

    A show of solidarity from fellow Americans could go a long way to emboldening such individuals into coming to vote anyways. If you feel like being a bit cynical about it, you could potentially call it security theatre for the left.

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  • MorganVMorganV regular Registered User regular
    So... this isn't quite the same fencing that the President was touring, but it's apparently still part of the current existing fence.


    "Mexican Congressman easily scales the existing border wall showing Trump that a) Mexicans climb and b) wall is pointless and cruel"
    *retweeting Braulio Guerra, a Mexican legislator, with pictures of him atop the fence*
    - Glenn Hurowitz is an environmental activist, but it's the retweet that's important.

    I don't know much Spanish. I was only taught French and German at school. But I'm pretty sure I can figure out what "lo absurdo e innecesario" is, without needing Google Translate.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    'Look, Donald Trump, the absurd and unnecessary spending on this project that aggravates and damages our good neighborship.'

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger regular Registered User regular
    edited September 21
    A fit and healthy man or woman can climb the wall. But it will certainly keep out refugees who are not fit and healthy - the young, the elderly, the disabled, the pregnant.

    So... working as planned. It's like a fitness test. If you are fit enough to climb this wall you will certainly be an asset toiling in our fields!

    CelestialBadger on
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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme regular Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure a battery powered angle grinder will cut through that in no more then 20 minutes.

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  • NobeardNobeard regular North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    edited September 21
    A fit and healthy man or woman can climb the wall. But it will certainly keep out refugees who are not fit and healthy - the young, the elderly, the disabled, the pregnant.

    So... working as planned. It's like a fitness test. If you are fit enough to climb this wall you will certainly be an asset toiling in our fields!

    We could save money by not having a wall and instead having their fitness tested at the border. The young and healthy could get in, then offer their services to the agricorps who would bid on them.

    Nobeard on
    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • MorganVMorganV regular Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure a battery powered angle grinder will cut through that in no more then 20 minutes.

    No "pretty sure" about it regarding possibility of cutting through. Unknown if "pretty sure" applies to the timeframe.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/test-steel-prototype-border-wall-showed-it-could-be-sawed-n956856

    Man in the Mists
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    A fit and healthy man or woman can climb the wall. But it will certainly keep out refugees who are not fit and healthy - the young, the elderly, the disabled, the pregnant.

    So... working as planned. It's like a fitness test. If you are fit enough to climb this wall you will certainly be an asset toiling in our fields!

    There was well a rather racist joke I would hear over the years about this

    Mild ConfusionLoisLaneTicaldfjamCelestialBadger
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie regular Registered User regular
    So this seems like kind of a big deal. From a reporter for Courthouse News.

    BREAKING: The Senate has voted 54-41 to terminate President Trump’s declaration of a national emergency at the southern border and to stop the diversion of military funds to pay for a wall along the border.
    Story to come for @CourthouseNews

    Despite the Republican majority, the Senate has voted to end Trump's declaration of a national emergency at the southern border and stop military funds being diverted to his wall/fence/whatever the hell that thing is.


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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 25
    I'm pretty sure certain Senators are extremely unhappy about both the military funds part, and also some races are getting much closer than they want because of this among other issues.

    Fencingsax on
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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie regular Registered User regular

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  • XaquinXaquin regular Right behind you!Registered User regular
    So this seems like kind of a big deal. From a reporter for Courthouse News.

    BREAKING: The Senate has voted 54-41 to terminate President Trump’s declaration of a national emergency at the southern border and to stop the diversion of military funds to pay for a wall along the border.
    Story to come for @CourthouseNews

    Despite the Republican majority, the Senate has voted to end Trump's declaration of a national emergency at the southern border and stop military funds being diverted to his wall/fence/whatever the hell that thing is.

    holy shit, I did NOT see that coming

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  • MorganVMorganV regular Registered User regular
    edited September 25
    Xaquin wrote: »
    So this seems like kind of a big deal. From a reporter for Courthouse News.

    BREAKING: The Senate has voted 54-41 to terminate President Trump’s declaration of a national emergency at the southern border and to stop the diversion of military funds to pay for a wall along the border.
    Story to come for @CourthouseNews

    Despite the Republican majority, the Senate has voted to end Trump's declaration of a national emergency at the southern border and stop military funds being diverted to his wall/fence/whatever the hell that thing is.

    holy shit, I did NOT see that coming

    The White House is not having a very good day.

    House is impeaching.
    Media isn't cooperating (like they did with the Barr Memo)
    Senate tells him to fuck himself on his one steadfast issue.

    EDIT: My day, on the other hand, is going splendidly. Partly to do with the above three points.

    MorganV on
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  • reVersereVerse regular Registered User regular
    Trump can still veto it, assuming anyone in the White House remembers to have him do it.

    Desktop Hippie
  • MorganVMorganV regular Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    Trump can still veto it, assuming anyone in the White House remembers to have him do it.

    He can.

    But just exactly how many Senators is he wanting to piss off at this moment?

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic regular Registered User regular
    Huh.

    I've gotta update my mental list of "Chance the GOP toss Trump overboard" here. Did not expect this at all.

    Desktop HippieSleepNobeard
  • LadaiLadai regular Registered User regular
    edited September 25
    Should be noted -- and it is pointed out in the Politco story linked above -- that this exact thing also happened back in March, but Trump vetoed it. He is expected to veto it again. According to the story, the Democrats can continue to call for a vote to end the emergency declaration every six months.

    Also some vote breakdowns, from the Politico story:
    The eleven Republican senators joining Democrats to disapprove of the emergency declaration were Susan Collins of Maine, Mitt Romney of Utah, Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Rand Paul of Kentucky, Mike Lee of Utah, Jerry Moran of Kansas, Rob Portman of Ohio, Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania, Roy Blunt of Missouri and Roger Wicker of Mississippi. Marco Rubio of Florida, who previously voted to disapprove of the emergency declaration did not vote.

    Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), Cory Booker (D-N.J.), Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) — all 2020 candidates — also did not vote.

    Ladai on
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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    So this seems like kind of a big deal. From a reporter for Courthouse News.

    BREAKING: The Senate has voted 54-41 to terminate President Trump’s declaration of a national emergency at the southern border and to stop the diversion of military funds to pay for a wall along the border.
    Story to come for @CourthouseNews

    Despite the Republican majority, the Senate has voted to end Trump's declaration of a national emergency at the southern border and stop military funds being diverted to his wall/fence/whatever the hell that thing is.

    holy shit, I did NOT see that coming

    Something must have happened yesterday or something.

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  • reVersereVerse regular Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Trump can still veto it, assuming anyone in the White House remembers to have him do it.

    He can.

    But just exactly how many Senators is he wanting to piss off at this moment?

    I do not believe that is a calculation that Trump is capable of making. In his own eyes he is the king, all must bend to his will. He will see this as an act of insubordination and, hopefully, start lashing out at his party.

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