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US Immigration Policy - Travel advisory: don't go to the South if you're Hispanic/Latino

15758596062

Posts

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Scams are usually not accredited.

    Quasi-scam, then. wikipedia says NPU is still accredited, the DFP says it lost it.
    Rampeesa arrived in the U.S. legally a few years ago on a student visa and earned in 2016 a master's degree in computer science at Northwestern Polytechnic University. But the university later lost its accreditation, which put his immigration status in jeopardy. He had spent $40,000 in tuition and fees for his studies at the university.
    He said he was trying in the U.S. after his previous university's loss of accreditation made his master's degree "worthless."

    You move those goalposts any further and you'll be trying to kick from the parking lot.

    I'm not moving goalposts. I found two sources that say different things.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    How in the hell are these students anything other than victims in this fake school story?

    They aren't white, so DHS and ICE want to hurt them

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  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    I'm just curious as to why you're carrying so much water for an obviously unethical and illegal sting operation, personally. Seems like a weird hill to die on to me but what do I know huh

    ElvenshaepainfulPleasancemonikerLadai
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Any arguments for how this *isn't* extremely obvious and textbook entrapment? Because it definitely looks like law enforcement sets people up to commit crimes they would not otherwise create, or even give people an impression that they committed until the trap was sprung

    Metzger MeisterElldrenMan in the MistsSmrtnikZomroSpoitNobeardSolarpainfulPleasanceJaysonFourmonikerRaijuLord_AsmodeusLadai
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Records filed with the state Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs (LARA) show that the University of Farmington was incorporated in January 2016
    Coolcoolcool cool cool coooool

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I'm just curious as to why you're carrying so much water for an obviously unethical and illegal sting operation, personally. Seems like a weird hill to die on to me but what do I know huh

    If there were legit ways for people to immigrate this scheme would be a concern. But there aren't really.

    FencingsaxkimeMartini_PhilosopherCommander ZoomMan in the MistsJaysonFour
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    How in the hell are these students anything other than victims in this fake school story?

    Because there seems to be a decent amount of evidence that some of them at least signed up for it knowing it was a fake school. There's reports as I remember from back when this broke like ... 11 months ago that some poor bastards actually showed up at the building, with bags and everything, wondering where the university was. But it seems like the majority never acted like they thought this was anything other then a "pay tuition for fake visa" scam.

    Which isn't to say that what DHS was doing here was in any way ethical, just that a lot of these students almost certainly knew this was a scam. They just misjudged what kind of scam.

    kimeRaiden333Aridhol
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Shocking.

    Stef W. Knight of Axios: DHS never had systems needed to track separated migrant kids under zero tolerance, the new IG report found. It can't confirm how many families were separated or reunited.

    Oh, and the policy wasn't effective.

    Everyone has moved on to the new scandal of the day but we are still torturing children in concentration camps.

    I wasn't aware this was even a question. We learned early on that CBP wasn't keeping track of, or communicating to ICE/HHS, which kids were unaccompanied and which were kidnapped separated.

    Fencingsaxautono-wally, erotibot300CalicaToxMrVyngaardJaysonFourmonikerRaijukimeLord_AsmodeusLadai
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    1. create fake school
    2. make the fake school look as legitimate as possible, including getting an accreditation group to help you
    3. target foreigners
    4. arrest foreigners because those visas were gotten based on a fake school

    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    https://freep.com/amp/4277686002
    About 90 additional foreign students of a fake university in metro Detroit created by the Department of Homeland Security have been arrested in recent months.

    A total of about 250 students have now been arrested since January on immigration violations by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) as part of a sting operation by federal agents who enticed foreign-born students, mostly from India, to attend the school that marketed itself as offering graduate programs in technology and computer studies, according to ICE officials.
    The students had arrived legally in the U.S. on student visas, but since the University of Farmington was later revealed to be a creation of federal agents, they lost their immigration status after it was shut down in January. The school was located on Northwestern Highway near 13 Mile Road in Farmington Hills and staffed with undercover agents posing as university officials.
    Attorneys for the students arrested said they were unfairly trapped by the U.S. government since the Department of Homeland Security had said on its website that the university was legitimate. An accreditation agency that was working with the U.S. on its sting operation also listed the university as legitimate.

    Yeah that’s textbook entrapment.

    fuck gendered marketing
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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    It's entrapment, which is illegal and I hope every judge that has to hear this case tells ICE and DHS to get fucked because they had no fucking business doing this shit. I hope then, that the victims do sue the government and successfully win lots of money, so that we can all turn around and rub the ICE's, Trump's, DHS and all the other fucking sack of shits collective faces in and point out how they ended up wasting a shit ton of money. After all if they didn't resort to an illegal tactic, the government wouldn't have gotten sued and they wouldn't have waste resources on an illegal activity.

    RingoElvenshaeElldrenMan in the MistsIncenjucarStabbity StyleLord_Asmodeus
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    It's entrapment, which is illegal and I hope every judge that has to hear this case tells ICE and DHS to get fucked because they had no fucking business doing this shit. I hope then, that the victims do sue the government and successfully win lots of money, so that we can all turn around and rub the ICE's, Trump's, DHS and all the other fucking sack of shits collective faces in and point out how they ended up wasting a shit ton of money. After all if they didn't resort to an illegal tactic, the government wouldn't have gotten sued and they wouldn't have waste resources on an illegal activity.

    Lawsuits? The vast majority who have been deported or are being deported haven't even filed to get their $12K "tuition" back which would be Step 1 and it's almost been a year.
    No one has filed a lawsuit or claim against the U.S. government for collecting the money or for allegedly entrapping the students.
    Maybe it will be different after those recruiters serve their sentences but right now seemingly no one is going to fight.

    Orcakime
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    It's entrapment, which is illegal and I hope every judge that has to hear this case tells ICE and DHS to get fucked because they had no fucking business doing this shit. I hope then, that the victims do sue the government and successfully win lots of money, so that we can all turn around and rub the ICE's, Trump's, DHS and all the other fucking sack of shits collective faces in and point out how they ended up wasting a shit ton of money. After all if they didn't resort to an illegal tactic, the government wouldn't have gotten sued and they wouldn't have waste resources on an illegal activity.

    I doubt they'd be able to sue since they've been deported. Also I doubt they'll even be getting back the money they paid to the institution/air fare/other expenses.

    Which considering the income of the average indian family is probably life destroying.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
    FencingsaxIncenjucarSpoitOrcaCalicaToxJaysonFourmonikerBloodsheedkimeLord_Asmodeus
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    It's entrapment, which is illegal and I hope every judge that has to hear this case tells ICE and DHS to get fucked because they had no fucking business doing this shit. I hope then, that the victims do sue the government and successfully win lots of money, so that we can all turn around and rub the ICE's, Trump's, DHS and all the other fucking sack of shits collective faces in and point out how they ended up wasting a shit ton of money. After all if they didn't resort to an illegal tactic, the government wouldn't have gotten sued and they wouldn't have waste resources on an illegal activity.

    I doubt they'd be able to sue since they've been deported. Also I doubt they'll even be getting back the money they paid to the institution/air fare/other expenses.

    Which considering the income of the average indian family is probably life destroying.

    Presumably these people were aspiring middle class rather than the poor.

    shryke
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    The lesson ICE took from the Nuremberg trials is that documenting your atrocities can get you prosecuted.

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
    BlackDragon480ShadowhopeIncenjucarSpoitEmerlmaster999BigJoeMFencingsaxOrcaElldrenDarkPrimusShadowfireStabbity StyleSolaremp123ToxthatassemblyguypainfulPleasanceMrVyngaardJaysonFourmonikerMegaMekRaijuBloodsheedkimeMild ConfusionApogeeLord_AsmodeusHefflingLovelyKoopahTroopahnever die
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Shocking.

    Stef W. Knight of Axios: DHS never had systems needed to track separated migrant kids under zero tolerance, the new IG report found. It can't confirm how many families were separated or reunited.

    Oh, and the policy wasn't effective.

    Everyone has moved on to the new scandal of the day but we are still torturing children in concentration camps.

    I wasn't aware this was even a question. We learned early on that CBP wasn't keeping track of, or communicating to ICE/HHS, which kids were unaccompanied and which were kidnapped separated.

    I think the "question" was that the procedures weren't being properly followed, intentionally or not. That if everything had been done by the book, it wouldn't be such a clusterfuck. The report makes it clear there were no procedures in the first place, and that any reunifications were more good luck, than the system actually working.

    We knew it wasn't working properly. We just didn't have confirmation it was never intended to.

    ElldrenmonikerRaiju
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited November 28
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    If this were actually about fake institutions allowing this, they would be enrolling fake students in these 'universities' and then arresting and fining owners that were profiting off the scam. This in turn, stops those who are trying to take advantage of such a scam. Seems to me that if the people signing up for these 'know its a scam' you could prevent hundreds from coming here under false pretenses by just holding these schools accountable instead. When one gets caught, they all think twice. Right now, the message is 'you get the money and if you accidentally get a real student you can call ice on them to keep them from blabbing or giving them a refund'

    edit: I bet the time and resources necessary for researching and finding fake schools sure would be cheaper on the taxpayer than mass importing prisoners we have to support, but one is way more profitable for private prisons.

    DiannaoChong on
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  • painfulPleasancepainfulPleasance Registered User regular
    edited November 29
    So they induced people into illegal activities, then made informants of those they caught and had them do an entrapment pyramid scheme... just so they can have a bigger catch?

    painfulPleasance on
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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    So they induced people into illegal activities, then made informants of those they caught and had them do an entrapment pyramid scheme... just so they can have a bigger catch?

    I'm sure the fact that the people they were after paid cash money tuition fees to the fake school had no impact on their decisions.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    tynicpainfulPleasance
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    CouscousElvenshaeFencingsaxBlackDragon480DarkPrimusElldrenToxBloodsheedMartini_Philosopheremp123NobeardCommander ZoomLord_AsmodeuspainfulPleasanceiTunesIsEvilMan in the MistsLadaiYamiB.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 29
    I am sure a ton of Americans when looking at it would go, "well, that is weird but it is accredited," not even speaking of foreigners.

    Couscous on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    It doesn’t really matter if many didn’t if some did.

    fuck gendered marketing
    painfulPleasance
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    CouscousFencingsaxBlackDragon480ElldrenSpoitemp123painfulPleasanceShadowfireElvenshaeMan in the MistsStabbity Style
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Even if the scam was clear by the end point, that's well after any criminal activity would have occurred, and also after folks had already spent money on this "school." People have a hard time accepting sunk cost and I can absolutely see someone not finding out about the scam until they're already at a point where backing out would cost them enough that they have a serious discussion of "well maybe I won't get caught" and they keep going.
    That's the entrapment. If the school had been legit, they would have never considered the fraud. They didn't go looking to commit fraud, and they weren't trying to commit fraud.

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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    Even if the scam was clear by the end point, that's well after any criminal activity would have occurred, and also after folks had already spent money on this "school." People have a hard time accepting sunk cost and I can absolutely see someone not finding out about the scam until they're already at a point where backing out would cost them enough that they have a serious discussion of "well maybe I won't get caught" and they keep going.
    That's the entrapment. If the school had been legit, they would have never considered the fraud. They didn't go looking to commit fraud, and they weren't trying to commit fraud.

    Yeah

    Entrapment is explicitly about inducement to a crime. Basically if the statement “if not for the actions of the arresting agency a crime would not have occurred” is true, it’s entrapment on the part of the agency

    fuck gendered marketing
    monikerElvenshaeMan in the MistsDee Kae
  • RaijuRaiju regular Registered User regular
    Lovely wrote: »
    I think you guys are giving too much credit to this "firm he knows" being a real company. It's probably just a shell company that he can skim from. I imagine it's named Pmurt or something.

    F̶r̶a̶u̶d̶ Grift Guarantee.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    Trump University actually held classes though.

    Like, the hypothesis that these students all thought this was real and just got swindled does not seem that strong imo. Some of the articles from back when this dropped at the start suggested that many people never even tried to attend the school or had signed up as a way to keep their student visa alive for a little longer or the like.

    The whole thing is obviously still hugely unethical though. (maybe illegal too, ask a lawyer) That's not really incompatible with the idea that there were people signing up knowing this shit wasn't real though.

    Nobeard
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    Trump University actually held classes though.

    Like, the hypothesis that these students all thought this was real and just got swindled does not seem that strong imo. Some of the articles from back when this dropped at the start suggested that many people never even tried to attend the school or had signed up as a way to keep their student visa alive for a little longer or the like.

    The whole thing is obviously still hugely unethical though. (maybe illegal too, ask a lawyer) That's not really incompatible with the idea that there were people signing up knowing this shit wasn't real though.

    We're not saying NOBODY knew until it was too late And you're not saying EVERYONE knew right away.
    So we all agree, some likely figured it out early enough to walk away no harm no foul, and some probably didn't figure it out until they were knocking on a door trying to head to class, and most were probably somewhere in between.

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    Nobeard
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Records filed with the state Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs (LARA) show that the University of Farmington was incorporated in January 2016
    Coolcoolcool cool cool coooool
    Tox wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    Trump University actually held classes though.

    Like, the hypothesis that these students all thought this was real and just got swindled does not seem that strong imo. Some of the articles from back when this dropped at the start suggested that many people never even tried to attend the school or had signed up as a way to keep their student visa alive for a little longer or the like.

    The whole thing is obviously still hugely unethical though. (maybe illegal too, ask a lawyer) That's not really incompatible with the idea that there were people signing up knowing this shit wasn't real though.

    We're not saying NOBODY knew until it was too late And you're not saying EVERYONE knew right away.
    So we all agree, some likely figured it out early enough to walk away no harm no foul, and some probably didn't figure it out until they were knocking on a door trying to head to class, and most were probably somewhere in between.

    No, some figured it out and got caught anyways.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    shryke
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Records filed with the state Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs (LARA) show that the University of Farmington was incorporated in January 2016
    Coolcoolcool cool cool coooool
    Tox wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    Trump University actually held classes though.

    Like, the hypothesis that these students all thought this was real and just got swindled does not seem that strong imo. Some of the articles from back when this dropped at the start suggested that many people never even tried to attend the school or had signed up as a way to keep their student visa alive for a little longer or the like.

    The whole thing is obviously still hugely unethical though. (maybe illegal too, ask a lawyer) That's not really incompatible with the idea that there were people signing up knowing this shit wasn't real though.

    We're not saying NOBODY knew until it was too late And you're not saying EVERYONE knew right away.
    So we all agree, some likely figured it out early enough to walk away no harm no foul, and some probably didn't figure it out until they were knocking on a door trying to head to class, and most were probably somewhere in between.

    No, some figured it out and got caught anyways.

    And, again, most of the reason frauds lasts as long as they do is because the defrauded don't want to go through the hassle of reporting it. Especially people from marginalized communities. Like, say, immigrant students who need to constantly play Visa roulette. They may not have bothered trying to attend after realizing it was bullshit (which, how many emails did they send out asking for information to the registrar beforehand? How many phonecalls to their fake phone number?) but then tried to sign up at another school instead rather than banging on the door in an office park.

    There's a whole list on Wikipedia of all the various for profit universities that have been shuttered. The victims of those frauds are victims, not perpetrators.

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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    edited November 29
    Tox wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    Trump University actually held classes though.

    Like, the hypothesis that these students all thought this was real and just got swindled does not seem that strong imo. Some of the articles from back when this dropped at the start suggested that many people never even tried to attend the school or had signed up as a way to keep their student visa alive for a little longer or the like.

    The whole thing is obviously still hugely unethical though. (maybe illegal too, ask a lawyer) That's not really incompatible with the idea that there were people signing up knowing this shit wasn't real though.

    We're not saying NOBODY knew until it was too late And you're not saying EVERYONE knew right away.
    So we all agree, some likely figured it out early enough to walk away no harm no foul, and some probably didn't figure it out until they were knocking on a door trying to head to class, and most were probably somewhere in between.

    If the number of people acting in good faith who were actively defrauded by the US government is >0 it’s a serious fucking issue

    The existence of any number of people who were attempting fraud themselves is not exonerating

    Edit: for emphasis

    Elldren on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Records filed with the state Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs (LARA) show that the University of Farmington was incorporated in January 2016
    Coolcoolcool cool cool coooool
    Tox wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    Trump University actually held classes though.

    Like, the hypothesis that these students all thought this was real and just got swindled does not seem that strong imo. Some of the articles from back when this dropped at the start suggested that many people never even tried to attend the school or had signed up as a way to keep their student visa alive for a little longer or the like.

    The whole thing is obviously still hugely unethical though. (maybe illegal too, ask a lawyer) That's not really incompatible with the idea that there were people signing up knowing this shit wasn't real though.

    We're not saying NOBODY knew until it was too late And you're not saying EVERYONE knew right away.
    So we all agree, some likely figured it out early enough to walk away no harm no foul, and some probably didn't figure it out until they were knocking on a door trying to head to class, and most were probably somewhere in between.

    No, some figured it out and got caught anyways.

    Yeah, I'm trying to find the article where I read it but I believe it's been reported that some people signed up, realised it was a scam, transferred somewhere else and DHS still went after them.

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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    The real lesson is we need to reform our broken immigration laws so this kind of scam doesn't happen in the first place.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
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  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited November 29
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    Trump University actually held classes though.

    Like, the hypothesis that these students all thought this was real and just got swindled does not seem that strong imo. Some of the articles from back when this dropped at the start suggested that many people never even tried to attend the school or had signed up as a way to keep their student visa alive for a little longer or the like.

    The whole thing is obviously still hugely unethical though. (maybe illegal too, ask a lawyer) That's not really incompatible with the idea that there were people signing up knowing this shit wasn't real though.

    Why is any of this necessary if the students never intended to take the classes? When they flunk out of a 'real' school, then go after them? It all boils down to 'why arent you actually going after the fake schools instead of luring foreigners here just to imprison them'

    edit: Even saying 'at some point they had to realize it was all a fake school', what would you have them do about it once they are on US soil? apply to a different school after the semester has started and its too late?

    DiannaoChong on
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  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    Trump University actually held classes though.

    Like, the hypothesis that these students all thought this was real and just got swindled does not seem that strong imo. Some of the articles from back when this dropped at the start suggested that many people never even tried to attend the school or had signed up as a way to keep their student visa alive for a little longer or the like.

    The whole thing is obviously still hugely unethical though. (maybe illegal too, ask a lawyer) That's not really incompatible with the idea that there were people signing up knowing this shit wasn't real though.

    Why is any of this necessary if the students never intended to take the classes? When they flunk out of a 'real' school, then go after them? It all boils down to 'why arent you actually going after the fake schools instead of luring foreigners here just to imprison them'

    edit: Even saying 'at some point they had to realize it was all a fake school', what would you have them do about it once they are on US soil? apply to a different school after the semester has started and its too late?

    Your question may be rhetorical, but I feel compelled to expand on the mindset that leads to this place.
    One of the aggravating things for nationalists is that the vast majority of students who come to the US are well behaved. Like, obnoxiously so. They tend to be serious minded, long term goal oriented, and possibly most damning of all, a great vindication of those who believe in soft power. Those who don't stay tend to go home and advocate for democratic reforms and a generally better public sphere. Those who do stay tend to bring their families along. Either way, the US has stronger ties to a globally connected community and therefore are able to influence events on the world stage without having to resort to the military to enforce anything.
    So for those who like isolation (but covertly love the idea of controlling the world at the end of a gun barrel *cough*MAD*cough), who like american "exceptionalism" (and enforcing US corp's will everywhere else *cough*UnitedFruitCompany*cough**cough*CIACoups*cough*), and generally don't want to be bothered by participating on the world stage (but love being the center of attention*cough*UN*cough*), having students come to the US is a slap in the face. Nevermind how it broadens the minds of the other students to meet, study, engage, possibly even marry people from other places in the world. None of those positives outweigh the negative of contact.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited November 29
    arguing about whether or not the students knew it was a scam to bilk US Visas feels like it plays into the whole plan of "Create a fake university to get immigrants to apply for student visas in order to undermine the student visa system as a vector for abusive scammy foreigners" fairly well.

    Maybe we shouldn't play into that and reject this for what it was: an attempt by nationalists in the government to undermine the immigration system, as noted in the literal statement they put out about how this totally shows that there's greater risk than benefit for student visa programs

    Lanz on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Some of the students were already in the USA but were looking for another school after the ones they were going to lost accreditation, which suggests they were not trying to commit fraud.

    The fake school was literally on the ICE website as an approved university.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    But if these three-letter agencies don't act like every cliche of corrupt Southern small-town sheriffs writ large, how will we Keep America White Great?

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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    But if these three-letter agencies don't act like every cliche of corrupt Southern small-town sheriffs writ large, how will we Keep America White Great?

    ICE isn’t a three-letter agency

    It’s a four-letter word

    fuck gendered marketing
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  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Records filed with the state Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs (LARA) show that the University of Farmington was incorporated in January 2016
    Coolcoolcool cool cool coooool
    Tox wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    Trump University actually held classes though.

    Like, the hypothesis that these students all thought this was real and just got swindled does not seem that strong imo. Some of the articles from back when this dropped at the start suggested that many people never even tried to attend the school or had signed up as a way to keep their student visa alive for a little longer or the like.

    The whole thing is obviously still hugely unethical though. (maybe illegal too, ask a lawyer) That's not really incompatible with the idea that there were people signing up knowing this shit wasn't real though.

    We're not saying NOBODY knew until it was too late And you're not saying EVERYONE knew right away.
    So we all agree, some likely figured it out early enough to walk away no harm no foul, and some probably didn't figure it out until they were knocking on a door trying to head to class, and most were probably somewhere in between.

    No, some figured it out and got caught anyways.

    How is that not what the fuck I said?

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