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US Immigration Policy - Travel advisory: don't go to the South if you're Hispanic/Latino

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Posts

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 30
    Tox wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Records filed with the state Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs (LARA) show that the University of Farmington was incorporated in January 2016
    Coolcoolcool cool cool coooool
    Tox wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    Trump University actually held classes though.

    Like, the hypothesis that these students all thought this was real and just got swindled does not seem that strong imo. Some of the articles from back when this dropped at the start suggested that many people never even tried to attend the school or had signed up as a way to keep their student visa alive for a little longer or the like.

    The whole thing is obviously still hugely unethical though. (maybe illegal too, ask a lawyer) That's not really incompatible with the idea that there were people signing up knowing this shit wasn't real though.

    We're not saying NOBODY knew until it was too late And you're not saying EVERYONE knew right away.
    So we all agree, some likely figured it out early enough to walk away no harm no foul, and some probably didn't figure it out until they were knocking on a door trying to head to class, and most were probably somewhere in between.

    No, some figured it out and got caught anyways.

    How is that not what the fuck I said?

    "No harm, No foul" implies they weren't deported.

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Records filed with the state Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs (LARA) show that the University of Farmington was incorporated in January 2016
    Coolcoolcool cool cool coooool
    Tox wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    Trump University actually held classes though.

    Like, the hypothesis that these students all thought this was real and just got swindled does not seem that strong imo. Some of the articles from back when this dropped at the start suggested that many people never even tried to attend the school or had signed up as a way to keep their student visa alive for a little longer or the like.

    The whole thing is obviously still hugely unethical though. (maybe illegal too, ask a lawyer) That's not really incompatible with the idea that there were people signing up knowing this shit wasn't real though.

    We're not saying NOBODY knew until it was too late And you're not saying EVERYONE knew right away.
    So we all agree, some likely figured it out early enough to walk away no harm no foul, and some probably didn't figure it out until they were knocking on a door trying to head to class, and most were probably somewhere in between.

    No, some figured it out and got caught anyways.

    How is that not what the fuck I said?

    "No harm, No foul" implies they weren't deported.

    Not everyone got deported

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 30
    Yes, but not everyone who walked away didn't get screwed. In fact, everyone did, because they didn't get their money back, from what I understand.

    Fencingsax on
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Records filed with the state Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs (LARA) show that the University of Farmington was incorporated in January 2016
    Coolcoolcool cool cool coooool
    Tox wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Gaze in aww at that amount of nonsense.

    How is this nonsense?
    "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
    The scam was clear; Indians paid thousands for a semester as they would to any sham university and *wink wink* received a passing grade and another 6 months to work in the US. The update to this story is there are still "students" being found and arrested in Michigan months after the sting ended.

    Yep, the scam was clear. All you had to do was believe that DHS and an independent accreditation agency were lying to you in order to deport you for...trusting DHS and an accreditation agency.

    Where were the classes then? Like, we know some people apparently actually tried to go to school at this non-existent place. But many, at least from what I've read in the reporting, didn't.

    This does beyond just trusting that it was real because it was accredited.

    The same place Trump University classes were held. I'm not too surprised at foreign students believing they were swindled just trying to move on and find a different school rather than hire lawyers to try and maybe get a refund. Which... there are still people waiting on the refund for DeVry who don't have nearly as many pressing concerns as their immigration status hanging over them.

    Trump University actually held classes though.

    Like, the hypothesis that these students all thought this was real and just got swindled does not seem that strong imo. Some of the articles from back when this dropped at the start suggested that many people never even tried to attend the school or had signed up as a way to keep their student visa alive for a little longer or the like.

    The whole thing is obviously still hugely unethical though. (maybe illegal too, ask a lawyer) That's not really incompatible with the idea that there were people signing up knowing this shit wasn't real though.

    We're not saying NOBODY knew until it was too late And you're not saying EVERYONE knew right away.
    So we all agree, some likely figured it out early enough to walk away no harm no foul, and some probably didn't figure it out until they were knocking on a door trying to head to class, and most were probably somewhere in between.

    No, some figured it out and got caught anyways.

    How is that not what the fuck I said?

    "No harm, No foul" implies they weren't deported.

    Not everyone got deported

    Yeah, some were only defrauded by the Federal Government...

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Some of the students were already in the USA but were looking for another school after the ones they were going to lost accreditation, which suggests they were not trying to commit fraud.

    The fake school was literally on the ICE website as an approved university.

    I would argue that once the resources of the state are involved in faking something it should just be assumed that it's going to fool people. To the point where I'd argue it should just be presumed in court, and the government isn't allowed to argue otherwise.

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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited November 30
    the godforsaken Department of Homeland Security should not get to say a college or university is real when it's goddamn not. Nor should any legitimate accreditation agency be allowed to claim the same.

    Lanz on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    The consulting agency McKinsley decided to be really evil.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/how-mckinsey-helped-the-trump-administration-implement-its-immigration-policies
    How McKinsey Helped the Trump Administration Detain and Deport Immigrants
    But the money-saving recommendations the consultants came up with made some career ICE staff uncomfortable. They proposed cuts in spending on food for migrants, as well as on medical care and supervision of detainees, according to interviews with people who worked on the project for both ICE and McKinsey and 1,500 pages of documents obtained from the agency after ProPublica filed a lawsuit under the Freedom of Information Act.

    McKinsey’s team also looked for ways to accelerate the deportation process, provoking worries among some ICE staff members that the recommendations risked short-circuiting due process protections for migrants fighting removal from the United States. The consultants, three people who worked on the project said, seemed focused solely on cutting costs and speeding up deportations — activities whose success could be measured in numbers — with little acknowledgment that these policies affected thousands of human beings.

    In what one former official described as “heated meetings” with McKinsey consultants, agency staff members questioned whether saving pennies on food and medical care for detainees justified the potential human cost.

    But the consulting firm’s sway at ICE grew to the point that McKinsey’s staff even ghostwrote a government contracting document that defined the consulting team’s own responsibilities and justified the firm’s retention, a contract extension worth $2.2 million. “Can they do that?” an ICE official wrote to a contracting officer in May 2017.
    The McKinsey proposals that most troubled agency staffers — like cutting spending on food, medical care and maintenance — were not incorporated into the new contracts, one former ICE official said. Internal project emails point to cutbacks in guard staffing as the source of most cost savings.

    But the McKinsey recommendations remain on the books at ICE. The consultants analyzed how the agency could save money at detention centers beyond those where they helped renegotiate contracts — including several near the border, like ICE’s largest family detention facility, in Dilley, Texas — and Cox said these analyses remain reference points for future efforts to curb spending. A report issued this summer by the Department of Homeland Security’s inspector general raised concerns about food quality and upkeep at several ICE facilities, both categories on which McKinsey recommended ICE spend less.
    That sounds like advocating for a crime against humanity.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    McKinsey has always been evil.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    McKinsey has always been evil.

    That company needs to be disbanded and all higher ups prosecuted

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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Richland, WARegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    The consulting agency McKinsley decided to be really evil.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/how-mckinsey-helped-the-trump-administration-implement-its-immigration-policies
    How McKinsey Helped the Trump Administration Detain and Deport Immigrants
    But the money-saving recommendations the consultants came up with made some career ICE staff uncomfortable. They proposed cuts in spending on food for migrants, as well as on medical care and supervision of detainees, according to interviews with people who worked on the project for both ICE and McKinsey and 1,500 pages of documents obtained from the agency after ProPublica filed a lawsuit under the Freedom of Information Act.

    McKinsey’s team also looked for ways to accelerate the deportation process, provoking worries among some ICE staff members that the recommendations risked short-circuiting due process protections for migrants fighting removal from the United States. The consultants, three people who worked on the project said, seemed focused solely on cutting costs and speeding up deportations — activities whose success could be measured in numbers — with little acknowledgment that these policies affected thousands of human beings.

    In what one former official described as “heated meetings” with McKinsey consultants, agency staff members questioned whether saving pennies on food and medical care for detainees justified the potential human cost.

    But the consulting firm’s sway at ICE grew to the point that McKinsey’s staff even ghostwrote a government contracting document that defined the consulting team’s own responsibilities and justified the firm’s retention, a contract extension worth $2.2 million. “Can they do that?” an ICE official wrote to a contracting officer in May 2017.
    The McKinsey proposals that most troubled agency staffers — like cutting spending on food, medical care and maintenance — were not incorporated into the new contracts, one former ICE official said. Internal project emails point to cutbacks in guard staffing as the source of most cost savings.

    But the McKinsey recommendations remain on the books at ICE. The consultants analyzed how the agency could save money at detention centers beyond those where they helped renegotiate contracts — including several near the border, like ICE’s largest family detention facility, in Dilley, Texas — and Cox said these analyses remain reference points for future efforts to curb spending. A report issued this summer by the Department of Homeland Security’s inspector general raised concerns about food quality and upkeep at several ICE facilities, both categories on which McKinsey recommended ICE spend less.
    That sounds like advocating for a crime against humanity.

    I know a way ICE could save $2.2 million.

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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    McKinsey has always been evil.

    It's like that part in the movie where the where the arrogant, racist bully from act one turns out to be more nuanced than they first seemed, and the mild-mannered business man is revealed to be a literal demon wearing human skin venture capitalist.

    ElldrenTicaldfjampainfulPleasanceCommander ZoomFencingsaxDrovekNobeard
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    For anyone who wants to hear one of the saddest things they've ever heard, This American Life did something on the refugee camps on our border a few weeks ago:

    https://www.thisamericanlife.org/688/the-out-crowd

    It interviews some immigration officers, as well as some immigrants who underwent a kidnapping, and others.

    Transcript is available there. But be warned: this is intensely depressing.

    Lovely
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    But the money-saving recommendations the consultants came up with made some career ICE staff uncomfortable.

    I stopped right there, because holy shit.

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  • painfulPleasancepainfulPleasance Registered User regular
    Remember every time a veteran has ever mentioned private military contractors? McKinsey is a company that hires those contractors to enforce its will.

    Ticaldfjamautono-wally, erotibot300MegaMek
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    But the money-saving recommendations the consultants came up with made some career ICE staff uncomfortable.

    I stopped right there, because holy shit.

    It’s like what happens when you take the evils of racism and multiply it by the evils of unfettered capitalism: Let’s keep them around just long enough to maximize their exploitation before they die/we send them back to die.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    But the money-saving recommendations the consultants came up with made some career ICE staff uncomfortable.

    I stopped right there, because holy shit.

    It's the difference between racists and MBAs.

    ICE seems them as filthy foreigners who need to be sent home.

    The consultants don't even see them as human. They are nothing more then part of some number on a balance sheet. These numbers needs to go up, these ones need to go down, what that actually means in the real world to real people is honestly inconvenient to have to consider so let's just ignore it.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Fuck am I reading that essay in the 1619 Project again

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    But the money-saving recommendations the consultants came up with made some career ICE staff uncomfortable.

    I stopped right there, because holy shit.

    It's the difference between racists and MBAs.

    ICE seems them as filthy foreigners who need to be sent home.

    The consultants don't even see them as human. They are nothing more then part of some number on a balance sheet. These numbers needs to go up, these ones need to go down, what that actually means in the real world to real people is honestly inconvenient to have to consider so let's just ignore it.

    I understand this and its a good point, but on the other hand when you hire a consulting firm to deal with the literal question “how can I help more cheaply run my concentration camps?”, you probably shouldn’t be surprised when they assume you don’t care that much about human life and suffering.

    ElvenshaekimeNobeardKaroz
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Well if you assume all the immigrants are spherical...

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    But the money-saving recommendations the consultants came up with made some career ICE staff uncomfortable.

    I stopped right there, because holy shit.

    It's the difference between racists and MBAs.

    ICE seems them as filthy foreigners who need to be sent home.

    The consultants don't even see them as human. They are nothing more then part of some number on a balance sheet. These numbers needs to go up, these ones need to go down, what that actually means in the real world to real people is honestly inconvenient to have to consider so let's just ignore it.

    I understand this and its a good point, but on the other hand when you hire a consulting firm to deal with the literal question “how can I help more cheaply run my concentration camps?”, you probably shouldn’t be surprised when they assume you don’t care that much about human life and suffering.

    They would give this kind of advice to any one in any situation. They don't give a shit.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Combining a couple of the above threads, I'm imagining a bunch of guys in SS ICE uniforms around the table all looking at each other uncomfortably, until one of them finally says, "Look, I know we're supposed to be evil and all, but Jesus."
    And the plain grey man in the plain grey suit frowns very slightly and responds, "My fee goes up a thousand dollars every time you say... that name."

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Propublica just caught ICE basically killing yet another kid in the camps.
    Carlos Gregorio Hernandez Vasquez, a 16-year-old Guatemalan migrant, was seriously ill when immigration agents put him in a small South Texas holding cell with another sick boy on the afternoon of May 19.

    A few hours earlier, a nurse practitioner at the Border Patrol’s dangerously overcrowded processing center in McAllen had diagnosed him with the flu and measured his fever at 103 degrees. She said that he should be checked again in two hours and taken to the emergency room if his condition worsened.

    None of that happened. Worried that Carlos might infect other migrants in the teeming McAllen facility, officials moved him to a cell for quarantine at a Border Patrol station in nearby Weslaco.

    By the next morning, he was dead.

    Short version: ICE claims he had medical care and regular wellness checks logged through the night; Propublica has the timestamped video of the cell which proves - despite ICE editing the video! - that nothing of the sort happened and their first indication that something was up was when the kid's cellmate (who, y'know, spent the night in a small space with someone suffering from severe influenza and pneumonia) woke up, found the body, and knocked on the cell door until ICE personnel finally checked in. They then doctored the overnight logs, cut several hours out of the cell footage, and ... basically shrugged about the whole thing.

    Long version: the article and attached video are... about as unpleasant as that implies.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Nuremburg the whole fucking organization.

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  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited December 6
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Propublica just caught ICE basically killing yet another kid in the camps.
    Carlos Gregorio Hernandez Vasquez, a 16-year-old Guatemalan migrant, was seriously ill when immigration agents put him in a small South Texas holding cell with another sick boy on the afternoon of May 19.

    A few hours earlier, a nurse practitioner at the Border Patrol’s dangerously overcrowded processing center in McAllen had diagnosed him with the flu and measured his fever at 103 degrees. She said that he should be checked again in two hours and taken to the emergency room if his condition worsened.

    None of that happened. Worried that Carlos might infect other migrants in the teeming McAllen facility, officials moved him to a cell for quarantine at a Border Patrol station in nearby Weslaco.

    By the next morning, he was dead.

    Short version: ICE claims he had medical care and regular wellness checks logged through the night; Propublica has the timestamped video of the cell which proves - despite ICE editing the video! - that nothing of the sort happened and their first indication that something was up was when the kid's cellmate (who, y'know, spent the night in a small space with someone suffering from severe influenza and pneumonia) woke up, found the body, and knocked on the cell door until ICE personnel finally checked in. They then doctored the overnight logs, cut several hours out of the cell footage, and ... basically shrugged about the whole thing.

    Long version: the article and attached video are... about as unpleasant as that implies.

    CBP, not ICE.

    I don't say this to be pedantic,

    -I think 'Abolish ICE' is an acceptable shorthand for fixing a system that spans three agencies and multiple departments, and, as such, generally condemning 'ICE' is a convenient shorthand for condemning our immigration system in general-

    I just want to be clear about which TLA must be held to account for each specific atrocity. Both out of principle, and for when they point to this incident at a CBP facility as a reason to give ICE more money.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
    If we ever reach a point where you need to apologize for being pedantic here, just delete my account.

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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Propublica just caught ICE basically killing yet another kid in the camps.
    Carlos Gregorio Hernandez Vasquez, a 16-year-old Guatemalan migrant, was seriously ill when immigration agents put him in a small South Texas holding cell with another sick boy on the afternoon of May 19.

    A few hours earlier, a nurse practitioner at the Border Patrol’s dangerously overcrowded processing center in McAllen had diagnosed him with the flu and measured his fever at 103 degrees. She said that he should be checked again in two hours and taken to the emergency room if his condition worsened.

    None of that happened. Worried that Carlos might infect other migrants in the teeming McAllen facility, officials moved him to a cell for quarantine at a Border Patrol station in nearby Weslaco.

    By the next morning, he was dead.

    Short version: ICE claims he had medical care and regular wellness checks logged through the night; Propublica has the timestamped video of the cell which proves - despite ICE editing the video! - that nothing of the sort happened and their first indication that something was up was when the kid's cellmate (who, y'know, spent the night in a small space with someone suffering from severe influenza and pneumonia) woke up, found the body, and knocked on the cell door until ICE personnel finally checked in. They then doctored the overnight logs, cut several hours out of the cell footage, and ... basically shrugged about the whole thing.

    Long version: the article and attached video are... about as unpleasant as that implies.

    CBP, not ICE.

    I don't say this to be pedantic,

    -I think 'Abolish ICE' is an acceptable shorthand for fixing a system that spans three agencies and multiple departments, and, as such, generally condemning 'ICE' is a convenient shorthand for condemning our immigration system in general-

    I just want to be clear about which TLA must be held to account for each specific atrocity. Both out of principle, and for when they point to this incident at a CBP facility as a reason to give ICE more money.

    The very fact that we have not one but two organizations with overlapping portfolios is already a failure in and of itself. That both commit unconscionable horrors in the course of their activities speaks volumes about the direction to them from the highest levels

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited 2:50AM
    A judge blocked the Admin from reappropriating military funds for his wall. The ruling affects about $3.5 billion they were planning on using. Some money is still free, but it's still a positive ruling.

    Fencingsax at
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