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Convicted Pedophile Jeffrey Epstein Commits Suicide, WTF Feds

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Posts

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    A lot of the protection against prisoners escaping prison is that you will make things worse for yourself and being caught afterwards is almost guaranteed. Even if you are going to be in prison for life, you can absolutely make things even worse for yourself.

    Not for El Chapo, he was a famous gang boss who had already escaped many times.

  • PeccaviPeccavi Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-jail-officers.html
    The two staff members who were guarding the jail unit where Jeffrey Epstein apparently killed himself fell asleep and failed to check on him for about three hours, then falsified records to cover up their mistake, according to several law enforcement and prison officials with knowledge of the matter.
    This is honestly not surprising given the state of prisons.

    Edit: Basically, it is going to be depressing telling conspiracy theorists that the only thing abnormal about all this is the prison forgot they needed to actually follow the rules when a ton of eyes are on them but they are incompetent so even that is kind of expected.

    Yeah, this is from the Mother Jones report in 2014
    I ask one of the regular white-shirted COs what an average day in seg looks like. “To be honest with you, normally we just sit here at this table all day long,” he tells me. They are supposed to walk up and down the eight tiers every 30 minutes to check on the inmates, but he says they never do that. (CCA says it had no knowledge of guards at Winn skipping security checks before I inquired about it.)

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-prisons-corrections-corporation-inmates-investigation-bauer/

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-jail-officers.html
    The two staff members who were guarding the jail unit where Jeffrey Epstein apparently killed himself fell asleep and failed to check on him for about three hours, then falsified records to cover up their mistake, according to several law enforcement and prison officials with knowledge of the matter.
    This is honestly not surprising given the state of prisons.

    Edit: Basically, it is going to be depressing telling conspiracy theorists that the only thing abnormal about all this is the prison forgot they needed to actually follow the rules when a ton of eyes are on them but they are incompetent so even that is kind of expected.

    At this point my main question is about how common suicide is (statistically) at these facilities because given the security around Epstein it basically seems like they aren't even trying to stop people from killing themselves and so if this wasn't unusual we should have some numbers on that.

    As last reported in 2016, 2014 saw 372 suicides in local jails throughout the United States, resulting in a suicide rate of 50 deaths per 100,000 inmates. In state and federal prisons, 249 inmates died by suicide during 2014, resulting in a suicide rate of 20 deaths per 100,000 inmates.

    What do these numbers mean? Several things. First, until 2014, there had been a significant decrease in the rate of suicide in jails throughout the United States. My studies of jail suicides for the Justice Department found that suicides had decreased by two-thirds over 20 years, from 107 per 100,000 inmates in 1986 to approximately 36 suicides per 100,000 inmates in 2006. Many believe that the suicide rate has continued to rise since the Justice Department’s last data dump in 2016, but we cannot be sure—because there are no data

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/jeffrey-epstein-part-larger-suicide-problem/595918/

    Though that is systemwide rather than specific to MCC New York. You could probably drill down into the report on DOJ.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.

  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.
    It's not that be I've been seeing it since the photographs of his body were released

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.
    It's not that be I've been seeing it since the photographs of his body were released

    There is some noise about the pictures not looking right, but yeah, 99% of the conspiracy theorism around Epstein is Q/Pizzagate. Cops/guards/nearly all of Epstein's rich associates actually go against the overarching Q theory, so it's Clintons all the way down.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Makes sense that simple incompetence was the cause. Two guards on a night shift fell asleep. No big conspiracy theory needed.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.

    How on earth did you get that from what I was saying? I just meant that security at this supposedly “high security jail” is obviously very lax.

    I think that possibly you guys have not heard of El Chapo? He’s a mob boss who was held at the same jail while awaiting trial. He was famous for escaping prisons in his native Mexico. He was charged and held in the US specifically so he didn’t escape again. At the time, much was made of how he would be completely unable to escape from the super high security jail - which we have now found out, has all the security of a rural lock-up.

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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.

    How on earth did you get that from what I was saying? I just meant that security at this supposedly “high security jail” is obviously very lax.

    I think that possibly you guys have not heard of El Chapo? He’s a mob boss who was held at the same jail while awaiting trial. He was famous for escaping prisons in his native Mexico. He was charged and held in the US specifically so he didn’t escape again. At the time, much was made of how he would be completely unable to escape from the super high security jail - which we have now found out, has all the security of a rural lock-up.

    Escape being a security issue and suicide being a medical issue likely plays a big part

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.

    How on earth did you get that from what I was saying? I just meant that security at this supposedly “high security jail” is obviously very lax.

    I think that possibly you guys have not heard of El Chapo? He’s a mob boss who was held at the same jail while awaiting trial. He was famous for escaping prisons in his native Mexico. He was charged and held in the US specifically so he didn’t escape again. At the time, much was made of how he would be completely unable to escape from the super high security jail - which we have now found out, has all the security of a rural lock-up.

    Escape being a security issue and suicide being a medical issue likely plays a big part

    Both guards being asleep seems like a security issue...

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  • mrpakumrpaku Registered User regular
    I worked in a treatment center for at a
    risk youth when I was in my early twenties, and if you worked the overnight, you had a checklist for making visual contact with every individual on your unit every twenty minutes. It you had a kid on a blue form, they were on self harm watch, and needed to be checked every *five* minutes (even though in practice, it ends up being far more often)

    The fact that me and a bunch of broke fucking kids, subsidizing the youth treatment industry, could properly overnight monitor teenagers forcefully trying to eat cement and bash their own brains in, but a couple of career officials who *work overnights* were too tie-tie and let this fucker escape justice, makes me think the whole entire system needs to be torn down

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I believe someone mentioned earlier that overworked guards is something the prison guard union supports because it means more overtime for their people.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    So what are the chances that the guards were being overworked and the prison administration is going to be free of responsibility because nobody likes lazy people?

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Well if its true they falsified reports they'll probably get fired. But that'll be the end of it. Two guards just fell asleep overnight lied about it and got fired.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Well if its true they falsified reports they'll probably get fired. But that'll be the end of it. Two guards just fell asleep overnight lied about it and got fired.

    To bring it back to paranoia time, I'd be interested to see if these guards can prove they simply fell asleep.

  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    Frankly I'm just dissatisfied with two guys being punished rather than the system that allows for this shit to happen.

    Like, if both the administration and the union are totes fine with overworked employees, and this is the (I assume) usual result of that decision, then they can all enjoy unemployment, fuck'em.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    moniker wrote: »
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.

    How on earth did you get that from what I was saying? I just meant that security at this supposedly “high security jail” is obviously very lax.

    Not checking up on someone in what still appears to be an impregnable cell doesn't represent much of an increased risk for escape, though it does for assault or suicide. So what does El Chapo being incapable of escaping have to do with literally anything around the circumstances of Epstein killing himself while still in MCC custody?

    moniker on
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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.

    How on earth did you get that from what I was saying? I just meant that security at this supposedly “high security jail” is obviously very lax.

    I think that possibly you guys have not heard of El Chapo? He’s a mob boss who was held at the same jail while awaiting trial. He was famous for escaping prisons in his native Mexico. He was charged and held in the US specifically so he didn’t escape again. At the time, much was made of how he would be completely unable to escape from the super high security jail - which we have now found out, has all the security of a rural lock-up.

    Escape being a security issue and suicide being a medical issue likely plays a big part

    Both guards being asleep seems like a security issue...

    Yeah, but maybe it's "this guy is gonna escape" "oh boy, get the guns and the dogs" vs "this guy's gonna kill himself" "idgaf, peace"

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.

    How on earth did you get that from what I was saying? I just meant that security at this supposedly “high security jail” is obviously very lax.

    I think that possibly you guys have not heard of El Chapo? He’s a mob boss who was held at the same jail while awaiting trial. He was famous for escaping prisons in his native Mexico. He was charged and held in the US specifically so he didn’t escape again. At the time, much was made of how he would be completely unable to escape from the super high security jail - which we have now found out, has all the security of a rural lock-up.

    Escape being a security issue and suicide being a medical issue likely plays a big part

    Both guards being asleep seems like a security issue...

    Yeah, but maybe it's "this guy is gonna escape" "oh boy, get the guns and the dogs" vs "this guy's gonna kill himself" "idgaf, peace"

    Escape also requires more than just getting outside of your room. There are more than 2 guards in all of MCC New York. The ones on your personal block only matter for what happens on that block. Again, like assault and suicide. Them falling asleep increases the risk of that, but doesn't really do anything for escape unless everyone else dozes off at the same time, too. It's a non-sequitur.

    moniker on
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.

    How on earth did you get that from what I was saying? I just meant that security at this supposedly “high security jail” is obviously very lax.

    I think that possibly you guys have not heard of El Chapo? He’s a mob boss who was held at the same jail while awaiting trial. He was famous for escaping prisons in his native Mexico. He was charged and held in the US specifically so he didn’t escape again. At the time, much was made of how he would be completely unable to escape from the super high security jail - which we have now found out, has all the security of a rural lock-up.

    Escape being a security issue and suicide being a medical issue likely plays a big part

    Both guards being asleep seems like a security issue...

    Yeah, but maybe it's "this guy is gonna escape" "oh boy, get the guns and the dogs" vs "this guy's gonna kill himself" "idgaf, peace"

    When it comes to a guy with vital information on a pedophile ring of which he was the head, the former being lax would actually be *better* - a living escapee can always be recaptured.

    ElvenshaeCouscousJeep-EepMan in the Mists
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.

    How on earth did you get that from what I was saying? I just meant that security at this supposedly “high security jail” is obviously very lax.

    I think that possibly you guys have not heard of El Chapo? He’s a mob boss who was held at the same jail while awaiting trial. He was famous for escaping prisons in his native Mexico. He was charged and held in the US specifically so he didn’t escape again. At the time, much was made of how he would be completely unable to escape from the super high security jail - which we have now found out, has all the security of a rural lock-up.

    Escape being a security issue and suicide being a medical issue likely plays a big part

    Both guards being asleep seems like a security issue...

    Yeah, but maybe it's "this guy is gonna escape" "oh boy, get the guns and the dogs" vs "this guy's gonna kill himself" "idgaf, peace"

    When it comes to a guy with vital information on a pedophile ring of which he was the head, the former being lax would actually be *better* - a living escapee can always be recaptured.

    Counterpoint: Roman Polanski.

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  • Boring7Boring7 Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Frankly I'm just dissatisfied with two guys being punished rather than the system that allows for this shit to happen.

    Like, if both the administration and the union are totes fine with overworked employees, and this is the (I assume) usual result of that decision, then they can all enjoy unemployment, fuck'em.

    Don't worry, VERY soon they'll make it worse. Since the Metropolitan Correctional Center has not been privatized, yet, this is the fault of Government and it needs to be privatized. Probably Unions too, so they'll make sure to talk long and hard about busting the union but instead go break some OTHER union because the police unions and prison guard unions tend to get special protection from that kind of initiative.

    Thanatos wrote: »
    Goldman Sachs may as well be named COBRA.
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.

    How on earth did you get that from what I was saying? I just meant that security at this supposedly “high security jail” is obviously very lax.

    I think that possibly you guys have not heard of El Chapo? He’s a mob boss who was held at the same jail while awaiting trial. He was famous for escaping prisons in his native Mexico. He was charged and held in the US specifically so he didn’t escape again. At the time, much was made of how he would be completely unable to escape from the super high security jail - which we have now found out, has all the security of a rural lock-up.

    Escape being a security issue and suicide being a medical issue likely plays a big part

    Both guards being asleep seems like a security issue...

    Yeah, but maybe it's "this guy is gonna escape" "oh boy, get the guns and the dogs" vs "this guy's gonna kill himself" "idgaf, peace"

    Prosecutors often want someone to remain alive so they can be used against others so them dying is a huge problem.

    ElvenshaeMan in the Mists
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    El Chapo must be feeling very stupid that he couldn’t escape this supposedly “high security” jail right now.

    Epstein faked his his death and is actually alive, living on the lamb, is certainly a new conspiratorial hot take.

    How on earth did you get that from what I was saying? I just meant that security at this supposedly “high security jail” is obviously very lax.

    I think that possibly you guys have not heard of El Chapo? He’s a mob boss who was held at the same jail while awaiting trial. He was famous for escaping prisons in his native Mexico. He was charged and held in the US specifically so he didn’t escape again. At the time, much was made of how he would be completely unable to escape from the super high security jail - which we have now found out, has all the security of a rural lock-up.

    Escape being a security issue and suicide being a medical issue likely plays a big part

    Both guards being asleep seems like a security issue...

    Yeah, but maybe it's "this guy is gonna escape" "oh boy, get the guns and the dogs" vs "this guy's gonna kill himself" "idgaf, peace"

    Prosecutors often want someone to remain alive so they can be used against others so them dying is a huge problem.

    I am ignorant about the clout prosecutors actually have regarding prison protocol

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Well if its true they falsified reports they'll probably get fired. But that'll be the end of it. Two guards just fell asleep overnight lied about it and got fired.

    To bring it back to paranoia time, I'd be interested to see if these guards can prove they simply fell asleep.

    Yeah call me crazy but them falsifying the logs doesn't exactly disprove any conspiracy theories. Being overworked and falling asleep or just skipping a prisoner check might not be a fireable offense, but falsifying logs definitely is.

    I would be interested in knowing if this was a pattern, like they slacked off every night but this just happened to be the first night that Epstein didn't have a roommate.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I think people who want a conspiracy will see that regardless, but for me "overworked guards just didn't care" is a believable scenario, falsifying records to cover your ass? Completely believable.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Well if its true they falsified reports they'll probably get fired. But that'll be the end of it. Two guards just fell asleep overnight lied about it and got fired.

    To bring it back to paranoia time, I'd be interested to see if these guards can prove they simply fell asleep.

    Yeah call me crazy but them falsifying the logs doesn't exactly disprove any conspiracy theories. Being overworked and falling asleep or just skipping a prisoner check might not be a fireable offense, but falsifying logs definitely is.

    I would be interested in knowing if this was a pattern, like they slacked off every night but this just happened to be the first night that Epstein didn't have a roommate.

    They must have been in the habit of it, otherwise why would they do it the one time they had a suicidal prisoner the national news cares about?

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  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think people who want a conspiracy will see that regardless, but for me "overworked guards just didn't care" is a believable scenario, falsifying records to cover your ass? Completely believable.

    On the other hand, that kind of guard would be easily corrupted if you wanted to play games.

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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Well if its true they falsified reports they'll probably get fired. But that'll be the end of it. Two guards just fell asleep overnight lied about it and got fired.

    To bring it back to paranoia time, I'd be interested to see if these guards can prove they simply fell asleep.

    Yeah call me crazy but them falsifying the logs doesn't exactly disprove any conspiracy theories. Being overworked and falling asleep or just skipping a prisoner check might not be a fireable offense, but falsifying logs definitely is.

    I would be interested in knowing if this was a pattern, like they slacked off every night but this just happened to be the first night that Epstein didn't have a roommate.

    They must have been in the habit of it, otherwise why would they do it the one time they had a suicidal prisoner the national news cares about?

    Odds that they fell asleep because they were exhausted due to understaffing and chronic overtime?

    Humans aren't made to be constantly vigilant. I'm uncomfortable calling this a simple case of "slack[ing] off" when the root cause is almost certainly systemic.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think people who want a conspiracy will see that regardless, but for me "overworked guards just didn't care" is a believable scenario, falsifying records to cover your ass? Completely believable.

    On the other hand, that kind of guard would be easily corrupted if you wanted to play games.

    Yeah, overworked, burned-out poorly supervised guards. No way they could ever have been paid off, right?

    Even if they weren't in THIS case, it's clear it would be possible. If some mafia witness had been in that cell block for protection before trial, what would be stopping the mob from paying guards to take a nap while the witness gets roughed up?

    Jeep-EepElvenshaeKristmas KthulhuMan in the Mists
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Poorly supervised guards that will likely quit pretty soon given turnover among prison guards.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think people who want a conspiracy will see that regardless, but for me "overworked guards just didn't care" is a believable scenario, falsifying records to cover your ass? Completely believable.

    On the other hand, that kind of guard would be easily corrupted if you wanted to play games.

    Never ascribe to conspiracy when simple stupidity will do. Two guards fell asleep on a shitty overnight job and someone died. The end. No pay off needed, no grand conspiracy, just simple everyday human indifference.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think people who want a conspiracy will see that regardless, but for me "overworked guards just didn't care" is a believable scenario, falsifying records to cover your ass? Completely believable.

    On the other hand, that kind of guard would be easily corrupted if you wanted to play games.

    Never ascribe to conspiracy when simple stupidity will do. Two guards fell asleep on a shitty overnight job and someone died. The end. No pay off needed, no grand conspiracy, just simple everyday human indifference.

    Epstein has a history of paying off prison guards, judging by his luxury stay last time.

    Is it really pure paranoia to suppose he (or friends) might have done so again? Surely New York guards are incorruptible, unlike those from Florida!

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think people who want a conspiracy will see that regardless, but for me "overworked guards just didn't care" is a believable scenario, falsifying records to cover your ass? Completely believable.

    On the other hand, that kind of guard would be easily corrupted if you wanted to play games.

    Never ascribe to conspiracy when simple stupidity will do. Two guards fell asleep on a shitty overnight job and someone died. The end. No pay off needed, no grand conspiracy, just simple everyday human indifference.

    Epstein has a history of paying off prison guards, judging by his luxury stay last time.

    Is it really pure paranoia to suppose he (or friends) might have done so again? Surely New York guards are incorruptible, unlike those from Florida!

    Yes it is. Conspiracies are normally wrong because they are a fantasy we play out because we want to think something like this had to be planned, it couldn't just simply be two people who weren't great at their job failing. No they had to be paid off.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    Preacher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think people who want a conspiracy will see that regardless, but for me "overworked guards just didn't care" is a believable scenario, falsifying records to cover your ass? Completely believable.

    On the other hand, that kind of guard would be easily corrupted if you wanted to play games.

    Never ascribe to conspiracy when simple stupidity will do. Two guards fell asleep on a shitty overnight job and someone died. The end. No pay off needed, no grand conspiracy, just simple everyday human indifference.

    Epstein has a history of paying off prison guards, judging by his luxury stay last time.

    Is it really pure paranoia to suppose he (or friends) might have done so again? Surely New York guards are incorruptible, unlike those from Florida!

    Yes it is. Conspiracies are normally wrong because they are a fantasy we play out because we want to think something like this had to be planned, it couldn't just simply be two people who weren't great at their job failing. No they had to be paid off.

    So, when he was treated like a prince in the Florida prison, was it not a conspiracy? Or did they just treat all prisoners that way, driving them to social engagements and leaving them unguarded etc?

    Certainly it would be paranoid to suggest they might have been bribed!

    CelestialBadger on
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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    At this point it's like a conspiracy to sneak Dr. Pepper into a water cup at Chipotle. The number one reason this happened is that our system sucks. If there was someone behind it, sure, find that out, but you don't get to be surprised when someone in a deathtrap dies.

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think people who want a conspiracy will see that regardless, but for me "overworked guards just didn't care" is a believable scenario, falsifying records to cover your ass? Completely believable.

    On the other hand, that kind of guard would be easily corrupted if you wanted to play games.

    Never ascribe to conspiracy when simple stupidity will do. Two guards fell asleep on a shitty overnight job and someone died. The end. No pay off needed, no grand conspiracy, just simple everyday human indifference.

    Epstein has a history of paying off prison guards, judging by his luxury stay last time.

    Is it really pure paranoia to suppose he (or friends) might have done so again? Surely New York guards are incorruptible, unlike those from Florida!

    Yes it is. Conspiracies are normally wrong because they are a fantasy we play out because we want to think something like this had to be planned, it couldn't just simply be two people who weren't great at their job failing. No they had to be paid off.

    And sometimes they are true. Until a reliable investigation establishes that these guards did not have any sudden changes in their finances and so on it is premature to claim that there was no wrong doing.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
    CelestialBadgerIncenjucarElvenshaeJeep-EepKristmas KthulhuNobeardelectricitylikesmeSorceSmurphMan in the Mists
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think people who want a conspiracy will see that regardless, but for me "overworked guards just didn't care" is a believable scenario, falsifying records to cover your ass? Completely believable.

    On the other hand, that kind of guard would be easily corrupted if you wanted to play games.

    Never ascribe to conspiracy when simple stupidity will do. Two guards fell asleep on a shitty overnight job and someone died. The end. No pay off needed, no grand conspiracy, just simple everyday human indifference.

    Epstein has a history of paying off prison guards, judging by his luxury stay last time.

    Is it really pure paranoia to suppose he (or friends) might have done so again? Surely New York guards are incorruptible, unlike those from Florida!

    Yes it is. Conspiracies are normally wrong because they are a fantasy we play out because we want to think something like this had to be planned, it couldn't just simply be two people who weren't great at their job failing. No they had to be paid off.

    So, when he was treated like a prince in the Florida prison, was it not a conspiracy? Or did they just treat all prisoners that way, driving them to social engagements and leaving them unguarded etc?

    Certainly it would be paranoid to suggest they might have been bribed!

    That wasn't a conspiracy? That was bribery, like flat out he bought better treatment. Theorizing he was actually killed by a mysterious third party is a conspiracy.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
    chrono_travellerElldrenGnome-Interruptus
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    Preacher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think people who want a conspiracy will see that regardless, but for me "overworked guards just didn't care" is a believable scenario, falsifying records to cover your ass? Completely believable.

    On the other hand, that kind of guard would be easily corrupted if you wanted to play games.

    Never ascribe to conspiracy when simple stupidity will do. Two guards fell asleep on a shitty overnight job and someone died. The end. No pay off needed, no grand conspiracy, just simple everyday human indifference.

    Epstein has a history of paying off prison guards, judging by his luxury stay last time.

    Is it really pure paranoia to suppose he (or friends) might have done so again? Surely New York guards are incorruptible, unlike those from Florida!

    Yes it is. Conspiracies are normally wrong because they are a fantasy we play out because we want to think something like this had to be planned, it couldn't just simply be two people who weren't great at their job failing. No they had to be paid off.

    So, when he was treated like a prince in the Florida prison, was it not a conspiracy? Or did they just treat all prisoners that way, driving them to social engagements and leaving them unguarded etc?

    Certainly it would be paranoid to suggest they might have been bribed!

    That wasn't a conspiracy? That was bribery, like flat out he bought better treatment. Theorizing he was actually killed by a mysterious third party is a conspiracy.

    I'm not suspicious about him being murdered. I don't think that's credible. But I do think it's reasonably credible that there might have been a "conspiracy" to have the prison look the other way while he killed himself.

    No need for the Illuminati or Hillary's secret cabal of assassins, or even for the guards to understand what they were doing. They might have thought that they were just getting bribed to give him the special favor of a night's peace and a cell to himself, without the annoyance of cellmates.

    CelestialBadger on
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Apparently Maxwell was pulling a Whitey Bulger:



    Adam Parkhomenko is a Democratic consultant.

    How is it that the Daily Mail can find her, but not the FBI?

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