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Jeffrey Epstein Co-Conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell Finally Convicted

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    Kane Red RobeKane Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Again: She escorted the prince of england to a hookers and pimps convention. There is no fucking way that she didn't know.

    That was probably the theme of a fancy dress party rather than actual hookers and pimps. The British upper classes have a thing for that kind of combo of silly and debauched.

    Doesn’t excuse her of course. Justice has been done, at least for her. Shame they didn’t bother trying to get her to rat on the other rich guys she pimped for.

    Yes it's very funny how we've got her dead to rights on sex trafficking but no one seems particularly interested in who she was doing the trafficking for

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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Again: She escorted the prince of england to a hookers and pimps convention. There is no fucking way that she didn't know.

    That was probably the theme of a fancy dress party rather than actual hookers and pimps. The British upper classes have a thing for that kind of combo of silly and debauched.

    Doesn’t excuse her of course. Justice has been done, at least for her. Shame they didn’t bother trying to get her to rat on the other rich guys she pimped for.

    It's a (tasteless) themed fancy dress party. They had the exact same thing in Bridget Jones' Diary (except there it was hookers and vicars).

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    I mean stable family for the Maxwell's is pushing it. They pretty much were rich family psychopaths 101.
    Ended up in a bad place due to a quirk of fate, yeah I buy that. Younger Ghislaine did some fucked up stuff without thinking about it and got in over her head.

    But then started digging and fighting any way out it for the rest of her life. And then hid knowing she'd face consequences.
    And used "She isn't feeling great" in prison as a potential reason for a reduced sentence?!

    Younger is technically true, but she was born in '61 and met Epstein sometime around '90 (things are a tad vague there). 29 years old is still a point where you can do some stupid shit, but if someone hasn't sorted out that procuring an unending supply of underaged girls (women? underage seems redundant with girls, yet calling them women also seems incorrect) to super rapey guy is wrong by that age, I don't really think that they really ever will in this lifetime.

    We tend to infantalize younger adults as "boys" and "girls" well into their adult years, and even later (how many older folks have a "boyfriend" or have a "girls' night out?").

    It's odd to think about, but, yes, in the language context, "underage girls" is required because of our fucked up cultural linguistics that allows "Girls Gone Wild" to be a thing without immediately calling for a vice investigation...it's not illegal (mostly), it's just tasteless and sketchy.

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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Again: She escorted the prince of england to a hookers and pimps convention. There is no fucking way that she didn't know.

    That was probably the theme of a fancy dress party rather than actual hookers and pimps. The British upper classes have a thing for that kind of combo of silly and debauched.

    Doesn’t excuse her of course. Justice has been done, at least for her. Shame they didn’t bother trying to get her to rat on the other rich guys she pimped for.

    Yes it's very funny how we've got her dead to rights on sex trafficking but no one seems particularly interested in who she was doing the trafficking for

    Also funny how everyone who got got in the Me Too wars was some sort of minority. Woman, Jewish, black. Not a male WASP among them. Funny that the white Christian men totally escaped.

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    HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Our prisons don't rehabilitate and we don't have an option available for that as of right now. Beyond that, without knowing lawyers fees, her networth is estimated to be > $20 million. $750k fine is... not a lot.

    We'll see how that $20 mil holds up to all the civil suits that are about to be knocking down her prison cell door.

    Sure, but that doesn't mean that $750k is any kind of real impediment to... anything for her. To be clear, $750k sounds like a lot, and as someone noted, was the legal max apparently, but it goes to show how much money distorts things. Even rounding it to 1/20th of her net worth sounds like a lot for a "normal" person, but because of the absolute value of these things, it ... just doesn't.

    How much of that 20 million do you think is actually liquid assets as opposed to things like companies, houses and luxury goods?

    They were offering $22.5 mil + $5mil from other sources as bail to allow home detention so.....

    Cool, a nice target for a civil suit

    To be clear, I'm not defending her, I'm saying a $750k fine is potatoes relative to her supposed wealth. Possible civil suits hopefully will suck up the rest.

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    HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Again: She escorted the prince of england to a hookers and pimps convention. There is no fucking way that she didn't know.

    That was probably the theme of a fancy dress party rather than actual hookers and pimps. The British upper classes have a thing for that kind of combo of silly and debauched.

    Doesn’t excuse her of course. Justice has been done, at least for her. Shame they didn’t bother trying to get her to rat on the other rich guys she pimped for.

    Yes it's very funny how we've got her dead to rights on sex trafficking but no one seems particularly interested in who she was doing the trafficking for

    Also funny how everyone who got got in the Me Too wars was some sort of minority. Woman, Jewish, black. Not a male WASP among them. Funny that the white Christian men totally escaped.

    Kevin Spacey? He's definitely a white man, not sure if he's a WASP. Louis CK is at least adjacent to this? Probably others as well.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Again: She escorted the prince of england to a hookers and pimps convention. There is no fucking way that she didn't know.

    That was probably the theme of a fancy dress party rather than actual hookers and pimps. The British upper classes have a thing for that kind of combo of silly and debauched.

    Doesn’t excuse her of course. Justice has been done, at least for her. Shame they didn’t bother trying to get her to rat on the other rich guys she pimped for.

    Yes it's very funny how we've got her dead to rights on sex trafficking but no one seems particularly interested in who she was doing the trafficking for

    Also funny how everyone who got got in the Me Too wars was some sort of minority. Woman, Jewish, black. Not a male WASP among them. Funny that the white Christian men totally escaped.

    Kevin Spacey? He's definitely a white man, not sure if he's a WASP. Louis CK is at least adjacent to this? Probably others as well.

    The Spacey claims were due to assaults of a homosexual nature. So that puts him as a minority.

    Louis CK probably counts.

    Matt Lauer, maybe? He can trace Jewish ancestry on his father's side, but that's at best Boston Irish relation. He's not Jewish by blood, and he's not a practicing Jew.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Fancy Dress Party is British for Costume Party, btw

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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Fancy Dress Party is British for Costume Party, btw

    Hookers & Pimps is also a very common party theme in US colleges, or was in the early 2000s

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Issac Chotiner interviews Alan Dershowitz:



    And by "interview", I mean "hands him the paracord and proceeds to let nature take its course." This is Chotiner's stock in trade, and yet people still sit down with him.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    I don't know who Chotiner is, but any time Dershowitz opens his mouth I expect him to just off the cuff mention where some body is buried.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Chotiner is a guy who people make the joke "I'd talk to the cops before I talked to Chotiner" and it makes sense.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Again: She escorted the prince of england to a hookers and pimps convention. There is no fucking way that she didn't know.

    That was probably the theme of a fancy dress party rather than actual hookers and pimps. The British upper classes have a thing for that kind of combo of silly and debauched.

    Doesn’t excuse her of course. Justice has been done, at least for her. Shame they didn’t bother trying to get her to rat on the other rich guys she pimped for.

    Yes it's very funny how we've got her dead to rights on sex trafficking but no one seems particularly interested in who she was doing the trafficking for

    Also funny how everyone who got got in the Me Too wars was some sort of minority. Woman, Jewish, black. Not a male WASP among them. Funny that the white Christian men totally escaped.

    Kevin Spacey? He's definitely a white man, not sure if he's a WASP. Louis CK is at least adjacent to this? Probably others as well.

    The Spacey claims were due to assaults of a homosexual nature. So that puts him as a minority.

    Louis CK probably counts.

    Matt Lauer, maybe? He can trace Jewish ancestry on his father's side, but that's at best Boston Irish relation. He's not Jewish by blood, and he's not a practicing Jew.

    Bill O'Reilly and Roger Ailes should both be on there as well.

    I think there were some white musicians that went down, but I honestly couldn't tell you who.

    uH3IcEi.png
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Again: She escorted the prince of england to a hookers and pimps convention. There is no fucking way that she didn't know.

    That was probably the theme of a fancy dress party rather than actual hookers and pimps. The British upper classes have a thing for that kind of combo of silly and debauched.

    Doesn’t excuse her of course. Justice has been done, at least for her. Shame they didn’t bother trying to get her to rat on the other rich guys she pimped for.

    Yes it's very funny how we've got her dead to rights on sex trafficking but no one seems particularly interested in who she was doing the trafficking for

    Also funny how everyone who got got in the Me Too wars was some sort of minority. Woman, Jewish, black. Not a male WASP among them. Funny that the white Christian men totally escaped.

    Kevin Spacey? He's definitely a white man, not sure if he's a WASP. Louis CK is at least adjacent to this? Probably others as well.

    The Spacey claims were due to assaults of a homosexual nature. So that puts him as a minority.

    Louis CK probably counts.

    Matt Lauer, maybe? He can trace Jewish ancestry on his father's side, but that's at best Boston Irish relation. He's not Jewish by blood, and he's not a practicing Jew.

    Bill O'Reilly and Roger Ailes should both be on there as well.

    I think there were some white musicians that went down, but I honestly couldn't tell you who.

    like we're talking about perpetrators?

    Marilyn Manson springs to mind, and there's more I'm sure. Whole host of creepy assholes in title ix / Olympic sports. Everyone from the games industry. Everyone mentioned in my Facebook feed.

    Whole lot of cis white males were called out.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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    GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Chotiner is a guy who people make the joke "I'd talk to the cops before I talked to Chotiner" and it makes sense.

    I'd not heard of Chotiner but am reading the interview and it reads very much like someone not realizing they're being made fun of the whole time. It's a pretty funny roast. It is more surprising than it should be to hear how insular and petty the lives of people like Dershowitz are.

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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Again: She escorted the prince of england to a hookers and pimps convention. There is no fucking way that she didn't know.

    That was probably the theme of a fancy dress party rather than actual hookers and pimps. The British upper classes have a thing for that kind of combo of silly and debauched.

    Doesn’t excuse her of course. Justice has been done, at least for her. Shame they didn’t bother trying to get her to rat on the other rich guys she pimped for.

    Yes it's very funny how we've got her dead to rights on sex trafficking but no one seems particularly interested in who she was doing the trafficking for

    Also funny how everyone who got got in the Me Too wars was some sort of minority. Woman, Jewish, black. Not a male WASP among them. Funny that the white Christian men totally escaped.

    Kevin Spacey? He's definitely a white man, not sure if he's a WASP. Louis CK is at least adjacent to this? Probably others as well.

    The Spacey claims were due to assaults of a homosexual nature. So that puts him as a minority.

    Louis CK probably counts.

    Matt Lauer, maybe? He can trace Jewish ancestry on his father's side, but that's at best Boston Irish relation. He's not Jewish by blood, and he's not a practicing Jew.

    Bill O'Reilly and Roger Ailes should both be on there as well.

    I think there were some white musicians that went down, but I honestly couldn't tell you who.

    like we're talking about perpetrators?

    Marilyn Manson springs to mind, and there's more I'm sure. Whole host of creepy assholes in title ix / Olympic sports. Everyone from the games industry. Everyone mentioned in my Facebook feed.

    Whole lot of cis white males were called out.

    Ryan Adams was like a mini-Weinstein in the indi rock industry; offering young artists "help with their careers" so he could pursue them romantically. Phoebe Bridgers and his ex-wife Mandy Moore went public about him. Moore was a household name before she married Adams and he started sabotaging her career to control her.

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    Chotiner is a guy who people make the joke "I'd talk to the cops before I talked to Chotiner" and it makes sense.

    I'd not heard of Chotiner but am reading the interview and it reads very much like someone not realizing they're being made fun of the whole time. It's a pretty funny roast. It is more surprising than it should be to hear how insular and petty the lives of people like Dershowitz are.

    So, a written version of a Jordan Klepper segment? It is amazing how much he's able to get out of people that he's clearly mocking. It's very much like that former cop who talks about how you shouldn't talk to cops. That people think they're way smarter than the person asking questions, when they're clearly not.

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    The trick is that the person asking questions isn’t asking questions. They’re just like, nodding along like a sychophant, “oh yea tell me more about that”. And people will spill all sorts of beans when faced with someone who seems like they really want to hear it.

    wbBv3fj.png
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The trick is that the person asking questions isn’t asking questions. They’re just like, nodding along like a sychophant, “oh yea tell me more about that”. And people will spill all sorts of beans when faced with someone who seems like they really want to hear it.

    "Wow, that's amazing. Unbelievable."

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The trick is that the person asking questions isn’t asking questions. They’re just like, nodding along like a sychophant, “oh yea tell me more about that”. And people will spill all sorts of beans when faced with someone who seems like they really want to hear it.

    "Wow, that's amazing. Unbelievable."

    I know right? The chuff of those people to disrespect my utter genius!

    wbBv3fj.png
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The trick is that the person asking questions isn’t asking questions. They’re just like, nodding along like a sychophant, “oh yea tell me more about that”. And people will spill all sorts of beans when faced with someone who seems like they really want to hear it.

    Yeah, the questions are very much engineered to make it seem like he's agreeing with Dershowitz to get him to be more comfortable and let his guard down. And then he starts correcting him within it, and gets to "One on hand the captial riots, on the other hand interrupting dinner."

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The trick is that the person asking questions isn’t asking questions. They’re just like, nodding along like a sychophant, “oh yea tell me more about that”. And people will spill all sorts of beans when faced with someone who seems like they really want to hear it.

    The other trick is the notes in square brackets, where he tells you that the interviewee is lying. That fact-checking isn't part of the actual interview.

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    R-demR-dem Registered User regular
    Was it during Me Too that James Franco was outed as a sex pest? I honestly can't keep track anymore. Turns out a lot of people are shitbirds.

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    tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I read CB as making the argument that the people who suffered consequences in the me too movement were largely non-wasp/ non-straight, not that that described the people who were outed (let's be honest, most of them were barely inned in the first place).

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    Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    Nothing big happening, appeals are ongoing, blah-blah-blah.

    However, thing continue to not go well for Maxwell as she's now being sued by her lawyers for non-payment.

    From Reuters via Yahoo:
    Ghislaine Maxwell has failed to pay some $878,000 in fees to two lawyers who defended the now-convicted British socialite against criminal charges she helped Jeffrey Epstein abuse teenage girls, the lawyers' firm said in a new lawsuit.

    There's not a whole lot else in that article. No one involved responded for comments, she remains divorced from her mystery husband, family is mum about it all. But it does say a lot about her that when you don't get her what she wants, she burns you.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    But it does say a lot about her that when you don't get her what she wants, she burns you.

    Still somehow better than her friend and fellow sexual predator Donald, who burns you even if you get him what he wants.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Nothing big happening, appeals are ongoing, blah-blah-blah.

    However, thing continue to not go well for Maxwell as she's now being sued by her lawyers for non-payment.

    From Reuters via Yahoo:
    Ghislaine Maxwell has failed to pay some $878,000 in fees to two lawyers who defended the now-convicted British socialite against criminal charges she helped Jeffrey Epstein abuse teenage girls, the lawyers' firm said in a new lawsuit.

    There's not a whole lot else in that article. No one involved responded for comments, she remains divorced from her mystery husband, family is mum about it all. But it does say a lot about her that when you don't get her what she wants, she burns you.

    Well, she learnt that from being at the right hand of Epstein. When you pay someone to get you off, and they don't deliver, you retaliate.

    Surprised she didn't give them a taste of the back of her hand.
    Cause she's a pimp.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    So we have sworn testimony from an Epstein/Maxwell victim that she was forced to have sex with Alan Dershowitz:
    Newly unsealed court documents made public on Monday night reveal that a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein’s sex trafficking testified that she was forced to have a threesome with Alan Dershowitz, the former lawyer of both Epstein and former President Donald Trump, and an unnamed woman, the Daily Beast reported. The woman, Sarah Ransome, was then compelled by lawyers for Epstein’s accomplice, convicted sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell, to answer a series of invasive questions about Dershowitz’s body and genitals.

    The parties on the Vineyard are the least of his concerns now.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    LabelLabel Registered User regular
    edited December 2022
    vomits.

    ... least surprising thing i've heard in a while.

    Label on
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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    It's probably been covered already in this thread extensively, but why would Epstein kill himself so fast? There's plenty of free opportunities to get killed/kill yourself once in penitentiary?

    Especially someone as his rich as him could have an quintuple OD dose of opiates ready the next day. And we all know he did drugs, so why go the fucking painful route?

    It still don't add up.

    bwanie on
    Yh6tI4T.jpg
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    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    It's not uncommon for psychopaths / control freaks to kill themselves in prison before trail as a final "fuck you" to their victims and anyone who dared to try to hold them accountable. It robs everyone else of closure.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    august wrote: »
    It's not uncommon for psychopaths / control freaks to kill themselves in prison before trail as a final "fuck you" to their victims and anyone who dared to try to hold them accountable. It robs everyone else of closure.

    See also: former Twistars owner, Larry Nasser associate, and abusive gymnastics coach John Geddert committing suicide after MI AG Dana Nessel announced his indictment over his abuses at Twistars.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    august wrote: »
    It's not uncommon for psychopaths / control freaks to kill themselves in prison before trail as a final "fuck you" to their victims and anyone who dared to try to hold them accountable. It robs everyone else of closure.

    The truth is that there are so many systematic failures that happened in Epstein's pretrial incarceration that a conspiracy isn't close to a practical explanation.

    Those who cling to them are incapable to understanding how the world functions and thus don't understand how it fails daily at some of what it attempts.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    august wrote: »
    It's not uncommon for psychopaths / control freaks to kill themselves in prison before trail as a final "fuck you" to their victims and anyone who dared to try to hold them accountable. It robs everyone else of closure.

    "I decide my own fate, not you", "none of you are fit to pass judgement over me", "a man chooses", etc etc.

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    Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    bwanie wrote: »
    It's probably been covered already in this thread extensively, but why would Epstein kill himself so fast? There's plenty of free opportunities to get killed/kill yourself once in penitentiary?

    Especially someone as his rich as him could have an quintuple OD dose of opiates ready the next day. And we all know he did drugs, so why go the fucking painful route?

    It still don't add up.

    I mean, the easy answer is that you're really bad at math. XD

    Of course it adds up. Epstein went from being the dude that had famous politicians and celebrities flock to his parties, and Bill Gates personally asking him, 'how do I get hot chicks?' to a joke and a pariah. If you've ever known an asshole like him, being rich as fuck wasn't good enough, he wanted to be 'that guy' that celebs wanted to be seen with, that got to invite world leaders for an island dinner, that people like Bill Gates would ask for pickup advice. That was what mattered to him most of all. Being Someone.

    Permanently losing the ability to be 'that guy' and even worse, he was the rich guy who could do anything, and now he was stuck in a cell, and there was a good chance this would be his forever? Fuck it, fuck y'all, I want out.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    If people were going to kill Epstein to silence him, they would have done it in 2008 when he cut a plea deal that a lot of people expected would be followed by a bloodbath as all the people who used him were wrapped up one after another. He was out on probation by the time the world realized just how shitty the deal was and that the prosecution had nothing to show for it, by which time he could have been dead, buried, his black book thrown in the ocean, and his island burned to the ground.

    By the time he died he'd proved multiple times he could keep quiet and even bald faced lie in front of prosecutors, civil lawyers, and judges and that he would even take a sentence and pay a settlement to protect his richer and more powerful clients.

    The mafia kills snitches, it doesn't kill made men.


    Now on the flip side: he was in solitary, and while the camera that was closest to him was dead there was a single point of passage with a working camera, and we know nobody had been in there for longer than he'd been dead. Including the people were SUPPOSED to be doing so every fifteen minutes. Unless his attackers dropped in from outer fucking space he was alone with his thoughts down there.

    The facility was slightly below the national average for suicides, but by its own frequency was "overdue" for one and Epstein's put them right back in the middle standard devotion.

    And the last several suicides, as well as many assaults and a number of medical emergencies had the exact same pattern - long term unaddressed camera outages and guards working double shifts without a day off for weeks or months at a time who can't be fucked to do the bare minimum let alone respond to emergencies or take on the extra workload of suicidal inmates.

    Hevach on
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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    Thanks, that makes sense.

    Yh6tI4T.jpg
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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    Though i do want to add that I never said i didn't understand why he wanted out, i was talking about the way he went about it.

    bwanie on
    Yh6tI4T.jpg
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    SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    I think of all the weird things around his suicide, the idea of him actually chosing to take his life in that manner is one of the things I have no problem beleiving. Him ending up with no roommate when he wasn't supposed to and the cameras being broken were way weirder, but still explainable by the prison just being shit.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    I think of all the weird things around his suicide, the idea of him actually chosing to take his life in that manner is one of the things I have no problem beleiving. Him ending up with no roommate when he wasn't supposed to and the cameras being broken were way weirder, but still explainable by the prison just being shit.

    The thing about pedophiles in prison is that they end up dead a lot. That he didn't have a roommate didn't surprise me much, because we might have reached the same result, faster, otherwise.

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