Yea I mean the biggest thing that has been getting repeated that seems to get lost in a lot of the responses in defense of the decision is the harshness of the punishment.
Unless that is the same harshness for every other violation for saying something deemed inappropriate then it is absolutely a statement being made. Anyone ignoring that is going in there with some serious blinders.
It's never happened but I can't imagine a streamer shouting, "Stop the Keystone Pipeline!" or "Get out of Crimea, Russia!" during a broadcasted tournament would be banned from all play for a year. Maybe a tournament forfeiture but not a whole year.
Yea I mean the biggest thing that has been getting repeated that seems to get lost in a lot of the responses in defense of the decision is the harshness of the punishment.
Unless that is the same harshness for every other violation for saying something deemed inappropriate then it is absolutely a statement being made. Anyone ignoring that is going in there with some serious blinders.
That, and the whole Communist-Party-suck-up language in their Chinese "tweet" on the issue.
Either way, it saddens me people are forced into expressing their political views on gamestreams.
The idea that politics are this little box you can set aside when convenient is something of a poisonous idea that, in part, led to this current mess we’re in.
Not that people need to announce their politics on a gaming stream all the time, but we need to be comfortable with sharing our politics and excising the cancerous people before they metastasize.
i still occasionally watch Trump and Kibler youtube videos
proud of my boi Kibler for doing the right thing - and kinda agree with his take.
If Blizzard had done a slap on the wrists, I could have forgiven them
But the huge overpunishment is just incredibly unfair - hearthstone pro is not an easy job and just completely crushing everyone involved is total bullshit
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Yeah I'm not typically a fan of mixing politics and gaming at all, but this is one of those times I feel like it's ok given how horrible the situation is over there.
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Hmm. I actually would totally expect Epic to do some similar shit, I suspect they're just going for the easy PR dunk here to distract from their previous year of awful press.
Yeah I'm not typically a fan of mixing politics and gaming at all, but this is one of those times I feel like it's ok given how horrible the situation is over there.
the media we consume as a culture -- movies, tv shows, books, video games, what have you -- these are all inherently political things
anyone who creates anything puts their beliefs into it, including politics
have you watched a tv show, seen a movie, played a video game in the past.... ever? it contained a political message, i guarantee you
FF6, which is one of my favorite games ever, is EXTREMELY political (empire bad! overthrow the corrupt!)
some games are much more overt about this. in wolfenstein you go out and kill fucking nazis, ffs.
world of warcraft, which hearthstone is based off of, contains its own set of politics even
saying "i don't like mixing gaming and politics" is a super weird thing to say considering it's been there this whole time
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
+7
Options
KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Yeah I'm not typically a fan of mixing politics and gaming at all, but this is one of those times I feel like it's ok given how horrible the situation is over there.
the media we consume as a culture -- movies, tv shows, books, video games, what have you -- these are all inherently political things
anyone who creates anything puts their beliefs into it, including politics
have you watched a tv show, seen a movie, played a video game in the past.... ever? it contained a political message, i guarantee you
FF6, which is one of my favorite games ever, is EXTREMELY political (empire bad! overthrow the corrupt!)
some games are much more overt about this. in wolfenstein you go out and kill fucking nazis, ffs.
world of warcraft, which hearthstone is based off of, contains its own set of politics even
saying "i don't like mixing gaming and politics" is a super weird thing to say considering it's been there this whole time
I mean overt, real world politics. I know they already contain politics, but overall gaming should (IMO) be an escape. But sometimes it's fine too, it's just a balancing act. But just as an example, when Braid suddenly went from weird fantasy setting to an anti-nukes alagory, that's when that game lost me. I don't like that kind of preachy stuff.
TBH, this isn't even necessarily the same situation since I don't really count gaming streams (or stuff outside the games themselves) in this. Stuff is gonna be said on streams, that's totally fine with me.
I don't instantly get indignant whenever the average dumbass person says "I don't want politics in X". Because I know what the average dumbass person is trying to say. They're generally not trying to say "I don't want to hear things I don't like". What they're usually trying to say is "I have to deal with the horrors of the world for 23 fucking hours a day. It would be great if I could just have one goddamn hour of rest doing X wherein I don't have to think about that shit, before being forced to go back and think about that shit".
The problem with that though is that people and the world in general don't exist in a vacuum like that. One person's "one hour of rest" won't necessarily line up with another person's "23 hours of dealing with it".
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
+5
Options
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Yea I mean the biggest thing that has been getting repeated that seems to get lost in a lot of the responses in defense of the decision is the harshness of the punishment.
Unless that is the same harshness for every other violation for saying something deemed inappropriate then it is absolutely a statement being made. Anyone ignoring that is going in there with some serious blinders.
It's never happened but I can't imagine a streamer shouting, "Stop the Keystone Pipeline!" or "Get out of Crimea, Russia!" during a broadcasted tournament would be banned from all play for a year. Maybe a tournament forfeiture but not a whole year.
AND the broadcast team getting fired too. It very clearly would not happen like that.
+5
Options
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
IMHO there is a difference between “I don’t like [insert political partyl/politician here] style of “politics” and “I support basic human rights, democracy and freedom” kind of “politics”.
The latter of which should never be deemed “inappropriate” any where at any time for any reason.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
+7
Options
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
IMHO there is a difference between “I don’t like [insert political partyl/politician here] style of “politics” and “I support basic human rights, democracy and freedom” kind of “politics”.
The latter of which should never be deemed “inappropriate” any where at any time for any reason.
Either way, it saddens me people are forced into expressing their political views on gamestreams.
The idea that politics are this little box you can set aside when convenient is something of a poisonous idea that, in part, led to this current mess we’re in.
Not that people need to announce their politics on a gaming stream all the time, but we need to be comfortable with sharing our politics and excising the cancerous people before they metastasize.
I think Kibler says it best:
Even so, I do think that Blizzard was correct in issuing him a penalty for his actions. They do not want to set the precedent for their official broadcasts being used as political tools. The players agreed to particular rules for behavior, and he violated those rules.
I have seen many descriptions of the situation claim that Blizzard took action against Blitzchung “for his support of the Hong Kong protests”, but that’s not an entirely accurate description. They did not penalize him for his political stance – they penalized him for breaking the rules by using their official broadcast to promote that stance.
You are basically in a HS commercial. I see no problem with people using their own streams for politics, but when you use a official Blizzard broadcast I feel they are allowed to ban you for it, whatever the message is.
Now, the severity of the ban, and Kibler saying it's probably done to send a message, is another matter, and I agree this is where the real problem lies. Yes, it was harsh, and I get why they don't want to endorse such behavior, even if it's done for good. Next time, the line might be blurrier, and where does it end?
That being said, Kibler deciding not to be present is a very wise decision, given the circumstances, and I agree with him Blizzard overreacted.
People attacking other streamers and basically forcing them to take a stance and give up their job is something else entirely, and feels like it counters the actual message, and I feel is also overreacting.
Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09 P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359 Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
Per the Press Sneak King of video games, Schreier, J. Allen Brack is expected to address this within Blizzard today. I'm sure it'll leak afterwards or be publically released.
/popcorn
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
+9
Options
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
There’s been more than a few US politicians (from both parties no less) now that have called Blizzard out by name over this.
I’m pretty sure that puts Blizzard squarely in the “You have seriously and unequivocally fucked up” territory.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
+14
Options
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
To beat this week’s brawl:
1) Pick Lazul
2) get the treasure that reduces hero powers by one and gives you a second use per turn(making hers zero)
3) draft as many sylvanas’s as you can. Use the spell that copies a minion and adds it to your deck on an enemy sylvanas
4) summon endless 1/1 sylvanases for free.
5) kill the horseman with his own head.
BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
I was watching Thijs earlier and it was really disappointing how he was blatantly ignoring the political fallout of yesterday and his mods were instabanning + deleting messages and in subscriber only slow mode
Guess he knows what side his bread is buttered, I won't be tuning into any more of his streams
This is way too big for them not to address publicly, they need to stop the bleeding. I'm surprised it's taken them this long.
+5
Options
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Of course yesterday I make a post after everyone has kinda moved on from politics, and now we’re back on it and I throw out my dumb brawl strategy. My timing is important impeccable.
A lot’s been said at this point, not sure I can add anymore precisely new. I care about this issue as much as you do.
I honestly wonder what happens next. The NBA thing happening at the same time is just incredible timing and now with word that ESPN is banning all talk of the NBA incident....
All of this feels like a harbinger of things to come (ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL). People are pissed, but corporations don't appear to be backing down and some are obviously even covering for it (ESPN and, by extension, Disney).
So the logical retaliation is to troll / get them to comment on HK in a more direct means which could jeopardize / end their business in China....or confirm that, maybe, globalism has some down sides.
It's really fascinating in a stomach churning, sick way.
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I was watching Thijs earlier and it was really disappointing how he was blatantly ignoring the political fallout of yesterday and his mods were instabanning + deleting messages and in subscriber only slow mode
Guess he knows what side his bread is buttered, I won't be tuning into any more of his streams
It's a common thing with streamers, and often really disappointing. I understand why they do it so I try not to hold it against them too much, but it's still sad. (A streamer could seriously destroy their livelihood by saying the "wrong" thing, Blizzard has enough money and power to not really have the same excuse imo.)
yeah a streamer's life is a precarious thing (particularly a hearthstone streamer) so people following Kibler's lead will be the exception, not the rule
yeah a streamer's life is a precarious thing (particularly a hearthstone streamer) so people following Kibler's lead will be the exception, not the rule
Which is part of why it's cool that Kibler specifically called that out. It was a really good statement
Either way, it saddens me people are forced into expressing their political views on gamestreams.
The idea that politics are this little box you can set aside when convenient is something of a poisonous idea that, in part, led to this current mess we’re in.
Not that people need to announce their politics on a gaming stream all the time, but we need to be comfortable with sharing our politics and excising the cancerous people before they metastasize.
People attacking other streamers and basically forcing them to take a stance and give up their job is something else entirely, and feels like it counters the actual message, and I feel is also overreacting.
Of course yesterday I make a post after everyone has kinda moved on from politics, and now we’re back on it and I throw out my dumb brawl strategy. My timing is important impeccable.
A lot’s been said at this point, not sure I can add anymore precisely new. I care about this issue as much as you do.
I just wanted to say something @GoodKingJayIII and anyone else here that is still playing Blizzard's games right now. It's okay. You're more than allowed to play and enjoy their games still, and we as a community shouldn't (and I hope haven't) harass you or anyone into doing something you otherwise wouldn't do. I just wanted to put that out there since your post kind of came off as 'maybe it was the wrong time to post a strategy for the tavern brawl', no man. It's perfectly cool, and gamers are allowed to continue playing what they like regardless of politics. In the same way that streamers who make a living off of playing Blizzard games shouldn't be harassed into giving up their job.
i just hope we see a ton of "FREE HONG KONG" signs in the audience at blizzcon and we just get people fuckin *chanting* that shit
that'd make my fuckin' day
course, i've long since stopped buying the virtual ticket (and no one should at this point, honestly), but i'm sure i'll still hear about it if it happens
i mean i wouldn't blame anyone for still continuing to play, yknow, games that they enjoy playing. that's, like. yknow. i don't think you should get upset at someone for not wanting to drop a game they like playing at the drop of a hat.
i respect the people that do, because that's very huge thing to do, but.
i'm still gonna play hearthstone, like. i still like playing it, i mean.
It's a tricky thing because for example, even though I don't really like the game much right now, I still hang out in the thread because I like the community we have here. But that community being based around a Blizzard game is, right now, personally morally fraught. So I sit there going "How much do I even want to post to hang out with these guys, how much am I endorsing the game by doing that, eugh, why do I have to have this thought process?"
+3
Options
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
edited October 2019
I play the game because it’s a good way to waste time on the toilet. They’ve given them a ton of my money over the years and the current status of the game is such that I don’t view it as anything more than a time waster. I did give them $15 for the expansion, but otherwise have spent no money since... I dunno, before the mech expansion. And I don’t really play other mobile games because the time and pay models are usually so dirty.
I’d happily drop HS if something like Slay the Spire were on mobile.
But Blizzard has rapidly become a company I don’t care to support. They largely don’t make games I want to play anymore, and recent events have reminded me that they are just like every other public company and only care to protect their shareholders.
The official twitter statement full of nationalist garbage was gross and I’m not going to support something like that. Certainly not with my dollars and when something better comes along, not my time either.
Posts
It's never happened but I can't imagine a streamer shouting, "Stop the Keystone Pipeline!" or "Get out of Crimea, Russia!" during a broadcasted tournament would be banned from all play for a year. Maybe a tournament forfeiture but not a whole year.
That, and the whole Communist-Party-suck-up language in their Chinese "tweet" on the issue.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Not that people need to announce their politics on a gaming stream all the time, but we need to be comfortable with sharing our politics and excising the cancerous people before they metastasize.
proud of my boi Kibler for doing the right thing - and kinda agree with his take.
If Blizzard had done a slap on the wrists, I could have forgiven them
But the huge overpunishment is just incredibly unfair - hearthstone pro is not an easy job and just completely crushing everyone involved is total bullshit
https://medium.com/@alascii
Not going to lie, after the beginning I wondered if Kibler was about to get torched, but it got better.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Tim Sweeney is founder and CEO of Epic Games, which is owned 40% by Tencent, a Chinese State company
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
and the more i don't like it the more politics it is
https://medium.com/@alascii
the media we consume as a culture -- movies, tv shows, books, video games, what have you -- these are all inherently political things
anyone who creates anything puts their beliefs into it, including politics
have you watched a tv show, seen a movie, played a video game in the past.... ever? it contained a political message, i guarantee you
FF6, which is one of my favorite games ever, is EXTREMELY political (empire bad! overthrow the corrupt!)
some games are much more overt about this. in wolfenstein you go out and kill fucking nazis, ffs.
world of warcraft, which hearthstone is based off of, contains its own set of politics even
saying "i don't like mixing gaming and politics" is a super weird thing to say considering it's been there this whole time
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
I mean overt, real world politics. I know they already contain politics, but overall gaming should (IMO) be an escape. But sometimes it's fine too, it's just a balancing act. But just as an example, when Braid suddenly went from weird fantasy setting to an anti-nukes alagory, that's when that game lost me. I don't like that kind of preachy stuff.
TBH, this isn't even necessarily the same situation since I don't really count gaming streams (or stuff outside the games themselves) in this. Stuff is gonna be said on streams, that's totally fine with me.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Haven't seen anything about that. They did stop doing all player interviews, though.
Jesus, can you imagine the shitstorm if they banned American players on an American stream for that? Whooooooboy.
The problem with that though is that people and the world in general don't exist in a vacuum like that. One person's "one hour of rest" won't necessarily line up with another person's "23 hours of dealing with it".
AND the broadcast team getting fired too. It very clearly would not happen like that.
The latter of which should never be deemed “inappropriate” any where at any time for any reason.
Yes this is definitely true
I think Kibler says it best:
You are basically in a HS commercial. I see no problem with people using their own streams for politics, but when you use a official Blizzard broadcast I feel they are allowed to ban you for it, whatever the message is.
Now, the severity of the ban, and Kibler saying it's probably done to send a message, is another matter, and I agree this is where the real problem lies. Yes, it was harsh, and I get why they don't want to endorse such behavior, even if it's done for good. Next time, the line might be blurrier, and where does it end?
That being said, Kibler deciding not to be present is a very wise decision, given the circumstances, and I agree with him Blizzard overreacted.
People attacking other streamers and basically forcing them to take a stance and give up their job is something else entirely, and feels like it counters the actual message, and I feel is also overreacting.
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
See my profile here!
/popcorn
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I’m pretty sure that puts Blizzard squarely in the “You have seriously and unequivocally fucked up” territory.
1) Pick Lazul
2) get the treasure that reduces hero powers by one and gives you a second use per turn(making hers zero)
3) draft as many sylvanas’s as you can. Use the spell that copies a minion and adds it to your deck on an enemy sylvanas
4) summon endless 1/1 sylvanases for free.
5) kill the horseman with his own head.
Guess he knows what side his bread is buttered, I won't be tuning into any more of his streams
A lot’s been said at this point, not sure I can add anymore precisely new. I care about this issue as much as you do.
All of this feels like a harbinger of things to come (ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL). People are pissed, but corporations don't appear to be backing down and some are obviously even covering for it (ESPN and, by extension, Disney).
So the logical retaliation is to troll / get them to comment on HK in a more direct means which could jeopardize / end their business in China....or confirm that, maybe, globalism has some down sides.
It's really fascinating in a stomach churning, sick way.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
It's a common thing with streamers, and often really disappointing. I understand why they do it so I try not to hold it against them too much, but it's still sad. (A streamer could seriously destroy their livelihood by saying the "wrong" thing, Blizzard has enough money and power to not really have the same excuse imo.)
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
https://medium.com/@alascii
Which is part of why it's cool that Kibler specifically called that out. It was a really good statement
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
that'd make my fuckin' day
course, i've long since stopped buying the virtual ticket (and no one should at this point, honestly), but i'm sure i'll still hear about it if it happens
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
i respect the people that do, because that's very huge thing to do, but.
i'm still gonna play hearthstone, like. i still like playing it, i mean.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I’d happily drop HS if something like Slay the Spire were on mobile.
But Blizzard has rapidly become a company I don’t care to support. They largely don’t make games I want to play anymore, and recent events have reminded me that they are just like every other public company and only care to protect their shareholders.
The official twitter statement full of nationalist garbage was gross and I’m not going to support something like that. Certainly not with my dollars and when something better comes along, not my time either.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile