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[PC Build Thread] Video cards: Still expensive. Ryzen: Still awesome.

2456722

Posts

  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Fully populating a CPU does not = stuttering on another. That's not how packed task engines work. For that matter, if that were the case, that Divsion 2 required a fully packed 12 core CPU to run correctly it wouldn't run right on my 6-core CPU. I'm not asking for proof that a game can saturate the 3900X if it chooses, I'm asking for proof of the claim that four core CPU's are regularly starting to "stutter" in games.

    Sorry, I was more referring to the discussion farther up page, I just grabbed and quoted the nearest post. Didn't mean to respond directly to the stuttering, you are correct in that case.

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  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    Hm it will be kinda interesting to see if DX12 has a real-world difference. On my 3770k DX11 was still always better performance, will be interesting to see if that changes with the 3700x. I don't think that really paints a full picture though, also will have much faster RAM and running off an NVMe.

  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited July 18
    Mvrck wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    zerzhul wrote: »
    I will be very interested to see if the promise of many-thread games for PC actually proves true this generation. I remember hearing this before, MANY years ago, and it seems like it's barely trickled in by now to 2-4 cores, let alone the 8-24 that are available at the top end of the "I am not a crazy person dropping $1500 on a cpu" level. If I end up going with a Ryzen, it will likely be for being a weirdo that plays games at 1440p on one screen while having bunches of cpu and ram heavy things happening on other screens. Not sure I'll be thinking "oh man, *THIS* time the extra cores/threads will matter for games." I can hope, though :D

    It's already happening, as 4 thread units are starting to stutter on newer games, or so I'm told; it will take a few years to fully blossom, but it will happen at this rate.

    i'd love to know what magic games these are cause I pretty much play everything and I've not seen that

    It's basically not true yet. People are basing the speculation entirely on the new consoles using 8-core parts. It's not a terrible assumption, but without hard data, I don't buy for a second most PC games are "stuttering" because you only have a four core CPU. I want to see data that shows it's clearly a core-bound issue, and not just because most four core parts are starting to be long in the tooth in both IPC and frequency at this point.

    Some games are already fully populating the 3900x. Division 2 for one. They are just the exception, not the rule at this point.

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    I'll have mine on Monday so I can test some more things for you next week.

    just becuase it's maxed doesn't mean it's stuttering on machines with less cores, it can simply take advantage of more if you have it. I have a 8600 (nonk), I have a 1660ti, I play a 1080p on ultra everything, and I'm getting so many frames, the very best frames! and I would be if I had less cores as well!

    Hardtarget on
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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited July 18
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    zerzhul wrote: »
    I will be very interested to see if the promise of many-thread games for PC actually proves true this generation. I remember hearing this before, MANY years ago, and it seems like it's barely trickled in by now to 2-4 cores, let alone the 8-24 that are available at the top end of the "I am not a crazy person dropping $1500 on a cpu" level. If I end up going with a Ryzen, it will likely be for being a weirdo that plays games at 1440p on one screen while having bunches of cpu and ram heavy things happening on other screens. Not sure I'll be thinking "oh man, *THIS* time the extra cores/threads will matter for games." I can hope, though :D

    It's already happening, as 4 thread units are starting to stutter on newer games, or so I'm told; it will take a few years to fully blossom, but it will happen at this rate.

    i'd love to know what magic games these are cause I pretty much play everything and I've not seen that

    Anthem, Apex Legends, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Division 2

    Here's Anthem on my i5 6500, running at 100% max on all cores, 75 fps solid, with massive cpu stutter.



    The 4 core is dead. Long live 8.

    jungleroomx on
    Make. Time.
    Jeep-Eep
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited July 18
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    zerzhul wrote: »
    I will be very interested to see if the promise of many-thread games for PC actually proves true this generation. I remember hearing this before, MANY years ago, and it seems like it's barely trickled in by now to 2-4 cores, let alone the 8-24 that are available at the top end of the "I am not a crazy person dropping $1500 on a cpu" level. If I end up going with a Ryzen, it will likely be for being a weirdo that plays games at 1440p on one screen while having bunches of cpu and ram heavy things happening on other screens. Not sure I'll be thinking "oh man, *THIS* time the extra cores/threads will matter for games." I can hope, though :D

    It's already happening, as 4 thread units are starting to stutter on newer games, or so I'm told; it will take a few years to fully blossom, but it will happen at this rate.

    i'd love to know what magic games these are cause I pretty much play everything and I've not seen that

    Anthem, Apex Legends, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Division 2

    Here's Anthem on my i5 6500, running at 100% max on all cores, 75 fps solid, with massive cpu stutter.



    The 4 core is dead. Long live 8.

    i uh.. think you got something else going on here. especially fucking apex legends, it's a source engined game, it'll run on a toaster.

    I know becuase I play it most days for 30 mins on my work laptop which is a i7-6700HQ with a Quadro M1000M. obviously I have to play on low settings due to the vid card but it's extremely smooth.

    Hardtarget on
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    chrishallett83
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    i'm curious about DX12 as well, half the time the DX11 mode on games made them perform worse :\

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited July 18
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    zerzhul wrote: »
    I will be very interested to see if the promise of many-thread games for PC actually proves true this generation. I remember hearing this before, MANY years ago, and it seems like it's barely trickled in by now to 2-4 cores, let alone the 8-24 that are available at the top end of the "I am not a crazy person dropping $1500 on a cpu" level. If I end up going with a Ryzen, it will likely be for being a weirdo that plays games at 1440p on one screen while having bunches of cpu and ram heavy things happening on other screens. Not sure I'll be thinking "oh man, *THIS* time the extra cores/threads will matter for games." I can hope, though :D

    It's already happening, as 4 thread units are starting to stutter on newer games, or so I'm told; it will take a few years to fully blossom, but it will happen at this rate.

    i'd love to know what magic games these are cause I pretty much play everything and I've not seen that

    Anthem, Apex Legends, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Division 2

    Here's Anthem on my i5 6500, running at 100% max on all cores, 75 fps solid, with massive cpu stutter.



    The 4 core is dead. Long live 8.

    i uh.. think you got something else going on here. especially fucking apex legends, it's a source engined game, it'll run on a toaster.

    I know becuase I play it most days for 30 mins on my work laptop which is a i7-6700HQ with a Quadro M1000M. obviously I have to play on low settings due to the vid card but it's extremely smooth.

    I don't have a video card problem, I have a CPU problem. There is nothing else going on here, because I put in a friends i7 6900k and the stuttering went away except for Anthem. That stuttering was greatly reduced.

    I have a 4C4T CPU and all of the above games completely peg it out at 100%, and all of them stutter. Apex Legends stutters less than the others, but it's nothing compared to the silky smooth playing of Overwatch.

    4C/4T (and soon 4C/8T CPU's) are dead for gaming and I really don't think it's wise to recommend them in people looking to build towards the future.

    jungleroomx on
    Make. Time.
    Jeep-Eep
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    that's really weird

    (with that said are 4core CPUs even made anymore, hasn't everything switched up to 6 or 8 on the low end?)

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  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Aridhol wrote: »
    I'm finally putting together my son's build which will be used for general stuff like learning programs, music and of course games and I'm settled on a ryzen processor as I got a good deal on an x370 board that supports all the way up to 3800x adequately.

    My dilemma is what CPU and GPU to get.
    I don't want to go crazy as he's not even 10 yet and he only has a 1080p 60hz monitor right now.
    I'll probably be sticking with 1080p but upping it to 144hz in the next year or so.

    Should I go for the 3600 and get some more longevity or try and pick up a 2600 or 2600x or even 2700/x?
    The 2600 is about $70 cheaper right now.

    For gpu I'm pretty much settled on a 580 or 590 but is there anything else around the $200-250 (CDN) price point I should keep an eye out for?

    get a 3600 (non x) I'm surprised you are even debating this, hell if it was litearlly me I'd get a 3600 for the same reasons I got a i5-8600 when I had to rebuild instead of a i7. he can have it for years.

    edit - also you dumb dumb, you give him your computer while you build yourself a new one

    I debated giving him mine but I'm still gonna cling to my 9600k for a while.

    3600 it is then. Now to wait for gpu deals.

    This is hilarious because I'm wringing my hands over paying more than $50 US for a laptop for my 8 y.o. (3rd gen processor, integrated graphics; all she does is watch YT vids right now)

    Crazy thought: buy a 2400G and give him a hand-me-down GPU later. For the price point, though, a 580 or 590 are perfectly fine. You may also have luck finding a 470 or 480 used at a great price.

    Actually, if I were buying a desktop for a kid, I'd pick up an office surplus Dell Optiplex off Ebay and give it a refresh (SSD, moderate GPU, bump up RAM). You could probably do the whole thing for under $400 CAD

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited July 18
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    that's really weird

    (with that said are 4core CPUs even made anymore, hasn't everything switched up to 6 or 8 on the low end?)

    I'd say anything without 12 threads at least on the bottom end is not worth purchasing right now edit: for a gaming PC.

    jungleroomx on
    Make. Time.
    Jeep-Eep
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited July 18
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Aridhol wrote: »
    I'm finally putting together my son's build which will be used for general stuff like learning programs, music and of course games and I'm settled on a ryzen processor as I got a good deal on an x370 board that supports all the way up to 3800x adequately.

    My dilemma is what CPU and GPU to get.
    I don't want to go crazy as he's not even 10 yet and he only has a 1080p 60hz monitor right now.
    I'll probably be sticking with 1080p but upping it to 144hz in the next year or so.

    Should I go for the 3600 and get some more longevity or try and pick up a 2600 or 2600x or even 2700/x?
    The 2600 is about $70 cheaper right now.

    For gpu I'm pretty much settled on a 580 or 590 but is there anything else around the $200-250 (CDN) price point I should keep an eye out for?

    get a 3600 (non x) I'm surprised you are even debating this, hell if it was litearlly me I'd get a 3600 for the same reasons I got a i5-8600 when I had to rebuild instead of a i7. he can have it for years.

    edit - also you dumb dumb, you give him your computer while you build yourself a new one

    I debated giving him mine but I'm still gonna cling to my 9600k for a while.

    3600 it is then. Now to wait for gpu deals.

    oh man ok ya a 9600k could last you 5 more years if you wanted lol.

    I went with a 1660ti months ago cause i knew i was only gonna game at 1080 for quite a few years still. I'm not sure how much GPU you'll be able to get in the 200range that'll also get you up to 144hz with good performance

    edit - I actually agree with @Mugsley but I assume you want a fun build and the "computer for you son" is just an excuse ;)

    Hardtarget on
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  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    I played apex on a 2500 (non K) at a mix of settings in 1080p with a gtx 960.

    No stuttering.

    I never tried Anthem on it but the 8 cores or bust train has certainly not left the station.

    The way you can tell is that the vast majority of gamers are using that older hardware and playing without issue.

    More is better being the future is true as engines evolve but I think we're still well within the transition point.

    Best advice as always is to buy the best CPU you can afford that does the things you want it to do to the level you want. This entails making a list of games and software and seeking out reviews and benchmarks.


    Hardtarget
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited July 18
    honestly if my mobo hadn't of died i'd still be rocking my 2600k, especially now that I have a 1660ti.
    Ryzen 2 is the first time where I would have seen a tangible increase in benefit from that 2600k.

    Hardtarget on
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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    edited July 18
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    honestly if my mobo hadn't of died i'd still be rocking my 2600k, especially now that I have a 1660ti.
    Ryzen 2 is the first time where I would have seen a tangible increase in benefit from that 2600k.

    I'm still rocking a 2600k and a 980. Ryzen 3000 is the first generation to come around that of consider it to be worth upgrading to.

    That_Guy on
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    Hardtarget
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    honestly if my mobo hadn't of died i'd still be rocking my 2600k, especially now that I have a 1660ti.
    Ryzen 2 is the first time where I would have seen a tangible increase in benefit from that 2600k.

    I'm still rocking a 2600k and a 980. Ryzen 3000 is the first generation to come around that of consider it to be worth upgrading to.
    nice!
    I had a 970 paired with my 2600k. was a good combo.

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    Aridhol
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    The aforementioned 2500 WAS my son's machine and it was an old hp workstation.
    I know it seems like overkill but this is what he asked for from everyone as a birthday gift (I'm only pitching in about $250-300) the rest is birthday money from family and some savings.

    Its fun for me to build but it will also be fun to keep playing some co-op games with him and I want to be able to play whatever comes out in the next couple years.

    Definitely overspending for his age but meh, it's a hobby and hopefully we can get 5 years out of it :)


    Now @Hardtarget has me questioning my life choices and wondering if I should shove the 9600k in his machine and get me a 3800x...

    BouwsTHardtarget
  • IncindiumIncindium Registered User regular
    Hey so realistically how much would an Core i7-3770K (Ivy Bridge) system with 16GB of RAM, 250GB SSD, and a 1050-Ti be worth on the used market?

    I think I might do some parts swapping from my old system into my son's system and then sell what's left to my nephew for cheap.

    Looking on Ebay it might be worth $350? So if I sold it to him for $175 that should be a pretty good deal for him?

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Yeah $300 would be probably what that'd realistically go for.

    Ladies.
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    zerzhul wrote: »
    I will be very interested to see if the promise of many-thread games for PC actually proves true this generation. I remember hearing this before, MANY years ago, and it seems like it's barely trickled in by now to 2-4 cores, let alone the 8-24 that are available at the top end of the "I am not a crazy person dropping $1500 on a cpu" level. If I end up going with a Ryzen, it will likely be for being a weirdo that plays games at 1440p on one screen while having bunches of cpu and ram heavy things happening on other screens. Not sure I'll be thinking "oh man, *THIS* time the extra cores/threads will matter for games." I can hope, though :D

    Keep in mind when we were saying this originally, games were universally single threaded. Now you'd be hard pressed to find a game that doesn't use at least 4 heavy workload threads.

    wunderbarJeep-Eep
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited July 18
    LD50 wrote: »
    zerzhul wrote: »
    I will be very interested to see if the promise of many-thread games for PC actually proves true this generation. I remember hearing this before, MANY years ago, and it seems like it's barely trickled in by now to 2-4 cores, let alone the 8-24 that are available at the top end of the "I am not a crazy person dropping $1500 on a cpu" level. If I end up going with a Ryzen, it will likely be for being a weirdo that plays games at 1440p on one screen while having bunches of cpu and ram heavy things happening on other screens. Not sure I'll be thinking "oh man, *THIS* time the extra cores/threads will matter for games." I can hope, though :D

    Keep in mind when we were saying this originally, games were universally single threaded. Now you'd be hard pressed to find a game that doesn't use at least 4 heavy workload threads.

    Within a few years, I expect the standard floor to be at least 6, with many - particularly games of console origin or developed with consoles in mind - 7/8 and upward, quite likely precipitously.

    Jeep-Eep on
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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Now that Intel and AMD have moved beyond 4 cores, and with a new batch of consoles on the horizon, I'd say that the next year will be a boon for multithreaded multimedia.

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  • Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    Dixon wrote: »
    Also can we add canadacomputers.com to the Canada list, I shop through them sometimes. Pretty comparable to newegg.ca

    We might want to remove newegg as well. They were sold to a Chinese company and lately they seem to mostly have 3rd party stuff of questionable quality.

    "The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    @Incindium decent PSU and case too? $300 may be on the higher end but is a good starting point. Selling it to him for under $200 is a solid deal and a great way to get a PC lover hooked.

    @Aridhol everyone has their own priorities and if you interpreted me as judging, I apologize (I'm also a bit jealous). I was just trying to give perspective to what I'm dealing with; which is more of "I just want a screen that plays videos but is more than a tablet". Go crazy with it! Maybe after you give it to him, have him pick out some RGB for it, or sticker up the case?

  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    I pulled the trigger on this PCIe 4.2 SSD today thanks to a coupon. Now all I need is the mobo, CPU and GPU. IDK if I want to wait until September for the 3950x to come out. I might just pick up a 3900x when the 2080 Super comes out next week.

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    DixonJragghen
  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    Mmmm that drive is sexy, nice choice

  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    As someone barreling toward a major project at work, September is not as far away as it feels.

    Also despite pesky things like 'actual dates,' the end of July is only like 3 days away. I'm totally not panicking.

  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited July 19
    This isn't exactly a pc build question, but I'm hoping smarter people than me here could help me troubleshoot a weird graphic problem.

    My graphics card is a 980 if that matters.

    So when I play FFXIV, I load up the game and if I didn't know any better everything would be fine. However I accidentally hit the "zoom" button on my mouse once, which just un-fullscreens the game (alt-enter does the same thing, I just noticed it the first time via the accidental mouse click), everything is considerably more vibrant. And afterward when I put the game back fullscreen it keeps that vibrancy.

    By that I mean before the change everything is apparently super washed out and all the colors feel like they've been put through a haze.

    Thing is, I know the vibrant version is the way the game is supposed to look, both by loading it up on my old PC and looking at screenshots to compare.

    I have no idea if XIV is the only game this happens with, I can't say I ever noticed and tried to switch it.

    What I'm trying ti figure out is why this is happening. And why only on the initial load, and why making the game lose focus in Windows and regain it loses the "haze" and makes it look correct.

    Any ideas?

    EDIT: Seems to only be FFXIV, at least from the handful of games I just tried. I don't see any settings in XIV that would do that. I'll ask in the XIV thread too. it's just weird.

    The Dude With Herpes on
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  • ErlkönigErlkönig Registered User regular
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    Dixon wrote: »
    Also can we add canadacomputers.com to the Canada list, I shop through them sometimes. Pretty comparable to newegg.ca

    We might want to remove newegg as well. They were sold to a Chinese company and lately they seem to mostly have 3rd party stuff of questionable quality.

    Which you can pretty readily filter out by clicking the little bubble next to "Vendors" labeled "Newegg." Bought my 2070 Super through them (and from them), and they're a fine enough vendor still.

    Much like Amazon, just make sure you're careful with who's actually selling what you're buying.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    All right. RAM ordered, 2 1TB NVME drives ordered, motherboard ordered, just leaving the CPU which is backordered everywhere.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    edited July 19
    Final build:

    PCPartPicker Part List

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor
    CPU Cooler: Corsair - H115i RGB PLATINUM 97 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
    Motherboard: Asus - PRIME X570-PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard
    Memory: Crucial - Ballistix Sport LT 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
    Storage: (2) Samsung - 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive
    Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11 GB FTW3 HYBRID GAMING Video Card
    Case: Fractal Design - Define R6 USB-C ATX Mid Tower Case
    Power Supply: Corsair - HX Platinum 1000 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply
    Optical Drive: BluRay drive brought over from current computer
    Monitor: Dell - S2716DGR 27.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor

    Edit: removed links and inaccurate prices

    Orca on
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    Aridhol
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Do you already have the 1080?

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Do you already have the 1080?

    Bought used last year for $500. Seems to be holding its value well so far.

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    That_Guy
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Do you already have the 1080?

    Bought used last year for $500. Seems to be holding its value well so far.

    Cool. Do you already have that PSU too?

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  • IncindiumIncindium Registered User regular
    edited July 19
    The Corsair 1000w was a Prime day special for $150. A couple of us in the thread pulled the trigger on that looks like.

    Incindium on
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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Incindium wrote: »
    The Corsair 1000w was a Prime day special for $150. A couple of us in the thread pulled the trigger on that looks like.

    I ended up with the 750 Gold. 1KW is total overkill for anything any of us would be doing with a PC.

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  • Ear3nd1lEar3nd1l Eärendil the Mariner, father of Elrond Registered User regular
    edited July 19
    Someone gave me a Corsair 1200 Platinum PSU a couple of years ago in exchange for some work I did for him. He used to be into bit mining, and it was left over from a machine he parted out.

    Ear3nd1l on
    That_Guy
  • IncindiumIncindium Registered User regular
    Was curious about what the actual energy savings between Gold and Platinum are and found this article by Corsair.

    Scroll down to the chart at the bottom of the article.

    https://www.corsair.com/us/en/blog/80-plus-platinum-what-does-it-mean-and-what-is-the-benefit-to-me

    Difference is only a couple bucks a year.

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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Incindium wrote: »
    Was curious about what the actual energy savings between Gold and Platinum are and found this article by Corsair.

    Scroll down to the chart at the bottom of the article.

    https://www.corsair.com/us/en/blog/80-plus-platinum-what-does-it-mean-and-what-is-the-benefit-to-me

    Difference is only a couple bucks a year.

    It's not really just about power savings. The different tiers of 80+ are generally built to different standards. You can generally expect an 80+ Gold to be a higher overall quality PSU than an 80+ Bronze.

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  • IncindiumIncindium Registered User regular
    edited July 19
    Yeah but the rating 80+ Gold or 80+ Platinum is literally just about power efficiency curve under load for the power being used. Are they getting that efficiency by using better parts, sure. Is there any real world impact other than using less watts of energy over time, probably not.

    Incindium on
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    Nintendo ID: Incindium
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