I'm feeling like splurging to get a pcie4 nvme drive. Someone want to talk me out of it?
Do you not like blazing fast sequential read and write speeds or something?
DO IT
The first gen pcie 4 nvme controllers don't produce all that much extra theoretical performance over late model pcie3. Never mind actual real world perceptible improvement.
An EVO or WD Black will already be ridiculous speed.
I'm feeling like splurging to get a pcie4 nvme drive. Someone want to talk me out of it?
Do you not like blazing fast sequential read and write speeds or something?
DO IT
The first gen pcie 4 nvme controllers don't produce all that much extra theoretical performance over late model pcie3. Never mind actual real world perceptible improvement.
An EVO or WD Black will already be ridiculous speed.
Though to be fair, an Evo isn't that much cheaper either
+1
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I have a PCI-e 3.0 NVMe drive (Samsung 970 EVO) and it's monstrously fast. I can't imagine a need for a PCI-e 4.0 drive right now. That said if you can get one near the price point of a PCI-e 3.0 drive, I guess do it?
I'm feeling like splurging to get a pcie4 nvme drive. Someone want to talk me out of it?
Do you not like blazing fast sequential read and write speeds or something?
DO IT
The first gen pcie 4 nvme controllers don't produce all that much extra theoretical performance over late model pcie3. Never mind actual real world perceptible improvement.
An EVO or WD Black will already be ridiculous speed.
Though to be fair, an Evo isn't that much cheaper either
EVO Pro, no perhaps not. "Vanilla" EVO is considerably cheaper, and virtually the same performance. Ditto the WD Black.
The thing is, even a cheap NVME SSD is insanely fast. They're faster than my RAM was a couple of builds ago, and the peak transfer difference between an NVME SSD and a SATA SSD is a ratio of the order of 6 or 7:1
Going from PCI 3 NVME to PCI 4, the stepping is something like 4:5
Basically it's like upgrading your supercar to a fighter jet, and then muttering that your F4 Phantom isn't as fast the new F22s. You're already able to exceed Mach 1! Your 22 mile commute literally isn't far enough for the F22 to go any faster than that!
(Disclaimer: I do not feel like looking up the comparitive speeds of those aircraft. You know what I mean)
+1
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
My 3950X is out for delivery. Woot. Should be here when I get back from my orthopedist appointment today. I'll use having to take the cooler off the chip as an excuse to flip it around as well.
Hm, wonder if I should get a GPU or a monitor the next time I have some money. I'm still on a R7 260x, and I'm assuming at this point decent onboard GPUs aren't far behind it, much less anything real.
But since my old main monitor broke I've been limited to the little 1366x768 thing I had been using as a secondary, so it's not like the 260x is having to put in much work...but if I buy a new monitor and suddenly the GPU becomes a bottleneck that feels shittier I think? Though I guess I can always run things in little windows and enjoy the spare real estate. But I kind of worry about an old card maybe failing and leaving me boned. :rotate:
I tried talking people off top end upgrades before and it didn't work.
Go do you, and report back about the speed!
People have tried talking me off them and it didn't work.
Trying is just a thing geeks seem to need to do for each other. It's our equivalent of primate grooming rituals.
For instance, if they're on socket AM4, I will absolutely buy a 12 or 16-core Zen 3 even though this Zen+ 2700 I have is perfectly adequate. I will be sadly disappointed if at least 2 people don't try and tell me I needn't.
Hm, wonder if I should get a GPU or a monitor the next time I have some money. I'm still on a R7 260x, and I'm assuming at this point decent onboard GPUs aren't far behind it, much less anything real.
But since my old main monitor broke I've been limited to the little 1366x768 thing I had been using as a secondary, so it's not like the 260x is having to put in much work...but if I buy a new monitor and suddenly the GPU becomes a bottleneck that feels shittier I think? Though I guess I can always run things in little windows and enjoy the spare real estate. But I kind of worry about an old card maybe failing and leaving me boned. :rotate:
I'd get both at the same time if you can swing it, even if it takes some extra time to get the cash together.
But if I have to choose one or another first, I'd do monitor. Less so for gaming but more for every day stuff. I couldn't use windows at 768p anymore, it would be too cramped. I would rather game on 1080p medium settings than look at a Windows desktop at 768p.
Hm, wonder if I should get a GPU or a monitor the next time I have some money. I'm still on a R7 260x, and I'm assuming at this point decent onboard GPUs aren't far behind it, much less anything real.
But since my old main monitor broke I've been limited to the little 1366x768 thing I had been using as a secondary, so it's not like the 260x is having to put in much work...but if I buy a new monitor and suddenly the GPU becomes a bottleneck that feels shittier I think? Though I guess I can always run things in little windows and enjoy the spare real estate. But I kind of worry about an old card maybe failing and leaving me boned. :rotate:
I'd get both at the same time if you can swing it, even if it takes some extra time to get the cash together.
But if I have to choose one or another first, I'd do monitor. Less so for gaming but more for every day stuff. I couldn't use windows at 768p anymore, it would be too cramped. I would rather game on 1080p medium settings than look at a Windows desktop at 768p.
I'm leaning this way too, mostly just to have a second monitor again.
Yeah I heard the controller on the drives is what is holding the current models back. I was reading something on a few websites about new controllers being released which should step performance considerably, although like others are saying, I'm not sure there will be a perceivable difference for practical tasks.
So, since plans are to build a new computer this summer, I should probably start deciding some parts so I can look for bargains. I have plenty of hard drive space and I just got a nice 2060, so mostly it's a matter of replacing CPU, RAM, mobo, cooling, and case. Maybe PSU, depending, though mine seems to be going strong.
What I'm not entirely sure is what to go for in terms of CPU and RAM, because I'm thinking I might go for a Ryzen but I have no actual intuitive understanding of how the different models stack up in general or how much of a pest they are to set up, since I hear they kinda spin weirdly with fans and may need special profiles? I do have a pretty decent budget, since I expect to be able to spend some 1500 euro on those components if necessary, what I don't have is a starting point.
So, since plans are to build a new computer this summer, I should probably start deciding some parts so I can look for bargains. I have plenty of hard drive space and I just got a nice 2060, so mostly it's a matter of replacing CPU, RAM, cooling, power supply, and case.
What I'm not entirely sure is what to go for in terms of CPU and RAM, because I'm thinking I might go for a Ryzen but I have no actual intuitive understanding of how the different models stack up in general or how much of a pest they are to set up, since I hear they kinda spin weirdly with fans and may need special profiles?
The first question is always budget. The second question is always use case. Is this mostly for gaming, or do you do a lot of things that would benefit from the highest core counts possible?
So, since plans are to build a new computer this summer, I should probably start deciding some parts so I can look for bargains. I have plenty of hard drive space and I just got a nice 2060, so mostly it's a matter of replacing CPU, RAM, cooling, power supply, and case.
What I'm not entirely sure is what to go for in terms of CPU and RAM, because I'm thinking I might go for a Ryzen but I have no actual intuitive understanding of how the different models stack up in general or how much of a pest they are to set up, since I hear they kinda spin weirdly with fans and may need special profiles?
The first question is always budget. The second question is always use case. Is this mostly for gaming, or do you do a lot of things that would benefit from the highest core counts possible?
Yeah, I realized that a second later and added the budget on an edit, but basically, I expect to be able to throw a max of 1.5K euro or so on the combination of CPU, RAM, cooling, mobo, and case. Hopefully renew PSU, if budget allows, but mine is going strong still, so it's not, like, necessary.
As for use case, being real, it's about 70% gaming 30% programming and running the occasional linux virtual boxes for various work stuff.
Not sure if you already have an NVME drive, but you should have one.
Spain, actually, but it's a starting point.
Thanks for the suggestions! Couple things I'm wondering:
- Where does the radiator of that AIO go, in this case? The front is obviously intake, and the side seems to be a transparent window (which, to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of). If the answer is "at the top", then I probably need to start looking for something else, cause my computer's placement is such that while sides are open, a top exhaust would be kinda blocked with stuff.
- Wow, that's one expensive mobo. I don't think I've ever had a build where the motherboard is the single most expensive part of the build, and honestly I can't help but wonder what does it provide that a 200€ mobo doesn't. Or is it just that Ryzen mobos are expensive? Cause, like, that difference is a new PSU plus an extra fan or two right there!
Both solid choices at about the same price. The 011-D is great, I think the footprint (width x depth) is a little too big for my tastes. And I think the NZXT cases have a bit more traditional layout that doesn't require quite as much fan fiddling.
Hm, wonder if I should get a GPU or a monitor the next time I have some money. I'm still on a R7 260x, and I'm assuming at this point decent onboard GPUs aren't far behind it, much less anything real.
But since my old main monitor broke I've been limited to the little 1366x768 thing I had been using as a secondary, so it's not like the 260x is having to put in much work...but if I buy a new monitor and suddenly the GPU becomes a bottleneck that feels shittier I think? Though I guess I can always run things in little windows and enjoy the spare real estate. But I kind of worry about an old card maybe failing and leaving me boned. :rotate:
To echo the above, you really, really need to get a new monitor if you're running at 1366 x 768. Your GPU does 1080p (not well, I would presume). At this point, getting a new GPU is the metaphorical (and maybe literal) equivalent of buying an SSD and not actually having any any software or media to install on it. Sure, SSDs are sexy or whatever. They're also literally useless if they're empty (well, perhaps they make sub-standard coasters).
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Not sure if you already have an NVME drive, but you should have one.
Spain, actually, but it's a starting point.
Thanks for the suggestions! Couple things I'm wondering:
- Where does the radiator of that AIO go, in this case? The front is obviously intake, and the side seems to be a transparent window (which, to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of). If the answer is "at the top", then I probably need to start looking for something else, cause my computer's placement is such that while sides are open, a top exhaust would be kinda blocked with stuff.
- Wow, that's one expensive mobo. I don't think I've ever had a build where the motherboard is the single most expensive part of the build, and honestly I can't help but wonder what does it provide that a 200€ mobo doesn't. Or is it just that Ryzen mobos are expensive? Cause, like, that difference is a new PSU plus an extra fan or two right there!
I think you could probably step down the mobo a tad unless you're doing something extreme with it.
Would something like the Fractal Define R6 fit your needs better? It has 360mm of space in the front so you could mount the two AIO exhaust fans high up on the front or even at the bottom, leaving space for a front-facing intake fan to blow cooler air on the GPU. Also, no tempered glass panels.
I will also second the recommendation on the AIO for your use case, since you live in Spain and (I HEAR but have no first hand experience) that you're not as reliant on air conditioning as we in the US are.
Fractal cases are fantastic, so I'll second that suggestion.
Only change I would make is to swap out the H115i Pro for the H115i Pro XT. Should be about the same price and it looks like the water block is slightly larger which should better cover the cpu.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited January 2020
3950X installed:
Interestingly it runs quite a bit cooler than the 3900X did. Probably because the base clock is lower, but the boost clock is higher? Who knows. All I know is it runs cool and is a monster. What a CPU.
e: Now I just need to get all the thermal paste off this 3900X so Amazon doesn't give me shit about having used it
Not sure if you already have an NVME drive, but you should have one.
Spain, actually, but it's a starting point.
Thanks for the suggestions! Couple things I'm wondering:
- Where does the radiator of that AIO go, in this case? The front is obviously intake, and the side seems to be a transparent window (which, to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of). If the answer is "at the top", then I probably need to start looking for something else, cause my computer's placement is such that while sides are open, a top exhaust would be kinda blocked with stuff.
- Wow, that's one expensive mobo. I don't think I've ever had a build where the motherboard is the single most expensive part of the build, and honestly I can't help but wonder what does it provide that a 200€ mobo doesn't. Or is it just that Ryzen mobos are expensive? Cause, like, that difference is a new PSU plus an extra fan or two right there!
I'd probably put the AIO in the front as an intake in your case. EDIT: Having more intake fans than exhaust fans is a good idea, because those fans are usually filtered and it reduces dust buildup.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited January 2020
Good. Hopefully they've got their drivers humming by the time big Navi releases. Provided AMD actually has a competitive card at the tippy-top end, I'd like the option of going that route without worrying about driver issues. Given equal hardware and competitive prices I'd choose Nvidia 100% of the time right now because of drivers. I'll be happy if AMD changes my mind on that.
My local store has a 3600X open box for $150 US with a note that says "BENT PINS" and now I kinda want to drive up there and see how severe the pin bending is.
They've also got a 3600 open box for the same price with the same note.
Finished my build! Ryzen 5 3600, 2060 Super, Noctua CPU cooler.
So, uh, when I turn my computer on, the first CPU temp reading it's giving me is 48-50C. It's not that hot in my house, and considering this is after it being off all night, I'm inclined to think the temp calibration is off? Maybe?
After a few hours of gaming it gets up to like 60-62C, so not a huge swing, but...should I be concerned about that initial reading? I feel like I should be.
XBL: Jhnny Cash PSN: Jhnny_Cash Steam ID: http://steamcommunity.com/id/hypephb 3DS: 0619-4582-9630 Nintendo Network ID: DBrickashaw
You might know me as D'Brickashaw on Steam.
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited January 2020
No, those are all normal, nothing to be worried about. Ryzen chips run on the warm side at what we would consider idle. 60-62C under load is excellent. The thermal throttle point of the CPU is 95C, though the more you can keep it below that the better it will clock up to it's rated boost clock.
e: Keep in mind the first temp you read in your monitoring software on boot is not going to be at idle. It takes a couple of minutes for Windows to fully settle down after a reboot so you can get a true "idle" reading. The first reading I see on my 3950X is regularly 50-60C as it's doing all the various Windows boot tasks and startup software. It settles to the low 40's when the system is just sitting.
No, those are all normal, nothing to be worried about. Ryzen chips run on the warm side at what we would consider idle. 60-62C under load is excellent. The thermal throttle point of the CPU is 95C, though the more you can keep it below that the better it will clock up to it's rated boost clock.
e: Keep in mind the first temp you read in your monitoring software on boot is not going to be at idle. It takes a couple of minutes for Windows to fully settle down after a reboot so you can get a true "idle" reading. The first reading I see on my 3950X is regularly 50-60C as it's doing all the various Windows boot tasks and startup software. It settles to the low 40's when the system is just sitting.
Excellent, thanks for the info!
XBL: Jhnny Cash PSN: Jhnny_Cash Steam ID: http://steamcommunity.com/id/hypephb 3DS: 0619-4582-9630 Nintendo Network ID: DBrickashaw
You might know me as D'Brickashaw on Steam.
0
pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
Is it spiking to 50 or staying consistently at it? The former is normal ryzen behavior, but with a noctua, it should probably be settling lower than that. Obviously it’s not dangerous or anything, and low 60s under load is excellent, but maybe you need to mess with your power plan settings or something if the idle reading is that high.
psn tooaware, friend code SW-4760-0062-3248 it me
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
If my computer so much as sniffs running CPU instructions on more than one core, my 3950X spikes to 50. Having it sit regularly between 40-50 is really quite normal. It's really the top end temperature you should concern yourself with on Ryzen CPU's. Provided it's staying below 75-80C and you're getting your max boost clocks when you should, it's perfectly fine.
Posts
Do you not like blazing fast sequential read and write speeds or something?
The first gen pcie 4 nvme controllers don't produce all that much extra theoretical performance over late model pcie3. Never mind actual real world perceptible improvement.
An EVO or WD Black will already be ridiculous speed.
Though to be fair, an Evo isn't that much cheaper either
EVO Pro, no perhaps not. "Vanilla" EVO is considerably cheaper, and virtually the same performance. Ditto the WD Black.
The thing is, even a cheap NVME SSD is insanely fast. They're faster than my RAM was a couple of builds ago, and the peak transfer difference between an NVME SSD and a SATA SSD is a ratio of the order of 6 or 7:1
Going from PCI 3 NVME to PCI 4, the stepping is something like 4:5
Basically it's like upgrading your supercar to a fighter jet, and then muttering that your F4 Phantom isn't as fast the new F22s. You're already able to exceed Mach 1! Your 22 mile commute literally isn't far enough for the F22 to go any faster than that!
(Disclaimer: I do not feel like looking up the comparitive speeds of those aircraft. You know what I mean)
Go do you, and report back about the speed!
But since my old main monitor broke I've been limited to the little 1366x768 thing I had been using as a secondary, so it's not like the 260x is having to put in much work...but if I buy a new monitor and suddenly the GPU becomes a bottleneck that feels shittier I think? Though I guess I can always run things in little windows and enjoy the spare real estate. But I kind of worry about an old card maybe failing and leaving me boned. :rotate:
People have tried talking me off them and it didn't work.
Trying is just a thing geeks seem to need to do for each other. It's our equivalent of primate grooming rituals.
For instance, if they're on socket AM4, I will absolutely buy a 12 or 16-core Zen 3 even though this Zen+ 2700 I have is perfectly adequate. I will be sadly disappointed if at least 2 people don't try and tell me I needn't.
I'd get both at the same time if you can swing it, even if it takes some extra time to get the cash together.
But if I have to choose one or another first, I'd do monitor. Less so for gaming but more for every day stuff. I couldn't use windows at 768p anymore, it would be too cramped. I would rather game on 1080p medium settings than look at a Windows desktop at 768p.
I'm leaning this way too, mostly just to have a second monitor again.
Yea even a $100 gpu would be a huge upgrade, so you can pick up one of those anytime. Get that screen!
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
What I'm not entirely sure is what to go for in terms of CPU and RAM, because I'm thinking I might go for a Ryzen but I have no actual intuitive understanding of how the different models stack up in general or how much of a pest they are to set up, since I hear they kinda spin weirdly with fans and may need special profiles? I do have a pretty decent budget, since I expect to be able to spend some 1500 euro on those components if necessary, what I don't have is a starting point.
The first question is always budget. The second question is always use case. Is this mostly for gaming, or do you do a lot of things that would benefit from the highest core counts possible?
Yeah, I realized that a second later and added the budget on an edit, but basically, I expect to be able to throw a max of 1.5K euro or so on the combination of CPU, RAM, cooling, mobo, and case. Hopefully renew PSU, if budget allows, but mine is going strong still, so it's not, like, necessary.
As for use case, being real, it's about 70% gaming 30% programming and running the occasional linux virtual boxes for various work stuff.
PCPartPicker Part List
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor (€325.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H115i PRO 55.4 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (€138.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero ATX AM4 Motherboard (€369.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory (€187.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€143.30 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: NZXT H710 ATX Mid Tower Case (€141.69 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €1306.87
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-01-23 21:57 CET+0100
Not sure if you already have an NVME drive, but you should have one.
Spain, actually, but it's a starting point.
Thanks for the suggestions! Couple things I'm wondering:
- Where does the radiator of that AIO go, in this case? The front is obviously intake, and the side seems to be a transparent window (which, to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of). If the answer is "at the top", then I probably need to start looking for something else, cause my computer's placement is such that while sides are open, a top exhaust would be kinda blocked with stuff.
- Wow, that's one expensive mobo. I don't think I've ever had a build where the motherboard is the single most expensive part of the build, and honestly I can't help but wonder what does it provide that a 200€ mobo doesn't. Or is it just that Ryzen mobos are expensive? Cause, like, that difference is a new PSU plus an extra fan or two right there!
Both solid choices at about the same price. The 011-D is great, I think the footprint (width x depth) is a little too big for my tastes. And I think the NZXT cases have a bit more traditional layout that doesn't require quite as much fan fiddling.
To echo the above, you really, really need to get a new monitor if you're running at 1366 x 768. Your GPU does 1080p (not well, I would presume). At this point, getting a new GPU is the metaphorical (and maybe literal) equivalent of buying an SSD and not actually having any any software or media to install on it. Sure, SSDs are sexy or whatever. They're also literally useless if they're empty (well, perhaps they make sub-standard coasters).
I think you could probably step down the mobo a tad unless you're doing something extreme with it.
Gigabyte Aorus Elite
MSI MPG X570 Edge
ASUS Gaming TUF
Edit: Modified for Spain pricing
Would something like the Fractal Define R6 fit your needs better? It has 360mm of space in the front so you could mount the two AIO exhaust fans high up on the front or even at the bottom, leaving space for a front-facing intake fan to blow cooler air on the GPU. Also, no tempered glass panels.
I will also second the recommendation on the AIO for your use case, since you live in Spain and (I HEAR but have no first hand experience) that you're not as reliant on air conditioning as we in the US are.
Only change I would make is to swap out the H115i Pro for the H115i Pro XT. Should be about the same price and it looks like the water block is slightly larger which should better cover the cpu.
Interestingly it runs quite a bit cooler than the 3900X did. Probably because the base clock is lower, but the boost clock is higher? Who knows. All I know is it runs cool and is a monster. What a CPU.
e: Now I just need to get all the thermal paste off this 3900X so Amazon doesn't give me shit about having used it
I'd probably put the AIO in the front as an intake in your case. EDIT: Having more intake fans than exhaust fans is a good idea, because those fans are usually filtered and it reduces dust buildup.
If you want a cheaper motherboard I'd do this one: https://www.amazon.es/Gigabyte-Technology-X570-AORUS-ELITE/dp/B07TSKR7ZX/
And as someone else pointed out, the Fractal R6 is a good case without a window.
I don't think I've had any more issues after the last 2 versions, but i'll keep updating.
My local store has a 3600X open box for $150 US with a note that says "BENT PINS" and now I kinda want to drive up there and see how severe the pin bending is.
They've also got a 3600 open box for the same price with the same note.
So, uh, when I turn my computer on, the first CPU temp reading it's giving me is 48-50C. It's not that hot in my house, and considering this is after it being off all night, I'm inclined to think the temp calibration is off? Maybe?
After a few hours of gaming it gets up to like 60-62C, so not a huge swing, but...should I be concerned about that initial reading? I feel like I should be.
You might know me as D'Brickashaw on Steam.
e: Keep in mind the first temp you read in your monitoring software on boot is not going to be at idle. It takes a couple of minutes for Windows to fully settle down after a reboot so you can get a true "idle" reading. The first reading I see on my 3950X is regularly 50-60C as it's doing all the various Windows boot tasks and startup software. It settles to the low 40's when the system is just sitting.
Excellent, thanks for the info!
You might know me as D'Brickashaw on Steam.