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Trump admin vs science: USDA edition

Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
So this flew under my radar, and I figure it might have for others too:

The Trump administration is moving two USDA research agencies from the DC area to Kansas-ish. Despite the move being for September 30th, a final site has yet yo be selected.
https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2019/06/13/secretary-perdue-announces-kansas-city-region-location-ers-and-nifa


The claimed reason for the move is to place the agencies closer to their stakeholders. However this looks to be more of an attempted to purge the agency. On short notice and with no indication of exactly where they would be going, 2/3 of both agencies have said they will not relocated and will quit. This for agencies that are already understaffed by 20% or so.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/07/17/742519999/future-of-key-farming-research-uncertain-as-2-3-of-usda-staff-say-they-wont-move
An ex-employee of ERS recently told Morris that "efforts by the secretary ... have just destroyed morale." He said the way the agency is run has become increasingly partisan, and he resigned after the surprise announcement about relocations.

"I think it's had its intended effect. People have left, morale is low. The agency will take a long time to recover from the damage that's been inflicted," the former employee told Morris.

Some of ERS' recent studies, as Morris noted, may be politically uncomfortable for the Trump administration:

"ERS studies, for instance, concluded that the 2017 tax cuts championed by the administration would most benefit the richest farmers, and that the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, which Trump wants to cut, is good for the economy."

Perdue said last month that the move would save the USDA some $300 million. That number has been met with skepticism by some analysts. The Agricultural & Applied Economics Association estimated the relocation would actually cost taxpayers between $83 million and $182 million, partially due to the lost value of the research from staffers who decide not to move.

I can't imagine too many in-progress research projects surviving this kind of disruption. The move would mess with things as badly planned as it seems to be. But losing 2/3 of staff on top of that? That's absolutely crippling, and I suspect this will be the blueprint for the Trump administration's anti-science faction going forward. You can't just destroy these agencies without backlash, but you can move them "just happen" to do it in the most disruptive way possible, then fill the empty positions with flunkies or leave them entirely vacant.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Don't forget that Kansas is the territory of Mitch McConnell so HOOO BOY.

    Edit - Oh I'm a dumbass. In my defense though, all hard-red states are the same.

    Henroid on
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    BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Henroid wrote: »
    Don't forget that Kansas is the territory of Mitch McConnell so HOOO BOY.

    Other K state for Mitch. He reps the land of bluegrass and Bourbon.

    Kansas was/is the land of Kris Kobach, Mike Pompeo, and Sam "Make my state broke in 7 different ways" Brownback.

    Last I heard this pooch-screw was scouting mainly on the Missouri side of the Kansas City divide for space, but our local leaders have about as much insight and info on this debacle as NPR seems to.

    BlackDragon480 on
    No matter where you go...there you are.
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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Don't forget that Kansas is the territory of Mitch McConnell so HOOO BOY.

    Other K state for Mitch. He reps the land of bluegrass and Bourbon.

    Kansas was/is the land of Kris Kobach, Mike Pompeo, and Sam "Make my state broke in 7 different ways" Brownback.

    Last I heard this pooch-screw was scouting mainly on the Missouri side of the Kansas City divide for space, but our local leaders have about as much insight and info on this debacle as NPR seems to.

    That's what convinces me this whole thing is a screw-job. Relocating you could squint and provide justification for, but expecting two entire agencies to move in two months when you don't even know where you're putting them? Madness.

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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    I'm a little surprised it's not 95% resigned, though it might still climb up by time it happens. It's not just any random 2 month surprise move, but one from one of the country's biggest cities, near some of the richest counties, to...well, Somewhere, Kansas, probably some backwoods place with the cheapest property. The only people I can see agreeing to that are the desperate who don't think they can get another job in time, and whatever handful of True Trump Believers there might be (and even a lot of those would probably balk).

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Don't forget that Kansas is the territory of Mitch McConnell so HOOO BOY.

    Other K state for Mitch. He reps the land of bluegrass and Bourbon.

    Kansas was/is the land of Kris Kobach, Mike Pompeo, and Sam "Make my state broke in 7 different ways" Brownback.

    Last I heard this pooch-screw was scouting mainly on the Missouri side of the Kansas City divide for space, but our local leaders have about as much insight and info on this debacle as NPR seems to.

    That's what convinces me this whole thing is a screw-job. Relocating you could squint and provide justification for, but expecting two entire agencies to move in two months when you don't even know where you're putting them? Madness.

    It could also just be pure incompetence. Moves like this are frequently done as what is essentially vote/support buying for more rural areas.

    It tends to destroy the offices in question, completely eliminate institutional knowledge and make recruitment a huge issue because you don't have a pool of workers to staff the place and people don't wanna move there.

    Sometimes this is intentional, more often they just didn't know or care what would happen. But with Trump, you never know.

    shryke on
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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Don't forget that Kansas is the territory of Mitch McConnell so HOOO BOY.

    Other K state for Mitch. He reps the land of bluegrass and Bourbon.

    Kansas was/is the land of Kris Kobach, Mike Pompeo, and Sam "Make my state broke in 7 different ways" Brownback.

    Last I heard this pooch-screw was scouting mainly on the Missouri side of the Kansas City divide for space, but our local leaders have about as much insight and info on this debacle as NPR seems to.

    That's what convinces me this whole thing is a screw-job. Relocating you could squint and provide justification for, but expecting two entire agencies to move in two months when you don't even know where you're putting them? Madness.

    It could also just be pure incompetence. Moves like this are frequently done as what is essentially vote/support buying for more rural areas.

    It tends to destroy the offices in question, completely eliminate institutional knowledge and make recruitment a huge issue because you don't have a pool of workers to staff the place and people don't wanna move there.

    Sometimes this is intentional, more often they just didn't know or care what would happen. But with Trump, you never know.

    This is most assuredly malicious, not incompetence.

    Not even counting that the GOP has been anti-science since at least the 90’s, the Trump administration has been destroying government science research since literally the beginning of his presidency starting with the EPA’s climate data back in January ‘17.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2017/01/rogue-scientists-race-save-climate-data-trump/amp

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Don't forget that Kansas is the territory of Mitch McConnell so HOOO BOY.

    Other K state for Mitch. He reps the land of bluegrass and Bourbon.

    Kansas was/is the land of Kris Kobach, Mike Pompeo, and Sam "Make my state broke in 7 different ways" Brownback.

    Last I heard this pooch-screw was scouting mainly on the Missouri side of the Kansas City divide for space, but our local leaders have about as much insight and info on this debacle as NPR seems to.

    That's what convinces me this whole thing is a screw-job. Relocating you could squint and provide justification for, but expecting two entire agencies to move in two months when you don't even know where you're putting them? Madness.

    It could also just be pure incompetence. Moves like this are frequently done as what is essentially vote/support buying for more rural areas.

    It tends to destroy the offices in question, completely eliminate institutional knowledge and make recruitment a huge issue because you don't have a pool of workers to staff the place and people don't wanna move there.

    Sometimes this is intentional, more often they just didn't know or care what would happen. But with Trump, you never know.

    This is most assuredly malicious, not incompetence.

    Not even counting that the GOP has been anti-science since at least the 90’s, the Trump administration has been destroying government science research since literally the beginning of his presidency starting with the EPA’s climate data back in January ‘17.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2017/01/rogue-scientists-race-save-climate-data-trump/amp

    The chances are higher, yes, but what's there to indicate that's the specific point here?

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Don't forget that Kansas is the territory of Mitch McConnell so HOOO BOY.

    Other K state for Mitch. He reps the land of bluegrass and Bourbon.

    Kansas was/is the land of Kris Kobach, Mike Pompeo, and Sam "Make my state broke in 7 different ways" Brownback.

    Last I heard this pooch-screw was scouting mainly on the Missouri side of the Kansas City divide for space, but our local leaders have about as much insight and info on this debacle as NPR seems to.

    That's what convinces me this whole thing is a screw-job. Relocating you could squint and provide justification for, but expecting two entire agencies to move in two months when you don't even know where you're putting them? Madness.

    It could also just be pure incompetence. Moves like this are frequently done as what is essentially vote/support buying for more rural areas.

    It tends to destroy the offices in question, completely eliminate institutional knowledge and make recruitment a huge issue because you don't have a pool of workers to staff the place and people don't wanna move there.

    Sometimes this is intentional, more often they just didn't know or care what would happen. But with Trump, you never know.

    This is most assuredly malicious, not incompetence.

    Not even counting that the GOP has been anti-science since at least the 90’s, the Trump administration has been destroying government science research since literally the beginning of his presidency starting with the EPA’s climate data back in January ‘17.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2017/01/rogue-scientists-race-save-climate-data-trump/amp

    The chances are higher, yes, but what's there to indicate that's the specific point here?

    Yeah, while I wouldn't rule out maliciousness by someone in the chain, I think underweighting the chance that incompetence, but also graft, had at least as much reason for this decision.

    For me, the questions are...
    1) Who owns the land on which these new facilities are going to be built, or the buildings in which the department will be housed?
    2) Who runs the construction/furnishing/supply companies that are going to build/renovate these facilities.
    3) Whose district are the facilities going to be built in, that will be able to campaign on in the next election, and what did they do to get them moved there.

    I would wage heavily, that either a donor is making out like a bandit, or a Congressman and/or Senator is getting a favor returned for some unscrupulous behavior. While the decision to move might have been a malicious and/or incompetent one, I have little doubt that the decision to push it to Kansas is a payoff for someone.

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Don't forget that Kansas is the territory of Mitch McConnell so HOOO BOY.

    Other K state for Mitch. He reps the land of bluegrass and Bourbon.

    Kansas was/is the land of Kris Kobach, Mike Pompeo, and Sam "Make my state broke in 7 different ways" Brownback.

    Last I heard this pooch-screw was scouting mainly on the Missouri side of the Kansas City divide for space, but our local leaders have about as much insight and info on this debacle as NPR seems to.

    That's what convinces me this whole thing is a screw-job. Relocating you could squint and provide justification for, but expecting two entire agencies to move in two months when you don't even know where you're putting them? Madness.

    It could also just be pure incompetence. Moves like this are frequently done as what is essentially vote/support buying for more rural areas.

    It tends to destroy the offices in question, completely eliminate institutional knowledge and make recruitment a huge issue because you don't have a pool of workers to staff the place and people don't wanna move there.

    Sometimes this is intentional, more often they just didn't know or care what would happen. But with Trump, you never know.

    This is most assuredly malicious, not incompetence.

    Not even counting that the GOP has been anti-science since at least the 90’s, the Trump administration has been destroying government science research since literally the beginning of his presidency starting with the EPA’s climate data back in January ‘17.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2017/01/rogue-scientists-race-save-climate-data-trump/amp

    The chances are higher, yes, but what's there to indicate that's the specific point here?

    Moving a whole agency would be far more profitable, seeking new accommodation and establishing the various support services. In this case the location is an afterthought.

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    MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    I heard from someone at USDA that they think that it's part of an ongoing project to terrorize the career civil servants into leaving, and that it's mostly working. They thought the proximate cause was probably SNAP.

    Extremely dismal.

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