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[Fuck The Gig Economy]: AB5 Is Coming

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Posts

  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited September 11
    Eddy wrote: »
    The legislation will affect at least one million workers in California who have been on the receiving end of a decades-long trend of outsourcing and franchising work, making employer-worker relationships more arm’s-length. Many people have been pushed into contractor status with no access to basic protections like a minimum wage and unemployment insurance. Ride-hailing drivers, food-delivery couriers, janitors, nail salon workers, construction workers and franchise owners could now all be reclassified as employees.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/11/technology/california-passes-landmark-bill-to-remake-gig-economy.html

    well, damn

    Uber/Lyft/DoorDash have already said they will spend $30M (or more) on a campaign for a ballot initiative repealing this law (if signed, as expected).

    Labor unions have said they will fight those efforts, but didn't say a dollar amount.

    a5ehren on
    zepherin
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Uber has figured out a response for AB5 - namely fuck you, California:



    Faiz Siddiqui is a reporter for the Washington Post.

    Basically, they'll argue that they're actually a technology firm, whose main business is building e-commerce platforms for a variety of industries to be used by independent contractors.

    Of course, what's being ignored is that this is akin to confessing to price fixing, given how Uber operates.

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    zepherin
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Smash the gig economy by whatever means necessary. It's a grey economy that is ultimately harmful to everyone involved that isn't already rich.

    DoodmannJragghenshrykeIncenjucarPolaritieOrcaEtiowsaKnight_MegaMekBlackDragon480Stabbity StyleBloodsheedDarkewolfeTetraNitroCubaneZonugalLord_AsmodeusHacksawShadowfireMan in the MistsFencingsaxVeagleAegiszepherinDaenrisMartini_PhilosopherHefflingDee KaeZibblsnrt
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Uber has figured out a response for AB5 - namely fuck you, California:



    Faiz Siddiqui is a reporter for the Washington Post.

    Basically, they'll argue that they're actually a technology firm, whose main business is building e-commerce platforms for a variety of industries to be used by independent contractors.

    Of course, what's being ignored is that this is akin to confessing to price fixing, given how Uber operates.

    "Show me one Uber employee or work instruction concerned with the driving of cars!"

    I have to respect their play here, but weren't there other criteria in there that they would violate?

    zepherin
  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    Uber has figured out a response for AB5 - namely fuck you, California:



    Faiz Siddiqui is a reporter for the Washington Post.

    Basically, they'll argue that they're actually a technology firm, whose main business is building e-commerce platforms for a variety of industries to be used by independent contractors.

    Of course, what's being ignored is that this is akin to confessing to price fixing, given how Uber operates.

    "Show me one Uber employee or work instruction concerned with the driving of cars!"

    I have to respect their play here, but weren't there other criteria in there that they would violate?

    I think the play is:
    * Get an argument that won't get laughed out of court.
    * Get the court to put the law on hold while the case goes through the system.
    * Delay for as long as possible.
    * Use the ballot initiative process to repeal this law.

    FencingsaxzepherinMartini_PhilosopherMoridin889
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Uber has figured out a response for AB5 - namely fuck you, California:



    Faiz Siddiqui is a reporter for the Washington Post.

    Basically, they'll argue that they're actually a technology firm, whose main business is building e-commerce platforms for a variety of industries to be used by independent contractors.

    Of course, what's being ignored is that this is akin to confessing to price fixing, given how Uber operates.

    "Show me one Uber employee or work instruction concerned with the driving of cars!"

    I have to respect their play here, but weren't there other criteria in there that they would violate?

    I think the play is:
    * Get an argument that won't get laughed out of court.
    * Get the court to put the law on hold while the case goes through the system.
    * Delay for as long as possible.
    * Use the ballot initiative process to repeal this law.

    * Hope self-driving cars come into play while all this is happening

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  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular
    Uber lost $5B last quarter and laid off almost 10% of their staff this week.

    Whatever their core business is they kinda suck at it.

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  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    I Zimbra wrote: »
    Uber lost $5B last quarter and laid off almost 10% of their staff this week.

    Whatever their core business is they kinda suck at it.

    Their core business is giving investor money to the CEO and also bankrupting public transportation.

    They're actually really good at it.

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  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »
    Uber lost $5B last quarter and laid off almost 10% of their staff this week.

    Whatever their core business is they kinda suck at it.

    Their core business is giving investor money to the CEO and also bankrupting public transportation.

    They're actually really good at it.

    Well yeah, but you're not supposed to say that out loud.

    TicaldfjamzepherinMartini_Philosopher
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »
    Uber lost $5B last quarter and laid off almost 10% of their staff this week.

    Whatever their core business is they kinda suck at it.

    Their core business is giving investor money to the CEO and also bankrupting public transportation.

    They're actually really good at it.

    Honestly if this is their argument it'd be hard to argue against it

    GnizmoBlackDragon480BurtletoyMan in the MistszepherinMartini_PhilosopherMoridin889
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Uber has figured out a response for AB5 - namely fuck you, California:



    Faiz Siddiqui is a reporter for the Washington Post.

    Basically, they'll argue that they're actually a technology firm, whose main business is building e-commerce platforms for a variety of industries to be used by independent contractors.

    Of course, what's being ignored is that this is akin to confessing to price fixing, given how Uber operates.

    "Show me one Uber employee or work instruction concerned with the driving of cars!"

    I have to respect their play here, but weren't there other criteria in there that they would violate?

    Even if they aren't telling them how to drive, they are telling their drivers what to charge for fare on a trip-by-trip basis. If they are truely independent contractors, the driver should be able to set their own fare.

    Also, looking back at @AngelHedgie 's orignal summary of the court ruling, the contracter work has to be a trade skill, and driving isn't something most people would consider a trade.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    I Zimbra wrote: »
    Uber lost $5B last quarter and laid off almost 10% of their staff this week.

    Whatever their core business is they kinda suck at it.
    And it can be a successful business model. Lyft is about ready to make a profit, mostly because Uber fights all the legal battles first and they just slide in after.

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Taxi, Black Car and Limo drivers are very much a trade though, and many cities require specialized licenses to perform the work.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Taxi, Black Car and Limo drivers are very much a trade though, and many cities require specialized licenses to perform the work.

    Commercial driving as a whole is very much a trade, with its own state based licensure system (the CDL) which can then have further licensure as pointed out.

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  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Taxi, Black Car and Limo drivers are very much a trade though, and many cities require specialized licenses to perform the work.

    Ignoring those regulatory bodies is a large part of how Uber initially gained market share. They started without seeking any approval, just start the machine and go. When challenged they would find the least regulated classification of a car service and claim it best fit their business model. Then they would simply ignore local legislation meant to rein them in. By that point traditional livery was depressed enough that many actual certified drivers would be working for Uber to compensate, and people would appreciate the often admittedly superior service at cheap subsidized rates, gaining stakeholders to argue on Uber’s behalf.

    Straight up ignoring the law is very effective when you have weight to throw around.

    EncBlackDragon480Man in the MistsGnome-Interruptusdispatch.oMoridin889Lord_Asmodeus
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Even if they aren't telling them how to drive, they are telling their drivers what to charge for fare on a trip-by-trip basis. If they are truely independent contractors, the driver should be able to set their own fare.

    It goes further than that, as we have a term for when an entity or group of entities conspire to set pricing for a group of loosely affiliated entities.

    That term being, of course, price fixing.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Even if they aren't telling them how to drive, they are telling their drivers what to charge for fare on a trip-by-trip basis. If they are truely independent contractors, the driver should be able to set their own fare.

    It goes further than that, as we have a term for when an entity or group of entities conspire to set pricing for a group of loosely affiliated entities.

    That term being, of course, price fixing.

    "No no, you see as part of the contract, drivers who use Uber to connect with customers agree to our pricing model. Obviously they are still free to take passengers and deliveries and charge their own rates, they are not our employees; they just can't use our platform to do it."

    I mean, I expect the judge will laugh at the attorneys who come up with that argument, but I bet money they have that argument, or something similar, when someone points out they are admitting to heading a criminal conspiracy.

    Foefaller on
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