It's amazing how, after completing ShB's MSQ, returning to Eorzea feels quaint and nostalgic. In particular, I've been thinking about the ARR patch content era when I convinced my buddy to play. I was healthier (diabetes more under control and I hadn't yet been hospitalized because of a major kidney stone issue), and my buddy wasn't even married, let alone a father. It's kind of crazy how old MMO content feels almost like going home again.
Anyway, the devs missed a detail:
Urangier is still in the Waking Sands. I visited to see if there was any post-expansion dialogue like there is in the Rising Stones, and there he was in his old model glory giving out hard and ex primal fights and musing about Ala Mhigo. I guess they didn't have the time/inclination to add a new phase to that HQ where he's replaced by someone else.
I chuckled. The bastard lied to me again after explicitly promising not to! :P
He'll actually leave once you've completed all of his quests there if you're after the point in the story he's not supposed to be there anymore. He does the 'walk away as he fades into invisibility' animation right after you turn in the last one.
I've said it already: that I like Zenos as a villain, but the dude is an outright psychopath.
But I outright reject his ideals. I fight for vastly different reasons than he does.
I largely agree with you and one of the things that makes him work is that we aren't forced into a situation where we are supposed to go "oh you are evil but you had some really good reasons for it" which is a nice change of pace.
After taking a break from Stormblood main story to, mainly level up other jobs (i was also 67 when i needed to be 68), but also just play a bit less apart from the daily duties and beast tribe quests, back on it once more.
We assaulted and took over a village, or so i am told, none of it was shown.
Lyse is now the resistane leader, for reasons, i assume Conrad was suffering from concussion.
And our allies are surprised that Zeno fired on his own men, i am not sure why.
I'm kinda suspicious that the real life is now writing the plot in a way.
I can't remember the game making any real changes to the maps outside very minor things in dungeons (and Alexander), so i guess they have to keep us away from anything where they want to show such changes.
You didn't watch the cutscene - the firing of the cannon and aftermath killed Conrad - that's why Lyse is now in charge.
I watched the cutscene, i never skip cutscenes.
I just don't see Lyse as a leader, administrator or even inspirational speaker material.
After taking a break from Stormblood main story to, mainly level up other jobs (i was also 67 when i needed to be 68), but also just play a bit less apart from the daily duties and beast tribe quests, back on it once more.
We assaulted and took over a village, or so i am told, none of it was shown.
Lyse is now the resistane leader, for reasons, i assume Conrad was suffering from concussion.
And our allies are surprised that Zeno fired on his own men, i am not sure why.
I'm kinda suspicious that the real life is now writing the plot in a way.
I can't remember the game making any real changes to the maps outside very minor things in dungeons (and Alexander), so i guess they have to keep us away from anything where they want to show such changes.
Are you even enjoying the game story? Everytime you share thoughts, it's all negative comments and snark.
I don't understand what you mean by "real life is now writing the plot in a way."
I'm enjoying parts of it.
More than half even.
My main issues are basicly Zenos, and Magnai portions.
Plenty of issues in design, like the 67 primal, creator god of the half snake tribe, and i see not a single scale.
Real life being not showing the capture of the village i mentioned, or our character not taking part in the assault, because the game very, very rarely (almost never outside beast tribe quests) changes the actual map looks.
They can, but don't, maybe it's just too much of an effort to be worth it in the devs opinion.
Like, doors, instead of doors pening and us being able to ride through, they stay stuck closed and we are given an npc to interact with to get to the other side, or even just a glowy bit, but once we have a aetherites done we can just fly over.
Both the Kojin and the Namazu quests have been great, the plains were fun (except for Magnai and co), and i think my despair of just letting enemy officers jog away without even a token effort to stop them is quite reasonable, Kugane portion was also good, was the second Yanxia portion (Gyr Abania, has not been impressive for the most part, though i have still enjoyed parts of it).
Alisaies increased role has also been awesome.
And i have mentioned about how i enjoy the increased dialogue options w can pick, even if they don't really matter beyond roleplay inside our heads.
You get some pretty great dialog options in Shadowbringers. Really makes it feel more like you have a character with personality instead of just the blank slate hero you've been most of the time. Even if those options are pretty much entirely aesthetic and don't really change anything.
So far my favority dialogue option has been going "i'm going to kill your god if i have to, and probably even if i don't." to a quest giver before going to deal with a primal.
My personal headcanon is that, at this point, my character is basicly killing primals for kicks.
Earlier i had the option to explain how this rebellion was not my fight.
And it ain't, i'm not here to liberate you, i'm here to stab people.
you'd get along well with zenos!
Unlike Zenos, i am actually enjoying myself, i don't go around killing people while bored.
I probably would like Zenos more if he did not look so bored all the time.
Also the constant evil for evils sake cruelty.
I mean, i hoped for some examples on how the empire is evil when i started this expansion, and boy has it delivered. o.0
Perhaps that is why I did especially mind Zenos after the initial dumb bits. We are both stuck doing fights that present no real challenge and we get pestered into doing things we don't give a single shit about by people that think we should be all peppy about it despite it being mostly boring. Also he likes getting loot, I like getting loot, we are totally bros.
I think Zenos is meant to be a shadow archetype of the player character at some level.
But in my case it kinda misses its mark.
The whole "stamp on two different nations in hopes of someone coming to challenge him" thing he has going just does not resonate with me, and, as i said, i am actually enjoying myself (except when dealing with Zenos) for the most part.
If we were shown more resigned exasperation (like what we get from ourselves in the Namazu quests), then maybe it would have worked better for me.
Zenos fell kind of flat for me too, HE clearly thinks he's some sort of cool guy but I don't think the WoL is necessarily supposed to be buying into his extremely dumb dear-frenemy-I-live-for-the-thrill-of-a-challenging-fight-to-the-death schtick. He's just a very wooden, flat villain character.
+1
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Aymeric definitely do that. I also get a bit of that vibe from Alisaie.
I normally see Elezen as lanky and emaciated looking, like they're about two weeks overdue for their last meal. Aymeric is designed noticeably outside the normal mold of the Elezen which makes me think the devs very much intended to try to get the player to look at him as dreamyboi.
I've been trying to make my way though the post Stormblood MSQ stuff and I have to keep reminding myself that ShB cant be that far away. Queue me making the mistake of looking up how many more quests I have left to get through. 24 quests....oof
I actually enjoyed the 4.1 stuff but mid-way through 4.2 and I'm rapidly loosing interest.
I've been trying to make my way though the post Stormblood MSQ stuff and I have to keep reminding myself that ShB cant be that far away. Queue me making the mistake of looking up how many more quests I have left to get through. 24 quests....oof
I actually enjoyed the 4.1 stuff but mid-way through 4.2 and I'm rapidly loosing interest.
4.4 through 4.5 things pick back up too. It's really just 4.2 and 4.3 that fall kind of flat.
I've been trying to make my way though the post Stormblood MSQ stuff and I have to keep reminding myself that ShB cant be that far away. Queue me making the mistake of looking up how many more quests I have left to get through. 24 quests....oof
I actually enjoyed the 4.1 stuff but mid-way through 4.2 and I'm rapidly loosing interest.
4.4 through 4.5 things pick back up too. It's really just 4.2 and 4.3 that fall kind of flat.
I just did those quests last night. 4.4 is way more interesting. Stormblood was kind of hit-or-miss for me in terms of story, there was some stuff that knocked it out of the park right next to some ho-hum stuff.
And our allies are surprised that Zeno fired on his own men, i am not sure why.
Your allies haven't personally met Zenos like you have, they only know him by reputation. A reputation that includes being a good commander, not Jason Voorhees with magic. That reputation is largely because of propaganda and hearsay, remember that most people in Eorzea don't know what it's like in Garlean provinces at all.
I can't remember the game making any real changes to the maps outside very minor things in dungeons (and Alexander), so i guess they have to keep us away from anything where they want to show such changes.
Is this supposed to be a criticism of the game? Because that's a pretty common thing for MMO's to do. When a game dev actually wants to change the entire game map, outside of an instanced area, it usually results in an entire expansion. See: WoW Cataclysm. Otherwise yeah, the change happens off-screen. If you want to see persistent change over time in FFXIV, you have to help build one of the player towns in up to date content. Like Mor Dhona, or Idylshire.
I just don't see Lyse as a leader, administrator or even inspirational speaker material.
I just don't buy the plot development here.
You didn't see that Lyse was being set up for this the entire expansion? Nearly every scene with Lyse in Stormblood up to that point is setting up her motivation, showing her resolve, and explaining her capability. It kinda makes me doubt you're really paying attention.
Plenty of issues in design, like the 67 primal, creator god of the half snake tribe, and i see not a single scale.
There aren't any scales on Ifrit either, but the Amalj'aa have more scales than the Ananta. Titan has 0 fur. Ramuh has no plant-matter worked into his design.
Bismarck and the Vanuvanu share no physical resemblance at all. None of the Warring Triad look like the people who summoned them, as per the lore (not that we see them).
Primals don't necessarily resemble the people who worship them.
i think my despair of just letting enemy officers jog away without even a token effort to stop them is quite reasonable
This is such an ingrained trope I don't agree that it's reasonable to be upset at. It's like going to see a romantic comedy movie and despairing at how the leading couple nearly breaks up over a simple misunderstanding before getting back together. Or like complaining about a TV series ending episodes on a cliffhanger as a blatant attempt to get you to watch the next episode. It's part and parcel of the genre, and while things COULD work without it, it's really strange to expect it not to.
To be clear, I'm not saying you have to like every trope of a genre. But your complaint reads like the game is weird for doing it when it's just about industry standard for video games.
Both Idyllshire and Mor Dhona changed significantly over the course of the expansions. A small area of the Azim Steppe and Churning Mists change in response to the local questlines too.
Yeah I thought I had gone crazy when I came back to the game a few months ago because I played during ARR and remembered Revenant's Toll being several tents and a shop counter back in 2013, and is a legit town now.
Both Idyllshire and Mor Dhona changed significantly over the course of the expansions. A small area of the Azim Steppe and Churning Mists change in response to the local questlines too.
There's also the Doman Enclave which you quite literally help rebuild. I imagine the restoration of Ishgard will evolve that city a bit too.
I normally see Elezen as lanky and emaciated looking, like they're about two weeks overdue for their last meal. Aymeric is designed noticeably outside the normal mold of the Elezen which makes me think the devs very much intended to try to get the player to look at him as dreamyboi.
Aymeric has the exact same Elezen model as other Elezen.
I've heard it explained as Heavensward being a traditional adventure story, sure there is the larger context of millenia old war, social injustices and whatnot.
But ultimately, it is a story about a group of diverse people, not always friends, sometimes actual enemies, going on an adventure to solve a problem.
Stormblood attempts at a larger story, more political, less focused on the player character.
And while some of it works, some if it does not. The game has issues in depicting scale, they are not unreasonable ones, but i can't help but think that Heavensward had the big set pieces feel bigger even if the story was smaller in scope.
The liberation of Doma is especially bad at this. It was too quick, too easy. Doma itself feels very small.
But it also does things very well.
Kojin are interesting, beast tribe quests are great, i liked the tribes in the plains (with couple exceptions) and found them interesting.
Kugane portion of the story was also great, and i liked Hancock even if i swear i have seen him before in other media (it's just one of those character designs and archetypes).
Dungeon boss design is also excellent, with mechanics that engage the player but are not too difficult for those without the best possible gear (the trash mobs might be bit overtuned, but nothing that people with decent gear can't handle, and pulling one group at a time is quite manageable even less well geared groups).
But all in all, Stormblood story is not bad.
It stumbles in lot of places, and could be told better, but the main problem it has is the quality is generally so high, that the dips are all the more noticeable for it.
edit-
all this with the caveat that i have not hit level 70 yet, i have all the level 70 stormblood stuff to see before final judgement.
Nyysjan on
+4
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited July 2019
I made it up to the level 30ish MSQ series that ends in the haunted mansion and it was actually pretty good! It even had some decent mission objectives, though most of it was still just running back and forth occasionally clicking on a thing.
Luckily the dialogue writing is consistently good, so the foundation holds together even when the stuff you're doing is dull as nuts.
Though I did just realize that Minfilia is wearing a skirt with a see-through ass panel and... that's going to stick with me.
Got the Stormblood credits last night. The last patch or two of Stormblood quests were EXCELLENT, but that's most likely because they were setting up the Shadowbringers story.
I've heard it explained as Heavensward being a traditional adventure story, sure there is the larger context of millenia old war, social injustices and whatnot.
But ultimately, it is a story about a group of diverse people, not always friends, sometimes actual enemies, going on an adventure to solve a problem.
Stormblood attempts at a larger story, more political, less focused on the player character.
And while some of it works, some if it does not. The game has issues in depicting scale, they are not unreasonable ones, but i can't help but think that Heavensward had the big set pieces feel bigger even if the story was smaller in scope.
The liberation of Doma is especially bad at this. It was too quick, too easy. Doma itself feels very small.
But it also does things very well.
Kojin are interesting, beast tribe quests are great, i liked the tribes in the plains (with couple exceptions) and found them interesting.
Kugane portion of the story was also great, and i liked Hancock even if i swear i have seen him before in other media (it's just one of those character designs and archetypes).
Dungeon boss design is also excellent, with mechanics that engage the player but are not too difficult for those without the best possible gear (the trash mobs might be bit overtuned, but nothing that people with decent gear can't handle, and pulling one group at a time is quite manageable even less well geared groups).
But all in all, Stormblood story is not bad.
It stumbles in lot of places, and could be told better, but the main problem it has is the quality is generally so high, that the dips are all the more noticeable for it.
edit-
all this with the caveat that i have not hit level 70 yet, i have all the level 70 stormblood stuff to see before final judgement.
Yeah, StB's pacing/direction is a bit weird. The liberation of Ala Mhigo had been in the cards since early on in ARR, especially if you picked a job that started there. The strain of the refugees living just outside the city on the Sultana and her precarious political position was a pretty big plot point, culminating in the shocking events at the end of ARR's patch content. Doma was introduced during said patch content, but felt more or less like an addon - the Empire did it to them (and presumably others), too.
StB flips the script. For the bulk of the expansion the focus is on Doma/Hien (finding him, using his cachet to help gain allies and rally the people, etc.). Yet, Doma is really only a single zone - Yanxia - and smaller instance - the Enclave, which is around the corner to the southwest of Doma Castle. Neither the Ruby Sea nor Azim Steppe are Doma. To me, it felt like the focus was misplaced. That so much time was spent outside of Ala Mhigo that the end of the expansion felt rushed. Indeed, the Doma Castle dungeon is at level 67, and all but the last two dungeons are about things largely tangential to the liberation of Ala Mhigo. Ala Mhigo mostly feels like an afterthought, and then it's suddenly liberated and it's presented like this huge deal even though we were hardly there.
For me, it was incredibly underwhelming. Thankfully, Shadowbringers more than makes up for it. Outside of a single 'meh' NPC
Ran'jit suffers from the same problem as Zenos - he's inexplicably strong until the plot demands he isn't
Everything about the expansion is so much better than StB. I was burned out twice during StB because it was so plodding and underwhelming, to the point where I suspended my subscription for a year when I was around level 69-70. Almost did the same during the early patch content. Now? I'm more excited about the game than ever before, and can't wait to see what the patch content holds. ShB manages to tell a story that's both big/epic in terms of what we learn and the ramifications of that knowledge, but also intensely personal. It also has the best Final Fantasy villain this side of Ardyn. Like I said a few posts earlier, to me it makes what came before quaint by comparison.
I'm currently stuck in Post-ARR, Pre-heavensward purgatory.
The story is fine I guess, but there's just a massive amount of filler quests, and I feel like I'm not really even playing the game anymore. I'm just spending 1-2 hours in a row teleporting from point to point and watching cutscenes, and then I get to queue for a dungeon/trial that's finished in about 5-10 minutes, then it's another hour or two of cut scenes/dialogue.
I'm currently stuck in Post-ARR, Pre-heavensward purgatory.
The story is fine I guess, but there's just a massive amount of filler quests, and I feel like I'm not really even playing the game anymore. I'm just spending 1-2 hours in a row teleporting from point to point and watching cutscenes, and then I get to queue for a dungeon/trial that's finished in about 5-10 minutes, then it's another hour or two of cut scenes/dialogue.
Welcome to the new player hazing. We've all done it, we all know. It gets better.
I'm currently stuck in Post-ARR, Pre-heavensward purgatory.
The story is fine I guess, but there's just a massive amount of filler quests, and I feel like I'm not really even playing the game anymore. I'm just spending 1-2 hours in a row teleporting from point to point and watching cutscenes, and then I get to queue for a dungeon/trial that's finished in about 5-10 minutes, then it's another hour or two of cut scenes/dialogue.
To add to the fun, some of those dungeons have important story-related cut scenes! And my party skips them and begins combat so I have to alt-tab out and youtube the scene afterwards so I can see them. Thanks for putting long video scenes in group content!
That being said I am enjoying it, though I dearly wish my LNC had some AOE
Posts
I largely agree with you and one of the things that makes him work is that we aren't forced into a situation where we are supposed to go "oh you are evil but you had some really good reasons for it" which is a nice change of pace.
Zenos fell kind of flat for me too, HE clearly thinks he's some sort of cool guy but I don't think the WoL is necessarily supposed to be buying into his extremely dumb dear-frenemy-I-live-for-the-thrill-of-a-challenging-fight-to-the-death schtick. He's just a very wooden, flat villain character.
I actually enjoyed the 4.1 stuff but mid-way through 4.2 and I'm rapidly loosing interest.
4.4 through 4.5 things pick back up too. It's really just 4.2 and 4.3 that fall kind of flat.
I just did those quests last night. 4.4 is way more interesting. Stormblood was kind of hit-or-miss for me in terms of story, there was some stuff that knocked it out of the park right next to some ho-hum stuff.
Is this supposed to be a criticism of the game? Because that's a pretty common thing for MMO's to do. When a game dev actually wants to change the entire game map, outside of an instanced area, it usually results in an entire expansion. See: WoW Cataclysm. Otherwise yeah, the change happens off-screen. If you want to see persistent change over time in FFXIV, you have to help build one of the player towns in up to date content. Like Mor Dhona, or Idylshire.
There aren't any scales on Ifrit either, but the Amalj'aa have more scales than the Ananta. Titan has 0 fur. Ramuh has no plant-matter worked into his design.
This is such an ingrained trope I don't agree that it's reasonable to be upset at. It's like going to see a romantic comedy movie and despairing at how the leading couple nearly breaks up over a simple misunderstanding before getting back together. Or like complaining about a TV series ending episodes on a cliffhanger as a blatant attempt to get you to watch the next episode. It's part and parcel of the genre, and while things COULD work without it, it's really strange to expect it not to.
To be clear, I'm not saying you have to like every trope of a genre. But your complaint reads like the game is weird for doing it when it's just about industry standard for video games.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
There's also the Doman Enclave which you quite literally help rebuild. I imagine the restoration of Ishgard will evolve that city a bit too.
Bad time to be trying to craft a few hundred collectibles.
Aymeric has the exact same Elezen model as other Elezen.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Oh...this was a bad time to try and run some instances...
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
It’s a nice touch, although it would been nice
WoW
Dear Satan.....
If I've learned anything from FF7 and now 14, it's that
I hope it keeps it up
But ultimately, it is a story about a group of diverse people, not always friends, sometimes actual enemies, going on an adventure to solve a problem.
Stormblood attempts at a larger story, more political, less focused on the player character.
And while some of it works, some if it does not. The game has issues in depicting scale, they are not unreasonable ones, but i can't help but think that Heavensward had the big set pieces feel bigger even if the story was smaller in scope.
Kojin are interesting, beast tribe quests are great, i liked the tribes in the plains (with couple exceptions) and found them interesting.
Kugane portion of the story was also great, and i liked Hancock even if i swear i have seen him before in other media (it's just one of those character designs and archetypes).
Dungeon boss design is also excellent, with mechanics that engage the player but are not too difficult for those without the best possible gear (the trash mobs might be bit overtuned, but nothing that people with decent gear can't handle, and pulling one group at a time is quite manageable even less well geared groups).
But all in all, Stormblood story is not bad.
It stumbles in lot of places, and could be told better, but the main problem it has is the quality is generally so high, that the dips are all the more noticeable for it.
edit-
all this with the caveat that i have not hit level 70 yet, i have all the level 70 stormblood stuff to see before final judgement.
Luckily the dialogue writing is consistently good, so the foundation holds together even when the stuff you're doing is dull as nuts.
Though I did just realize that Minfilia is wearing a skirt with a see-through ass panel and... that's going to stick with me.
It's called a waist cape, and she is wearing it over pants, so whatever.
I mean, there is a lot to criticize about that outfit, but 'skirt with a see through ass panel' is not exactly true.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I loved the 60-70 WAR quests, though they are extremely divisive among the community.
Rak'tika is my favorite zone so far.
Shadowbringers, hooo!
She's wearing a waist cape, over a subligar, over yoga pants.
... I didn't know you could stack armor like that. What is that, 3 layers of leg armor? How many Materia can she meld to it all? 6? 15?
breathes in deeply
LA HEE
Look I'll be honest. The first time I heard the song it was pretty awesome but!
And overworld themes spoilers I guess:
Yeah, StB's pacing/direction is a bit weird. The liberation of Ala Mhigo had been in the cards since early on in ARR, especially if you picked a job that started there. The strain of the refugees living just outside the city on the Sultana and her precarious political position was a pretty big plot point, culminating in the shocking events at the end of ARR's patch content. Doma was introduced during said patch content, but felt more or less like an addon - the Empire did it to them (and presumably others), too.
StB flips the script. For the bulk of the expansion the focus is on Doma/Hien (finding him, using his cachet to help gain allies and rally the people, etc.). Yet, Doma is really only a single zone - Yanxia - and smaller instance - the Enclave, which is around the corner to the southwest of Doma Castle. Neither the Ruby Sea nor Azim Steppe are Doma. To me, it felt like the focus was misplaced. That so much time was spent outside of Ala Mhigo that the end of the expansion felt rushed. Indeed, the Doma Castle dungeon is at level 67, and all but the last two dungeons are about things largely tangential to the liberation of Ala Mhigo. Ala Mhigo mostly feels like an afterthought, and then it's suddenly liberated and it's presented like this huge deal even though we were hardly there.
For me, it was incredibly underwhelming. Thankfully, Shadowbringers more than makes up for it. Outside of a single 'meh' NPC
Everything about the expansion is so much better than StB. I was burned out twice during StB because it was so plodding and underwhelming, to the point where I suspended my subscription for a year when I was around level 69-70. Almost did the same during the early patch content. Now? I'm more excited about the game than ever before, and can't wait to see what the patch content holds. ShB manages to tell a story that's both big/epic in terms of what we learn and the ramifications of that knowledge, but also intensely personal. It also has the best Final Fantasy villain this side of Ardyn. Like I said a few posts earlier, to me it makes what came before quaint by comparison.
And the scene is done purely to throw shade on Alphinaud.
The story is fine I guess, but there's just a massive amount of filler quests, and I feel like I'm not really even playing the game anymore. I'm just spending 1-2 hours in a row teleporting from point to point and watching cutscenes, and then I get to queue for a dungeon/trial that's finished in about 5-10 minutes, then it's another hour or two of cut scenes/dialogue.
Welcome to the new player hazing. We've all done it, we all know. It gets better.
To add to the fun, some of those dungeons have important story-related cut scenes! And my party skips them and begins combat so I have to alt-tab out and youtube the scene afterwards so I can see them. Thanks for putting long video scenes in group content!
That being said I am enjoying it, though I dearly wish my LNC had some AOE