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Final Fantasy 14! Shadowbringers! The best expansion to an MMO ever!

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Posts

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    yeah augmented poetics weapons are better than vendor weapons for most of their expansion's level range

    BahamutZERO.gif
    Nightslyr
  • destroyah87destroyah87 Registered User regular
    yeah augmented poetics weapons are better than vendor weapons for most of their expansion's level range

    *6 to *8 is when vendor weapons would outstrip augmented poetics weapons though.

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    lionheart_mSkeith
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    yeah augmented poetics weapons are better than vendor weapons for most of their expansion's level range

    *6 to *8 is when vendor weapons would outstrip augmented poetics weapons though.
    Would they outstrip them to a significant degree?
    Levelling content is rarely that tightly tuned, main issues come from people rushing to pull huge numbers of trash, and just taking them one group at a time is easy.
    I will upgrade my weapons just for that tiny edge if i have not found a green weapon by *6 (assuming i'm not just farming deep dungeons).
    But i don't really see it as a big issue if people just decide to power through those last 2 to 4 levels to tomestone gear.

  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    I feel/think that from *5-*8 you start noticing things dying a lot slower and by *9 it's real bad during regular questing.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
    Nightslyrdestroyah87
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Assuming you're in full Augmented you're technically overgeared for the *1 and *3 dungeon, so that makes sense.

    destroyah87Nightslyr
  • destroyah87destroyah87 Registered User regular
    I feel/think that from *5-*8 you start noticing things dying a lot slower and by *9 it's real bad during regular questing.

    Yeah, using Stormblood for a benchmark, the lvl 75 dungeon weapons are a straight, if minor, upgrade across the board. 77-78 and up is gonna be a case of just buy the vendor gear, it's an upgrade.

    For older content, leveling alts likely, and only checking Stormblood (aka going in with lvl 60 Shire gear), I'm seeing the same breakdown. Dungeon gear is a minor upgrade at 65 and a straight across the board upgrade at 67 and thereafter.

    You're talking about a decent amount of mainstat at *7 dungeon gear and every point makes a difference. I also only looked at weapons. left-side armor is going to be just as important because of the defense value, especially for tanks.

    As for tuning of leveling group content, pulling two packs of trash at a time is the ideal; so gear should be acquired with an eye to doing that.

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  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Well, sidequests done, except one (Prankster's Paradise) that i am not doing, for reasons i am not going to go now, will probably talk about it more once i have done the trolley bit and want to talk about that so i can combine posts.

    Will start on fixing the Talos tomorrows.

  • R-demR-dem Registered User regular
    Or you could just be horrendously overleveled, and be a 69 GNB just about to go into Anti-Tower.

    I may at some point get to upgrade my gear.

    Someday.

    lionheart_m
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Yeah...this happened to me. When you barely move the MSQ forward but do your daily roulettes every day as a tank? I hit 67 by the time I fought Titania.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
    chrono_traveller
  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    Yeah...this happened to me. When you barely move the MSQ forward but do your daily roulettes every day as a tank? I hit 67 by the time I fought Titania.

    I've been running (almost daily) the roulettes as a tank, since my friend and I haven't been able to arrange much time to work through the story in Shadowbringers. I'm currently 78 and haven't even gotten to the first dungeon in Shadowbringers yet. :biggrin:

    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

    George R. R. Martin is not your bitch. ~ Neil Gaiman
    lionheart_m
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    I'm merely 68 doing 66 quests.
    It's great how you don't need to grind to keep up your levels.
    But having so many quests auto balance to your level can be a bit of a pain when you are several levels behind in your gear because you outlevel content.
    I'd probably be 80 if i did not change jobs for roulettes and side quests.

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Yeah...this happened to me. When you barely move the MSQ forward but do your daily roulettes every day as a tank? I hit 67 by the time I fought Titania.

    This is what leveling alt classes is for!

    destroyah87
  • R-demR-dem Registered User regular
    Maybe they should make alt classes be as fun as GNB then!

    ;-)

    lionheart_m
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    R-dem wrote: »
    Maybe they should make alt classes be as fun as GNB then!

    ;-)

    Your mistake was picking a fun class as your main.

    McMoogleDonnictonNightslyrSkeithlionheart_mStabbity Style
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I’m glad they changed up Machinist so much, because I leveled it up the old, bad way just in time to get to play it the new way and fully realize how much it’s been improved

    BahamutZEROKreutzLucascraftNightslyrBucketmanMan in the Mists
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    So, a trolley...
    I suspect i am going to surprise everyone here.
    But i liked this section of the story.
    It might have been poorly placed coming right after the sin eater invasion, but there was nothing fundamentally wrong with it.
    I could see it slapped in pretty much any final fantasy game i have played with only some fiddling (if even that) to make it setting compliant and notice no major loss of quality.

    Sidequests were, with one or two exceptions (possibly more on that later), good as well.
    Saving the mords was especially nice, showing that running away is not always a bad thing even if your friends are in trouble.

    We also had some nice character development for all the companions travelling with us.
    I think we probably could have realisticly skipped the whole process just by examining the lock mechanism (it looks like it reacts to the aether of the Talos, i doubt it would be difficult to fake, or maybe it would be, i guess we'll never know).
    But then...
    We meet Ran'jit again. Not a huge surprise i guess, nobody expected the hole would keep him long.
    But i did not expect to meet him here.
    The kick was ridiculous, and might have been funny in a less serious situation, and if i did not dislike Ran'jit so much, both as a character and as a plot device.
    The fight was terrible (better than similar ones in Stormblood, but still terrible), just make a cutscene, or skip it entirely.
    I did like the aftermath with Thancred though, got real FFVIII nostalgia going on there.
    And i liked Minfilia's determination.
    All in all, i'd say this was pretty well done.

    But i have to be me, so here's some angry ranting about
    Ran'jit, Eulmore and Vauthry.
    Enjoy...
    Ran'jit: You would have her suffer and die. I would spare her that fate!
    Instead i would poison completely unrelated children.
    And feed people to sin eaters.
    Force people to serve an evil tyrant.
    Attack and conquer other nations without provocation.
    And so on and so forth...
    I think the game is wanting me to see Ran'jit as a tragic figure. To feel sympathy for him.
    And to be fair, his backstory is somewhat tragic, and kinda sympathetic. They were intentionally constructed to be so.
    He also used chemical weapons on a village containing children, serves a monster who feeds people to sineaters and throws people into their deaths for no crime other than a failure to sufficiently please rich pampered hedonists.

    There are enough people asking us to feel sorry for, and be nicer to, monsters in real life. I don't need, want, and i don't think we should have, more of that in our games, unless the game really wants to commit to exploring this issue, and so far this game has not.

    As for Eulmore and Vauthry, Exarch earlier revealed that Vauthry has somekind of vaguely defined mind control powers.
    Alphinaud then posited that these would explain what we saw in Eulmore.
    When this happened, i was, upset, to put it mildly.
    You don't need mind control to explain Eulmore. The simply ability to control sin eaters, and the stability that can provide, is everything you need to explain Eulmore. Introducing mind control to keep the masses happy is not only unnecessary, but also feels like excusing those who support monsters like Vauthry.

    So where are we?
    We are working with a imperialist fascist, whose mainly works with us because suddenly its the wrong people being tyrants (aka: not his).
    Game is offering is a "sympathetic" figure as an opponent, who just had a village poisoned for standing in his way.
    And a population serving a monster is getting potentially excused for their actions because of "mind control" (how this goes will remain to be seen, but i was kinda waiting to find out how Eulmore gets out of the pit writers had dug them).

    Yes, i am mostly liking the story, enjoying them, and i know this is an mmo/jrpg/thing, but these issues are not something i will let go of without some heavy criticism, and as they keep coming up, i will keep criticising them.

    And, because i decided to write about it, the one quest i did not do, and why.
    This is an mmo/jrpg. We are adventurers, we do quests. It's, at its core, the basic conceit from which almost everything else flows.
    But how quests are framed matters.
    There's a quest called Prankster's Paradice in Twine.
    It starts with you delivering a message to a merchant, who then tells me that i am to provide him a payment promised in the letter.
    I tell him i did not know anything about that, so he responds that is between me and my master.
    So quest tells me to go kill some monsters to acquire a special item (i assume you'd get it on first kill), instead i go to find to quest giver, who is not there.
    So i drop the quest.
    I do not know how this quest ends, i have not googled for spoilers, i have idea on what kind of progression it has or if it has follow ups that make it worth it.
    None of these things really matter to my point, or why i dropped the quest.

    WoL has self destructive behavioral patters.
    The way they put the needs of others, their friends, their allies, even complete strangers, is unhealthy.
    And the story is both aware of this, and constatly reinforces that behaviour.
    We know the story is aware of this, we had a whole questline in Heavensward with Dark Knight over it.
    And the story also encourages this by the admiration and compliments our character gets, as well as praise from our allies.

    If WoL was constantly cutting themselves, had an eating disorder, or acted abusively towards others, i doubt people would just let it go without a comment, but because we appear so helpfull, it gets ignored instead because it fits the preconceived idea of an mmo.
    How quests are framed matters.
    Doing a thing for payment, fine.
    Helping someone attacked by monsters, sure.
    Delivering a message while i am going that way, not a problem.
    Delivering a message, then being told to pay someone else debts, and then doing it without a question asked. That's not ok.
    Yes, i am aware that this is very Japanese trait for a hero. And very much a thing in both mmo's and jrpg's.
    It's still unhealthy.
    There was another quest in Il Mheg, about a pixie who wanted to be popular, and became so by helping others.
    And who commented that we must also be popular.
    I did not really give it much of a thought back then, but yes, we are popular, because we are basicly free labor for anyone who takes the time to ask.

    Being helpfull, even to strangers, is not a bad thing, but the lengths WoL goes is unhealthy.
    I had hoped that after Dark Knight quests the game would, refocus a bit, but now it's second expansion after that and nothing has changed.
    Hell, the wine quest in Stormblood was possibly the worst quest in the damn game on this regard (and actively insulting to boot).

    to a lesser extent there was another sidequest.
    Old miner mistakes you for a miner and gives you orders, you obey.
    similar thing happened in Lakeland, a random soldier shouted you some orders, and then you went and obeyed.
    Because ofcourse you did. And there was even some mockery from npc's for that.
    In both cases the quest giver apologised afterwards, but it is still a part of a pattern.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I really can't wait for them to release the New Game + mode. I want to replay Heavensward so badly. Given the fact that HW is 4+ years old at this point, there's a lot of it I don't remember. I remember the big stuff. And I know at the time I said it was my favorite Final Fantasy story ever. I need to replay it to see how it stacks up to Shadowbringers, while Shadowbringers is still fresh on my mind.

    Oh yeah. I finally beat Shadowbringers last night.

    A+. Would play again. Would recommend to a friend.

    Emet-Selch is the greatest Final Fantasy villain there is.

    lionheart_mNightslyrBucketman
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    @Lucascraft I know right? That final area is so so good. I don't know how they plan to top this.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited September 11
    It's also amusing to me how much I liked Emet-Selch, considering he is an awfully lot like Ardyn in FFXV.

    And I very strongly hated FFXV.

    Some spoilery villain analysis. And Shadowbringers ending spoilers too. Spoilers for both XIV and XV.
    Both Emet-Selch and Ardyn are setup as these ancient beings. Both of them have an omnipresence in the story. You don't really know how they fit into the big picture until the very end. Both of them show up to taunt the main party, or mislead them, or check in on them. There's a whole lot of similarity in how they handled both villains.

    And yet I thought they completely botched Ardyn in XV and in fact I thought they botched that entire game.

    And yet, with Emet-Selch it is pure triumph. Those final moments, where he's standing there with a hole clean through him and he is fading away to nothingness, and his final words are "remember us." I was literally stunned at the end. Such a powerful moment. The writing and delivery at the end of Shadowbringers. Wow. It is so incredibly potent. It was seriously like a punch to the gut.

    Yes, this guy is super evil. Yes, this guy committed atrocities untold. Yes, this guy was trying to bring about not just the end of one world, but all worlds. But he did all those things out of a twisted desire to restore his friends and family and those who were lost from his world. And in the end, when his plan unravels, and he realizes that his lost friends and family are gone forever, he ends with "remember us."

    My god.

    Lucascraft on
    Bucketman
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Oh I wouldn't say it was that twisted. His means to get there tho....

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Right, done with Amh Araeng, back to Crystarium.
    Meeting between Minfilia and Minfilia was, not great, not bad, but also not great.
    The scene is very earnest and serious, but i don't think the dialogue can really carry it.
    Also not sure what is going on with Minfilias design.

    When Minfilia said she would follow me, i knew something was going to go horribly wrong.
    Then it didn't, surprise.

    The scene after was good, nice to see Thancred and Minfilia get on the same page finally.
    The funny bit between Thancred and Urianger was, well, funny.
    And i like Ryne's name.

    The dungeon, nothing much to say.
    Things are starting to come ahead. WoL is visible shaken when absorbing the lightwardens power.
    And Ryne can see it happening as well.
    Going to be interesting to see where this goes next with the Exarch, and how Kholusia will go afterwards.

  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Gameplay concerns. I'm again a bit concerned about the longevity of the game. Right now I'm still hooked because I love leveling all these jobs I hadn't touched (Black Mage and White Mage) but I still think there's a huge gap in the endgame. I mean, outside of Savage Raids, there's just not a lot of places to use our shiny max level job right now. Which is probably why I didn't mind Eureka that much cuz at least it was something different outside running a max level dungeon.

    At least this set of endgame dungeons are much better than ARC+Fractal+Neverreap and Kugane+Temple of the Fist. Man those dungeons were just not fun. This is probably nostalgia speaking but HWs postgame dungeons felt so much better than StBs. Saint Mocianne's, The Antitower, Amdapor Hard, Gubal (Hard) were top notch.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
  • KyanilisKyanilis Registered User regular
    Gameplay concerns. I'm again a bit concerned about the longevity of the game. Right now I'm still hooked because I love leveling all these jobs I hadn't touched (Black Mage and White Mage) but I still think there's a huge gap in the endgame. I mean, outside of Savage Raids, there's just not a lot of places to use our shiny max level job right now. Which is probably why I didn't mind Eureka that much cuz at least it was something different outside running a max level dungeon.

    At least this set of endgame dungeons are much better than ARC+Fractal+Neverreap and Kugane+Temple of the Fist. Man those dungeons were just not fun. This is probably nostalgia speaking but HWs postgame dungeons felt so much better than StBs. Saint Mocianne's, The Antitower, Amdapor Hard, Gubal (Hard) were top notch.

    Yeah, I mean, the game is consistent to a fault. There's not a lot to be done if you've already cleared the Savage raids (but there usually isn't) but as usual they'll add other activities through the xpac. We also know that the first Ultimate will come in 5.1 and they'll now be a staple moving forward for people looking for more hardcore endgame. I'm curious to see what the relic stuff will be this time around, in interviews it sounds like they want to keep some ideas from Eureka but we'll see if that shows up here or elsewhere.

    Personally, I like that towards the end of a raid tier I can take a breather and not need to login all the time so I can mess with other games, etc. But I do absolutely wish the raid tiers were just slightly longer.

  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    Gameplay concerns. I'm again a bit concerned about the longevity of the game. Right now I'm still hooked because I love leveling all these jobs I hadn't touched (Black Mage and White Mage) but I still think there's a huge gap in the endgame. I mean, outside of Savage Raids, there's just not a lot of places to use our shiny max level job right now. Which is probably why I didn't mind Eureka that much cuz at least it was something different outside running a max level dungeon.

    At least this set of endgame dungeons are much better than ARC+Fractal+Neverreap and Kugane+Temple of the Fist. Man those dungeons were just not fun. This is probably nostalgia speaking but HWs postgame dungeons felt so much better than StBs. Saint Mocianne's, The Antitower, Amdapor Hard, Gubal (Hard) were top notch.

    The game is very much designed to be something with an endpoint to the base expansion material followed by episodic content. They add some grinds in like the Relic Weapons/Eureka and a variety of other side content for those who really want to keep playing all the time, but it isn't a game designed to absorb every waking moment like WoW or Everquest. They want you to be able to put the game down and play other games/do other stuff without feeling like you are falling behind.

    destroyah87SkeithNightslyrThatDudeOverThereMan in the Mists
  • TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    Gameplay concerns. I'm again a bit concerned about the longevity of the game. Right now I'm still hooked because I love leveling all these jobs I hadn't touched (Black Mage and White Mage) but I still think there's a huge gap in the endgame. I mean, outside of Savage Raids, there's just not a lot of places to use our shiny max level job right now. Which is probably why I didn't mind Eureka that much cuz at least it was something different outside running a max level dungeon.

    At least this set of endgame dungeons are much better than ARC+Fractal+Neverreap and Kugane+Temple of the Fist. Man those dungeons were just not fun. This is probably nostalgia speaking but HWs postgame dungeons felt so much better than StBs. Saint Mocianne's, The Antitower, Amdapor Hard, Gubal (Hard) were top notch.

    The game is very much designed to be something with an endpoint to the base expansion material followed by episodic content. They add some grinds in like the Relic Weapons/Eureka and a variety of other side content for those who really want to keep playing all the time, but it isn't a game designed to absorb every waking moment like WoW or Everquest. They want you to be able to put the game down and play other games/do other stuff without feeling like you are falling behind.

    Yoshi-P has said as much. He has no interest in designing the game to be something you play every day. He's perfectly content to have you come by for a month or two, then leave and come back a month or two later.

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    SkeithStabbity StyleNightslyrBucketmanMan in the Mists
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    yeah, I just wish there was something to fill that gap before the next patch. Well, I can't complain exactly. I'm still finding a lot of fun just clearing Eden, doing my Expert run and leveling up other classes. I just wish I could use my GNB in other content right now. Might as well enjoy the ride.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    I’m glad they changed up Machinist so much, because I leveled it up the old, bad way just in time to get to play it the new way and fully realize how much it’s been improved

    The changes have made me love the game again. I was getting really burnt out. It was mostly my fault for always maining a melee class for whatever reason (PLD in ARR -> DRK in HW -> SAM in StB -> DRK again for ShB's MSQ). I had gotten Machinist up to 50 towards the end of HW. And while I really liked (and still do) the aesthetics of the job, it was just 100% unfun to play. It was too inconsistent in terms of damage output, and too fiddly with oCDs and a bunch of really situational things (the various Graze weaponskills and whatnot).

    Now? It's awesome. It's really well designed, and while the two different systems - heat and battery - don't really interact with each other, they still make sense and fit into various windows really well. It just feels really satisfying, with always just enough to do with the off-tempo abilities like Drill and Hot Shot/Air Anchor. Combat is actually fun for me now. Outside of wanting a slight potency boost, I can't think of anything I want fixed or changed.

    PSN/XBL/Nintendo/Origin/Steam: Nightslyr 3DS: 1607-1682-2948
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  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    yeah, I just wish there was something to fill that gap before the next patch. Well, I can't complain exactly. I'm still finding a lot of fun just clearing Eden, doing my Expert run and leveling up other classes. I just wish I could use my GNB in other content right now. Might as well enjoy the ride.

    I know where you are coming from. I typically create goals for myself to keep busy/enjoying the game. Stuff I have on the go:

    1. Completing all ARR and HW relics
    2. Farming up the pegasus mount and minions from the Diadem
    3. Crafting up a fleet of submarines and airships for my personal FC (I had best submarine and airship parts, but then they added upgraded Submarine parts so I need to get on that.)
    4. Completing the Palace of the Dead and Heaven on High dungeons to the top floor (I still need to do HoH 3 more times to get the achievement).
    5. Mount farming from new EX and old EX/Savage.

    I still need to go back in and do some more Feasts/PVP for the other achievements and hopefully some tokens to get the gear from the PVP seasons.
    I also need to see about Chocobo Breeding and Racing. I dipped my toes in things a while ago and it was fairly fun, but I've put it off in favour of making room in my inventory (omni-crafter leveling is a killer on bag space).


    The advantage of these things is that they are the types of things I can mostly pick up and put down whenever I want to work on them. Doing the story and gearing up/leveling up all the classes is the main fun bit, but there's enough pieces of other stuff that I can still put in some time and see some progress in non-character power ways.

    lionheart_mArcanisTheImpotent
  • ThatDudeOverThereThatDudeOverThere Clock King Registered User regular
    leveling alt jobs is a good way to fill time, see more stories

    maybe try some gathering and crafting

    Man in the Mists
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    edited September 12
    IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!
    Ofcourse we are being paid in nuts.
    Our leader is a moogle.
    edit-
    I like Xylle.

    Nyysjan on
    BahamutZERO
  • DonnictonDonnicton Hey it's me, your old pal Movie Sonic - let me in. LEMME IN. Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!
    Ofcourse we are being paid in nuts.
    Our leader is a moogle.
    edit-
    I like Xylle.
    dgmt5Eu.jpg

    McMooglelionheart_mNyysjanThatDudeOverThereSkeithMan in the MistsBucketman
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    The tale of Maywus and Tolas.
    A humble Woodcutter and a brave knight.
    I'm not really sure what to think about this sidequest.
    On one hand, it is a very hopeful and optimistic tale.
    Knight who saw his men fall, regains his strength and resolve to protect his friend.

    But, a quick soak, some talk and a friend in danger, and suddenly man gets over his PTSD?
    I like it, i guess.
    Part of me just feels like i shouldn't.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I wish that for the sake of Shadowbringers they would have brought in the Ivalice Moogles. And of course put Montblanc in charge of Clan Nutsy.

  • ThatDudeOverThereThatDudeOverThere Clock King Registered User regular
    that clasping hands meme where the left arm says "shadowbringers hunt quests" and the right arm says "heavensward dark knight quests" and the hands say "murdering the shit out of moogles"

    NightslyrQanamilSkeithTransporterBucketman
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Now, i'm not Alphinauds biggest fan.
    But this (early level 77 Kholusia spoilers)
    comparison of him and vauthry feels way, way over the top.

    And if you areworried that Ryne might be recogniced, get her a new set of clothes.
    No, seriously, she has different color of hair, her eyes have changed, get her new clothes and maybe cut her hair.

    BahamutZEROBucketman
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Well, right after earlier post, but i don't want to combine these and i want to put my thoughts down while they are fresh, so...

    So we assaulted
    Eulmore.
    Meol is soilent green, kinda. I called this early on. Close enough anyway.
    Thought my prediction that people were being fed to sin eaters was kinda opposite of what is happening.

    Poor clowns, jongleurs, harlequins or whatever your job description was. You were woefully under utilized.

    Ran'jit is dead. Such a mediocre ending for such a mediocre character. He had promise, but it was never truly realised, in the end he waas nothing but a plot device and occasional exposition faucet to move the story where the writers wanted it with minimal effort.
    I still think i am supposed to view him as tragic, yet after our final discussion all i am feeling is "fucking moron".
    Was kinda expecting for him to hve heart attack and die of that mid combat after last fight with him.
    But i guess it was too much to hope that there was a proper explanation for his sudden lack of invincibility.

    Vauthry scene was great. He continues to be a horrible person, yet a decent villain.

    Thoughts on theme and message.
    When i first arrived to Eulmore, i loved it.
    It is such a wonderfully flawed place, terrible in a very human fashion.
    The storytelling potential of how to deal with such a society was enormous, the promise magnificent.
    Early encounters with Elmorean military in Lakeland, and Minfilia, only served to make it even more so.
    And in Rak'tika Greatwoon upped the stakes, by using chemical weapons on a village with children in it.

    Then the story brought up mind control.
    Largely, i find the mind control angle not only completely unnecessary, but also disgusting.
    You didn't need to explain Eulmore, it had been adequately explained when we first visited it.
    And trying to just erase responsibility like this is a horrible message.
    This is not some innocent crowd suddenly mind controlled to act as human shields, this is a population of a monstrous and unjust society being washed of responsibility of their complicity in it.

    I don't think the writers are intending the message i am reading in this. I also don't think it matters what they intended, they should have seen it there, and not had it.

    There is an over arching theme in this game, all through the expansions, about making peace, cooperation, forgiveness, that our enemies are people, not monsters.
    These are not bad themes to have.
    Yet i think the game goes way too far with them, past forgiveness, and simply removing guilt and responsibility.
    Requiring that any thoughts of revenge, or justice, be put aside in the interest of harmony.

    But what happens when the people you are fighting, are monsters?
    I don't think just slapping "they were mind controlled" over the whole thing is sufficient answer.

  • reVersereVerse Registered User regular
    edited September 13
    Ran'jit
    In the aftermath of the assault, one of the NPCs says that they couldn't find his body. So don't you worry, we'll likely get more Ran'jit before the patch cycle is done.

    Eulmore theme
    The game explicitly goes on to say that the people lived their debaucherous lifestyle of their own choosing, it was only when the assault happened that Vauthry exerted his control over the people. They're very much not excusing anything the Eulmorians did prior to the assault.

    reVerse on
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  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    Ran'jit
    In the aftermath of the assault, one of the NPCs says that they couldn't find his body. So don't you worry, we'll likely get more Ran'jit before the patch cycle is done.

    Eulmore theme
    The game explicitly goes on to say that the people lived their debaucherous lifestyle of their own choosing, it was only when the assault happened that Vauthry exerted his control over the people. They're very much not excusing anything the Eulmorians did prior to the assault.

    Ran'jit
    Lovely.
    Eulmore
    Alphinaud posited mind control as an "explanation" for the Eulmoreans loyalty the second we learned of the mind control after Greatwood.
    This might be Alphinaud just being naive, but that is not the feeling i am getting here.

    I'm going to wait until the story is finished for final opinion, but i have zero faith that the story will actually handle Eulmore and their actions with the seriousness i think it requires.

  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Eulmore
    Hmmm...I think like with HW, the fallout of Eulmore will happen much later. There is a LOT that is still unresolved by the time the MSQ ends regarding the state of the world and the remaining city states. Which from a storytelling pov is pretty good if you ask me.

    Mind Control
    I think you're giving too much importance to the mind control. I mean you do you, but Kai'Shirr and the Chais are just shitty flawed people. I could overlook Kai'Shirr but I hope they address Chai Nuzz later on.

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  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    edited September 13
    Eulmore
    Hmmm...I think like with HW, the fallout of Eulmore will happen much later. There is a LOT that is still unresolved by the time the MSQ ends regarding the state of the world and the remaining city states. Which from a storytelling pov is pretty good if you ask me.

    Mind Control
    I think you're giving too much importance to the mind control. I mean you do you, but Kai'Shirr and the Chais are just shitty flawed people. I could overlook Kai'Shirr but I hope they address Chai Nuzz later on.
    Eulmore
    Possible.
    I'd be surprised if there was not more about Eulmore in post MSQ updates.
    But i would also be surprised if it dealt with it properly.
    They used chemical weapons on a settlement with children.
    This is not "they were following orders" situation, this is "nurember trials and mass hangings" situation.
    I don't expect us hanging the soldiers responsible, or finding them, or even looking for them.
    But that should bring heavy consequences.
    Mind control
    Kai'shirr? What'd he do now? Sure he did rob some food early on, but i'd say he got hurt more than enough for it.
    My point was more about the invasion of Lakeland, invasion (failed) of Il Mheg, and what they did in the Greatwoods.
    The problem is that is is an out for the writers, it can just erase the whole "chemical weapons on children" thing, and i worry they will do just that.
    Or at best try to explain how most of the populace was ignorant and innocent of any major crimes.
    They just happened to like cheering at Vauthry torturing some poor stupid catboy.

    edit-
    Alphinauds Speech after
    assault on Eulmore
    Alphinaud: Let me handle this.
    Alphinaud: Citizens of Eulmore. What I'm about to tell you will come as a shock.
    Alphinaud: Indeed, you may be loath to believe it. But if you trust the evidence of your senses, it is my hope that you will listen and accept the truth, unpalatable though it may be.
    Alphinaud: Vauthry is a sin eater. Everything he offered, everything he promised, was a lie...
    Alisaie: They're not taking it well. And who could blame them?
    Dazed Citizen: Are you saying we were Vauthry's puppets all this time?
    Alphinaud: When you attacked us, you were not yourselves. That much is true.
    Alphinaud: But your conduct prior to that moment was your own. Vauthry's unnatural charisma does not absolve you of all responsibility.
    Alphinaud: Of your own free will, you came to this city and gave yourselves over to its pleasures.
    Alphinaud: And in the course of this, if you mistreated those less fortunate than you...then that too was of your own free will.
    Alphinaud: It is not for me to judge you, but for your victims. For history. For your conscience.
    Alphinaud: You have dreamed a twisted dream, but now you are awake.
    Alphinaud: You may yet share this world of ours. Join with us and each other that we might begin anew.
    Alphinaud: We've lost so many already. We dare not lose any more.
    Alphinaud: I have said my piece. My thanks for giving me the chance.
    Alphinaud: There is nothing more to be done here. Let us go after Vauthry.
    impressions
    It does not absolve them of all blame.
    But it does absolve them of some.
    Calling what they did "mistreated" is putting it rather mildly.
    And finally it suggests to start anew.
    Which i would associate with forgetting what has happened in the past.

    I might be wrong, translation could introduce tone changes, writers might not have intended what they wrote, Alphinaud might have been his usual annoyingly optimistic self and others will ignore him.

    Or it might be what was written and nothing comes to Eulmore.

    Nyysjan on
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