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The 2020 Democratic Primary

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Posts

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    The long term damage of a Biden presidency would be incalculable

    How much worse can it get?

    Tom Cotton

    How would a Biden presidency lead to Tom Cotton?

    4 years of getting little done, depressing left wing enthusiasm and likely not taking Congress seems like a pretty good recipe for disaster and some far more capable fascists have their eyes on the office after Trump leaves.

    ShortyKetBrajdarksunYamiB.Mr Ray
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    I thonk
    Brainleech wrote: »
    The long term damage of a Biden presidency would be incalculable

    How much worse can it get?

    Tom Cotton

    Can you elaborate? I vaguely know who Tom Cotton is but I don't get the connection between him and Biden.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I hope Harris is asked why she's proposing a debt forgiveness for a grant that doesn't require paying back in the first place. I'm guessing she doesn't actually care about the issue RE: student debt. She wants to sound like it, at least.

    Yesterday I announced that, as president, I’ll establish a student loan debt forgiveness program for Pell Grant recipients who start a business that operates for three years in disadvantaged communities.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    Bucketman
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    yeah in biden we could maybe squeak out a win in 2020

    then we have 4 years of a candidate who doesn't even really accept most of our problems as being problems. we get a do nothing presidency that tries to play ball again and only does the most basic, half-assed attempts to fix things, even further undermined confidence in the dems next go round

    if trump wins in 2020, maybe we get somebody good in 2024. if biden wins, we're definitely fucked next term.

    we do not have time for this shit

    Styrofoam SammichBrainleechIncenjucarMan in the Mistsdispatch.oVeagleBloodsheedToxShortyCalicaBucketmanZonugalYamiB.Sorce
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    Really I feel the only way to take Biden down is talk about he is the author of the Crime Bill

    But yes Biden is not who we need as Pres that era is over

    Thawmus
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    christ, the obama administration never even cleaned up all of bush's shit after eight years in office

    biden isn't gonna do shit

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  • LadaiLadai Registered User regular
    I look forward to Warren humiliating Bernie

    neither can really afford to alienate the other's current supporters.

    I doubt they'll go after each other much, if at all, tonight.

    4zyrt5.jpg
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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Richland, WARegistered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    The long term damage of a Biden presidency would be incalculable

    How much worse can it get?

    Tom Cotton

    How would a Biden presidency lead to Tom Cotton?

    4 years of getting little done, depressing left wing enthusiasm and likely not taking Congress seems like a pretty good recipe for disaster and some far more capable fascists have their eyes on the office after Trump leaves.

    I guess. To play devil's advocate, that also assumes that Warren or Sanders is a) able to get a Democratic Congress and Senate and b) is able to convince conservative Democrats to pass liberal legislation. I think Warren and Sanders have just as much chance of getting little done as Biden. And if anything, I think it'll end up with a worse outcome, because centerist Democrats would just point to liberals not being able to get anything done as more proof that the center-right is where the Democratic party should stay.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    The long term damage of a Biden presidency would be incalculable

    A Biden presidency is likely a huge waste of time that neither the US not the planet can afford.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    The long term damage of a Biden presidency would be incalculable

    How much worse can it get?

    Tom Cotton

    How would a Biden presidency lead to Tom Cotton?

    4 years of getting little done, depressing left wing enthusiasm and likely not taking Congress seems like a pretty good recipe for disaster and some far more capable fascists have their eyes on the office after Trump leaves.

    I guess. To play devil's advocate, that also assumes that Warren or Sanders is a) able to get a Democratic Congress and Senate and b) is able to convince conservative Democrats to pass liberal legislation. I think Warren and Sanders have just as much chance of getting little done as Biden. And if anything, I think it'll end up with a worse outcome, because centerist Democrats would just point to liberals not being able to get anything done as more proof that the center-right is where the Democratic party should stay.

    They would at least try. Biden has not shown any indication he understands even the basic shape of the problems at hand, let alone any desire to try and deal with them. He's an old man who just wants to take things back to the way they used to be by doing not much of anything. He's like the reification of the idea that if you just remove Trump from office, it'll all return to normal.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article232975022.html?

    CA passed a bill requiring 5 years of taxes to be released to be on the primary ballot. 4 Dem candidates don't meet the requirements, most notably Biden (he's released 3).

    Man in the MistsBucketmanEinzel
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    He's like the reification of the idea that if you just remove Trump from office, it'll all return to normal.

    Which is why DC and the punditocracy is pushing for him as much as they can. Accepting their part of the blame? Yeah, not happening.

    FencingsaxTicaldfjamBucketman
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Harris, on the other hand, I still can't figure out. In that she has, imo, yet to actually articulate any clear idea of what she wants to accomplish or what she believes in or why she's running beyond a general desire to be President. I can't find a consistent message from her beyond "I'm a fighter!"

    Thawmus
  • LadaiLadai Registered User regular
    edited July 30
    Biden is basically the candidate for people who think all or most of the problems in this country begin and end with Trump.

    That's probably a pretty enticing thought for a lot of people, though.

    Ladai on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Harris, on the other hand, I still can't figure out. In that she has, imo, yet to actually articulate any clear idea of what she wants to accomplish or what she believes in or why she's running beyond a general desire to be President. I can't find a consistent message from her beyond "I'm a fighter!"

    I think shes just the next generation of careerist

    Elendildispatch.oShortyBucketmanZonugalYamiB.Thawmus
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited July 30
    Ladai wrote: »
    Biden is basically the candidate for people who think all of the problems in this country begin and end with Trump.

    That's probably a pretty enticing thought for a lot of people, though.

    I think Biden's support is basically people know him, they like him cause Obama and they think he can win.

    The number of people who are Biden/Sanders as first/second (in either order) indicates to me that the first and third thing in that list are very powerful for primary voters right now.

    shryke on
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  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »
    yeah in biden we could maybe squeak out a win in 2020

    then we have 4 years of a candidate who doesn't even really accept most of our problems as being problems. we get a do nothing presidency that tries to play ball again and only does the most basic, half-assed attempts to fix things, even further undermined confidence in the dems next go round

    if trump wins in 2020, maybe we get somebody good in 2024. if biden wins, we're definitely fucked next term.

    we do not have time for this shit

    SCOTUS

    If Ginsburg is replaced by a Trump appointee, I don't really think it matters who or what we put up in 2024.

    At that point we can kiss the rest of VRA goodbye, along with our chances of ever winning big again.

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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    yeah in biden we could maybe squeak out a win in 2020

    then we have 4 years of a candidate who doesn't even really accept most of our problems as being problems. we get a do nothing presidency that tries to play ball again and only does the most basic, half-assed attempts to fix things, even further undermined confidence in the dems next go round

    if trump wins in 2020, maybe we get somebody good in 2024. if biden wins, we're definitely fucked next term.

    we do not have time for this shit

    SCOTUS

    If Ginsburg is replaced by a Trump appointee, I don't really think it matters who or what we put up in 2024.

    At that point we can kiss the rest of VRA goodbye, along with our chances of ever winning big again.
    we're not getting the court back in a biden administration

    we've already lost it

    YamiB.
  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    edited July 30
    Henroid wrote: »
    I hope Harris is asked why she's proposing a debt forgiveness for a grant that doesn't require paying back in the first place. I'm guessing she doesn't actually care about the issue RE: student debt. She wants to sound like it, at least.

    Yesterday I announced that, as president, I’ll establish a student loan debt forgiveness program for Pell Grant recipients who start a business that operates for three years in disadvantaged communities.
    I am excited to announce that paperwork to request this loan forgiveness will be available to all, in the

    tRwk3HD.png?1

    wandering on
    Man in the MistsBucketman
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    The ideas Biden has floated lean pretty hard in the Republicans' favor. It isn't just a matter of he's gonna sit there and let things remain as they are without actual improvement. He will actually regress some aspects of the country. Like, for example, he wants students to continue to live in poverty because of college tuition rates.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    Bhow
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »
    yeah in biden we could maybe squeak out a win in 2020

    then we have 4 years of a candidate who doesn't even really accept most of our problems as being problems. we get a do nothing presidency that tries to play ball again and only does the most basic, half-assed attempts to fix things, even further undermined confidence in the dems next go round

    if trump wins in 2020, maybe we get somebody good in 2024. if biden wins, we're definitely fucked next term.

    we do not have time for this shit

    I would have thought the last few years would disabuse people of accelerationism but apparently not.

    If Trump wins 2020 the best case scenario is that a Dem president doesn't get to do anything at all. Because they will likely be contending with a 7-2 SCOTUS and a federal court system that's further fucked. And that's *before* accounting for all the damage a Trump 2nd term does.

    Go for who you want in the primary. It's what it's there for. But if Biden wins focus on making sure he wins the general *and* has the most progressive Congress you can send in.

    kimewanderingNobeardDiplominatorFencingsaxSleepNo-QuarterKristmas KthulhuAbsoluteZeroMazzyxMild ConfusionjmcdonaldCalicaKamarSmrtnikOptyEinzelSorceMr RayThorn413Ardoljimb213Elldrenvalhalla130
  • LadaiLadai Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Ladai wrote: »
    Biden is basically the candidate for people who think all of the problems in this country begin and end with Trump.

    That's probably a pretty enticing thought for a lot of people, though.

    I think Biden's support is basically people know him, they like him cause Obama and they think he can win.

    I would agree that's also part of it, yeah.

    They think he has the best chance to end Trump's presidency, which for them is the most important thing rather than trying to win with someone more likely to address the country's systemic problems.

    4zyrt5.jpg
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    i thought the last few years would have disabused people of the belief in vote blue no matter who but here we are

    Styrofoam SammichYamiB.
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    I'm still mystified as to how Biden maintained his lead among African Americans after the last debate. Part of it is, I'm sure, that I'm white, but I thought I had a decent handle on this.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Richland, WARegistered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »
    i thought the last few years would have disabused people of the belief in vote blue no matter who but here we are

    If anything, it's reinforced it, because literally anyone who would be willing to be a member of the Republican party is a de facto racist and fuck voting for that.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »
    i thought the last few years would have disabused people of the belief in vote blue no matter who but here we are

    It's better than plan "Let's give the facist four more years"

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    I'm still mystified as to how Biden maintained his lead among African Americans after the last debate. Part of it is, I'm sure, that I'm white, but I thought I had a decent handle on this.

    Best theory I've seen: Black voters are most focused on the electability thing because they have the most to lose if Trump wins again. And Biden remains perceived as the most electable and pretty much every state poll agrees with that for right now. Like he leads Ohio by 10.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
    shrykeLadaiBigJoeMFencingsaxiTunesIsEvilCaptain InertiaNo-QuarterTicaldfjamThawmusElldren
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I have seen nothing in the past few years that suggests anything other then a democrat in office is better then a republican.

    Biden would be the last good of the current positions options I think, but still miles better then Trump.

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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    definitely advocating voting republican and not stop voting for shitty democrats that don't actually oppose the fascists

    YamiB.
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I have seen nothing in the past few years that suggests anything other then a democrat in office is better then a republican.

    Biden would be the last good of the current positions options I think, but still miles better then Trump.

    Yup. I hope he loses the primary -I think he's like my 7th choice? But wishing for him to lose the general is nuts.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    I'm still mystified as to how Biden maintained his lead among African Americans after the last debate. Part of it is, I'm sure, that I'm white, but I thought I had a decent handle on this.

    Best theory I've seen: Black voters are most focused on the electability thing because they have the most to lose if Trump wins again. And Biden remains perceived as the most electable and pretty much every state poll agrees with that for right now. Like he leads Ohio by 10.

    Hopefully he takes a hit in Iowa and his support scampers to other candidates ala Obama in 08.

    ElendilNobeard
  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Richland, WARegistered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »
    definitely advocating voting republican and not stop voting for shitty democrats that don't actually oppose the fascists

    What's the alternative? Third party voting is just a vote for Republicans because of how first past the post voting works. Same with not voting at all. And you're obviously not talking about primarying them because the whole "vote blue" concept refers to voting in the general election, not the primary, where everyone is blue. So that leaves a choice between a crappy Democrat and a Republican, which isn't a choice at all unless you're real into racism.

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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    for the record, yes i will vote for biden's dumb ass in 2020 if he gets the nom

    it's probably best to try to avoid nominating a candidate that will be a disaster even if they win

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »
    for the record, yes i will vote for biden's dumb ass in 2020 if he gets the nom

    it's probably best to try to avoid nominating a candidate that will be a disaster even if they win

    See this we can agree on.

    Re other posts I was going to dispute the Iowa chances of Biden losing but then I looked up 2008. I'd forgotten how badly Clinton got beaten there! Still don't expect that to happen again but we'll see?

  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »
    definitely advocating voting republican and not stop voting for shitty democrats that don't actually oppose the fascists

    What's the alternative? Third party voting is just a vote for Republicans because of how first past the post voting works. Same with not voting at all. And you're obviously not talking about primarying them because the whole "vote blue" concept refers to voting in the general election, not the primary, where everyone is blue. So that leaves a choice between a crappy Democrat and a Republican, which isn't a choice at all unless you're real into racism.
    like i said, i'll bite the bullet like always, but this threat of "me or the republican" has been going on for a long time and has demonstrably not achieved results

    Styrofoam SammichMan in the MistsMagellBloodsheedShortyYamiB.
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Was in a presentation from the head of the banking lobby (to bankers) and his message was “Warren literally hates banks, if banking regulation is your top priority vote Trump.”

    Also mentioned that he thinks if Bernie doesn’t get out early enough, he’ll split with Warren and Harris will get the nom and we bankers should also fear Harris from the mortgage settlements.

    Says Biden has no campaign at all and is just lazily riding along on name recognition and will crash out once the real Iowa/NH campaigning/polling matters.

    But also says he’s wrong about every prediction he makes in elections and he’s also an incredibly open partisan lobbyist and it’s hard having to listen to that presentation every year....

    MrMisterBucketmanEinzelTynnan
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Oh my god its page two and you guys are talking about 2024. These threads are not the starting pistol for a wacky everyone shit out their political crystal ball and get reading thread.

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  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    edited July 30
    Elendil wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    definitely advocating voting republican and not stop voting for shitty democrats that don't actually oppose the fascists

    What's the alternative? Third party voting is just a vote for Republicans because of how first past the post voting works. Same with not voting at all. And you're obviously not talking about primarying them because the whole "vote blue" concept refers to voting in the general election, not the primary, where everyone is blue. So that leaves a choice between a crappy Democrat and a Republican, which isn't a choice at all unless you're real into racism.
    like i said, i'll bite the bullet like always, but this threat of "me or the republican" has been going on for a long time and has demonstrably not achieved results

    With the Republicans being the Party of Trump, pushing actually-centrist R's away to the Democratic party, and D's being something like 2/3rds or 3/4ths of the US population already before the 2016 election, the D potential-voter-pool is way too spread across the far-left-to-right-of-center spectrum for any candidate to not be the "Well, it's them or Trump, so I guess..." candidate.

    I agree with you that Biden would be a disaster and given my druthers it would be Warren getting the nom but I recognize that even if she did there'd be a fair chunk of Democratic voters who would feel exactly the way about voting for her I would about voting for Biden if he gets it. I don't really know how that gets fixed in the US without the GOP dissolving and a new party forming such that there's an actually-left party and a center/center-right party to give people options without "far-the-fuck-off-in-right-field" being one.

    CptHamilton on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited July 30
    Itll be interesting to see after the election how many people Trump did actually push out

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    CptHamilton
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    On topic stuff: Warren announced a bunch of endorsements from members of Congress today. Mostly from Massachusetts (Katherine Clark, Joe Kennedy, Sen. Markey, Jim McGovern, and Lori Trahan) but a couple progressive stalwarts too: Raul Grijalva (Arizona) and Andy Levin (Michigan). Also Deb Haaland of New Mexico, one of the two women who became the first Native American women elected to Congress last year.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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