[WH40K] Big Preview Tomorrow!

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    I actually think most of the starter boxes are pretty good value - it's relatively cheap to start a Space Marine army because of this - but the individual boxes are definitely getting out of hand price-wise.

    Points values have also gotten so much cheaper over the course of 8th edition that building a new 2k point list from scratch feels fucking daunting.

    Unless it is Custodes which is like 15 units.

    03x29di.png
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Well I play the DoK army in AOs but I need to get 3 to 5 more witches and the same number of meusdi for them but that's at least $400
    Compare it to what I feel i need for my idoneth which is the start collecting box and maybe a caster

    I feel the Xmas deals are good army starters {even though some of them need a unit or two to be playable} But yes the various flavors of eldar and custodes are the vile comment someone said once of you pay the priemer price to play an advance skill army

  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    I actually think most of the starter boxes are pretty good value - it's relatively cheap to start a Space Marine army because of this - but the individual boxes are definitely getting out of hand price-wise.

    Points values have also gotten so much cheaper over the course of 8th edition that building a new 2k point list from scratch feels fucking daunting.

    I don’t want to tell people how to play their games but I feel that 2k is too many points.

    I’ve had a bunch of fun games at the 1250 mark. You don’t seem to get alpha striked so hard because there isn’t quite as much fire power. Granted I’m sure there are lists that would delete others in the first turn but I think you can have a good games at that point level (which in turns means you don’t have to spend so much collecting an army).

    Plus some stuff seems to perform better at lower point values.

    PSN Fleety2009
    BrainleechhonovereBurnageKhraul
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    So been watching the Art of War streams and they are running a really crazy Emperor's Children list and it is like 6-0.

    So I kind of made my own take on it. It is mostly board control with cultist and Abbadon. But you use Fabius "Fabulous" Bile to pump them because T4 cultist are actually pretty useful.
    +++ EC w/Abbadon w/NL (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [129 PL, 2,000pts] +++

    ++ Supreme Command Detachment (Chaos - Thousand Sons) ++

    + Configuration +

    Cults of the Legion: Cult of Magic
    . Categories: Configuration

    + HQ +

    Ahriman: Black Staff of Ahriman, Frag & Krak grenades, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Smite
    . Categories: Faction: Heretic Astartes, Faction: Thousand Sons, Faction: Tzeentch, Character, HQ, Infantry, Psyker, Sorcerer, Ahriman, Faction: Chaos

    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) ++

    + Configuration +

    Legion: Night Lords
    . Categories: Configuration

    + HQ +

    Chaos Lord with Jump Pack: Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Lightning Claw, Mark of Slaanesh
    . Categories: HQ, Faction: Chaos, Chaos Lord, Character, Fly, Infantry, Jump Pack, Faction: <Legion>, Faction: <Mark of Chaos>, Faction: Slaanesh

    Fabius Bile: Frag & Krak grenades, Rod of Torment, Xyclos Needler
    . Categories: HQ, Faction: Chaos, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Character

    + Troops +

    Chaos Cultists: No Chaos Mark
    . Categories: Troops, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Faction: Chaos, Faction: <Mark of Chaos>, Faction: <Legion>
    . 16x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 16x Autogun
    . Cultist Champion: Autogun

    Chaos Cultists: No Chaos Mark
    . Categories: Troops, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Faction: Chaos, Faction: <Mark of Chaos>, Faction: <Legion>
    . 20x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 20x Autogun
    . Cultist Champion: Autogun

    Chaos Space Marines: No Chaos Mark
    . Categories: Faction: Chaos, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Faction: <Legion>, Faction: <Mark of Chaos>, Troops, Chaos Space Marines
    . Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Chainaxe, Frag & Krak grenades
    . 4x Marine w/ Chainsword: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

    Chaos Space Marines: No Chaos Mark
    . Categories: Faction: Chaos, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Faction: <Legion>, Faction: <Mark of Chaos>, Troops, Chaos Space Marines
    . Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Chainaxe, Frag & Krak grenades
    . 4x Marine w/ Chainsword: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

    + Fast Attack +

    Warp Talons: Mark of Slaanesh
    . Categories: Fast Attack, Daemon, Faction: <Legion>, Faction: <Mark of Chaos>, Faction: Chaos, Fly, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Jump Pack, Faction: Slaanesh
    . 9x Warp Talon: 9x Lightning Claw (pair)
    . Warp Talon Champion: Lightning Claw (pair)

    + Flyer +

    Heldrake: Baleflamer, Heldrake claws, Mark of Slaanesh
    . Categories: Flyer, Daemon, Daemon Engine, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Vehicle, Faction: <Legion>, Faction: <Mark of Chaos>, Faction: Chaos, Fly, Faction: Slaanesh

    Heldrake: Baleflamer, Heldrake claws, Mark of Slaanesh
    . Categories: Flyer, Daemon, Daemon Engine, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Vehicle, Faction: <Legion>, Faction: <Mark of Chaos>, Faction: Chaos, Fly, Faction: Slaanesh

    ++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) ++

    + Configuration +

    Legion: *No Legion Trait*
    . Categories: Configuration

    + HQ +

    Abaddon the Despoiler: Drach'nyen, Talon of Horus
    . Categories: HQ, Faction: Khorne, Faction: Slaanesh, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Faction: Tzeentch, Faction: Nurgle, Faction: Black Legion, Chaos Lord, Character, Infantry, Terminator, Faction: Chaos

    Sorcerer with Jump Pack: Bolt pistol, Force sword, Frag & Krak grenades, Mark of Slaanesh, Smite
    . Categories: HQ, Faction: Chaos, Character, Fly, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Psyker, Faction: <Legion>, Faction: <Mark of Chaos>, Jump Pack, Sorcerer, Faction: Slaanesh

    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) ++

    + Configuration +

    Legion: Emperor's Children
    . Categories: Configuration

    + HQ +

    Chaos Lord with Jump Pack: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Mark of Slaanesh, Power fist
    . Categories: HQ, Faction: Chaos, Chaos Lord, Character, Fly, Infantry, Jump Pack, Faction: <Legion>, Faction: <Mark of Chaos>, Faction: Slaanesh

    Dark Apostle: Accursed crozius, Blissful Devotion, Bolt pistol, Dark Zealotry, Frag & Krak grenades, Illusory Supplication, Mark of Slaanesh
    . Categories: HQ, Faction: Chaos, Character, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Faction: <Legion>, Priest, Dark Apostle, Faction: Slaanesh

    + Troops +

    Chaos Cultists: Mark of Slaanesh
    . Categories: Troops, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Faction: Chaos, Faction: Slaanesh, Faction: <Legion>
    . 19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 19x Autogun
    . Cultist Champion: Autogun

    Noise Marines
    . Categories: Faction: Chaos, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Faction: Slaanesh, Faction: <Legion>, Faction: Emperor's Children, Troops
    . 2x Marine w/ Blastmaster: 2x Blastmaster, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades
    . 7x Marine w/ Sonic blaster: 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Frag & Krak grenades, 7x Sonic Blaster
    . Noise Champion: Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Sonic blaster

    Noise Marines
    . Categories: Faction: Chaos, Faction: Heretic Astartes, Infantry, Faction: Slaanesh, Faction: <Legion>, Faction: Emperor's Children, Troops
    . 2x Marine w/ Blastmaster: 2x Blastmaster, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades
    . 7x Marine w/ Sonic blaster: 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Frag & Krak grenades, 7x Sonic Blaster
    . Noise Champion: Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Sonic blaster

    Created with BattleScribe

    03x29di.png
    Khraul
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    Building the Sisters army has been more expensive than I would like so far. Getting the army box helped, but building a troop heavy army where your baseline 10 man squad costs $60 (plus an additional $60 for their transport) is starting to get out of hand.

    I recognize that Warhammer isn't a cheap hobby, but I think GW's new pricing structure is going to benefit recasters as much as it benefits GW.

    gRAhjXV.gif
  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    Redcoat-13 wrote: »
    Burnage wrote: »
    I actually think most of the starter boxes are pretty good value - it's relatively cheap to start a Space Marine army because of this - but the individual boxes are definitely getting out of hand price-wise.

    Points values have also gotten so much cheaper over the course of 8th edition that building a new 2k point list from scratch feels fucking daunting.

    I don’t want to tell people how to play their games but I feel that 2k is too many points.

    I’ve had a bunch of fun games at the 1250 mark. You don’t seem to get alpha striked so hard because there isn’t quite as much fire power. Granted I’m sure there are lists that would delete others in the first turn but I think you can have a good games at that point level (which in turns means you don’t have to spend so much collecting an army).

    Plus some stuff seems to perform better at lower point values.

    Yeah I definitely think the game feels a lot better at the 1000-1500 point marks. 2000 is just way too big, but it's pretty firmly engrained in the competitive mindset as the ideal and a lot of players get upset that they can't bring as much of their fun stuff at lower values.

  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    My buddies and I usually play 1250-1500

    Maybe I'm old, but I find 2k games tiring.

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
    Dr_Keenbean
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    8th Ed is the edition of big collections. Point costs for a lot of units are super low, so everyone has more models, but the game was made much bloodier, so everything dies a lot quicker. I feel like with 7th the games felt more "tactical", but in 8th everything just feels like a meatgrinder.

    I've been trying to find more "scenario" games that use smaller point armies. 2K is a blast because you can bring more toys, but alpha strike is a much bigger issue, and the length of the game can drag a lot.

    Honestly I wish I could get more 500 point combat patrol/zone mortalis style games in rather than full size ones. Killteam is a nice alternative, but the extra bookkeeping slows things down too.

    gRAhjXV.gif
  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Redcoat-13 wrote: »
    Burnage wrote: »
    I actually think most of the starter boxes are pretty good value - it's relatively cheap to start a Space Marine army because of this - but the individual boxes are definitely getting out of hand price-wise.

    Points values have also gotten so much cheaper over the course of 8th edition that building a new 2k point list from scratch feels fucking daunting.

    I don’t want to tell people how to play their games but I feel that 2k is too many points.

    I’ve had a bunch of fun games at the 1250 mark. You don’t seem to get alpha striked so hard because there isn’t quite as much fire power. Granted I’m sure there are lists that would delete others in the first turn but I think you can have a good games at that point level (which in turns means you don’t have to spend so much collecting an army).

    Plus some stuff seems to perform better at lower point values.

    Yeah I definitely think the game feels a lot better at the 1000-1500 point marks. 2000 is just way too big, but it's pretty firmly engrained in the competitive mindset as the ideal and a lot of players get upset that they can't bring as much of their fun stuff at lower values.

    I think there is also something to be said in playing smaller point games, in that you can't fit "everything" in an army. You are not going to be able to put everything a codex has to offer when you play 1250.

    2k is cool, because chances are, you can put your whole collection on the table top, and at the end of the day, we all want to play with our little plastic soldiers.

    I just like having lots of little forces; I have a little admech force which is going to get much bigger with the robocowboys on the horizon.

    PSN Fleety2009
    KhraulpardzhFroThulhu
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited April 8
    I still like 1750, I feel at that level you've got everything you need apart from that one other thing you wanted.
    It's a complete army, but you had to compromise somewhere, or take a risk.

    Tastyfish on
  • MonwynMonwyn Registered User regular
    That’s great that they showed their workers some love, but I’m trying to introduce new people to the hobby. Paying $35-60 for entry* into Kill Team is already a little on the expensive side for what most non-wargamers expect to pay for a “board game”. What’s a 1500 point army cost nowadays? Even Grey Knights would probably set you back $300. And we’re just talking about the plastic so far.

    Not to stir up shit, and generally speaking I’m part of the problem buying up all these exclusive models and such, but 1000% profit to shareholders? And they still can’t do a decent army building web app? I imagine the senior executives and design team diving into Scrooge McDuck piles of money, breaking occasionally to issue new projects whenever they need to break ground on another money-pool building. “Open another chamber” indeed.

    *note: entry does not include paint, brushes, glue, files, clippers, or any terrain. All products sold separately, terms and conditions apply.

    A lot of the reason their stock valuation exploded is because of factors that don't really have to do with revenue generated by selling models (although they are certainly also making way more money selling models than they used to.)

    For example, 2016 would have been roughly ten years after their Memphis facility opened, which means they likely retired an astonishing fuckton of debt. Company leadership changed. They closed a ton of stores that were losing money. They developed something resembling a modern community and marketing team. The Chapterhouse lawsuit wrapped up the year before, so they no longer had the specter of a legal settlement (and legal costs) hanging over their head. A move to newer technology means that their release schedule has gone from "quarterly, more or less" to "weekly" if you include all of their ranges. Tabletop gaming as a whole has experienced a resurgence, so investors no longer look at the company as solely a relic of the 80s that managed to avoid TSR's fate.

    Like, don't get me wrong, I have over two thousand points of AdMech, and a lot of my units are right around $1/point, which: fuck that. But "models are expensive" isn't close to the whole reason their stock is doing well.

    uH3IcEi.png
    italianranmaH3Knuckles
  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    Honestly GW's strongest asset is probably their IP, and there's a solid chance that that's still being undervalued. If the Eisenhorn TV show is a bizarre breakout success and becomes the next Witcher then the stock price will rocket again.

    MonwynMazzyxBrainleechitalianranmaH3KnucklesTryCatcher
  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    I’m not usually in the habit of making “eat the rich” posts; I’m feeling the stress of COVID compounding with work, and Warhammer is on my mind a lot right now. I agree that Warhammer Community is great and all, but I don’t feel like my satisfaction with, or the value of the product has increased at the same rate as its price. $40 for a plastic Space Marine Captain? Get out of here.

    While I’m bitching, I bought Crusade + Other Stories on the Black Library app because it’s only $0.99 this week. Honestly, I’m not sure it’s worth that much. It reads like a high school sophomore’s fanfiction.net series. I mean, I’m sure he’s really proud of it, and you gotta start somewhere right? The tag line reads: Great Fiction from the Dark Imperium.

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    They set those prices because people are willing to pay them, in other words: that's what the item is worth. If they thought they would make more money by setting lower prices and making more sales, they would do that instead.

    This is hardly some crazy fringe case capitalism run wild greed situation, if people didn't think the models were worth it, they wouldn't buy them. Ultimately while it's expensive for plastic war dollies, it's cheap compared to other hobbies adults engage in. Going to the movies and getting popcorn and a soda costs me $40, so while the frugal part of me cringes at the expensive characters, the rational part of me compares it to other things I do and I relax.

    Dr_Keenbean
  • pardzhpardzh Registered User regular
    I’m not usually in the habit of making “eat the rich” posts; I’m feeling the stress of COVID compounding with work, and Warhammer is on my mind a lot right now. I agree that Warhammer Community is great and all, but I don’t feel like my satisfaction with, or the value of the product has increased at the same rate as its price. $40 for a plastic Space Marine Captain? Get out of here.

    While I’m bitching, I bought Crusade + Other Stories on the Black Library app because it’s only $0.99 this week. Honestly, I’m not sure it’s worth that much. It reads like a high school sophomore’s fanfiction.net series. I mean, I’m sure he’s really proud of it, and you gotta start somewhere right? The tag line reads: Great Fiction from the Dark Imperium.

    I basically only ever read Dan Abnett or Aaron Dembski-Bowden novels. With a few exceptions, the rest of the Black Library authors are big doodoo.

    gt: Bobby2Socks | steam: Billy Boot-Snatcher

    You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    pardzh wrote: »
    I’m not usually in the habit of making “eat the rich” posts; I’m feeling the stress of COVID compounding with work, and Warhammer is on my mind a lot right now. I agree that Warhammer Community is great and all, but I don’t feel like my satisfaction with, or the value of the product has increased at the same rate as its price. $40 for a plastic Space Marine Captain? Get out of here.

    While I’m bitching, I bought Crusade + Other Stories on the Black Library app because it’s only $0.99 this week. Honestly, I’m not sure it’s worth that much. It reads like a high school sophomore’s fanfiction.net series. I mean, I’m sure he’s really proud of it, and you gotta start somewhere right? The tag line reads: Great Fiction from the Dark Imperium.

    I basically only ever read Dan Abnett or Aaron Dembski-Bowden novels. With a few exceptions, the rest of the Black Library authors are big doodoo.

    You should give Sandy Mitchell a chance.

    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
    camo_sig2-400.png
    see317Asher
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    The Ciaphas Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!) books are ok.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
    AuralynxTryCatcherFroThulhu
  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited April 9
    The Ciaphas Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!) books are ok.

    I loved the first 6. I'll be honest that while I still liked books 7-9, I don't think they were as good as the earlier ones. I still haven't read 10 or any of the other ancillary material (besides the 3 short stories included with the collected edition of 1-3).

    H3Knuckles on
    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
    camo_sig2-400.png
    Asher
  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    pardzh wrote: »
    I’m not usually in the habit of making “eat the rich” posts; I’m feeling the stress of COVID compounding with work, and Warhammer is on my mind a lot right now. I agree that Warhammer Community is great and all, but I don’t feel like my satisfaction with, or the value of the product has increased at the same rate as its price. $40 for a plastic Space Marine Captain? Get out of here.

    While I’m bitching, I bought Crusade + Other Stories on the Black Library app because it’s only $0.99 this week. Honestly, I’m not sure it’s worth that much. It reads like a high school sophomore’s fanfiction.net series. I mean, I’m sure he’s really proud of it, and you gotta start somewhere right? The tag line reads: Great Fiction from the Dark Imperium.

    I basically only ever read Dan Abnett or Aaron Dembski-Bowden novels. With a few exceptions, the rest of the Black Library authors are big doodoo.

    Chris Wraight is fantastic and rapidly becoming one of my favorite 40k authors.

    The Lords of Silence audiobook is absolutely stellar. It shows what you can do with "villains" if you actually flesh them out past the typical flat 40k chaos marines.

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
  • NechriahNechriah Registered User regular
    Rules question: I’ve been struggling to get my head around all the extra stuff that Space Marines get (doctrines, chapter tactics and all that stuff) if they remain ‘pure’ - that is, all marines from the same chapter/subfaction; and what they lose if they don’t. Like I understand that I could make an army with, say, a Space Marines detachment and an Adeptus Mechanicus detachment, but I’m not clear what abilities I lose by doing so?

  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    Marine rules are fucking complicated at the moment.
    • If you have a Marine detachment in an otherwise mixed Imperium army, they have the Angels of Death rules (And They Shall Know No Fear, Bolter Discipline, Shock Assault)
    • If that Marine detachment consists of Marines from a single Chapter, that detachment gains Chapter Traits (e.g., Codex Discipline for Ultramarines)
    • If your army consists of nothing but Marine detachments, they also gain Combat Doctrines
    • If your army consists entirely of detachments from a single Chapter, they also get a Chapter specific Combat Doctrine bonus (e.g., Scions of Guilliman for Ultramarines)

    So if you mix Marines and Ad Mech, you'll normally lose Combat Doctrines but nothing else.

    H3KnucklesNechriahKhraultzeentchling
  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    That's actually the best phrased rules Synopsys I've read for combat doctrines.

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    DW preview is up

    Basically just getting the new marine rules like doctrines and the intercessors strats. But for DW they are good upgrades. A DW stalker bolt rifle intercessor squad can target a character with AP -3 D2 sniper weapons that wound on a 2+, rerolling 1s to wound and you can reroll all hits if you have a watchmaster near by turn 1.

    03x29di.png
    Khraul
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Looks like they still don't get access to the newer Phobos Marines. Reivers only.

  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    It'd be interesting to give DW a strat that allows them to pick a Chapter Doctrine for a turn, even at a larger CP cost. Just to represent the fact that they're made up of members from all the chapters.

    From what I saw they won't be getting their own Chapter doctrine?

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
  • McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    No mention of any of the new marine units is kinda rough. I was really hoping for impulsors, warsuits, and eliminators. Everything else seems pretty standard whitedwarf fare (no new psy powers, prayers, or traits/relics), which is what I was expecting. Most of the marine strats are even more effective in deathwatch units. Deep striking in auto-hitting poison-spewing super auto-bolt rifles is crazy good.

    Also they printed the unfaqed dreadnought strat again?

    website_header.jpg
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    McGibs wrote: »
    No mention of any of the new marine units is kinda rough. I was really hoping for impulsors, warsuits, and eliminators. Everything else seems pretty standard whitedwarf fare (no new psy powers, prayers, or traits/relics), which is what I was expecting. Most of the marine strats are even more effective in deathwatch units. Deep striking in auto-hitting poison-spewing super auto-bolt rifles is crazy good.

    Also they printed the unfaqed dreadnought strat again?

    Yeah.

    I mean the old school DW drop of stormshields+stormbolters are just even more vicious screen clearers now. A 10 man squad can put out 40 2+ poison ap -1 shots. And then have a 3++ storm shield save to fall back on.

    03x29di.png
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    I've seen it pointed out that Deathwatch don't have techmarines, or a way of repairing Dreads - so who knows?

  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    I've seen it pointed out that Deathwatch don't have techmarines, or a way of repairing Dreads - so who knows?

    In the deathwatch rpg they have them so I feel it's they were left back at the base

  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    Is Blackstone Fortress a good game mechanically and as a long term campaign? They seem to be shovelling vast amounts of support to it as a system in a way they utterly failed to the AoS Quest games, and that tempts me strongly to indulge.

    MhCw7nZ.gif
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited April 11
    Is Blackstone Fortress a good game mechanically and as a long term campaign? They seem to be shovelling vast amounts of support to it as a system in a way they utterly failed to the AoS Quest games, and that tempts me strongly to indulge.

    The base set is OK, but as a campaign we found it a little short - by the first of the big chambers we had most of the characters inspired and with a few bits of archeotech. Though perhaps we were a little conservative and didn't push hard enough? I think taking on the first Chamber might have been our third or fourth game (I think third, and then we cut our fourth expedition short as we had enough data to go for the third mission and we'd started the game a bit late in the day anyway). However the difficulty should start ramping up as more of the enemies make it into the bad guy deck, so perhaps we've been a bit quick to judge. We've also not given the Abominable intellect cards a go.

    Definitely keen to try Escalation's Choose your own adventure version, and think the set time is going to make things a lot tenser and put a bit more pressure on to push your luck which the base game doesn't have.

    Tastyfish on
    Brainleech
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Well I agree but at times the base set+ the ambull will curb stomp you

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Re: Points. I like 1750 games, less than that I don't like as much. I play a pretty big boi heavy Space Marine list and I like bringing out my big toys. I have lists setup for basically every point level because playing > not playing...but given a choice I'll do 1750 or 2000 so I can bring out the "real" version of my list.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Re: Points. I like 1750 games, less than that I don't like as much. I play a pretty big boi heavy Space Marine list and I like bringing out my big toys. I have lists setup for basically every point level because playing > not playing...but given a choice I'll do 1750 or 2000 so I can bring out the "real" version of my list.

    I prefer this as well. I play CSM and lets me bring some really fun lists even though I wouldn't always say they are competitive. Its fun bringing out a lot of daemon engines and such.

    But I also play or played a lot of ITC/NoVA missions with folks and those games are tourney practice so 2k it is.

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    GnomeTank
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited April 11
    Yeah. To give people an idea, my main list has it's core around a castle of Roboute Guilliman with two Repulsor Executioners and a six man Aggressor squad. That's 1200 points of models basically. When I have to cut down to <= 1500 points, the basic core of my list has to be completely re-arranged.

    Coincidentally I'm in the process of painting up my Primarnias Calgar specifically for these situations. So I can take mini-Guilliman when I have to cut points for games.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    I mean, I think having to rearrange a list because you don't have the space to squeeze in power combos is exactly why lower point value games get a bit more interesting.

    The core skeleton of my competitive 2k list is 9 Talos and a Vexator Haemonculus, but that alone is 1000 points so if I take it in a smaller game I need to sacrifice something meaningful like objective control to fit it in.

    H3KnuckleshonovereLeztaAsher
  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    The real issue with smaller point games is that skew lists become vastly more impactful.

    The prementioned talos list might cost 1k points, but in a 1k game chances are it’s totally untouchable by most opponents.

  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Yea guys, it's not the power combos that get cut in a lower point game, it's everything else. I've done a few "slow grow" escalation leagues now and the 500-1000 point months always have a few jokers with Daemon Princes or whatever and no troops.

    Norgoth
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    I played the "Squad of Infiltrators vs a Venomcrawler" mission from Shadowspear and it was a lot of fun, even if I (the Marine player) got slaughtered almost immediately. We then reset and swapped the Infiltrators for Terminators and the Venomcrawler for a Decimator and then the game went the other way. The "group of smaller/weaker models vs a single beefy model" mission type can be pretty fun.

    Bringing big models or flyers to regular 500 point games is a scumbag move though.

    gRAhjXV.gif
    BrainleechH3Knuckles
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Army selection not really scaling to game size is another 40k problem.
    Fantasy and AoS deal with that better I think.

    Khraul
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