[Magic The Gathering Arena] Fires of Treachery banned!

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  • milskimilski UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ Registered User regular
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    yeah. I think the big surprise is their comment about the other formats being things they're just keeping an eye on for now in the face of the modern 87% companion meta

    They even acknowledged they might change the companion rule, which is kind of admitting it's a failure as created.

    The other interesting thing about that is how easy it would be. Nothing on the cards says how the mechanic works, just what the condition is to have them and the fact that you can cast it once per game.

    While obviously they think changing the companion rule is within the realm of possibility, I don't like tying the argument to "the rules aren't on the card". Most rules aren't spelled out on the cards, that doesn't make it "easy" to change them. Basically no cards refer to the stack, but that wouldn't make it "easy" to put a three-objects-on-the-stack limit.

    It's relatively easier to change Companion because there aren't that many cards with it, not because of whether or not the entire rules text of companion is printed on the card.

    While fair this wouldn't be unprecedented. Even ignoring sweeping rules updates like 6th edition and M10, isolated mechanics have been tweaked like this in the past. Phasing and the Legend/Planeswalker rule are the two that come to mind immediately, and have actually done so a couple of times in their respective lifetimes.

    Not a month after they came out, mind.

    I agree, it's not unprecedented. I think changing the companion rules is decently likely to happen, if nothing else to make the playerbase happy even if the meta shakes out less companion-heavy than expected. I just specifically don't like the argument of "it's not on the card, therefore they can change it easily", since things don't have to be written out on the card to be very difficult to change. (And, technically, they've done more *on-card* errata recently with Ajani's Pridemate, T5feri, and Hostage Taker, but that's not really relevant)

    You can't write me off like that! You're just a voice, pal! You don't know a DAMN THING ABOUT RACING!!
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    What could they change about Companion to make it more balanced? Having to bin a card from your opening hand?

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • milskimilski UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ Registered User regular
    What could they change about Companion to make it more balanced? Having to bin a card from your opening hand?

    The suggestion I've seen is draw 6. They absolutely wouldn't let companion give a free discard, that would be broken.

    You can't write me off like that! You're just a voice, pal! You don't know a DAMN THING ABOUT RACING!!
    VyolynceElldrenStyrofoam Sammich
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    What could they change about Companion to make it more balanced? Having to bin a card from your opening hand?

    The suggestion I've seen is draw 6. They absolutely wouldn't let companion give a free discard, that would be broken.

    I was thinking draw 7 put 1 on the bottom, but just draw one less is probably better.

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    I should just mainboard Soul-Guide Lantern at this point.

    I happened across this guy's anti meta deck over the weekend and really wanna build it and run it as a main line deck. Basically it's a mono green "ramp to Karn" deck that cherry picks artifacts and enchantments to shut down all the most popular shit.

    DanHibikijakobagger
  • Who-PsydWho-Psyd Registered User regular
    Well got to Diamond in Standard, last 4 matches were all Versus some variation on Lurrus because of course they were.

    Though one was really odd where they spend the whole match cycling and never put a Creature down.

  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Who-Psyd wrote: »
    Well got to Diamond in Standard, last 4 matches were all Versus some variation on Lurrus because of course they were.

    Though one was really odd where they spend the whole match cycling and never put a Creature down.

    They were looking for a Zenith Flare and never found it?

  • ArmorocArmoroc Registered User regular
    There's a deck circulating that just spams cycle cards until it finds a zenith flare and copies it for maximum burn. It's even more boring than actually playing your creatures for cycling value.

  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    i mean you definitely play some of those creatures. t1 fox or t2 rescuer/stinger is how you do the first 10-15 points of damage

    I Do Design | I PSN- Subtle_Ties | 3DS: 3840-5210-2008 (Subtle)
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    i mean you definitely play some of those creatures. t1 fox or t2 rescuer/stinger is how you do the first 10-15 points of damage

    That’s how the normal cycling deck works.

    This is a variant that doesn’t bother with playing creatures in order to run more off-color cycling

    fuck gendered marketing
  • KorrorKorror Registered User regular
    With standard it's current state, I've been playing a lot more limited and Ikoria limited is certainly interesting. Part of it is the human drafting but part of it is Ikora itself and how powerful and synergistic certain decks can be.

    Here's my last deck and while it only went 6-3, all of those 6 wins felt so unfair that my opponents barely had a chance.
    Deck
    3 Frost Lynx
    3 Of One Mind
    1 Ominous Seas
    1 Pouncing Shoreshark
    1 Shark Typhoon
    4 Startling Development
    1 Cathartic Reunion
    1 Drannith Stinger
    1 Fire Prophecy
    2 Forbidden Friendship
    1 Go for Blood
    2 Prickly Marmoset
    1 Reptilian Reflection
    3 Spelleater Wolverine
    1 Sprite Dragon
    1 Zagoth Triome
    7 Island
    6 Mountain

    The only times it lost was a game where all of my mountains were in the bottom 15 cards of my deck and to 2 very strong companion decks that had the perfect combat trick to survive as I swung for lethal and let them win on the crackback. What I think makes this deck interesting is that it's mostly commons, it runs only 1 rare and 3 uncommons in its colors. Cycling 1 and cheap spells is really good and even if your pay offs are only spell-eater wolverines and prickly marmosets, that's enough.

    Anyone have other contenters for tier 1 limited decks? I'd put R/U spells, R/W cycling, G/B graveyard and companions as the top tier decks and am curious if people have found other decks that can compete with those. Anyone have a hot draft deck they'd like to share?

    Battlenet ID: NullPointer
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited May 19
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    I should just mainboard Soul-Guide Lantern at this point.

    I happened across this guy's anti meta deck over the weekend and really wanna build it and run it as a main line deck. Basically it's a mono green "ramp to Karn" deck that cherry picks artifacts and enchantments to shut down all the most popular shit.

    Seems nice. I'll definitely give that a go.

    Did anyone do a mono white version?

    DanHibiki on
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    i mean you definitely play some of those creatures. t1 fox or t2 rescuer/stinger is how you do the first 10-15 points of damage

    That’s how the normal cycling deck works.

    This is a variant that doesn’t bother with playing creatures in order to run more off-color cycling

    oh interesting. I haven't run into the "all in zenith flare" deck then

    I Do Design | I PSN- Subtle_Ties | 3DS: 3840-5210-2008 (Subtle)
  • FiskebentFiskebent Registered User regular
    I played a fairly close game and was about to play Snapdax for the win, when my opponent countered with Voracious Greatshark. I don't know if he remembered that I had Hushbringer under a mutation on the board. I sure had forgotten about it... :)

    steam_sig.png
    VyolynceArmoroc
  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    Fiskebent wrote: »
    I played a fairly close game and was about to play Snapdax for the win, when my opponent countered with Voracious Greatshark. I don't know if he remembered that I had Hushbringer under a mutation on the board. I sure had forgotten about it... :)

    I think that's what happened to one of my opponents, except they played Gyruda into it 8-)

  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    I give you, Parrotrocity:

    2b510c6729d5600cd17b75930fe41d69.png

    It's ripping up plat 2, at least. As long as I am getting the first turn deathtoucher and then mutating onto them by turn 3 it quickly gets out of hand (Porcuparrot + Deathtouch is fun). If it manages to lock up the board and I can keep a Parcelbeast up it can go really long too, I have no idea what to do with the manabase, though:

    3981fccb27b0ac0ed73c6712f60a2fd2.png

    Any recommendations?

    Dark_Side
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    I give you, Parrotrocity:

    2b510c6729d5600cd17b75930fe41d69.png

    It's ripping up plat 2, at least. As long as I am getting the first turn deathtoucher and then mutating onto them by turn 3 it quickly gets out of hand (Porcuparrot + Deathtouch is fun). If it manages to lock up the board and I can keep a Parcelbeast up it can go really long too, I have no idea what to do with the manabase, though:

    3981fccb27b0ac0ed73c6712f60a2fd2.png

    Any recommendations?

    I'd probably cut black entirely

    Vampire of the Dark Moon is good but she's not go into a 4th color good

    fuck gendered marketing
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    I give you, Parrotrocity:

    2b510c6729d5600cd17b75930fe41d69.png

    It's ripping up plat 2, at least. As long as I am getting the first turn deathtoucher and then mutating onto them by turn 3 it quickly gets out of hand (Porcuparrot + Deathtouch is fun). If it manages to lock up the board and I can keep a Parcelbeast up it can go really long too, I have no idea what to do with the manabase, though:

    3981fccb27b0ac0ed73c6712f60a2fd2.png

    Any recommendations?

    I'd probably cut black entirely

    Vampire of the Dark Moon is good but she's not go into a 4th color good

    A little bit of lifelink goes a long way (especially if she ends up getting mutated onto by Gemrazer or Illuna), but there might be something in green that could fill that instead?

  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    I give you, Parrotrocity:

    2b510c6729d5600cd17b75930fe41d69.png

    It's ripping up plat 2, at least. As long as I am getting the first turn deathtoucher and then mutating onto them by turn 3 it quickly gets out of hand (Porcuparrot + Deathtouch is fun). If it manages to lock up the board and I can keep a Parcelbeast up it can go really long too, I have no idea what to do with the manabase, though:

    3981fccb27b0ac0ed73c6712f60a2fd2.png

    Any recommendations?

    I'd probably cut black entirely

    Vampire of the Dark Moon is good but she's not go into a 4th color good

    A little bit of lifelink goes a long way (especially if she ends up getting mutated onto by Gemrazer or Illuna), but there might be something in green that could fill that instead?

    lifelink is p much exclusively in white/black. and shadowspear

    if it's that important just add a shadowspear

    fuck gendered marketing
  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    Essence Symbiote can net you a fair amount of life and works as a Mutate target; Arbor Grazer ramps a bit and helps block, which is often as good as gaining life.

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    I give you, Parrotrocity:

    2b510c6729d5600cd17b75930fe41d69.png

    It's ripping up plat 2, at least. As long as I am getting the first turn deathtoucher and then mutating onto them by turn 3 it quickly gets out of hand (Porcuparrot + Deathtouch is fun). If it manages to lock up the board and I can keep a Parcelbeast up it can go really long too, I have no idea what to do with the manabase, though:

    3981fccb27b0ac0ed73c6712f60a2fd2.png

    Any recommendations?

    I'd probably cut black entirely

    Vampire of the Dark Moon is good but she's not go into a 4th color good

    A little bit of lifelink goes a long way (especially if she ends up getting mutated onto by Gemrazer or Illuna), but there might be something in green that could fill that instead?

    Bond of Flourishing, helps tutor for lands or creatures and life gain.

  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Hm, gonna give it a shot with the grazers, and maybe 1 of shadowspear? Was underwhelmed with Essence Symbiote but that was an earlier version of the deck.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    4gb4ynq03gun.jpg
    This is a very stupid deck but very fun when everything lines up

    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
    VyolynceDark_Side
  • AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    I should just mainboard Soul-Guide Lantern at this point.

    I actually have been, in my Lurrus Abzan midrange deck. It performs very well. Unfortunately, the deck loses very hard to Lukka Agent combo, if they have a Teferi in play (always, it seems)

    n57PM0C.jpg
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I just concede if I see lurrus because losing to that cycling bullshit is the most frustrating fucking thing.

    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
    Elbasunu
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I tweaked the deck quite a bit and I'm loving it.

    Ping ping ping life gain life gain ping ping ping

    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • bobAkirafettbobAkirafett Registered User regular
    I've got a B/G mutate deck that makes opponents sac everything. If anyone can see room for improvement I'll take it. Mirror shields for deathtouch counters and extra hexproof. Just need to ramp into 4/5 mana to make the sacs happen. Not sure what to put in the zagoth mamba slot, and have murder in case I can't ramp up/get my lands. Not sure if I should add dual/tap lands, as I usually need what ever I can get when I can.

    3NFiqou.png?1

    akirasig.jpg
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    edited May 20
    Did you give any thought to Insatiable Hemophage? A little bit of reach to close out games comes in handy and 2B is a cheap mutate cost (plus it's a 3/3 deathrouch so it's a solid first upgrade to your base critters). You can also run a Boneyard Lurker or two if you want recursion although I'm not sure where it'd go.

    Vyolynce on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Swap out murder for the Knight that can kill PWalkers and Creatures

    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
    DanHibikiAntoshkaMugsleyElldren
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Swap out murder for the Knight that can kill PWalkers and Creatures

    Plus it has Lifelink!

    Vyolynce
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    Swap out murder for the Knight that can kill PWalkers and Creatures

    Plus it has Lifelink!

    And is a non-Human.

    Munkus BeaverDanHibikiElldren
  • FiskebentFiskebent Registered User regular
    Porcuparrot on a 1/1 death toucher is sooo good

    steam_sig.png
    21stCenturyWinky
  • milskimilski UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ Registered User regular
    Get rid of the mirror shields and you can run Umori.

    You can't write me off like that! You're just a voice, pal! You don't know a DAMN THING ABOUT RACING!!
    VyolynceElldren
  • bobAkirafettbobAkirafett Registered User regular
    edited May 21
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    Did you give any thought to Insatiable Hemophage? A little bit of reach to close out games comes in handy and 2B is a cheap mutate cost (plus it's a 3/3 deathrouch so it's a solid first upgrade to your base critters). You can also run a Boneyard Lurker or two if you want recursion although I'm not sure where it'd go.

    I had Hemophage in there originally when it was a more scattered deck, removed it to focus more on the sacs and mutate targets I think. Don't think I've had too much of a need to get creatures back, if i can get the hexproof on them, which is why I added the mirror shields.
    Swap out murder for the Knight that can kill PWalkers and Creatures

    I took out the murderous riders I had, because I only had 2, and went for what was cheaper in paper in case I wanted to build/buy the physical deck.
    milski wrote: »
    Get rid of the mirror shields and you can run Umori.

    I have the mirror shields so my vertical mutate stack doesn't die to one removal spell etc.


    I'll add back in the Murderous Riders, and think about Umori, but not sure it really helps me. The hexproof shields help a bunch. I might be able to replace the Mirror Shields with Barkhide Troll, or maybe just hope on the Paradise Druids. I'm mostly just not sure what to do with the 1 drop slot besides the egg.

    Also, thank you guys a bunch.

    bobAkirafett on
    akirasig.jpg
  • DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    Crystalline Giant maybe? Fits Umori, can get deathtouch. It can win games itself if you dont get the combo off.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Put the murderous riders in anyway, it'll be a while before paper is a thing again and unless you are playing in official, sanctioned stuff you can just use proxies.

    Twitch Channel
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    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
    Vyolynce
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    Also fwiw that card is nolonger expensive. I bought showcase ones when they came out not expecting there to be no paper magic within a few months

    I Do Design | I PSN- Subtle_Ties | 3DS: 3840-5210-2008 (Subtle)
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    Put the murderous riders in anyway, it'll be a while before paper is a thing again and unless you are playing in official, sanctioned stuff you can just use proxies.

    Yeah in my state "indoors entertainment facilities" (incl game stores) won't be open until the end of June at the earliest; that's Core 2021 preview season by my count.

  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    I think Ikoria down the road is going to be one of the more expensive sets for singles for a few cards. There are going to be WAAAAY less cards in the wild because people arent drafting at stores, and people wont invest in standard if they cant play it.

    3ds FC: 0645 - 7166 - 9801
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    Moo.
    unknown.png

    I think this is the biggest I've ever managed to get a board since my old Orochi Hatcheri+Coat of Arms deck back in the day.

    Steam ID: Right here.
    MugsleyDanHibikiShadowennexuscrawler
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